Florida Duals

[UndercoverHawk]

Well next on the schedule is the trip to Florida. Day 1 shouldn’t be any issues. How does our lineup as currently constructed stack up against Mizzou/NC St?

Ybarra vs Surtin
Desanto vs Crawford
Eierman vs Hart
Murin vs Edmond
Young vs Jacques
Marinelli vs O’Toole
Brands vs Mocco
Wilson vs Kent
Warner vs Elam
Cass vs Elam

Ybarra vs Camacho
Desanto vs Orine
Eierman vs Jack
Murin vs Wilson
Young vs Scott
Marinelli vs Bullard
Brands vs Hidlay
Wilson vs Hidlay
Warner vs Trumble
Cass vs Wilson

I personally think Assad will get most matches for this, but could see Wilson get 1 match on Day 1. I also think Kemerer wrestles Day 2 if not Day 1 as well. Think Spencer has a chance of going but will wait and see.

 

[Hawkfan019]

I think Kemerer and Lee both wrestle. Not sure who the other 84lbers are, but maybe Assad wrestles the first dual and depending on how he does he wrestles the other duals or not.

 

[ginormous.headed.circus.midget]

Without Lee and Ken, they could conceivably lose 7 matches against Missouri. 125, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184 and 197

Iowa, even depleted as they are, matches up much better with BC State. Potentially losing four only matches (125, 149, 174 and 184)

 

[Descat1]

I don't see Missouri's 149 beating Murin and I bet we see Lee against Missouri.

 

[MVPFAN]

Without Lee and Ken, they could conceivably lose 7 matches against Missouri. 125, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184 and 197

Iowa, even depleted as they are, matches up much better with BC State. Potentially losing four only matches (125, 149, 174 and 184)

Having Kem and Lee would certainly help things a lot. Ybarra not winning vs either. Brands could beat Mocco who is inconsistent. Lost to UNI last weekend and then goes OT with Lewis. Brands underdog vs Hidlay. Murin underdog vs NC, can win vs Mizzou buy Edmonds is a big move guy. Young needs to be beating guys like Jaques. Right now we are dogs at 184 vs both. 165 a toss vs Mizzou. 197 a toss vs both with current status Warner.

 

[GantryZ]

I don't see Missouri's 149 beating Murin and I bet we see Lee against Missouri.

Edmond goes huge, if Murin doesn't get out of position his chances are good. Home run hitters always have a shot though, Max has to wrestle smart.

 

[MVPFAN]

I don't see Missouri's 149 beating Murin and I bet we see Lee against Missouri.

He is pretty good.

 

[MVPFAN]

Edmond goes huge, if Murin doesn't get out of position his chances are good. Home run hitters always have a shot though, Max has to wrestle smart.

Very similar to wrestling the Nebraska guy but Edmond more horsepower.

 

[GantryZ]

Without Lee and Ken, they could conceivably lose 7 matches against Missouri. 125, 149, 157, 165, 174, 184 and 197

Iowa, even depleted as they are, matches up much better with BC State. Potentially losing four only matches (125, 149, 174 and 184)

Trumble for NC State is really good, he's 10-0 this year and had an impressive 6-1 victory over NCAA finalist Bonnacorsi last year. He can beat Warner, especially a rusty one with little mat action this year.

 

[24 so far]

Sounds like it would be a good time for the Hawks to get their shit together doesn't it?

 

[wasdt21]

the bull is underdog to no one, i know you said toss but...

 

[IRONBIRD]

Having Kem and Lee would certainly help things a lot. Ybarra not winning vs either. Brands could beat Mocco who is inconsistent. Lost to UNI last weekend and then goes OT with Lewis. Brands underdog vs Hidlay. Murin underdog vs NC, can win vs Mizzou buy Edmonds is a big move guy. Young needs to be beating guys like Jaques. Right now we are dogs at 184 vs both. 165 a toss vs Mizzou. 197 a toss vs both with current status Warner.

Wait, need to check, is this the F*** st board??? "165 is a toss!?!?!?

the bull is underdog to no one, i know you said toss but...

