I need a lesson in religion

[claykenny]

Joseph Smith was arrested 40 times for crimes like bank fraud and had 40 wives, some as young as 14 years old.

Pardon me if I don't find him credible.

And Jesus allegedly fathered children with Mary Magdalene. There is a decades long gap in Jesus’ life as recounted in the Bible. Why?

 

[HawkFan1298]

And Jesus allegedly fathered children with Mary Magdalene. There is a decades long gap in Jesus’ life as recounted in the Bible. Why?

That's quite an allegation thats not accepted by most scholars.

 

[claykenny]

That's quite an allegation thats not accepted by most scholars.

By most scholars…

What was Jesus doing for the 20 years of his life unaccounted for in the Bible?

 

[ConvenientParking]

By most scholars…

What was Jesus doing for the 20 years of his life unaccounted for in the Bible?

I think he was reading libertarian literature. He emerged from that period talking about how people were basically all like sheep and they were following bogus authorities.

 

[HawkFan1298]

By most scholars…

What was Jesus doing for the 20 years of his life unaccounted for in the Bible?

What happened during Jesus’ missing years? - The Bishop's Bulletin

Question: Why is there nothing in the Bible about Jesus’ life from when he was 12 to 30 years old? That’s 18 years! Answer: To answer this question and understand why none of the Gospel writers give us the details of most of Jesus’ life, we must first understand the genre of the Gospels, in

www.sfcatholic.org

 

[artradley]

Did you study the Bible at a university?

Jesus is God and everything in the Bible culminates to Him.

I don’t need to study it at university. I can read it and use my brain. If understanding requires more than that, it is clearly not the word of god because if he wanted us to know him through his words he would make it accessible. If it’s not accessible, it’s not the word of god.

It is silly nonsense.

 

[HawkFan1298]

I don’t need to study it at university. I can read it and use my brain. If understanding requires more than that, it is clearly not the word of god because if he wanted us to know him through his words he would make it accessible. If it’s not accessible, it’s not the word of god.

It is silly nonsense.

If you say so.

The Bible is undoubtedly the most influential book(s) of all time in Western civilization and details the life of the most influential person of all time.

Calling it "silly nonsense" is a very shallow, atheist way of describing it.

 

[Hawki97]

If you say so.

The Bible is undoubtedly the most influential book(s) of all time in Western civilization and details the life of the most influential person of all time.

Calling it "silly nonsense" is a very shallow, atheist way of describing it.

It's nothing more than an indictment of how easily we can be manipulated. Humans. All of us. We're a weak, weak species.

 

[the24fan]

By most scholars…

What was Jesus doing for the 20 years of his life unaccounted for in the Bible?

I'm sure if it was relevant to the Bible's message or important enough to consider God would have made sure it was included in His inspired word.
While the details of his remaining childhood are not recorded in the Bible, Luke 2:52 says Jesus went on progressing in wisdom and in physical growth and in favor with God and men....
So it's likely that Jesus conduct was in harmony with God's righteous standards up until he presented himself in baptism to God's will.

 

[the24fan]

I don’t need to study it at university. I can read it and use my brain. If understanding requires more than that, it is clearly not the word of god because if he wanted us to know him through his words he would make it accessible. If it’s not accessible, it’s not the word of god.

It is silly nonsense.

Bible truth is not hard to understand if it explained correctly. If the Bible is confusing, its because most of religion has done a poor job of helping their flocks understand it. Not to mention that most churches in Christianity fail to even use the Bible much anymore. Sermons have become a social soap box to promote political or social issues. It's no wonder many are leaving the churches. Religious leaders have failed to meet the needs of their congregations.
They have failed in Jesus' explicit words to "feed his sheep, and take care of his lambs"
True religion would unite people, not divide them. Most Churches in Christendom support earthy governments, support and bless warfare, and make light of the Bible's clear moral teachings. None of this is debatable

 

[the24fan]

And Jesus allegedly fathered children with Mary Magdalene. There is a decades long gap in Jesus’ life as recounted in the Bible. Why?

