Importantly, Kris Murray didn’t foul out

KcTo

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Fran wisely benched Kris Murray in 1st half and limited his playing time to 4 minutes.

Kris responded well in 2H by recording 6 rebounds in only 11 2H minutes.
Kris was playing defense (2 steals), protecting rim (2 blocks), recording 2nd chance opportunities (3 O Boards) along with 3 D boards.

fortunately, Fran had the wisdom to limit his exposure to this game by limiting him to 4 1H minutes and only 11 2H minutes.

again, Fran voluntarily limits the playing time, this time of his 2nd best player Kris Murray, agin fearing non existent foul trouble (3 for the game).
Kris is the 2nd best player on this team, and limiting him to 15m = a coaching blunder.

this coaching blunder may not have changed the outcome of the game, but it certainly added to the defensive rebounding issue in 1h.
 

sm_hawkeye

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it is a pretty crazy decision. The only way you could defend it is he is trying to teach the players to play good defense without getting in foul trouble. So hopefully players are incentivized to take care here. But issue with that take is it hasn’t been a common theme with this player. Fran would pry do the same thing in tournament play. Which makes no sense.
 

KcTo

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Conversely, Frans strategy is to alway bench any starter every time they get w fouls in 1H. The thinking is they they won’t foul out and be available to close game.

this also applies to players with 3 fouls in 1st 10min of 2nd half

the result is that Fran intentionally limits the minutes of his best players, again we saw that with Kris being benched for 16m in 1st half,

it’s also why Iowa players play soft 1H D, fail to rebound, as these activities will Create fouls and bench time.

when was the last time PMac had 2 1st half fouls? Never will happen because he knows it’s an automatic benching

this is a huge contributor to the poor 1H defense, rebounding , blocked Shots and again we see IOWA getting out rebounded and out hustled in 1h…

and the only one that gets punished is, Kris Murray…
 

HawkRugged17

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Conversely, Frans strategy is to alway bench any starter every time they get w fouls in 1H. The thinking is they they won’t foul out and be available to close game.

this also applies to players with 3 fouls in 1st 10min of 2nd half

the result is that Fran intentionally limits the minutes of his best players, again we saw that with Kris being benched for 16m in 1st half,

it’s also why Iowa players play soft 1H D, fail to rebound, as these activities will Create fouls and bench time.

when was the last time PMac had 2 1st half fouls? Never will happen because he knows it’s an automatic benching

this is a huge contributor to the poor 1H defense, rebounding , blocked Shots and again we see IOWA getting out rebounded and out hustled in 1h…

and the only one that gets punished is, Kris Murray…

Possibly this will make your point more, but Fran did bring JBo back into the first half when he had 2 fouls.
 

DodgerHawki

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Conversely, Frans strategy is to alway bench any starter every time they get w fouls in 1H. The thinking is they they won’t foul out and be available to close game.

this also applies to players with 3 fouls in 1st 10min of 2nd half

the result is that Fran intentionally limits the minutes of his best players, again we saw that with Kris being benched for 16m in 1st half,

it’s also why Iowa players play soft 1H D, fail to rebound, as these activities will Create fouls and bench time.

when was the last time PMac had 2 1st half fouls? Never will happen because he knows it’s an automatic benching

this is a huge contributor to the poor 1H defense, rebounding , blocked Shots and again we see IOWA getting out rebounded and out hustled in 1h…

and the only one that gets punished is, Kris Murray…
It likely is a factor. Guys know they will not play if they get 2 fouls in first half. So no challenging for offensive rebounds or contesting shots. There is no difference between limiting a player's time by sitting him, or having to sit him with 3 fouls in first half or if the player ends up fouling out. Fran just effectively fouls out the player without the player actually committing the fouls.
 

RocknRollface

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Fran wisely benched Kris Murray in 1st half and limited his playing time to 4 minutes.

