Face it you heathens... the Bible is VERIFIABLE HISTORY
- Thread starter NoleATL
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- Sep 13, 2002
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Mohammad was a warlord that married a 6 year old girl when he was 53.
That's a part of the reason I don't believe Mohammad was a prophet.
I don’t think you understand the Christian concept of Heaven. You seem to criticize that which you do not understand a lot.
There is a TON of stuff like this in the Bible, god kills Onan for pulling out during sex is another one of my favorites. Mass genocide where only virgin girls are spared is another. Wonder what god had in mind for them? The book reads like crazy stuff made up by ignorant folk who didn't know where the sun went at night. If it helps people to believe in a magic ghost I'm alright with it as long as it's kept out of schools and so on.
Thankfully, our ancestors saw the writing on the wall (pun intended) and knew to thwart Islam’s conquest. Otherwise you might be face down on your prayer rug right now prepping to hurt some infidels.
Funny, Europe didn’t learn its lesson and recently let thousands and thousands of fighting age Muslim men into their cities and today has……regrets.
since when did the age of a wife matter 1400 years ago. He also married a wealthy business woman.
He was a warlord no more than any pope during the crusades. He is joseph smith and he is every man that thought himself a prophet, a delusional narcissist.
Imagine what would be written about david koresh 2,000 years ago....
We don't really have much data to support this. We have traditions that popped up decades and centuries later. Most of the accounts are single source with no corroboration. Many of the deaths likely weren't true martyrs. In other words denying Jesus resurrection would not save your life. For example denying Jesus's divinity wouldn't have saved Christians in Rome from Nero. Nero needed scapegoats for the fire. James the brother of Jesus's execution is attested to by Josephus but also may have been political. It appears that he was killed specifically during a gap in Roman procurators by the high priest. This just seems targeted to me and I would doubt that he could save himself by renouncing his beliefs.
But even if I steelman your argument and accept the martyrdom accounts, there are many people who died similarly believing in Islam or Hinduism or cultish Christian sects. In other words one can be sincerely mistaken.
Most scholars like Bart Ehrman believed Jesus's followers literally believed they saw Him alive after the resurrection.
The Muslims or Hindus that died for their belief probably didn't die for something they didn't believe in. They thought it was true. I also think God could have been reaching them in a way they understood.
I'm not trying to convince people, though. Most Americans are atheists and won't be convinced...
You keep redefining the question to avoid giving an answer. So let's try it this way: An evangelical Christian has a conversion and becomes a practicing, devout, knowledgeable Muslim. That person leads an exemplary life of service and sacrifice. Does THAT individual have some convoluted path to Heaven in your theology?
I gave you the answer.
Have you ever had a student that contradicted every answer you gave? How did you react to that?
I don't know what will happen to an evangelical Christian that becomes Muslim. It's not up to me.
There are numerous accounts:
Acts (Luke details Saul’s rampage against Christians)
Paul’s letters
Peter
Josephus
Tacitus
Tertullian
Timothy
Every disciple ended up being persecuted/martyred
And early church fathers’ writings which are numerous.
Then you have no "truth" to share. You have your own beliefs the same as everyone else and your beliefs have no more weight than those of any other person. And - as I've said multiple times now - that's fine as long as you don't claim moral superiority for those beliefs. FTR, if there is any reward after death - that person gets it. If the life they lived isn't enough...if the way they worship overrides the life they lived...*shrug*...well, that would be one f'ed up deity.
I hope to have the whole truth revealed to me after my death in a few decades.
The Bible says that we see "darkly on this side of the veil."
Of course, if atheists are right, they'll probably never know.. everything will just go black.
You think you can earn your way into Heaven? Christianity does not teach that.
You keep saying that...yet you never once explain what you're talking about. I don't think YOU understand the concept of heaven. See how simple that is.
Of course it does. Believe this, do that, and you're in. "...whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
How is that not "earned"? A mass murderer who has a sincere conversion the day before he dies, earns a ticket.
Bro. Seriously.
“Earn” is absolutely not the right word to use. That’s heresy.
Accepting and declaring Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior, true repentance & accepting God’s grace, and is how it is done.
