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Keto and fasting

I think it's an insecurity many people have regardless of gender.
She is well aware. She's just throwing the bait out to get some bites. If anyone says anything that can be construed as negative towards women in any way she will be there to point out that men are just as bad, if not worse...and it's true, we generally are. She just can't help but point it out though out of insecurity.
 
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Isn't that what guys say when a gf/wife starts losing weight? That she's going to leave, cheat, she met a new guy...
That's what happened to me. She got into a gym. Snapped back to her old form and now living with a dude 15yrs older. Weird.

Been on keto/IF for a year now. Down 90lbs. Was down 65lbs when I found out her infidelity.
 
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She is well aware. She's just throwing the bait out to get some bites. If anyone says anything that can be construed as negative towards women in any way she will be there to point out that men are just as bad, if not worse...and it's true, we generally are. She just can't help but point it out though out of insecurity.

Dude, almost every time I bring up an issue regarding ____ affecting women, there are at least a few posters who are always like "well, men are affected by ____ too, so..."
 
Dude, almost every time I bring up an issue regarding ____ affecting women, there are at least a few posters who are always like "well, men are affected by ____ too, so..."
So you're saying that you're doing something annoying in return to something done by others that's annoying? Ok. If it bothers you, ignore it. Don't do the same thing in return.
 
@Wendy79 , given your background, what are your thoughts on the whole intermittent fasting topic? Can it be healthy? Can you build muscle following this kind of a system?

Not a doctor or anything (waiting for whatshisface to be like yeahweknowshutup) but IF makes sense...drink some black coffee in the morning, get some cardio in, and you'll be breaking down glycogen stores (cardio and caffeine --> increased levels of epinephrine plus low glucose levels --> higher levels of glucagon, both of which stimulate lypolysis). And there have been some studies done that show fasting for a day (and fasting in this case is still taking in about 500 calories) a couple times a week can help extend people's lives and stuff; I think extended fasting is pointless.
 
So you're saying that you're doing something annoying in return to something done by others that's annoying? Ok. If it bothers you, ignore it. Don't do the same thing in return.

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Not a doctor or anything (waiting for whatshisface to be like yeahweknowshutup) but IF makes sense...drink some black coffee in the morning, get some cardio in, and you'll be breaking down glycogen stores (cardio and caffeine --> increased levels of epinephrine plus low glucose levels --> higher levels of glucagon, both of which stimulate lypolysis). And there have been some studies done that show fasting for a day (and fasting in this case is still taking in about 500 calories) a couple times a week can help extend people's lives and stuff; I think extended fasting is pointless.

Much appreciated, thanks!
 
Are you generally inactive?

Avg activity, natural strength...just threw up 240 lbs on the bench press after not really hitting weights much for 5 or so years.

I walk the golf course a few times a week so that is 5 miles or so. I help run a baseball facility a few days every week so I am busy and on my feet either throwing BP/giving swing instructions (baseball instruction isn't super intense but throwing a 200+ balls at a fairly decent clip a few times per week can work up a sweat).

Apparently I was just blessed with high insulin production and unfortunately that hormone is the fat storing one so I am incredible efficient at turning carbs and sugars into fat storage. You should feel blessed that you don't have that same insulin production. I am sure during hunter gathering days it was a blessing but not so much in modern society. Good news is 40 years later I found out what works for me and eating the standard american diet just isn't in the cards, it is just too bad that our medical community and govt haven't got on board that their advice has given approximately 50% of US citizens some form of metabolic syndrome...great job food pyramid.
 
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Not a doctor or anything (waiting for whatshisface to be like yeahweknowshutup) but IF makes sense...drink some black coffee in the morning, get some cardio in, and you'll be breaking down glycogen stores (cardio and caffeine --> increased levels of epinephrine plus low glucose levels --> higher levels of glucagon, both of which stimulate lypolysis). And there have been some studies done that show fasting for a day (and fasting in this case is still taking in about 500 calories) a couple times a week can help extend people's lives and stuff; I think extended fasting is pointless.

It has also been shown that HGH production increases and peaks some time in-between 2-3 days of fasting. I believe that atophogy peaks sometime in this range of fasting as well although this subject matter is a more recent discovery so the jury is still out on it but it what as been shown is promising.
 