Kris responded well in 2H by recording 6 rebounds in only 11 2H minutes.
Kris was playing defense (2 steals), protecting rim (2 blocks), recording 2nd chance opportunities (3 O Boards) along with 3 D boards.

fortunately, Fran had the wisdom to limit his exposure to this game by limiting him to 4 1H minutes and only 11 2H minutes.

again, Fran voluntarily limits the playing time, this time of his 2nd best player Kris Murray, agin fearing non existent foul trouble (3 for the game).
Kris is the 2nd best player on this team, and limiting him to 15m = a coaching blunder.

this coaching blunder may not have changed the outcome of the game, but it certainly added to the defensive rebounding issue in 1h.
At least he put Jbro back in with 2 first half fouls.
 

farina1

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Fran wisely benched Kris Murray in 1st half and limited his playing time to 4 minutes.

Kris responded well in 2H by recording 6 rebounds in only 11 2H minutes.
Kris was playing defense (2 steals), protecting rim (2 blocks), recording 2nd chance opportunities (3 O Boards) along with 3 D boards.

fortunately, Fran had the wisdom to limit his exposure to this game by limiting him to 4 1H minutes and only 11 2H minutes.

again, Fran voluntarily limits the playing time, this time of his 2nd best player Kris Murray, agin fearing non existent foul trouble (3 for the game).
Kris is the 2nd best player on this team, and limiting him to 15m = a coaching blunder.

this coaching blunder may not have changed the outcome of the game, but it certainly added to the defensive rebounding issue in 1h.
FM has never been a good in game coach, period. Pathetic that JO and Sandfort were not on the court for the last 5-6 minutes. These two need playing time/experience. JO getting just two minutes playing time against Illinois while all the time being absolutely crushed on the boards is one decision by Fran I will never understand.
 
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perryhawk

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Kris didn’t enter the game until 11 min to go in the first half so his time was already limited before the foul trouble…
And the Hawkeyes lead at that point? ISU then went on a big run to end the half......is that Kris's fault? Hardly, but the posters who blame Fran for his minutes played seem to forget how the game played out. JBO seemed to be the only one who asserted his will....and in other games JBO has not been much of a contributor. So, blaming the coach seems like a way to vent frustration.
 

perryhawk

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All I know was that JBO was out there playing pg again for no reason. Should be on the bench with no defense and instead is taking valuable time from Joe T and Ulis.
I have a completely different point of view....of this game. JBO was the only guy playing like he should have, with the exception of good minutes by Kris. Joe T did not play well and Ulis was decent, but JBO was a scoring threat that none of the others were.
 
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icwesthawk

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Perry, we were going to have to stop them and then score. JBO was not and will not be stopping anyone anytime soon. Maybe if he had like 30 points and was unstoppable on offense, sadly, not the case.
 
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Lighting Hawk

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Agree with @icwesthawk, sorry Perry but “doing what he needed to do” doesn’t mean playing on one side of the floor. Jbo plays one way, and he shoot 25% from the floor overall. He’s been relatively efficient this year but essentially a cone out there on defense. Against Brockington, Kalscheur and Hunter, 3 extremely active perimeter defenders, it’s very hard to get Jbo going because he’s not as athletic and needs a bit of space to hit shots. Gabe was all over him all game, the more we dribbled the worse we looked, which is typical of our offense we rely on passing and pace, and they did a wonderful job negating that. We needed second chance points, aka rebounds, since we shot so poor, and stops on defense - which we got a few, but didn’t capitalize. In a vacuum that’s what would have made a difference, but Thursday we just got out worked, our coached & flat out - outplayed. It sucks but, jbo playing 31 minutes is about double what he deserves. He doesn’t rebound, he doesn’t turnover guys, and he’s undersized as a 2 in any league, and when we are getting shut down on the half court O he’s not as effective especially if he’s not hitting 3’s consistently. This critique isn’t to say any of this loss should be on Jbo, but there’s now glaring issues in our rebounding, and we have guys like Kris Murray or Josh O, who could significantly help, there’s no doubting it. Frans making a huge mistake playing Kris 16 mins Thursday. He played 10 less minutes than Patrick, had 2 more steals, 1 more block, and only has 1 less point and 2 more rebounds, not to mention 3 of which were offensive. That’s getting possessions back when we need it. Patrick is not a starter and is playing way more than, from what I’ve seen, his body is conditioned for. He gets gassed and is unable to defend or get in a guys space. He gives way too much cushion and gets beat off the dribble cuz he is not in good shape, plus he probably has some health issues from his past. In my opinion, we need athletes who are dogs playing from the tip, ans getting extended minutes to win us games

