JuJu Watkins (in 38 games) is 4th fastest to 1,000 points. Took Caitlin 40 games

[Franisdaman]

Watkins averages 7.2 rebounds per game and her steal/block numbers are better than Caitlin’s. Caitlin’s shooting percentages are better by almost 6 percentage points. She is averaging more assists this year but still a ways of Caitlin’s pace. Curiously her ppg has gone down about 5 per game so far this year as the assist have gone up. At the end of the day, people will debate the CC/JW being the goat for years provided juju keeps this up. Both sides may have a legitimate argument.

I still say the all time scoring leader is what everyone will always talk about and what will get the media's attention. And right now, as everyone knows, that is Caitlin Clark.

Sure, CC gets noticed with her amazing passing, but at the end of the day the attention is on points, not rebounds & assists.

 

[Franisdaman]

Or the NIL money?

just remember: CC's endorsements only grew after she left college.

 

[Franisdaman]

 

[Herky T Hawk]

RE: The WNBA dropping the eligibility age

The WNBA has lived off of the stardom that their players made/earned in college. It has needed players to have great college careers before entering the league. Has there ever been a non-star college player that ended up being a "star" in the WNBA? The NBA has seen those for decades. The NBA is like MLB and NHL in that they don't need college the same way that the NFL and WNBA do. Dropping the eligibility age could hurt the college game and cause more long-term damage to the WNBA.

Having said that, with the quality of young players that we're seeing in the past few years, and all of the new eyeballs on the game this past season, the WNBA may be able to move past that limitation the same way that the NBA did decades ago. There are several top-flight college players that could have been successful in the WNBA before their eligibility. If Paige(who was eligible already) and Juju were there this past season the ratings and attendance would have been even higher. Those two didn't need more college to build their stardom.

 

[ft254]

I don't know if anyone's noticed but the press is trying its best to elevate Bueckers to Caitlin's level of attention.

Ain't going to happen. Her Christian goody persona will never rise to the fiery, yet personable, approachable personality of Clark.

Caitlin was weathered the storm of reverse racism with class and style perfect for the face of the WNBA, much to the chagrin of the slingers of arrows. Her crossover to the sport of golf at the LPGA tourney shows her ability to handle situations not thought of professional basketball players.

She is literally above anything the WNBA has seen before. Bueckers may or may not have talent equal to Calitlin's. But she does not have the overall skills, star power, gregarious personality, or downright magic. Only Micheal Jordan had that combination in my lifetime, and I have to say, Jordan had more psychical (male) skills, but Caitlin leads in the others.

No basketball player I ever heard of sold-out arenas home and away.
And conference tourneys.
And set all time TV viewership records.

On another note, IMO, the WNBA is making a mistake expanding. There is some excellent talent infusing to replace the stale, ancient players that have been loping up and down the courts, boring crowds for years.

Bulk up the league with talent instead of water it down. Expand gradually. Clark ignited a fire. Don't let it flash and burn itself out.

 

[ft254]

I still say the all time scoring leader is what everyone will always talk about and what will get the media's attention. And right now, as everyone knows, that is Caitlin Clark.

Sure, CC gets noticed with her amazing passing, but at the end of the day the attention is on points, not rebounds & assists.

Are USCs arena sell outs? Are their away games sell outs? Granted, it was CC's Jr. and Sr. years, but her personality as well as her talent is what made/make her special.

Rock star personality. Fans travelled hours and hundreds of miles to have a chance to see her play. To get her autograph. Stayed after games to gather it in. Press zoomed out to get images of the crowds wanting her autograph. Remarkable. A 20(+) year old basketball player.

They still do.

Paige, JuJu, the bar is very high. Higher than points, assists and rebounds.

 

[Franisdaman]

Are USCs arena sell outs?

Not even close. Attendance was just 3,594 for USC's last home game (Galen Center has 10,258 seats).

In 2021-2022, Iowa averaged 8,224 per game, which was 5th best nationally.