@Wendy79 , given your background, what are your thoughts on the whole intermittent fasting topic? Can it be healthy? Can you build muscle following this kind of a system?

Check this out:

Dr. Jason Fung, who deals with a multitude of patients with kidney disease and diabetes in an interview talks about fasting as an alternative, healthier way to burn fuel.

“During fasting, you start by burning off all the glycogen in the liver, which is all the sugar. There’s a point there where some of the excess amino acids in your body need to get burnt as well.

That’s where people say, ‘That’s where you’re burning muscle.’ That’s not actually what happens. The body never upregulates its protein catabolism. Never is it burning muscle; there’s a normal turnover that goes on.

There is a certain amount of protein that you need for a regular turnover. When you start fasting, that starts to go down and then fat oxidation goes way up. In essence, what you’ve done is you switched over from burning sugar to burning fat. Once you start burning fat, there’s almost an unlimited amount of calories there. You could go for days and days.”


Periodic or intermittent fasting have been shown to increase testosterone and human growth hormone –two important factors in building and maintaining muscle mass PLUS the anti-aging effects of HGH not only turn back the clock internally, but externally as well. This muscle conservation stage has an expiration date though, usually after 10-15 days of extended fasting muscle deterioration may occur, BUT depending on how much body fat you carry (some people can fast longer than 30 days without muscle-wasting due to having excess body fat). A popular misconception in the health industry is that once we are in a starved-state, our bodies seek our muscle as fuel, but that’s simply not true–if it were, we would have been extinct a long time ago.

Here’s a few staggering insulin-related stats presented by the CDC that Americans are facing:

  • 1/3rd of Americans have prediabetes (insulin resistance) or type-2 diabetes
  • Prediabetes can blossom into type-2 diabetes in as soon as 5 years
  • 40% of Americans are considered obese
  • 1 in out of every 2 Americans have a chronic disease!
Any fast over 20 hours increases and maximizes cellular autophagy: a physiological process whereby the body starts cleaning out the junk in the cells that accrues from free radicals which ultimately age you and engender cancer tumors that can proliferate to major organs. In recent research, cancer and Alzheimers are now showing signs of being a metabolic disease (high blood sugar/insulin) rather than just a genetic disease. Although more research is to be done on the correlation between insulin/blood sugar and cancer, it’s safe to say that keeping a close watch on your numbers would be salubrious for longevity purposes. That said, giving yourself a long fast once a year to lower insulin could potentially rid any cancerous cells from accumulating. The graph below illustrates how when insulin drops, HGH increases.

37239-cahillstudy.png



Here are the benefits of doing extended fasts (4-10 days):

  • Reduces inflammation
  • Normalizes blood pressure
  • Has the ability to reverse type-2 diabetes
  • Neurogenesis (Creation of new brain cells)
  • Fat loss
  • Destroys any unwanted food cravings
  • Increases energy
  • Improves sense of well being
  • Stabilizes mood from blood sugar regulation
  • Reduces insulin which in turn lowers triglycerides and improves HDL cholesterol
  • Increases immune function
  • Reduceds the risk of cancer cell expansion
  • Better, more restorative sleep
  • Anti-aging benefits and cognitive enhancement. Helps with a cloudy brain
  • Fights chronic diseases
  • Fasting shows instant improvements for patients with rheumatoid arthritis
 
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@Wendy79 , given your background, what are your thoughts on the whole intermittent fasting topic? Can it be healthy? Can you build muscle following this kind of a system?
Not Wendy and also not a Dr but the answer is yes. It’s slower than traditional bulking (loading up on a ton of carbs) but much healthier.

What you want to do is ideally work out fasted or at least eat low calorie and low carb prior to workouts. Workout hard and then feast post-workout. The idea is to get your body in an insulin sensitive state and then nourish it post workout. Then fast again.
 
I had good luck with keto much of last year but any time I tried IF, even skipping just 1 meal, would cause diarrhea. And I mean the explosive, just-ate-at-Golden-Corral-type diarrhea. So I gave up IF.
 
quick update. I’ve lost 14 pounds in 3 weeks. I’m now in a nice rhythm with food. 251 down to 237. Starting to get a mild ab again.