Joe/ulis
Perkins
Kris
Keegan
Josh o or Rebraca

These are the guys I see with grit, and who will help the rebounding deficit the most, but we still need to start boxing out and figuring out fundamentals of defense because holy sh*t how do you get doubled up back to back on rebounds in one week?
 
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Fran wisely benched Kris Murray in 1st half and limited his playing time to 4 minutes.

Kris responded well in 2H by recording 6 rebounds in only 11 2H minutes.
Kris was playing defense (2 steals), protecting rim (2 blocks), recording 2nd chance opportunities (3 O Boards) along with 3 D boards.

fortunately, Fran had the wisdom to limit his exposure to this game by limiting him to 4 1H minutes and only 11 2H minutes.

again, Fran voluntarily limits the playing time, this time of his 2nd best player Kris Murray, agin fearing non existent foul trouble (3 for the game).
Kris is the 2nd best player on this team, and limiting him to 15m = a coaching blunder.

this coaching blunder may not have changed the outcome of the game, but it certainly added to the defensive rebounding issue in 1h.

d4567074227ddc8be454489e74ef5596--cat-memes-funny-memes.jpg
 
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Ronman

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The entire team, with the exception of JBo, played and shot the ball like a deer in headlights. Bohannon may not be the best defender we have on the floor, but without his scoring determination, we might have lost by thirty. This is still am inexperienced team that has now played three games in front of hostile crowds and they have included probably the two MOST hostile they'll experience all season. Hopefully, they'll grow up and man up for the rest of the B1G schedule.
 
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Lighting Hawk

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The entire team, with the exception of JBo, played and shot the ball like a deer in headlights. Bohannon may not be the best defender we have on the floor, but without his scoring determination, we might have lost by thirty. This is still am inexperienced team that has now played two games in front of hostile crowds and they have been probably the two MOST hostile they'll experience all season. Hopefully, they'll grow up and man up for the rest of the B1G schedule.

Or we may have lost by 5, or 10 or 40 or won by 10 by getting rebounds and stops with more athletic guards on the floor instead….Jordan is a one dimensional threat, but a good one at that, but saying “we may have lost by 30 if he hadn’t done x” is irrelevant. We got blown out, and we needed plenty of adjustments to be made to change that. Jordan scored 17 points in 31 minutes and did that on 25% shooting. That’s not good, that’s just taking a lot of shots and having some fall and getting fouled a few times and being a really good FT shooter. IMO he needs 17-20 mpg, not over 30.
 

Ronman

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Fair enough, but maybe given what McCaffrey was getting from some of our other players, he felt that if JBo got on one of his hot streaks, we at least had a chance to get into striking range at the end. Who else, with the possible exception of Keegan, could provide that? We no longer have a guy a like Luka who can put the entire team on his shoulders and score 10-12 straight points.
 
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Lighting Hawk

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Fair enough, but maybe given what McCaffrey was getting from some of our other players, he felt that if JBo got on one of his hot streaks, we at least had a chance to get into striking range at the end. Who else, with the possible exception of Keegan, could provide that? We no longer have a guy a like Luka who can put the entire team on his shoulders and score 10-12 straight points.

I agree. I see where Fran was going and why he felt Jbo could do that because he’s done great things for us in past year. those years he’s always had some solid rebounders as well. Aside from Luka, Jordan or Keegan, not many I think could do that. I’ve seen Pmac do it against crap teams this year, maybe not 10-12 points but 6-8 before they called a timeout to cool it. I think, and am like 99% sure, Kris is every bit as competent at scoring in bunches and he showed that against Purdue. He also creates turnovers, and is shooting 47% from 3 which is the highest on the team for anyone taking at least 3 per game and playing over 15 minutes.
 