There is not one single thing you can do to EARN God’s love. It is a gift! This is what makes our faith so unique and special.
Jesus also said we need to love our neighbors as ourselves if we want to be saved, so that's a type of earning, IMO.
Haha Brian, this is where we Protestants and Catholics will need to politely disagree.
Just off the top of my head I know Tacitus and Josehus were born after the supposed crucifixion. These accounts are mostly 2nd hand hearsay decades after the alleged events. The Peter story cracks me up. The Romans didn't ask how you wanted to be crucified. "Upside down, well that's against policy, but you got it Pete!"
Tacitus and Josephus lived during the time of the Disciples. Early church fathers had direct access to the Disciples and it is likely Josephus crossed paths with the same crowd.
And their jobs were historians, custodians of records. So their authority on history would still be in high esteem even though they lived after the events recorded.
And that’s fine but the god of the OT is ostensibly the same god in the NT. That entity still has to answer for genocide…unless that was “metaphorical”.I'm bigger on the New Testament.
I mean, this is just the common belief of Catholics, which is the largest denomination of the largest religion. It only appears lightly controversial because of how thoroughly it has been drummed out of Hollywood, Academic and elite circles.
I mean, it's just basically "haha that person believes in a religion." Which, cool I guess? If it's that funny to you? If he wasn't in Hollywood, making him a freak show, it's not remotely notable.
I believe the same, millions of otherwise totally normal people you would interact with every day that vote across both parties think the same thing.
The idea that the old Testament tells a truth while being allegorical in some details and not always being literal, and the new Testament being accurate, that's just a totally normal Catholic belief. It's not even like evangelicals that believe in a literal interpretation of creation or Jonah and the whale or whatever.
What a bizarre thing to point at and clutch pearls about - "Can you believe this guy believes in God??!?!?"
LOL, plenty of people do.
I mean, it's just basically "haha that person believes in a religion." Which, cool I guess? If it's that funny to you? If he wasn't in Hollywood, making him a freak show, it's not remotely notable.
I believe the same, millions of otherwise totally normal people you would interact with every day that vote across both parties think the same thing.
The idea that the old Testament tells a truth while being allegorical in some details and not always being literal, and the new Testament being accurate, that's just a totally normal Catholic belief. It's not even like evangelicals that believe in a literal interpretation of creation or Jonah and the whale or whatever.
What a bizarre thing to point at and clutch pearls about - "Can you believe this guy believes in God??!?!?"
LOL, plenty of people do.
Why does God need to answer to your authority? Who put you in charge?
Jesus is the God of the New Testament.
I recommend reading the Old Testament through "Jesus glasses."
Atheists make themselves into gods.
It's the basis for atheist philosophers like Nietszche and Sartre.
I think the funny part comes from using the word 'verifiable', which has a meaning. When most people think about religion and god, it's about faith and belief. So when you use one word, but should actually use a different word with a nearly opposite meaning. That can have a humorous effect.
Hope that helps.
My advice is to prey on the young. Get to them before they know better. Don't call it grooming or indoctrination either, those are no-go terms for your target audience. The magic and mysticism plays much better at that age too. Get to them before Harry Potter, LotR and GoT takes hold.
Don't be afraid to imitate either. MAGA has found millions of vulnerable people who will believe about anything. Go after them. If they'll swallow Qanon, they'll swallow anything JC did.
Use sports too. God is always favoring one team over another, allowing someone to make a catch and someone else to drop one. Use that for leverage.
People love coincidences too. Especially sports statistics and godly numbers. Know any good ones - Tebow? - that could be convincing to the reluctant believer/financial contributor.
Good luck and godspeed! Hopefully you'll have a successful Q1!
lol…he has to answer to his own authority. Thou shalt not kill…unless it’s the Amakelites. Those assholes you kill to the last innocent infant.
lol…so what happened to the OT god? Deposed? Killed in his sleep? Poisoned? Abdicated? It’s nonsense like this that makes thinking people look at you like you’re nuts.
And this is when thinking people look at you like you’re an idiot. Atheists make themselves gods? WTH does that even mean?
