Kadyn Proctor discussion on Washed Up Walkons

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
6,497
6,281
113
Well, there is no doubt that it is taxable income.

It also seems clear to me that it will subject to Self-Employment Tax (SS & Medicare).

A free car? That will be taxable income and SE tax also. So, if the lease payments on a car are $900/mo, that's $10,800 of taxable income and the cash for the tax will have to come from his cash NIL.

Lots of tax - lots left over.
why self employment tax? because they aren't "professionals/employees"?

I assume pro aren't subject to full SE tax. If correct that's pretty funny!
 

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
6,497
6,281
113
Well, interesting question.

First, I'm not sure if any of these guys will be considered employees - I don't think the businesses will want them as employees. Health insurance, workers compensation, 401k, etc. I suppose they could be considered "part-time" employees which may get the employer off the hook for some of that.

I think they will mostly be Independent Contractors - their job won't be football, it will be "marketing" or "public relations". Remember they are not being paid to play football (wink), they are being paid for their NIL.

Some clever accountant or lawyer may try to claim that they have "sold their NIL", which is an intangible asset and should be treated as a capital gain and not subject to self-employment tax.

I'm not buying it, and I don't think the IRS will either. That doesn't mean it won't get litigated.

I also don't think they will be employees of the school. If they are it would be a tax disaster. The scholarship would be taxable and the athletic program would likely lose their tax exempt status.

It's going to be interesting ....... at least for those of us that are tax nerds.
these kids get better "health insurance" than 99% of employees in the us! the best ones basically get worksman comp too.
how long til one goes to court to claim they're an employee and save that 7%? :)

they can "sell their nil", i guess. they wouldn't be able to transfer though(and get nil). can't sell something they no longer own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk_4shur

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
15,168
20,049
113
these kids get better "health insurance" than 99% of employees in the us! the best ones basically get worksman comp too.
how long til one goes to court to claim they're an employee and save that 7%? :)

they can "sell their nil", i guess. they wouldn't be able to transfer though(and get nil). can't sell something they no longer own.
They get great health insurance, just not from the people that provide NIL money. They get it from the school.

If they try to argue that they are employees of the school, then their scholly will be taxable income. So, I don' t think they will try to save 7%! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ClarindaA's

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
6,497
6,281
113
They get great health insurance, just not from the people that provide NIL money. They get it from the school.

If they try to argue that they are employees of the school, then their scholly will be taxable income. So, I don' t think they will try to save 7%! ;)
Why would scholarship be taxed? All the money from businesses that help pay toward employeess education is taxed?
 

DodgerHawki

HR Heisman
Nov 19, 2002
9,480
11,119
113
They get great health insurance, just not from the people that provide NIL money. They get it from the school.

If they try to argue that they are employees of the school, then their scholly will be taxable income. So, I don' t think they will try to save 7%! ;)
I actually don't think college players are covered by health insurance from the school. They are covered by the plan their family members have with employers or insurance their family obtained via the health exchange. At least that was the case a few years ago.

College players do get great access to rehab via training staff to deal with injuries, recovery from surgery, etc., but not for healthcare. If a player suffers a torn ACL playing football, the family is footing the bill through their insurance to pay for the surgery. With the caveat that it was this way a few years ago, it could have changed in that time. It has never made since to me that their medical bills for injuries suffered while playing college football were not covered by the school. I'm sure it's all about cost.
 

MepoDawg#

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 29, 2012
15,660
16,979
113
Why would scholarship be taxed? All the money from businesses that help pay toward employeess education is taxed?
Depending on how it’s classified, portions of athletic scholarships can be taxed (room and board for example).
 

Bulldog64

Scout Team
Feb 3, 2008
114
104
43
I am sure that as part of the Athletic department they will be offering Tax Services or at least I would hope so or a lot of College players will be transferring to the California penal leagues.
 

Bulldog64

Scout Team
Feb 3, 2008
114
104
43
He will be another beastly left tackle in the same mold as Wirfs, Scherff, Bulaga, Reiff etc. rolling over helpless defenders along the way!

I would slow down on the comparisons of this kid to Wirfs or even Scherff. He has not showed that he has the functional athleticism than those two. not sure on Reiff or Bulaga but Wirfs was an "athlete" he excelled in many sports. Scherff was a Drake relays Champion. Both threw over 60 ft in the shot. I am in no way saying that he couldn't be in the same league but this is why the NIL stuff is so Crazy. A kid has never set foot on a college field a supposedly promise 1M over a career. Not sure if I will ever be able to wrap my head around the new dynamics of college football recruiting
 

scotthawk1964

HR All-American
Sep 12, 2014
4,009
6,674
113
58
DeLand, Fl
Id rather spend this money on a proven transfer. Immediate impact and you know exactly what you are getting. You have to remember that when you develop a player you have to keep matching offers so that they dont leave.
I see your point, however the biggest argument I would have with that is that the majority of transfers in the portal are transferring because they are not starting at the school they are at. Some are unhappy sure for various reasons, but it seems to me that most are transferring because of lack of playing time. Even a proven kid say from Princeton, maybe is is proven at that level, but is he D1 material? It's still a crap shoot. The rest are grad transfers, and why would you rather have a one year grad transfer over a 5* blue chipper that you know you are going to have at least two years with? Proctor is a local kid, and he is a much more sure bet then any proven transfer portal guy. ;) Just my opinion for what it's worth. LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoFla-Hawkeye