Drmac22

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Conversely, Frans strategy is to alway bench any starter every time they get w fouls in 1H. The thinking is they they won’t foul out and be available to close game.

this also applies to players with 3 fouls in 1st 10min of 2nd half

the result is that Fran intentionally limits the minutes of his best players, again we saw that with Kris being benched for 16m in 1st half,

it’s also why Iowa players play soft 1H D, fail to rebound, as these activities will Create fouls and bench time.

when was the last time PMac had 2 1st half fouls? Never will happen because he knows it’s an automatic benching

this is a huge contributor to the poor 1H defense, rebounding , blocked Shots and again we see IOWA getting out rebounded and out hustled in 1h…

and the only one that gets punished is, Kris Murray…
This is exactly the problem with Iowas Defense. They do not want to play hardnose up in your face defense even though they are capable of doing it because they are afraid to pick up early cheap fouls. If you want them to play defense hard and press like ISU did then you have to allow them to do it and not punish it. Which is what Fran does. to the bench with 2 fouls in first half is stupid. You are either playing your best player with the fouls all the time and risk him fouling out, or your subbing in for him during critical times in the middle of the game with the same player you would sub in for him at the critical time at the end of the game if he fouled out. Many times we are too far gone to catch up at the end so it would not have mattered.
 

BBHawk

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Fran wisely benched Kris Murray in 1st half and limited his playing time to 4 minutes.

Kris responded well in 2H by recording 6 rebounds in only 11 2H minutes.
Kris was playing defense (2 steals), protecting rim (2 blocks), recording 2nd chance opportunities (3 O Boards) along with 3 D boards.

fortunately, Fran had the wisdom to limit his exposure to this game by limiting him to 4 1H minutes and only 11 2H minutes.

again, Fran voluntarily limits the playing time, this time of his 2nd best player Kris Murray, agin fearing non existent foul trouble (3 for the game).
Kris is the 2nd best player on this team, and limiting him to 15m = a coaching blunder.

this coaching blunder may not have changed the outcome of the game, but it certainly added to the defensive rebounding issue in 1h.
Kris played like crap in the first half. Like.crap.

He was a different player after halftime. Maybe the sit did him some good?
 
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HawkRose

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We have to commit to the younger squad, I know Fran won't do it. You start Perkins, Touisant, Murray, Murray and Rebraca. Only lineup that has shown any desire to rebound the ball.

Sprinkle in Jbo, Pmac, Ulis, Sandfort from the bench, no hockey changes. Play Josh O in situational settings.

Even if the wins/losses don't improve you are preparing for the future. Certainly the floor is lower but the ceiling for this season and future is higher.

This is where Fran truly frustrates me as a coach.
 

KcTo

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Kris played like crap in the first half. Like.crap.

He was a different player after halftime. Maybe the sit did him some good?
Benching your 2nd best player after 4 minutes?

I would propose that you start Kris Murray and give him >30m/game, and let him stuff the box score….

(BTW, I’m totally OK with pulling a good player after he makes a series of poor judgement plays, but benching and intentionally limiting his playing time is proving to be a coaching blunder )
 

KcTo

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This is exactly the problem with Iowas Defense. They do not want to play hardnose up in your face defense even though they are capable of doing it because they are afraid to pick up early cheap fouls. If you want them to play defense hard and press like ISU did then you have to allow them to do it and not punish it. Which is what Fran does. to the bench with 2 fouls in first half is stupid. You are either playing your best player with the fouls all the time and risk him fouling out, or your subbing in for him during critical times in the middle of the game with the same player you would sub in for him at the critical time at the end of the game if he fouled out. Many times we are too far gone to catch up at the end so it would not have mattered.
Recall our best game of year was probably at Purdue with out Keegan, and we fouled like crazy, and we played 10 guys

for the love of God ditch the 2 foul rule and let them play defense….!
 