In 2022-2023:
#1 South Carolina Gamecocks – 12,942
#2 Iowa Hawkeyes – 11,143
#3 Iowa State Cyclones – 10,323
#4 UConn Huskies – 10,255

In 2023-2024, Iowa sold out CHA, of course. I can't find the national attendance rankings, however.

In 2024-2025, Iowa sold out CHA again, of course.

South Carolina, Iowa lead women's college basketball in attendance in 2022-23 season

.

www.on3.com

Women's Basketball Attendance

Women's Basketball Attendance

www.ncaa.org

 

[ft254]

Not even close. Attendance was just 3,594 for USC's last home game (Galen Center has 10,258 seats).

In 2021-2022, Iowa averaged 8,224 per game, which was 5th best nationally.

In 2022-2023:
#1 South Carolina Gamecocks – 12,942
#2 Iowa Hawkeyes – 11,143
#3 Iowa State Cyclones – 10,323
#4 UConn Huskies – 10,255

In 2023-2024, Iowa sold out CHA, of course. I can't find the national attendance rankings, however.

In 2024-2025, Iowa sold out CHA again, of course.

South Carolina, Iowa lead women's college basketball in attendance in 2022-23 season

.

www.on3.com

Women's Basketball Attendance

Women's Basketball Attendance

www.ncaa.org

I knew they weren't. It was rhetorical. And I doubt road game sell outs. Paige neither.

If USC and UCONN games are road game sell outs, it will be team, not individual based.

The fact CC was a one time phenomenon, larger than stats was my point.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

I knew they weren't. It was rhetorical. And I doubt road game sell outs. Paige neither.

If USC and UCONN games are road game sell outs, it will be team, not individual based.

The fact CC was a one time phenomenon, larger than stats was my point.

UConn attendance is traditionally quite good. The Harry A. Gampel Pavilion has a capacity of a little over 10k ... and they've gotten near that number for each game there so far this season.

Certainly, Caitlin is/was a phenomenon. However, another side of that has to deal with the competition for attention. In Los Angeles, there are a lot of pro-sports competing for fan-attention. USC football does have some tradition of attracting fan attention ... but getting similar attention for women's sports is certainly an issue.

However, it's important to note that Caitlin was putting up impressive numbers her FR and SO seasons ... but it wasn't until here JR season that Carver was sold-out the whole season. Thus, there was a little bit of an inertia that had to be built up ... before the whole Caitlin phenomena truly "took off."

 

[ft254]

UConn attendance is traditionally quite good. The Harry A. Gampel Pavilion has a capacity of a little over 10k ... and they've gotten near that number for each game there so far this season.

Certainly, Caitlin is/was a phenomenon. However, another side of that has to deal with the competition for attention. In Los Angeles, there are a lot of pro-sports competing for fan-attention. USC football does have some tradition of attracting fan attention ... but getting similar attention for women's sports is certainly an issue.

However, it's important to note that Caitlin was putting up impressive numbers her FR and SO seasons ... but it wasn't until here JR season that Carver was sold-out the whole season. Thus, there was a little bit of an inertia that had to be built up ... before the whole Caitlin phenomena truly "took off."

That's why I said it in my post it was in her Jr and Sr years the attention caught hold.

Edit:

You're right about LA's pro sports attention. But CC sold out arenas everywhere, in every market area. And the attention level has already been raised. Very little attention had been paid towards women's college basketball pre-Caitlin.

And TV viewership of Iowa's games was far and away above all other NCAA tournament games.

Star Power.

JuJu didn't have to break the ceiling...she hasn't even reached it.

 

[kceasthawk]

UConn attendance is traditionally quite good. The Harry A. Gampel Pavilion has a capacity of a little over 10k ... and they've gotten near that number for each game there so far this season.

Certainly, Caitlin is/was a phenomenon. However, another side of that has to deal with the competition for attention. In Los Angeles, there are a lot of pro-sports competing for fan-attention. USC football does have some tradition of attracting fan attention ... but getting similar attention for women's sports is certainly an issue.

However, it's important to note that Caitlin was putting up impressive numbers her FR and SO seasons ... but it wasn't until here JR season that Carver was sold-out the whole season. Thus, there was a little bit of an inertia that had to be built up ... before the whole Caitlin phenomena truly "took off."