Hawk fan in Minn

HR All-State
Gold Member
Mar 1, 2020
881
1,541
93
Why would scholarship be taxed? All the money from businesses that help pay toward employeess education is taxed?
There is a 5250 annual education exemption I believe. $5,250 isn’t very much but I believe that is the rule. Meaning an employer can pay up to $5,250 per year that is not taxed as long as the employer has a written educational assistance plan And the employee supplies the receipts for the education
 

hawk_a_holic

HR Legend
Aug 21, 2001
14,814
3,235
113
A few notes on Kadyn Proctor's recruitment from the latest podcast of Washed Up Walkons:
  • David Eickholt was on (Hawkeye Insider on 247Sports), and said he thinks there's a 70-75% Proctor goes to Iowa. Says Iowa is the clear leader.
  • Tyler Kluver said he's heard from anonymous sources that Iowa's staff has told Proctor:
    • That Proctor should be able to make $1M+ during his Hawkeye career in NIL
    • That Proctor could get any car NIL sponsorship he wants, meaning that he could get a free monthly lease on whatever car he wants (Rolls Royce, Range Rover, BMW, etc.)
Interesting stuff, and good to hear that some insiders are bullish on Proctor coming to Iowa.
A few notes on Kadyn Proctor's recruitment from the latest podcast of Washed Up Walkons:
  • David Eickholt was on (Hawkeye Insider on 247Sports), and said he thinks there's a 70-75% Proctor goes to Iowa. Says Iowa is the clear leader.
  • Tyler Kluver said he's heard from anonymous sources that Iowa's staff has told Proctor:
    • That Proctor should be able to make $1M+ during his Hawkeye career in NIL
    • That Proctor could get any car NIL sponsorship he wants, meaning that he could get a free monthly lease on whatever car he wants (Rolls Royce, Range Rover, BMW, etc.)
Interesting stuff, and good to hear that some insiders are bullish on Proctor coming to Iowa.
It would be great to see Saban win a ring for damn near his small pinky toe, Iowa is a 1st round option so long KF does not decide a longer tenured player is good enough. I think KF will put him on the Wifrs track. But if he goes to Bama then Roll Tide.
 

MepoDawg#

HR Legend
Gold Member
Oct 29, 2012
15,660
16,979
113
There is a 5250 annual education exemption I believe. $5,250 isn’t very much but I believe that is the rule. Meaning an employer can pay up to $5,250 per year that is not taxed as long as the employer has a written educational assistance plan And the employee supplies the receipts for the education
There’s also the Working Condition Fringe Benefit. At least there used to be, I used it when my employer paid for my MAcc. They did tell me not to tell anyone else about it. Not sure why. Got $30k tax free.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hawk fan in Minn

BBHawk

HR Legend
Oct 31, 2001
27,999
21,213
113
Iowa City
Learning about money management and taxes while in college might be the most important thing a big-time athlete like Proctor takes away from his time in Iowa City. Barring injury, he will make a lot of money in his professional life so start building a team to help manage that as an 18-year-old. Hopefully, he is getting the guidance needed to do this right.

It should be done at the high school level.
There are so many things that should start at the high school level. Building a team to manage finances like Proctor will have isn't one of them!
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

HR Heisman
Gold Member
May 9, 2018
5,865
7,840
113
Two thoughts:

1. No small number of these NIL children are about to get a world class education from another set of initials, the IRS.

2. I cannot believe that anyone could possibly think that looking for a good transfer is a better plan, short and long term, than signing a top level 5* in state recruit. Iowa is no stranger to Kadyn. He's been coming to games for a pretty long time, he's probably been in the locker room after games, certainly familiar with strength and conditioning style, the school, etc.. A lot of these DSM area kids hang around with each other when at home. I guessing Kadyn has already partied with these Des Moines kids and has formed many friendships. Imagine what those kids are saying about getting Gavin, X and Kadyn together again? I'll bet he knows how many and how well paid are the Iowa alums in the NFL.