BBHawk

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Benching your 2nd best player after 4 minutes?

I would propose that you start Kris Murray and give him >30m/game, and let him stuff the box score….

(BTW, I’m totally OK with pulling a good player after he makes a series of poor judgement plays, but benching and intentionally limiting his playing time is proving to be a coaching blunder )
So now Kris is the best player for Iowa?
LOL!
 
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BBHawk

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You could easily make the case that Kris has been Iowa’s second best player this year, so I’d be interested to hear why you think he objectively hasn’t and who has been better
He hasn't been consistently any better than anyone. Why do you think he's the 2nd best player? What about Joe? Tony?

It's a little too soon to start talking about Kris in these terms. He'll get better but he's not there yet.
 

Lighting Hawk

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He hasn't been consistently any better than anyone. Why do you think he's the 2nd best player? What about Joe? Tony?

It's a little too soon to start talking about Kris in these terms. He'll get better but he's not there yet.

"he hasn't been consistently any better than anyone" may be one of the most uninformed and contradictory statements I've read all day.

here is some info

read that table and then we can discuss this. Kris is #2 on the team in 'points per 40 min', ranks among the highest on the team in rebounds, 3pt%, steals, blocks, and one of the lowest turnovers per touches on the team. He is shooting 50% from the floor, on 8 attempts per game in under 20 minutes. Joe our second best player right now? are you serious? I love Joe T but he can't get out of his own way, but I'm all for him getting more PT. Tony I can get behind, he's been phenomenal and one of my favorite players. I think he and Kris are a close 2/3 and you could argue Jbo might be in the mix as 4th or 3rd best. But saying 2nd best on the team is a tough metric to gauge because there are so many categories.

Strictly stats wise and efficiency Kris is high on the team in a lot of impactful categories, and if you compare him to Pmac, who he often comes on the floor for, he is doing a lot more with less than he is. He rebounds better, he is only averaging 1 less point per game, while playing 5 fewer minutes per game, and is shooting better from the floor and creating way more stops and turnovers if you look at his averages and his +/-. Keegan and Kris have the highest +/- on the team and the next closest is Tony.

I think one of the best stats, is ORtg and DRtg. It's an estimate of points scored or points produced per 100 possesions, and points allowed per 100 possesions for defensive. Keegan and Kris lead the pack in both, with anyone over 40 minutes played this season.

so going back to what you said - it's not too soon to start talking about Kris in these terms, it's the right time. we are on a 3 game skid, and he's producing better stats on both sides of the ball than players playing ahead of him. He is one of the best players on the team, and there's evidence to back that up, he passes the eye test from my perspective. Fran in my opinion needs to toss out the 2 foul rules and quit benching guys after 2 fouls. I think it helps sometimes, but other times, it causes them to play scared with 1 foul, for fear of getting benched, so it's producing the exact reaction he has stated he wants to avoid by implementing it. We are not a great defensive team, and I feel this might have a lot to do with it.

if that table doesn't work, let me know
 

BBHawk

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"he hasn't been consistently any better than anyone" may be one of the most uninformed and contradictory statements I've read all day.

here is some info

read that table and then we can discuss this. Kris is #2 on the team in 'points per 40 min', ranks among the highest on the team in rebounds, 3pt%, steals, blocks, and one of the lowest turnovers per touches on the team. He is shooting 50% from the floor, on 8 attempts per game in under 20 minutes. Joe our second best player right now? are you serious? I love Joe T but he can't get out of his own way, but I'm all for him getting more PT. Tony I can get behind, he's been phenomenal and one of my favorite players. I think he and Kris are a close 2/3 and you could argue Jbo might be in the mix as 4th or 3rd best. But saying 2nd best on the team is a tough metric to gauge because there are so many categories.

Strictly stats wise and efficiency Kris is high on the team in a lot of impactful categories, and if you compare him to Pmac, who he often comes on the floor for, he is doing a lot more with less than he is. He rebounds better, he is only averaging 1 less point per game, while playing 5 fewer minutes per game, and is shooting better from the floor and creating way more stops and turnovers if you look at his averages and his +/-. Keegan and Kris have the highest +/- on the team and the next closest is Tony.