Girlfriend isn’t excited about it...thinks I’ll cheat. Odd comment from her
I am on weight watchers and fasting. I tried KETO but had no success. What I doing now is working
 
For the fasting people, I was thinking of incorporating this into my day but not sure where to start? Is it better to do the 7PM-Noon type or do the skip lunch type? Or should it be even longer than that to get better results?
 
For the fasting people, I was thinking of incorporating this into my day but not sure where to start? Is it better to do the 7PM-Noon type or do the skip lunch type? Or should it be even longer than that to get better results?
Someone else can give a more scientific answer but fasting from 8 pm to 12 pm certainly feels more natural (and easier) to me. Dinner is your last meal of the day, no bedtime snacks, and no breakfast except coffee. Everyone’s different but I’m much more busy and focused in the morning anyway so I don’t really get the food cravings as long as I’m drinking water pretty consistently.
 
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For the fasting people, I was thinking of incorporating this into my day but not sure where to start? Is it better to do the 7PM-Noon type or do the skip lunch type? Or should it be even longer than that to get better results?
Do what works for you. Find a roughly 16-18 hour window (I like 18-20) where you won’t eat / drink anything other than plain tea, coffee, or water. Overnight is obviously best because that’s 7-8 hours right there. I usually stop eating around 6-6:30 pm and eat my brunch around 11-11:30.

If my day’s schedule allows, I’ll work out before breaking the fast, then I’ll have a plain whey protein shake with half a banana. This spikes my insulin sky high post-workout and shuttles the protein and a few carbs straight to the muscles. Then, 30 min to an hour later, I’ll eat a meal of a few carbs, moderate protein, low to moderate fat. Then I’ll eat my dinner around 6. Typically moderate protein, high fat, low carb. So basically 2 complete meals a day. Almost never any snacking between.
 
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Avg activity, natural strength...just threw up 240 lbs on the bench press after not really hitting weights much for 5 or so years.

I walk the golf course a few times a week so that is 5 miles or so. I help run a baseball facility a few days every week so I am busy and on my feet either throwing BP/giving swing instructions (baseball instruction isn't super intense but throwing a 200+ balls at a fairly decent clip a few times per week can work up a sweat).

Apparently I was just blessed with high insulin production and unfortunately that hormone is the fat storing one so I am incredible efficient at turning carbs and sugars into fat storage. You should feel blessed that you don't have that same insulin production. I am sure during hunter gathering days it was a blessing but not so much in modern society. Good news is 40 years later I found out what works for me and eating the standard american diet just isn't in the cards, it is just too bad that our medical community and govt haven't got on board that their advice has given approximately 50% of US citizens some form of metabolic syndrome...great job food pyramid.

What is the standard American diet? I doubt I follow it. I also don’t look to blame others for any health related short comings. It’s my body, I am ultimately responsible for it. You have to know what works for you and what doesn’t. I am constantly trying to improve performance, but usually only small adjustments. I don’t “preach” to anyone a single/simple path forward. Rarely is a panacea available. It’s to each their own. I only recommend giving whatever they try time. Not flipping around every two weeks.


Bench pressing and throwing a ball doesn’t generally qualify as good cardio. Walking is ok, but you have to do quite a bit of it. What you describe doesn’t sound like “average activity.” Regardless of diet, good cardio should always be worked in (other health benefits unrelated to weight).
 
What is the standard American diet? I doubt I follow it. I also don’t look to blame others for any health related short comings. It’s my body, I am ultimately responsible for it. You have to know what works for you and what doesn’t. I am constantly trying to improve performance, but usually only small adjustments. I don’t “preach” to anyone a single/simple path forward. Rarely is a panacea available. It’s to each their own. I only recommend giving whatever they try time. Not flipping around every two weeks.


Bench pressing and throwing a ball doesn’t generally qualify as good cardio. Walking is ok, but you have to do quite a bit of it. What you describe doesn’t sound like “average activity.” Regardless of diet, good cardio should always be worked in (other health benefits unrelated to weight).

You have never thrown a ball or swung a club at a high level have you?
 
You have never thrown a ball or swung a club at a high level have you?