YES!!! 1000%, I guess the BULL does not get the respect he deserves from some? I always love the "wanna bees" and their asinine comments when it comes to sports. In this case they like to point to the NCAAs. They want to disregard the seasons, and the B1Gs like they do not count. Yea I get the big prize is at the end, but anyone who is watching and paying attention knows the Bull had a few bad breaks.

Last year I believe he wins without cracking a rib! The year before, I will also say he would have won before the tournament got cancelled. Prior years many may recall? He was wearing that huge knee brace and dealing with a knee injury. The wanna bees do not understand how hard that is!

They do not get the extra grind of doing so through the end of the year events, especially with his style, which is 100% IOWA style. No one is making excuses, certainly not him. He has represented this team as well as anyone I can think of. Most have him ranked #1 and for good reason.

As wasdt21 said, "The Bull is underdog to NO ONE!!!!"

 

[js8793]

Wait, need to check, is this the F*** st board??? "165 is a toss!?!?!?

YES!!! 1000%, I guess the BULL does not get the respect he deserves from some? I always love the "wanna bees" and their asinine comments when it comes to sports. In this case they like to point to the NCAAs. They want to disregard the seasons, and the B1Gs like they do not count. Yea I get the big prize is at the end, but anyone who is watching and paying attention knows the Bull had a few bad breaks.

Last year I believe he wins without cracking a rib! The year before, I will also say he would have won before the tournament got cancelled. Prior years many may recall? He was wearing that huge knee brace and dealing with a knee injury. The wanna bees do not understand how hard that is!

They do not get the extra grind of doing so through the end of the year events, especially with his style, which is 100% IOWA style. No one is making excuses, certainly not him. He has represented this team as well as anyone I can think of. Most have him ranked #1 and for good reason.

As wasdt21 said, "The Bull is underdog to NO ONE!!!!"

1 v. 2 is almost always a toss up. so many sensitive people on this board. nobody said o'toole was a favorite. two great wrestlers who could both win the weight this year.

i thought marinelli looked really good against isu. avoiding scrambles will be key against o'toole. if he can get to his post double, i like his chances. if he has to finish from a single or high crotch, things get more difficult. i'd also like to see him test o'toole's physicality. polar opposite styles.

 

[js8793]

Having Kem and Lee would certainly help things a lot. Ybarra not winning vs either. Brands could beat Mocco who is inconsistent. Lost to UNI last weekend and then goes OT with Lewis. Brands underdog vs Hidlay. Murin underdog vs NC, can win vs Mizzou buy Edmonds is a big move guy. Young needs to be beating guys like Jaques. Right now we are dogs at 184 vs both. 165 a toss vs Mizzou. 197 a toss vs both with current status Warner.

i could see lee v. mizzou, but would be pretty surprised if they let him wrestle camacho on his first competition. if i was betting i don't think we see him until mid january.

i forgot hayden hidlay was up at 174 now. would be great to see kemerer for that. they had a lot of fun matches back in the day. seems unlikely, but i'm hopeful.

a ton of really good measuring stick matches in both duals.

 

[rcamp67]

1 v. 2 is almost always a toss up. so many sensitive people on this board. nobody said o'toole was a favorite. two great wrestlers who could both win the weight this year.

i thought marinelli looked really good against isu. avoiding scrambles will be key against o'toole. if he can get to his post double, i like his chances. if he has to finish from a single or high crotch, things get more difficult. i'd also like to see him test o'toole's physicality. polar opposite styles.

It really depends on what your definition of tossup is. Is it 55/45 or closer or is 70/30 a toss up? There are a few weights where there is some pretty clear separation from 1/2 led by 125 and HWT. I would put the Bull at about 65/35 which you could label as a toss up if you are rather liberal with the term. O’toole is very talented and certainly has a shot.