There is zero evidence to support such a claim.
Luke ends the second chapter of his book by saying Jesus continued maturing and gaining in wisdom, and in favor with God and men. As God's son he obviously respected and closely adhered to his fathers righteous standards, which would rule out any immoral relationship with any woman, let alone Mary Magdalene.

 

[artradley]

If you say so.

The Bible is undoubtedly the most influential book(s) of all time in Western civilization and details the life of the most influential person of all time.

Calling it "silly nonsense" is a very shallow, atheist way of describing it.

It is the equal of Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology. Any unbiased reading of it can come to no other sensible conclusion.

 

[HawkFan1298]

It is the equal of Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology. Any unbiased reading of it can come to no other sensible conclusion.

That's not true.

Atheists always claim that and it's not even remotely close to true. (I'm an ex-atheist and used to believe it, sadly.)

The Bible is like a library. It has law, poetry, history and more.

The Gospels are the history of Jesus written within the lifetime of the Apostles; they are NOT mythology.

BTW, the word "myth" is written 5 times in Greek (mythos) in the New Testament and each time it's rejected.

The Bible is a Library

www.somersworthfirstparish.org

 

[LuteHawk]

Josephus was a Jewish historian who wrote ANTIQUITIES in 90 A.D.
Here is a quote where he makes reference to Jesus Christ.

"At this time there was a wise man who was called JESUS. His conduct
was good and he was known to be virtuous. Many people from among
the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned
him to be crucified and to die. His disciples reported that he had
appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive.
Accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets
had recounted wonders."

 

[LuciousBDragon]

It is the equal of Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology. Any unbiased reading of it can come to no other sensible conclusion.

Sorry Art, but this statement ^^^ is pretty ignorant even by secularist standards. Maybe sit this thread out.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I don’t need to study it at university. I can read it and use my brain. If understanding requires more than that, it is clearly not the word of god because if he wanted us to know him through his words he would make it accessible. If it’s not accessible, it’s not the word of god.

It is silly nonsense.

Or, as I like to point out, if God really is all that, he knows exactly what it would take to convince folks like you and me to believe.

So why hasn't he? I can think of only 3 possible answers:

1. There is no God.

2. God exists, but doesn't give a damn whether we believe.

3. God really isn't all that.

In which case, why would any rational person be invested in this nonsense?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If you say so.

The Bible is undoubtedly the most influential book(s) of all time in Western civilization and details the life of the most influential person of all time.

Calling it "silly nonsense" is a very shallow, atheist way of describing it.

The bible can be very influential and Jesus can be very influential, without the religious dogma rising above the level of nonsense.

And let's be clear, the term "nonsense" is letting this dangerous, violent, corrupt con game off easy.

 

[LuteHawk]

Tacitus was a Roman historian who wrote ANNALS in 115 A.D.
Here is a quote with reference to Jesus Christ and the great
fire in Rome during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the
guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class of
people called Christians. CHRISTUS, from whom the name
had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty of death during
the reign of Roman Emperor Tiberius at the hands of one of our
procurators Pontius Pilate."

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Religious leaders have failed to meet the needs of their congregations.
They have failed in Jesus' explicit words to "feed his sheep, and take care of his lambs"

This part I agree with.

If religious leaders supported the basic values that Jesus supposedly taught, an argument could be made that maybe they aren't total frauds and con artists.

But if you suggest that good Christians should naturally support collective efforts to help the poor and sick and impoverished, most on the Christian Right will loudly object, if collective means through elected government.

And if you talk with evangelicals, most will short shrift to any duty to follow Jesus's teachings - pointing instead to the magical formula of accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior as all you really need to do.

What's worse, most of the values of the Christian Right seem to come from the Old Testament - and specifically those parts where bigotry and violence were preached and praised.

And while these "good Christians" don't want government to help the poor, sick, homeless, etc., they absolutely want government in the bedroom and schools and clinics - either brainwashing kids or punishing sinners.