Of course not much to work with her freshman year as NO ONE was in the stands anywhere. Covid year.....

 

[UpstreamHawkeye]

I wonder if this Caitlin fever will last until she retires, or if people will stop cramming the arenas after a few years.

 

[Titanhawk2]

JuJu Watkins has a very good chance at playing quite a few more games than CC played, but that requires her to stay four years (she probably will), avoid injury for four consecutive years, and for USC to make it to or near the championship games in the Big 10 and NCAA tournaments the next three years (they should--but that doesn't mean that they will). If USC plays 39 games each of her last three seasons, that is 151 games total--12 more than CC.

Even if JJW gets 151 games, she still has to average 25.9 points per game over the hypothetical 117 games in her sophomore-senior seasons to catch CC. With an increasingly stacked and talented USC roster to share scoring opportunities with, that will be a very tall task. Through four games this season, she is averaging 21.5 ppg (along with some very impressive defensive stats). The all time scoring record may be in danger in 2027, but it is going to be a monumental task to get there.

Have to be 22 to be in the draft, that would be after her fourth year

 

[Franisdaman]

ESPN is really hyping her.

 

[Franisdaman]

ESPN says the center of the universe has shifted from Iowa City to LA.

LOL

Why USC's JuJu Watkins is the next big thing in college hoops

The center of the college basketball universe has shifted from Iowa City to Los Angeles. And JuJu Watkins has snatched the torch.

www.espn.com

 

[MplsHawk]

ESPN says the center of the universe has shifted from Iowa City to LA.

LOL

Why USC's JuJu Watkins is the next big thing in college hoops

The center of the college basketball universe has shifted from Iowa City to Los Angeles. And JuJu Watkins has snatched the torch.

www.espn.com

JJW is really good. If there is a better women's college player right now, I'm not sure who that player is. For the reasons discussed, her breaking CC's scoring record will be tough, but she is still a very talented player with a combination of scoring and defense. Paige B may well be butt hurt over the JJW attention, but I don't see it as a negative against any of our players.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

JJW is really good. If there is a better women's college player right now, I'm not sure who that player is. For the reasons discussed, her breaking CC's scoring record will be tough, but she is still a very talented player with a combination of scoring and defense. Paige B may well be butt hurt over the JJW attention, but I don't see it as a negative against any of our players.

I just feel for JuJu not getting the fan-attention she deserves. ESPN and other sports-media folks will certainly do their best to hype her up ... but she deserves to be playing in front of sold-out arenas too. She is THAT good. This is no knock on other players either ... it's just good to celebrate talent out of appreciation for the artistry involved. Hidalgo is fun to watch too ... and, as a general rule, I hate Notre Dame (I'm no fan of USC either, for that matter).

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

ESPN is really hyping her.

View embedded media

If it helps to continue to shine a bright light on women's athletics ... then I'm all for it. They're (obviously) just doing it in the chase after the almighty dollar ... but, as Caitlin-mania clearly demonstrated ... there is a huge market out there that isn't even remotely tapped to the degree that it could be. They need to be careful to not be hyperbolic with their hype ... but, in the context of folks like JJ, HH, and PB ... it's deserved.

 

[Franisdaman]

JJW is really good. If there is a better women's college player right now, I'm not sure who that player is. For the reasons discussed, her breaking CC's scoring record will be tough, but she is still a very talented player with a combination of scoring and defense. Paige B may well be butt hurt over the JJW attention, but I don't see it as a negative against any of our players.

I never questioned JuJu being good. I simply was making fun of ESPN saying that the center of the universe has shifted from Iowa City to LA.

The arenas should be packed when JuJu plays, just like they were for Caitlin/Iowa....right?

Not.

The Galen Center in LA seats 10,258.

Attendance (tickets sold & distributed) at USC's (4-1) games so far:

4,000*: #3 USC 68, #20 Ole Miss 66 (Paris, France)
5,215: #3 USC 90, Cal Poly 35 (Galen Center, home of USC)
3,064: #3 USC 124, Cal State Northridge 39 (Galen Center, home of USC)
3,594: #3 USC 81, Santa Clara 50 (Galen Center, home of USC)
7,894: #6 Notre Dame 74, #3 USC 61 (Galen Center, home of USC)

*The 8,000-capacity Adidas Arena, home to the men's Paris Basketball team, was about half full.