I have and just because you get winded doesn’t mean it’s great cardio (maybe a good sign you lack fitness?) How many times a week do you do this? For how long? Are you doing them in series? I haven’t seen anyone training to increase their VO2 max by doing either of those activities.
 
I haven't tried intermittent fasting and doubt I ever will, but I find it intriguing. I eat 4 meals a day and two snacks, generally. I have great results with what I do, but I do enjoy hearing new things like this. I got my Master's in Kinesiology, but we didnt really touch this subject, even in sports nutrition class.

Like I said, I doubt I'll ever try it, but to each their own. It is quite interesting.
 
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I had lost 15 pounds prior to our trip to Spain a few weeks ago. Pretty sure I gained all that back and then some during and after the trip. I am switching it up now and starting a 16/8 fasting schedule with workouts again.

I am hoping that between fasting and going back to the gym which also started last week, I see results pretty quick. Dieting alone isn't typically enough for me. I am 6'1'' and 230 lbs. currently, but would like to get back down to 210. I have a pretty large frame so I can carry that weight pretty easily. I am lucky at least that at 49, my body still responds quickly to lifting and cardio. Gotta muscle back up before swimming season. I am tired of feeling fat and tired all the time.

I am similar in age and body type. Just had testosterone pellet inserts for 2nd time. This should have me motivated over next 6 months to train over summer with son. I typically get way stronger on them and burn fat quickly. Feel like I’m cheating but love feeling great everyday and looking forward to workouts. I have great results with IF and keto as well.
 
Check this out:

Dr. Jason Fung, who deals with a multitude of patients with kidney disease and diabetes in an interview talks about fasting as an alternative, healthier way to burn fuel.

“During fasting, you start by burning off all the glycogen in the liver, which is all the sugar. There’s a point there where some of the excess amino acids in your body need to get burnt as well.

That’s where people say, ‘That’s where you’re burning muscle.’ That’s not actually what happens. The body never upregulates its protein catabolism. Never is it burning muscle; there’s a normal turnover that goes on.

There is a certain amount of protein that you need for a regular turnover. When you start fasting, that starts to go down and then fat oxidation goes way up. In essence, what you’ve done is you switched over from burning sugar to burning fat. Once you start burning fat, there’s almost an unlimited amount of calories there. You could go for days and days.”


Periodic or intermittent fasting have been shown to increase testosterone and human growth hormone –two important factors in building and maintaining muscle mass PLUS the anti-aging effects of HGH not only turn back the clock internally, but externally as well. This muscle conservation stage has an expiration date though, usually after 10-15 days of extended fasting muscle deterioration may occur, BUT depending on how much body fat you carry (some people can fast longer than 30 days without muscle-wasting due to having excess body fat). A popular misconception in the health industry is that once we are in a starved-state, our bodies seek our muscle as fuel, but that’s simply not true–if it were, we would have been extinct a long time ago.

Here’s a few staggering insulin-related stats presented by the CDC that Americans are facing:

  • 1/3rd of Americans have prediabetes (insulin resistance) or type-2 diabetes
  • Prediabetes can blossom into type-2 diabetes in as soon as 5 years
  • 40% of Americans are considered obese
  • 1 in out of every 2 Americans have a chronic disease!
Any fast over 20 hours increases and maximizes cellular autophagy: a physiological process whereby the body starts cleaning out the junk in the cells that accrues from free radicals which ultimately age you and engender cancer tumors that can proliferate to major organs. In recent research, cancer and Alzheimers are now showing signs of being a metabolic disease (high blood sugar/insulin) rather than just a genetic disease. Although more research is to be done on the correlation between insulin/blood sugar and cancer, it’s safe to say that keeping a close watch on your numbers would be salubrious for longevity purposes. That said, giving yourself a long fast once a year to lower insulin could potentially rid any cancerous cells from accumulating. The graph below illustrates how when insulin drops, HGH increases.