 

[js8793]

It really depends on what your definition of tossup is. Is it 55/45 or closer or is 70/30 a toss up? There are a few weights where there is some pretty clear separation from 1/2 led by 125 and HWT. I would put the Bull at about 65/35 which you could label as a toss up if you are rather liberal with the term. O’toole is very talented and certainly has a shot.

i have it a little closer than 65/35. I wouldn't consider that a tossup.

i could see both guys posing major match up issues for the other. o'toole could give bull major finishing issues. the few times he's been beaten, that's usually why, and that's o'toole's best skill. i could also see bull being way too physical for o'toole and simply overpowering him. i've seen o'toole get outmuscled before.

it's also early in the year. how close are either to these guys to their peak? there are a lot of variables to consider. i wouldn't overreact to any result unless it's a total beatdown.

 

[Grip220]

You guys worry to much, this is gonna be great. We are a full go!

 

[LIV4GOD]

i have it a little closer than 65/35. I wouldn't consider that a tossup.

The word "tossup" originates from tossing up a coin. That, of course, is a 50/50. I know there is a little flex on that concerning usage, but I don't think I would call 65/35 a tossup either.

 

[1stplacehawk]

O’Toole is the worst matchup in the entire weight for Marinelli. Kid is a stud and has a style that will give Alex fits.

 

[24 so far]

O’Toole is the worst matchup in the entire weight for Marinelli. Kid is a stud and has a style that will give Alex fits.

Maybe so, but Alex Marinelli is also a bad matchup for everybody in his weight class and always has been. He's faced every style under the sun and has 3 NCAA #1 seeds to show for it.

If I were O'Toole I'd wait for NCAA's to beat The Bull (given a choice of course) since he has a trend of losing hard fought matches to the eventual National Champion. Hell, might be best for Alex to lose a couple regular season matches and let somebody else have that #1 seed. Whatever it takes to get off the schneid.

 

[TNTwrestle]

You guys worry to much, this is gonna be great. We are a full go!

I WANT to believe that, but I've seen nothing to make me do so. I know at some point this season we'll have a mostly full team, and we'll look like Iowa Hawkeye wrestlers, but other than a few bright spots, it hasn't happened yet.

 

[hawkman37]

Show me one wrestler that has ever put up big points on the Bull, outside of Wicks cradle his freshman year at Nationals. Like them or not, Lewis, PK, Wick, Griffith, VJ, are all studs that can score lots of points and do on other studs.. yet Bull doesn't allow it. Thats just imo of course. And o'toole hasnt felt the bulls head and hands O&D before.

 

[blcoach80]

Maybe so, but Alex Marinelli is also a bad matchup for everybody in his weight class and always has been. He's faced every style under the sun and has 3 NCAA #1 seeds to show for it.

If I were O'Toole I'd wait for NCAA's to beat The Bull (given a choice of course) since he has a trend of losing hard fought matches to the eventual National Champion. Hell, might be best for Alex to lose a couple regular season matches and let somebody else have that #1 seed. Whatever it takes to get off the schneid.

The last 2 NCAA's that Alex was the 1 seed the 2 and 3 seeds had way easier routes to the finals than he did. Going into this year's NCAA's as the 2 or 3 seed wouldn't concern me in the least with the Bull. He will have tough matches from the quarters on no matter what at 165.

 

[Grip220]

Alex looks crisp and ready, the brace is gone he is moving extremely well and he looks fast.
In my eyes this is the best we have seen of him up to this point in a season.
I also think some maybe underestimating the win VS Kennedy, O’toole is very good and could be #2 at 165. I favor the Bull vs O’toole and would favor Kennedy also.

 

[MVPFAN]

165 is nails tough out to #9 so there is going to be tough sledding no matter what seed. I'd be ok with Wick and Griffith ending up on the other side of the bracket. Bull's matches vs O'Toole and Karchla will be big.

 

[Grip220]

I WANT to believe that, but I've seen nothing to make me do so. I know at some point this season we'll have a mostly full team, and we'll look like Iowa Hawkeye wrestlers, but other than a few bright spots, it hasn't happened yet.