USC 68-66 Ole Miss (Nov 4, 2024) Game Recap - ESPN

Expert recap and game analysis of the USC Trojans vs. Ole Miss Rebels NCAAW game from November 4, 2024 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[Franisdaman]

If it helps to continue to shine a bright light on women's athletics ... then I'm all for it. They're (obviously) just doing it in the chase after the almighty dollar ... but, as Caitlin-mania clearly demonstrated ... there is a huge market out there that isn't even remotely tapped to the degree that it could be. They need to be careful to not be hyperbolic with their hype ... but, in the context of folks like JJ, HH, and PB ... it's deserved.

It will be interesting to see what viewership numbers and attendance numbers are this year with no Caitlin Clark.

Will JuJu and Paige sell out arenas, both home & away? Will the nation tune in to their games, like they did for Iowa games? We'll see....

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

It will be interesting to see what viewership numbers and attendance numbers are this year with no Caitlin Clark.

Will JuJu and Paige sell out arenas, both home & away? Will the nation tune in to their games, like they did for Iowa games? We'll see....

Part of what helped sell Caitlin was that she was chasing history ... and that she was so relatable. On top of that ... Caitlin is highly charismatic, she demonstrably loves the game (it's fun to watch people who have such a joy for something) ... and her unparalleled range captivated the imagination of so many people. Oh yeah ... she tries to make circus passes every few minutes. So the theatrics isn't just her scoring ... but her entire orchestrating of the game.

Paige is used to playing in full-houses at home games ... but I doubt that she has even remotely the same draw at away games. Part of it is that her game isn't entertaining in the same way.

I dare say that quite apart from her scoring and rebounding ... JuJu's game doesn't possess the same entertainment value that Caitlin's has either.

 

[Tenacious E]

Don’t know shit about the W historically but have bet there been euro stars come and continue to be stars without attending college? Or is that just an NBA thing?

 

[pablow]

I just feel for JuJu not getting the fan-attention she deserves. ESPN and other sports-media folks will certainly do their best to hype her up ... but she deserves to be playing in front of sold-out arenas too. She is THAT good. This is no knock on other players either ... it's just good to celebrate talent out of appreciation for the artistry involved. Hidalgo is fun to watch too ... and, as a general rule, I hate Notre Dame (I'm no fan of USC either, for that matter).

Being good does not always equate to media stardom. For years Kareem was easily the best basketball player on the planet, but he was aloof, pouty, and just not that interesting to watch. On the other hand, Dr. J was not the basketball player that Jareem was, but his looks, demeanor, gracious personality and high flying game created a huge sensation. He is still a legend.

Caitlin has both the best-in-the-game basketball skills and the Dr. J factor. I can't recall we've every seen that before.

Paige and JuJu are great player, but IMO not that exiciting. They both will get huge fan attention. However, IMO we will not see a another Caitlin for many, many years. She kind of a one-off.

 

[SCHawkFan]

Don’t know shit about the W historically but have bet there been euro stars come and continue to be stars without attending college? Or is that just an NBA thing?

The European stars mainly stay in Europe. There is a lot more money there.

 

[wondergrape]

ESPN is really hyping her.

View embedded media

Rightfully so. She will be one of the best ever.

 

[Bro D]

Rightfully so. She will be one of the best ever.

Yea, she's ****ing amazing. Hawk fans should embrace the shit out of her

 

[amahawk]

I don't know if anyone's noticed but the press is trying its best to elevate Bueckers to Caitlin's level of attention.

Ain't going to happen. Her Christian goody persona will never rise to the fiery, yet personable, approachable personality of Clark.

Caitlin was weathered the storm of reverse racism with class and style perfect for the face of the WNBA, much to the chagrin of the slingers of arrows. Her crossover to the sport of golf at the LPGA tourney shows her ability to handle situations not thought of professional basketball players.