37239-cahillstudy.png



Here are the benefits of doing extended fasts (4-10 days):

  • Reduces inflammation
  • Normalizes blood pressure
  • Has the ability to reverse type-2 diabetes
  • Neurogenesis (Creation of new brain cells)
  • Fat loss
  • Destroys any unwanted food cravings
  • Increases energy
  • Improves sense of well being
  • Stabilizes mood from blood sugar regulation
  • Reduces insulin which in turn lowers triglycerides and improves HDL cholesterol
  • Increases immune function
  • Reduceds the risk of cancer cell expansion
  • Better, more restorative sleep
  • Anti-aging benefits and cognitive enhancement. Helps with a cloudy brain
  • Fights chronic diseases
  • Fasting shows instant improvements for patients with rheumatoid arthritis

Not Wendy and also not a Dr but the answer is yes. It’s slower than traditional bulking (loading up on a ton of carbs) but much healthier.

What you want to do is ideally work out fasted or at least eat low calorie and low carb prior to workouts. Workout hard and then feast post-workout. The idea is to get your body in an insulin sensitive state and then nourish it post workout. Then fast again.

VERY helpful stuff here, guys. Thanks!
 
I am similar in age and body type. Just had testosterone pellet inserts for 2nd time. This should have me motivated over next 6 months to train over summer with son. I typically get way stronger on them and burn fat quickly. Feel like I’m cheating but love feeling great everyday and looking forward to workouts. I have great results with IF and keto as well.

That's awesome. I always feel better when I'm working out including a better attitude which I could really use at this time.

Diets get squirelly because wife (pic in another thread) and I can function with pretty different diets. Not sure if it's an age thing or what. I'm 49 and she is 38. She HAS to eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, very regimented. I can go long periods without eating and it doesn't bother me at all. That didn't used to be the case, but I am starting to embrace it, mainly because if I eat when I'm not hungry, I often feel miserable afterwards. Either way, I'm excited to be doing this and with having cut down on drinking alcohol significantly, I'm hoping that contributes to better results also.
 
That's awesome. I always feel better when I'm working out including a better attitude which I could really use at this time.

Diets get squirelly because wife (pic in another thread) and I can function with pretty different diets. Not sure if it's an age thing or what. I'm 49 and she is 38. She HAS to eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, very regimented. I can go long periods without eating and it doesn't bother me at all. That didn't used to be the case, but I am starting to embrace it, mainly because if I eat when I'm not hungry, I often feel miserable afterwards. Either way, I'm excited to be doing this and with having cut down on drinking alcohol significantly, I'm hoping that contributes to better results also.
I can take you way down the rabbit hole here. But I’m going to try to keep it simple. This video is a good start on fasted workouts.



For longevity and health, there are countless studies that show the best way to increase longevity is to decrease calories. But, in my opinion, there is a trade off. I’m already lean so I don’t want to lose more weight. So I need to consume a certain amount of calories. So I eat 2 calorically and nutritionally dense meals each day, preferably after my workout but not always. I try to eat all my food within a 6-8 hour window. If I was trying to lose weight, I’d condense the window further to say a 4 hour window. Many people are now doing one meal a day (“OMAD”) or the Warrior Diet. It’s the same concept.

We think of our bodies and calories in a 24 hour cycle; I.e., I had 2000 calories today. But the body varies between catabolic and anabolic states throughout the day. So, when you’re fasted, your body can break down body fat for fuel and then when you feast, you replenish.

Here’s another good video on OMAD. I don’t particularly follow this plan because I find it hard to get sufficient calories and nutrients in just one meal but the video is worth a watch.



I’ll stop here because I don’t want to overwhelm anyone. But, suffice it to say, I’m not a fan of eating all day long.

Disclaimer: I’m not a doctor, nutritionist, trainer or the like. I’m just some random guy on the internet who reads a lot of this stuff and it’s a bit of a hobby for me. Do your own research.
 
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Also, fasting (length of the fast needed is up for debate) induces autophaghy, especially in the presence of a low carb diet.

What is Autophagy?
During starvation, cells break down proteins and other cell components and use them for energy. During autophagy, cells destroy viruses and bacteria and get rid of damaged structures. It’s a process that is critical for cell health, renewal, and survival.

Fasting for Health
Scientists have found that fasting for 12+ to 24+ hours triggers autophagy, and is thought to be one of the reasons that fasting is associated with longevity. There is a large body of research that connects fasting with improved blood sugar control, reduced inflammation, weight loss, and improved brain function; Oshumi’s research provides some of the “how” to this research. Exercise can also induce autophagy in some cells, allowing cells to start the repair and renewal process.