As far as I can tell, the only thing America's Christian Right likes about Jesus is the parable of talents. Which I suspect they either don't understand, or just blithely misapply.

 

[HawkFan1298]

Or, as I like to point out, if God really is all that, he knows exactly what it would take to convince folks like you and me to believe.

So why hasn't he? I can think of only 3 possible answers:

1. There is no God.

2. God exists, but doesn't give a damn whether we believe.

3. God really isn't all that.

In which case, why would any rational person be invested in this nonsense?

Free Will.

Just ask Him if He's real. Be patient. Take 6 months.

Is anything more important?

 

[chalupa81]

It sounds like you have had something traumatic happen in your life that made you question the existence of God? Most people are not quite this bitter without some kind of reason. FYI its a serious question. Have you always felt that way?

This is a valid question for lots of people, including myself. Why did my mom die of cancer at 59? Why did my son get diagnosed with cancer at the age of 6? Why did this happen to them? Am I being punished for something?

 

[Warrior Poet31]

I can think of only 3 possible answers:

And that is why you fail.

 

[Hawki97]

That's not true.

Atheists always claim that and it's not even remotely close to true. (I'm an ex-atheist and used to believe it, sadly.)

The Bible is like a library. It has law, poetry, history and more.

The Gospels are the history of Jesus written within the lifetime of the Apostles; they are NOT mythology.

BTW, the word "myth" is written 5 times in Greek (mythos) in the New Testament and each time it's rejected.

The Bible is a Library

www.somersworthfirstparish.org

View embedded media

Faith is a fascinating thing. As flawed and dangerous as it is beautiful and uplifting. Good luck on your journey. Try to stay on the good side.

 

[the24fan]

This is a valid question for lots of people, including myself. Why did my mom die of cancer at 59? Why did my son get diagnosed with cancer at the age of 6? Why did this happen to them? Am I being punished for something?

The short answer is a resounding no.
Human sin and imperfection are the biggest reasons we suffer. God did not intend us to suffer as a human family. Our first parents left us with a defect when they rebelled against God's rulership. They passed on that sin and death to all their descendants including you and me.
Jesus gave his life to buy back sinful mankind and give faithful mankind the prospect of enjoying what Adam and Eve had before them: perfect everlasting life in a beautiful garden like Earth.
James 1:13 helps us appreciate that God is not the cause of our suffering.
John 3:16 of course states God loved the world so much that he sent his son die for us to have that chance at eternal life
Revelation 21:3,4 talks about the conditions that we will soon see here on the earth, oh and that includes the bibles hope that we will see our dead loved ones resurrected to life here on earth, fulfilling Jesus' words at John 5:28,29 and Pauls words at Acts 24:15

https://www.jw.org/finder?wtlocale=E&docid=2017126&srcid=share

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Tacitus was a Roman historian who wrote ANNALS in 115 A.D.
Here is a quote with reference to Jesus Christ and the great
fire in Rome during the reign of Roman Emperor Nero:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the
guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class of
people called Christians. CHRISTUS, from whom the name
had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty of death during
the reign of Roman Emperor Tiberius at the hands of one of our
procurators Pontius Pilate."

It's good when secular accounts parallel biblical accounts. They each reinforce the other's understanding of history.

But that in no way proves divinity or resurrection or miracles, etc. Doesn't even prove that other supposed historical accounts are true.

When I read a novel or watch a fictional TV show that accurately shows features of a city or a war or whatever, that doesn't mean that Perry Mason or Wonder Woman are real people.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

This is a valid question for lots of people, including myself. Why did my mom die of cancer at 59? Why did my son get diagnosed with cancer at the age of 6? Why did this happen to them? Am I being punished for something?

The short answer is a resounding no.
Human sin and imperfection are the biggest reasons we suffer. God did not intend us to suffer as a human family. Our first parents left us with a defect when they rebelled against God's rulership. They passed on that sin and death to all their descendants including you and me.