Literally and metaphorically an enormous recruit for Iowa.
 

oldnewkirk.0

All-Conference
Oct 4, 2019
388
872
93
I actually don't think college players are covered by health insurance from the school. They are covered by the plan their family members have with employers or insurance their family obtained via the health exchange. At least that was the case a few years ago.

College players do get great access to rehab via training staff to deal with injuries, recovery from surgery, etc., but not for healthcare. If a player suffers a torn ACL playing football, the family is footing the bill through their insurance to pay for the surgery. With the caveat that it was this way a few years ago, it could have changed in that time. It has never made since to me that their medical bills for injuries suffered while playing college football were not covered by the school. I'm sure it's all about cost.
Yes and no. At UIHC Iowa athletes surgeries/prescriptions are run through their families insurance as a primary, but whatever out of pocket expenses that exist are covered by an athletics account. I’ve never seen an athlete ever have to pay for anything so long as the injury was actually a sports injury. Not sure if this is unique to Iowa since we have our own built in teaching hospital or if all universities provide this.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
15,168
20,049
113
Why would scholarship be taxed? All the money from businesses that help pay toward employeess education is taxed?
There is something like a $5,250 limit per year, unless it is considered to be directly related to their employment - like CPE. A player being paid to play football taking a math class doesn't qualify.
 

LaQuintaHawkeye

HR All-American
Dec 16, 2017
4,495
6,446
113
I’m too busy celebrating the fact that we landed a short, undersized, white point guard with no significant offers. Watch out for Iowa basketball now!!!! Final Four here we come!!!

Thoughts on #51 ranked Koch?

tumblr_mijouexOP61rdutw3o1_400.gif
 

BonzoFury

All-Conference
Feb 4, 2022
411
732
93
The car might have some flexibility if you worked it like a "company car."
Nope. Has to be specifically for use in company business and even then you get charged back (or it's tagged as income) for personal use miles. If it's an employment perk and not directly connected to use for company business then it's simple income.

NIL is like any other kind of personal income, they're gonna pay taxes on it.
 

isuisshit

HR All-State
Sep 19, 2021
530
791
93
A few notes on Kadyn Proctor's recruitment from the latest podcast of Washed Up Walkons:
  • David Eickholt was on (Hawkeye Insider on 247Sports), and said he thinks there's a 70-75% Proctor goes to Iowa. Says Iowa is the clear leader.
  • Tyler Kluver said he's heard from anonymous sources that Iowa's staff has told Proctor:
    • That Proctor should be able to make $1M+ during his Hawkeye career in NIL
    • That Proctor could get any car NIL sponsorship he wants, meaning that he could get a free monthly lease on whatever car he wants (Rolls Royce, Range Rover, BMW, etc.)
Interesting stuff, and good to hear that some insiders are bullish on Proctor coming to Iowa.
Erik Dickerson is thinking if he had played in today's game he wouldn't have to drive a trans am
 

StatisticsLie

All-Conference
May 29, 2014
437
294
63
Simple workaround for most of these players: Establish an S-Corporation to avoid the self-employment tax on all of the income. They become employee-owners of their own business and can give themselves payroll benefits: 401k/FSA/HSA/childcare etc. Deduct all of their expenses - off-season meals/gas/phone/401k/etc. and keep their adjusted gross income below $157K for these unmarried players, deduct another 20% for qualified business income deduction and you're in business. Get a CPA and he'll be just fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MitchLL

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

HR Heisman
Gold Member
May 9, 2018
5,865
7,840
113
Simple workaround for most of these players: Establish an S-Corporation to avoid the self-employment tax on all of the income. They become employee-owners of their own business and can give themselves payroll benefits: 401k/FSA/HSA/childcare etc. Deduct all of their expenses - off-season meals/gas/phone/401k/etc. and keep their adjusted gross income below $157K for these unmarried players, deduct another 20% for qualified business income deduction and you're in business. Get a CPA and he'll be just fine.
how many will be sufficiently mature to pay attention to a CPA, or even think they really need one?
 

Birky

HR Heisman
Nov 23, 2001
9,874
5,078
113
Simple workaround for most of these players: Establish an S-Corporation to avoid the self-employment tax on all of the income. They become employee-owners of their own business and can give themselves payroll benefits: 401k/FSA/HSA/childcare etc. Deduct all of their expenses - off-season meals/gas/phone/401k/etc. and keep their adjusted gross income below $157K for these unmarried players, deduct another 20% for qualified business income deduction and you're in business. Get a CPA and he'll be just fine.
If it were any simpler, it would be brain surgery.
 

StatisticsLie

All-Conference
May 29, 2014
437
294
63
If it were any simpler, it would be brain surgery.
If Iowa doesn't have a mandatory financial literacy class for all of its football/basketball players, then that's on them. Other schools have established those classes.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

HR Heisman
Gold Member
May 9, 2018
5,865
7,840
113
That's on the Iowa football department if they have not established financial literacy classes to go along with their slow development of an NIL director/manager
They're pros now my friend. Not Iowa's job to teach them financial literacy.