I think one of the best stats, is ORtg and DRtg. It's an estimate of points scored or points produced per 100 possesions, and points allowed per 100 possesions for defensive. Keegan and Kris lead the pack in both, with anyone over 40 minutes played this season.

so going back to what you said - it's not too soon to start talking about Kris in these terms, it's the right time. we are on a 3 game skid, and he's producing better stats on both sides of the ball than players playing ahead of him. He is one of the best players on the team, and there's evidence to back that up, he passes the eye test from my perspective. Fran in my opinion needs to toss out the 2 foul rules and quit benching guys after 2 fouls. I think it helps sometimes, but other times, it causes them to play scared with 1 foul, for fear of getting benched, so it's producing the exact reaction he has stated he wants to avoid by implementing it. We are not a great defensive team, and I feel this might have a lot to do with it.

if that table doesn't work, let me know
I still think those kind of analyses don't take into account the time of the game a player get in during, for example, is it at crunch time or mop up minutes. Kris really struggled in crunch minutes during the last 3 games. He wasn't alone, granted, but his stats are inflated somewhat by the time of the games that he has been in. That's why I said to give him time. He hasn't really had that moment in a game where the team needed him and he came through, like Keegan, Tony, Joe, and Jordan have. Even PMac has had some moments like this but he is still not there yet either, IMHO. Iowa will need both Kris and Patrick to get a consistently better before the season is over.
 

unoHawkeye

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I still think those kind of analyses don't take into account the time of the game a player get in during, for example, is it at crunch time or mop up minutes. Kris really struggled in crunch minutes during the last 3 games. He wasn't alone, granted, but his stats are inflated somewhat by the time of the games that he has been in. That's why I said to give him time. He hasn't really had that moment in a game where the team needed him and he came through, like Keegan, Tony, Joe, and Jordan have. Even PMac has had some moments like this but he is still not there yet either, IMHO. Iowa will need both Kris and Patrick to get a consistently better before the season is over.
And they will all get better! But iirc, Kris had a couple of huge shots, including a three, to keep us in the Purdue game down the stretch. He’s faded in crunch time as have a couple of other players. I also don’t think you can definitively say he’s the second best player, but I don’t think it’s a stretch either
 

Lighting Hawk

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I still think those kind of analyses don't take into account the time of the game a player get in during, for example, is it at crunch time or mop up minutes. Kris really struggled in crunch minutes during the last 3 games. He wasn't alone, granted, but his stats are inflated somewhat by the time of the games that he has been in. That's why I said to give him time. He hasn't really had that moment in a game where the team needed him and he came through, like Keegan, Tony, Joe, and Jordan have. Even PMac has had some moments like this but he is still not there yet either, IMHO. Iowa will need both Kris and Patrick to get a consistently better before the season is over.

Disagree. Did you watch the Purdue game?
 
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Lighting Hawk

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Perfect example of him stepping up in a huge way, just thought I’d get your further analysis on what he didn’t do against VA and Illinois, because in limited minutes I thought he was our best player in the second half, followed by Tony and Keegan. Jbo did most of his damage in the first half but was decent in the 2nd compared to the first. IMO Kris is ready for more minutes & more weight based on limited sample size.
 

BBHawk

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Perfect example of him stepping up in a huge way, just thought I’d get your further analysis on what he didn’t do against VA and Illinois, because in limited minutes I thought he was our best player in the second half, followed by Tony and Keegan. Jbo did most of his damage in the first half but was decent in the 2nd compared to the first. IMO Kris is ready for more minutes & more weight based on limited sample size.
He missed several easy buckets, defensive assignments, and was out of position for rebounding. That was obvious. You might have missed it but McC didn't nor did I. I love Kris but he is still thinking too much, especially when he's in the paint. That's the difference between him and Keegan in a nutshell. Not that he's going to be Keegan but he's not going to tap his potential until he gets more aggressive.
 
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