Jesus gave his life to buy back sinful mankind and give faithful mankind the prospect of enjoying what Adam and Eve had before them: perfect everlasting life in a beautiful garden like Earth.

Let me see if I have this right....

Adam and Eve tainted us all. So we were then deserving of punishment.

Jesus redeemed us all. So we are no longer tainted and deserving of punishment for anything other than our own offenses.

So . . . why, again, did @chalupa81's family members suffer and why is he being punished?

 

[the24fan]

This part I agree with.

If religious leaders supported the basic values that Jesus supposedly taught, an argument could be made that maybe they aren't total frauds and con artists.

But if you suggest that good Christians should naturally support collective efforts to help the poor and sick and impoverished, most on the Christian Right will loudly object, if collective means through elected government.

And if you talk with evangelicals, most will short shrift to any duty to follow Jesus's teachings - pointing instead to the magical formula of accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior as all you really need to do.

What's worse, most of the values of the Christian Right seem to come from the Old Testament - and specifically those parts where bigotry and violence were preached and praised.

And while these "good Christians" don't want government to help the poor, sick, homeless, etc., they absolutely want government in the bedroom and schools and clinics - either brainwashing kids or punishing sinners.

As far as I can tell, the only thing America's Christian Right likes about Jesus is the parable of talents. Which I suspect they either don't understand, or just blithely misapply.

1. Most of the religious leaders are con artists. It's a job to them. They do not care for their flocks at all, which should be to teach bible truth and faith in their Lord and Savior, instead promoting their own political views, or lining their wallets.

2. Jesus instructed his followers to be advocates of Gods Kingdom.(Matthew 28:19,20) That will be the permanent solution to all the issues you spoke of . He also instructed them to spread the good news of the Kingdom as he himself did while on earth. It was the main message of his ministry.

3. Jesus said whoever wanted to follow him had to pick up their torture stake and CONTINUALLY follow him. Once saved always saved is not supported in the bible. It takes constant effort.
The bible teaches that faith without works is dead.(James 2:26)
Matthew 16:24

4. There was warfare in the Old Testament. The nations subdued by the Israelites were gross practicers of things God condemned. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was a prime example of Gods judgements against those who practiced immoral things.
No true Christian would HATE anyone, however they would not support or condone practices that God has clearly stated is unacceptable to Him.(2 Peter 2:6)

5. True Christians again would not take up sides in political or social issues. They would stay neutral in the worlds affairs, its social issues and it's warfare. This stand is supported by Jesus words to his followers at John 17:14-16

6. Tithing is no longer biblical. Paul stated we are not peddlers of Gods word.(2 Corinthians 2:17) A person would give freely of their own volition. God loves a cheerful giver according to 2 Corinthians 9:7.
Jesus teaching about the poor widow also taught his disciples giving would come from the heart.
Sending collection plates around is WRONG as is sending people a bill in the mail because the church expects them to pay....NOT a bible teaching

 

[the24fan]

Let me see if I have this right....

Adam and Eve tainted us all. So we were then deserving of punishment.

Jesus redeemed us all. So we are no longer tainted and deserving of punishment for anything other than our own offenses.

So . . . why, again, did @chalupa81's family members suffer and why is he being punished?

Deserving no...however just as a family may pass a defect on to their children, Adam and Eve did the same to us.
We as their children suffer because of their rebellion, including watching ones we love get sick and die.
Christ did give his life to buy back what Adam lost. He paid the price to redeem faithful mankind and give them a chance to gain everlasting life, to enjoy life as it was meant to be in Gods original purpose for humans.
Very soon all the conditions that plague us as a human family will be permanently fixed under Gods Kingdom government, ruled by the perfect leader, Christ.

 

[like-woahh]

Deserving no...however just as a family may pass a defect on to their children, Adam and Eve did the same to us.
We as their children suffer because of their rebellion, including watching ones we love get sick and die.
Christ did give his life to buy back what Adam lost. He paid the price to redeem faithful mankind and give them a chance to gain everlasting life, to enjoy life as it was meant to be in Gods original purpose for humans.
Very soon all the conditions that plague us as a human family will be permanently fixed under Gods Kingdom government, ruled by the perfect leader, Christ.