She is literally above anything the WNBA has seen before. Bueckers may or may not have talent equal to Calitlin's. But she does not have the overall skills, star power, gregarious personality, or downright magic. Only Micheal Jordan had that combination in my lifetime, and I have to say, Jordan had more psychical (male) skills, but Caitlin leads in the others.

No basketball player I ever heard of sold-out arenas home and away.
And conference tourneys.
And set all time TV viewership records.

On another note, IMO, the WNBA is making a mistake expanding. There is some excellent talent infusing to replace the stale, ancient players that have been loping up and down the courts, boring crowds for years.

Bulk up the league with talent instead of water it down. Expand gradually. Clark ignited a fire. Don't let it flash and burn itself out.

I think the WNBA is working overtime to dethrone CC with another player, any other player. The W is missing the point that her popularity is beyond basketball. Charles Barkley was 100% correct about the WNBA.

 

[wondergrape]

I think the WNBA is working overtime to dethrone CC with another player, any other player. The W is missing the point that her popularity is beyond basketball. Charles Barkley was 100% correct about the WNBA.

Silly post. Find a hobby.

 

[amahawk]

Silly post. Find a hobby.

It is the truth.

 

[UpstreamHawkeye]

USC's offense is... underwhelming. Just lost to Notre Dame 61-74 at home. I remember many games by USC with scores in the sixties last season. Doesn't seem to have improved.

 

[citizenHawk]

Notre Dame might just be that good? Probably a bummer for the "Big Ten," but I'm not a fan of those Pac 12 teams stealing light from the traditional conference.

 

[ghostOfHomer777]

USC's offense is... underwhelming. Just lost to Notre Dame 61-74 at home. I remember many games by USC with scores in the sixties last season. Doesn't seem to have improved.

Didn't help that USC was down a starting guard

 

[MplsHawk]

USC's offense is... underwhelming. Just lost to Notre Dame 61-74 at home. I remember many games by USC with scores in the sixties last season. Doesn't seem to have improved.

Today I wasn't nearly as impressed with JJW's game. She got a couple of buckets in the last minute when the game was in the bag for Notre Dame to get to 24, but she didn't shoot well at all. I thought Hidalgo was pretty impressive.

 

[ft254]

I just feel for JuJu not getting the fan-attention she deserves. ESPN and other sports-media folks will certainly do their best to hype her up ... but she deserves to be playing in front of sold-out arenas too. She is THAT good. This is no knock on other players either ... it's just good to celebrate talent out of appreciation for the artistry involved. Hidalgo is fun to watch too ... and, as a general rule, I hate Notre Dame (I'm no fan of USC either, for that matter).

Whoa! Deserves to have arena sellouts. An athlete produces. If any athlete or celebrity has the star power to excite the public, that's the way it works. Caitlin Clark would have sold out games in Los Angeles once her star status had been established. Watkins will never have that quality. JuJu and Paige will never have the total package. Marketing can't create it, few have ever had it, and Clark is in a league of her own. People simply haven't grasped the significance.

No argument regarding Watkin's talent. But will people buy airline tickets to fly to destinations to watch her play and get a chance for an autograph or a selfie? People want to see the unusual. Jump shots. Set shots. Rebounds. Meh!

LOGO 3s. You're likely to see many attempts. 5.5 makes per game from the logo.

1/2 and 3/4 court length passes. Behind the back and no look passes to cutting players.

Entertainment. More than basketball. She filled arenas b/c fans waited on the edge of their seats see what she was going to do next.

 

[Franisdaman]

Today I wasn't nearly as impressed with JJW's game. She got a couple of buckets in the last minute when the game was in the bag for Notre Dame to get to 24, but she didn't shoot well at all. I thought Hidalgo was pretty impressive.

The game was at the Galen Center in LA (10,258 capacity). The announced attendance (total tickets sold & distributed) for #6 Notre Dame vs #3 USC was only 7,894.

JuJu played 39 of the 40 minutes.

She had 5 turnovers.