I hear what you are saying, but I have been saying this from the beginning. This season is different, we have extremely seasoned guys who are at or near their lifetime peak (LEE , KEM) and the only thing they need is good hard training a few matches and the fine tuning to be ready for the show, Much like SR level guys do.

Bull is different, I believe they know he needs the grind still and wants to prove he still has room to get even better and maybe the fact that Kennedy is right with him is driving both of them to get better every day.

DeSanto just needs to grind, plain and simple. JE lives for the action and his skills are still evolving plus he does not have injury history.
Warner, well he has me Perplexed!

 

[24 so far]

The last 2 NCAA's that Alex was the 1 seed the 2 and 3 seeds had way easier routes to the finals than he did. Going into this year's NCAA's as the 2 or 3 seed wouldn't concern me in the least with the Bull. He will have tough matches from the quarters on no matter what at 165.

I'd have to watch the Griffith match again to be really confident in saying this, but IMO he was the better guy and was just unable to finish moves he initiated on both Lewis and Griffith, both guys with outstanding ability of their own (and of course the rib injury and when it occurred (?) didn't help).

He really has been just a hair away from being a multi-time National Champion, and his overall record and who he has beaten along the way is a true reflection of that, IMO.

He could very well be the most snakebit Hawkeye Wrestler of all-time, given the #1 seedings he earned, all the while in some pretty stout weight classes, and hasn't made it to the Finals. It's crazy really.

The guy is an All-time Hawkeye great as far as I'm concerned, regardless of what has happened at NCAA's prior or in the future. He's been an absolute beast and a pleasure to watch from my viewpoint.

 

[blcoach80]

100% this. If you watch his matches against Lewis and Griffith, neither of them did much of anything against him in either match and both played defense the whole match to keep it tied 1-1. They both countered his shot to get the win after he was close multiple times earlier in the match and couldn't finish. If the Bull gets any of those early take downs he wins both of those matches and probably makes the finals both years. He needs to turn those ifs and buts into results and he gets it done this year, mark my words! He really has been an amazing wrestler in every aspect other than the NCAA finishes.

 

[NothingMeaningful]

Show me one wrestler that has ever put up big points on the Bull, outside of Wicks cradle his freshman year at Nationals. Like them or not, Lewis, PK, Wick, Griffith, VJ, are all studs that can score lots of points and do on other studs.. yet Bull doesn't allow it. Thats just imo of course. And o'toole hasnt felt the bulls head and hands O&D before.

Vincenzo Joseph beat him 7-5. Ethan Smith lost 14-10 (I consider 10 points to be "big points"). Marsteller beat him 9-6. Some guy from Brown lost 8-6 in SV. Richie Lewis beat him 7-5, Logan Massa beat him 8-6. IMar beat him 14-5. Great to have an opinion, but you could have easily looked this up.

 

[mizzoufan90]

The Bull has never wrestled a guy like O'Toole. Maybe his strength and hand-fighting win out in the end, but comparing O'Toole with Wick, Joseph, or whoever else you want to throw out there isn't an apt comparison.

O'Toole is maybe the most advanced freshman we have seen in a very long time from a technical and mental standpoint. The only true freshman I can remember with a similar skillset is Kyle Snyder.

 

[js8793]

The Bull has never wrestled a guy like O'Toole. Maybe his strength and hand-fighting win out in the end, but comparing O'Toole with Wick, Joseph, or whoever else you want to throw out there isn't an apt comparison.

O'Toole is maybe the most advanced freshman we have seen in a very long time from a technical and mental standpoint. The only true freshman I can remember with a similar skillset is Kyle Snyder.

o'toole is nothing like kyle snyder from a skillset perspective. you're supposed to be a mizzoufan. there were so many other guys you could have used. come on man, know your guys.

Vincenzo Joseph beat him 7-5. Ethan Smith lost 14-10 (I consider 10 points to be "big points"). Marsteller beat him 9-6. Some guy from Brown lost 8-6 in SV. Richie Lewis beat him 7-5, Logan Massa beat him 8-6. IMar beat him 14-5. Great to have an opinion, but you could have easily looked this up.

mostly point taken, but 6 of those Smith points were intentional releases while marinelli was trying to major him. that doesn't fit with the others. he got a late takedown off a sloppy shot that made that score way closer than the match really was.