Why do you post in bold. It's weird, dude.

 

[HawkRugged17]

Why do you post in bold. It's weird, dude.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

And that is why you fail.

And yet you seem to have no better answers.

 

[LuciousBDragon]

Deserving no...however just as a family may pass a defect on to their children, Adam and Eve did the same to us.
We as their children suffer because of their rebellion, including watching ones we love get sick and die.
Christ did give his life to buy back what Adam lost. He paid the price to redeem faithful mankind and give them a chance to gain everlasting life, to enjoy life as it was meant to be in Gods original purpose for humans.
Very soon all the conditions that plague us as a human family will be permanently fixed under Gods Kingdom government, ruled by the perfect leader, Christ.

I think it is important to document in this thread that JW theology has major, very consequential, differences from mainline Christian doctrine. JW’s represent < 1% of all worldwide Christians.

 

[HawkFan1298]

I think it is important to document in this thread that JW theology has major, very consequential, differences from mainline Christian doctrine. JW’s represent < 1% of all worldwide Christians.

Yep.

Jehovas Witnesses, like Mormons, are not Christian because they reject the Trinity and Nicene Creed.

(That doesn't mean they're bad or all their doctrine is bad, though.)

 

[Warrior Poet31]

And yet you seem to have no better answers.

Start a private conversation and we can talk.

 

[artradley]

God is all an all knowing, all powerful entity that controls the entire universe. Yet, God is greatly concerned with the actions of a bunch of people on planet Earth.

And he is particularly concerned about things we do while naked.

 

[the24fan]

I think it is important to document in this thread that JW theology has major, very consequential, differences from mainline Christian doctrine. JW’s represent < 1% of all worldwide Christians.

Very true . But again Jesus said the road to life would be cramped and narrow .
Matthew 7:13
“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.”

All one has to do is examine the evidence . Jesus said you would recognize true religion from its fruitage.
Jehovahs witnesses are the only religion that advocates Gods kingdom as the only solution to solve mankind’s problems . We refuse to support earthly governments, United around the world in worship despite national borders and race. And do our best to live up to the high moral standards set out in Gods word. I am in no way claiming perfection , but I do my best each day to act like I support that theocratic government. I’m simply doing my best to be true to my Lord and master by obeying his command to advocate the Kingdom of God.

 

[the24fan]

Nicely played man ….exactly what I would have posted

 

[the24fan]

Yep.

Jehovas Witnesses, like Mormons, are not Christian because they reject the Trinity and Nicene Creed.

(That doesn't mean they're bad or all their doctrine is bad, though.)

We are very much Christian .
We believe Jesus was the only begotten son of God. And the Trinity doctrine was not an early accepted teaching . It came into existence 400 years after the death of Jesus .
The bishops at Nicea were basically forced to adopt this pagan teaching because of Constantine. He supposedly converted to Christianity on his death bed .

 

[ConvenientParking]

We are very much Christian .
We believe Jesus was the only begotten son of God. And the Trinity doctrine was not an early accepted teaching . It came into existence 400 years after the death of Jesus .
The bishops at Nicea were basically forced to adopt this pagan teaching because of Constantine. He supposedly converted to Christianity on his death bed .

Constantine did not convert on his deathbed. He converted while he was in his early reign as emperor of Rome and made it the Roman religion. Constantine is why Christianity is so dominant in the world.

 

[HawkFan1298]

We are very much Christian .
We believe Jesus was the only begotten son of God. And the Trinity doctrine was not an early accepted teaching . It came into existence 400 years after the death of Jesus .
The bishops at Nicea were basically forced to adopt this pagan teaching because of Constantine. He supposedly converted to Christianity on his death bed .

The Trinity is accepted now...so is the Nicene Creed.