There are a lot of young men that generally know far less than the think they know. They typically prove that frequently.
 

StatisticsLie

All-Conference
May 29, 2014
437
294
63
They're pros now my friend. Not Iowa's job to teach them financial literacy.

There are a lot of young men that generally know far less than the think they know. They typically prove that frequently.
Saying it's not Iowa's job is setting Iowa up for failure. You want to help your players develop their NIL deals and teach them basics as that will only help with retention. Taking that attitude will give Iowa a poor name in NIL which will coincide with the loss of players to schools that do help them get deals and how to maximize tax avoidance/long-term wealth.
 

pistachio1999

HR MVP
Nov 29, 2021
1,257
1,575
113
Saying it's not Iowa's job is setting Iowa up for failure. You want to help your players develop their NIL deals and teach them basics as that will only help with retention. Taking that attitude will give Iowa a poor name in NIL which will coincide with the loss of players to schools that do help them get deals and how to maximize tax avoidance/long-term wealth.
Haha. 18 or 19 year old kids (especially males) don't have the best abilities in following guidance. Tell them 18 year olds to save for retirement, lol. Blank stare.

One thing is for sure the number of sharks swimming in the water just went up exponentially. They are hungry and want to feed on this new revenue stream.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

HR Heisman
Gold Member
May 9, 2018
5,865
7,840
113
Saying it's not Iowa's job is setting Iowa up for failure. You want to help your players develop their NIL deals and teach them basics as that will only help with retention. Taking that attitude will give Iowa a poor name in NIL which will coincide with the loss of players to schools that do help them get deals and how to maximize tax avoidance/long-term wealth.
No, teaching professional athletes financial skills went out the door with all the other "amateur" in locus parenti responsibilities. They are adults. They have high paying jobs. Hire a financial manager, CPA and broker. We aren't preparing them for failure we are paying them so they can pay for their lives instead of someone else continuing to provide for them.
 

bozotheclown

Team MVP
Dec 10, 2019
260
251
63
For a guy who loves hawk sports you don’t seem to think much of the IQ of most of our players.
I don't think it is really an IQ thing, but give an 18 year old male a stack of cash, adoration of fans, including a lot of young hotties, mix in some people with their own financial agendas and what do you think will happen. Most of us were just never in that position but I know I made some really bad decisions at 18, most involving women and alcohol and I have a pretty high IQ, didn't matter LOL. A few drinks, a cute young thing and soon my pockets were empty, and i didn't have the advantages a scholarship athlete with NIL cash had. I'm not saying they shouldn't be given financial advice, but I doubt most will listen.
 

bozotheclown

Team MVP
Dec 10, 2019
260
251
63
I don't think it is really an IQ thing, but give an 18 year old male a stack of cash, adoration of fans, including a lot of young hotties, mix in some people with their own financial agendas and what do you think will happen. Most of us were just never in that position but I know I made some really bad decisions at 18, most involving women and alcohol and I have a pretty high IQ, didn't matter LOL. A few drinks, a cute young thing and soon my pockets were empty, and i didn't have the advantages a scholarship athlete with NIL cash had. I'm not saying they shouldn't be given financial advice, but I doubt most will listen.
On second thought, they weren't really BAD decisions, they were bad financially but they were a lot of fun and I don't regret them at all LOL.
 

The Deplorable Sleeping Dog

HR Heisman
Gold Member
May 9, 2018
5,865
7,840
113
What does Jesus have to do with this?

I mean we should explain the NIL deal so the recruits know the contract to which they are agreeing. You guys are far too worried about what "people will say". We've had great recruiting classes since race baiters thought they could kill Kirk. The negative recruiters will say bad things, and they will always find bad things to say about Iowa, and every other competitor. I cannot imagine the presence of an 8th grade level consumer economics course, you know the one where you learn about family budgets, savings and investing, etc... would have any effect on recruiting.

The 18 year old recruit is only hearing the amount that will be on checks, and nothing else, and most will sell their soul for that amount of money. Welcome to the USA circa 2022.

Check the boxes. These players are all adults, are they not? They are being paid to play a sport for Iowa, are they not? Some will leave college independently wealthy and many will earn more than enough to hire their own CPAs, financial planners and brokers. Why should the U of Iowa divert its resources to assist these adult professional athletes with their financial management?

Indeed, how do you morally justify taking money from other things and people like the recruiting budgets, the non schollie teams, the advertising and PR budget, etc...to provide even more benefits and privileges to the University's most privileged, wealthiest students? That seems patently unfair. You really cannot morally justify it, can you?
 
Last edited:

Latest posts