Her other stats:

0-5 (0%) from 3
10-20 (50%) from 2 pt range
...........................................................
10-25 (40%) overall shooting

4-6 (67%) FTs

24 Points
5 Assists
6 Rebounds
2 Steals
1 Block

 

[Chuck C]

Whoa! Deserves to have arena sellouts. An athlete produces. If any athlete or celebrity has the star power to excite the public, that's the way it works. Caitlin Clark would have sold out games in Los Angeles once her star status had been established. Watkins will never have that quality. JuJu and Paige will never have the total package. Marketing can't create it, few have ever had it, and Clark is in a league of her own. People simply haven't grasped the significance.

No argument regarding Watkin's talent. But will people buy airline tickets to fly to destinations to watch her play and get a chance for an autograph or a selfie? People want to see the unusual. Jump shots. Set shots. Rebounds. Meh!

LOGO 3s. You're likely to see many attempts. 5.5 makes per game from the logo.

1/2 and 3/4 court length passes. Behind the back and no look passes to cutting players.

Entertainment. More than basketball. She filled arenas b/c fans waited on the edge of their seats see what she was going to do next.

Yeah, it’s something that can’t be forced. It’s organic. Juju is a great player, but I don’t see her ever having the circus following like Clark did. That’s ok. Clark is a spectacle. Clark’s personality plays into it. You don’t know if Clark is going to make a long 3, half court pass or get T’d up. People want to see what she does next. She’s a borderline psycho in her competitiveness, most of the great ones are. I never watched a WNBA game before this past year, I think I watched every one of CC’s game except 1 or 2.

 

[Franisdaman]

I will never question JuJu being good.

But I will always question ESPN saying that the center of the universe has shifted from Iowa City to LA.

The arenas should be packed when JuJu plays, just like they were for Caitlin/Iowa....right?

Not.

The Galen Center in LA seats 10,258.

Attendance (tickets sold & distributed) at USC's (4-1) games so far:

4,000*: #3 USC 68, #20 Ole Miss 66 (Paris, France)
5,215: #3 USC 90, Cal Poly 35 (Galen Center, home of USC)
3,064: #3 USC 124, Cal State Northridge 39 (Galen Center, home of USC)
3,594: #3 USC 81, Santa Clara 50 (Galen Center, home of USC)
7,894: #6 Notre Dame 74, #3 USC 61 (Galen Center, home of USC)

*The 8,000-capacity Adidas Arena, home to the men's Paris Basketball team, was about half full.

USC 68-66 Ole Miss (Nov 4, 2024) Game Recap - ESPN

Expert recap and game analysis of the USC Trojans vs. Ole Miss Rebels NCAAW game from November 4, 2024 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[kceasthawk]

Being good does not always equate to media stardom. For years Kareem was easily the best basketball player on the planet, but he was aloof, pouty, and just not that interesting to watch. On the other hand, Dr. J was not the basketball player that Jareem was, but his looks, demeanor, gracious personality and high flying game created a huge sensation. He is still a legend.

Caitlin has both the best-in-the-game basketball skills and the Dr. J factor. I can't recall we've every seen that before.

Paige and JuJu are great player, but IMO not that exiciting. They both will get huge fan attention. However, IMO we will not see a another Caitlin for many, many years. She kind of a one-off.

Very well stated. CC22 showmanship is an outlier along with her skill level and top level basketball IQ..

 

[kceasthawk]

Silly post. Find a hobby.

I'd say his point that Clarks appeal does in fact go beyond the game and its usual fans. Thats one big thing that sets her apart from JJ, PB, or most current W players...

 

[kceasthawk]

I'd add another thing that really set CC22 apart is her ability to raise her game under the brightest of lights. Under the biggest microscope ever in the game possibly. From game enders too her other worldly play in the 2023 elite 8 to finals run. Raising her game her senior year. With the burden of expectations and spotlight unseen before too average 32/9/7 while destroying every record that stood in her way. Then to jump to the W in just weeks and carry on. Still to stay true to herself. Connected to the fans. gracious to the media hoard. Staying above the backlash from naysayers. What she layed before us those last two years was far more then numbers to be matched or broken by future talents like Juju.