 

[mizzoufan90]

o'toole is nothing like kyle snyder from a skillset perspective. you're supposed to be a mizzoufan. there were so many other guys you could have used. come on man, know your guys.

Skillset is not your narrowly defined way of how someone wrestles. I'm talking about the holistic skillset of an athlete. Mental, physical, technical, psychological, confidence, etc.

O'Toole and Snyder wrestle nothing like each other, but both had advanced mental and technical traits that made them highly unique wrestlers.

The mental side of wrestling is so important and constantly overlooked.

 

[Grip220]

The Bull has never wrestled a guy like O'Toole. Maybe his strength and hand-fighting win out in the end, but comparing O'Toole with Wick, Joseph, or whoever else you want to throw out there isn't an apt comparison.

O'Toole is maybe the most advanced freshman we have seen in a very long time from a technical and mental standpoint. The only true freshman I can remember with a similar skillset is Kyle Snyder.

SNYDER REALLY? That’s your comparison 🤣

 

[wasdt21]

iowa will be there waiting, mizzu will be lucky to make it that far

 

[mizzoufan90]

SNYDER REALLY? That’s your comparison 🤣

See post above.

If you want a strictly physical comparison, O'Toole is like Jason Nolf.

 

[Grip220]

See post above.

If you want a strictly physical comparison, O'Toole is like Jason Nolf.

Funny you said that because that’s a comparison I would not have laughed so hard at. I was not referring to a size comparison more a style/skill comparison, either way you are shooting really high.

 

[mizzoufan90]

Funny you said that because that’s a comparison I would not have laughed so hard at. I was not referring to a size comparison more a style/skill comparison, either way you are shooting really high.

Guess we will find out shortly if I am wrong or right.

 

[24 so far]

Vincenzo Joseph beat him 7-5. Ethan Smith lost 14-10 (I consider 10 points to be "big points"). Marsteller beat him 9-6. Some guy from Brown lost 8-6 in SV. Richie Lewis beat him 7-5, Logan Massa beat him 8-6. IMar beat him 14-5. Great to have an opinion, but you could have easily looked this up.

He was going to look it up, but he chided you into it instead. He knew he had a Cornell fan with the time to do it and is gracious enough to provide us with his presence and immense knowledge of the sport. Great plan by him.

Wrestling was introduced to the American mainland by Penn State circa 2011 or thereabouts, for those not in the loop.

 

[js8793]

Skillset is not your narrowly defined way of how someone wrestles. I'm talking about the holistic skillset of an athlete. Mental, physical, technical, psychological, confidence, etc.

O'Toole and Snyder wrestle nothing like each other, but both had advanced mental and technical traits that made them highly unique wrestlers.

The mental side of wrestling is so important and constantly overlooked.

i still don't understand how snyder is the comparison? from an approach to the sport, creativity, and knowledge of positions, guys like DT and Nolf are much better. snyder was a bull who lived in the weightroom, reached elite physical maturity as an 18 year old, and perfected the same 3-4 attacks and was powerful enough to keep the match out of positions he didn't like. o'toole is good everywhere, physically unimposing, long and lanky, sometimes looks like he makes stuff up and is constantly looking to pin (i can probably count on 1 hand the amount of times snyder tried to pin someone), etc...

 

[rcamp67]

The Bull has never wrestled a guy like O'Toole. Maybe his strength and hand-fighting win out in the end, but comparing O'Toole with Wick, Joseph, or whoever else you want to throw out there isn't an apt comparison.

O'Toole is maybe the most advanced freshman we have seen in a very long time from a technical and mental standpoint. The only true freshman I can remember with a similar skillset is Kyle Snyder.

The ONLY true freshman that advanced mentally and technically you can remember is Kyle Snyder? Have you ever heard of Spencer Lee?