“Sporadic short-term fasting, driven by religious and spiritual beliefs, is common to many cultures and has been practiced for millennia, but scientific analyses of the consequences of caloric restriction are more recent. Published studies indicate that the brain is spared many of the effects of short-term food restriction, perhaps because it is a metabolically privileged site that, relative to other organs, is protected from the acute effects of nutrient deprivation, including autophagy. We show here that this is not the case: short-term food restriction induces a dramatic upregulation of autophagy in cortical and Purkinje neurons … Our observation that a brief period of food restriction can induce widespread upregulation of autophagy in CNS neurons may have clinical relevance. As noted above, disruption of autophagy can cause neurodegenerative disease, and the converse also may hold true: upregulation of autophagy may have a neuroprotective effect.”

This guy won the Noble Prize for his research on this stuff.


https://www.bluezones.com/2018/10/f...y-nobel-prize-winning-research-on-cell-aging/


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/science/yoshinori-ohsumi-nobel-prize-medicine.html
 
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For the fasting people, I was thinking of incorporating this into my day but not sure where to start? Is it better to do the 7PM-Noon type or do the skip lunch type? Or should it be even longer than that to get better results?

What is your goal? Get stronger, lose fat, maintain weight, bulk?
 
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What is your goal? Get stronger, lose fat, maintain weight, bulk?

A little bit of stronger and weight loss. I am 41 years old 6'4" and weigh in the ballpark of 235-240 depending on the day. Would like to get that down to about 220 or so. So basically just leaner as Im not a blob by any means but not quite as slim as I was years ago.
 
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A little bit of stronger and weight loss. I am 41 years old 6'4" and weigh in the ballpark of 235-240 depending on the day. Would like to get that down to about 220 or so. So basically just leaner as Im not a blob by any means but not quite as slim as I was years ago.

Keto and IF would help you hit those goals.
 
I do 16/8 every day. I lift 2x a day, both fasted with my first meal immediately following my second lifting session. I was already in really good shape....but since starting this, along with sprint intervals, I get accused of juicing...I love it.

Edit. I do eat at least 190 grams of protein a day, use creatine abs drink a lot of water. I Also have one day a week of "normal eating". Usually on Sunday
 
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I’ve done both. Fasting sucks. I did a 15 day challenge and every night I would leave the house and go for a walk while the wife and kid had dinner so I wasn’t tempted. But I would smell every dinner from every house on my walk and it drove me nuts. I lost 15 lbs and gained it all back quickly after.

Tried it again a year later and lasted 11 days. I’ll never do that again.

I’ve been doing a low carb diet the past two years. Where I watch my carbs mon through fri. No bread. No pasta. No chips. But I have a few Gummi bears at night. :0)
Then I will drink on Friday and Saturday night and maybe have some hashbrowns in the morning.
I’ve maintained around 255 after being at 287 two years ago.
I started lifting weights again this year every other day and getting back to my old strength. And I’m maintaining my weight which is good. Where as before I would lift and then pig out on carbs thinking that’s what I was supposed to do.
 
I'm about 6'1" and I weighed 345.

:eek:

I know...I am proud that I've completely cut fast food from my diet, exercise everyday with lifting 4 times a week, and focus on good protein, veggies, and healthy foods.

Right around 185 to 190 right now, got my body fat down to under 13%, and all my cholesteral, blood sugar, BP, etc numbers are right where they need to be.

In order, I'd say it was
Healthy eating (focus on protein and foods that arent high in both carbs AND fat)
Lifting
Sleep
Cardio
 
I’ve done both. Fasting sucks. I did a 15 day challenge and every night I would leave the house and go for a walk while the wife and kid had dinner so I wasn’t tempted. But I would smell every dinner from every house on my walk and it drove me nuts. I lost 15 lbs and gained it all back quickly after.

Tried it again a year later and lasted 11 days. I’ll never do that again.

I’ve been doing a low carb diet the past two years. Where I watch my carbs mon through fri. No bread. No pasta. No chips. But I have a few Gummi bears at night. :0)
Then I will drink on Friday and Saturday night and maybe have some hashbrowns in the morning.
I’ve maintained around 255 after being at 287 two years ago.
I started lifting weights again this year every other day and getting back to my old strength. And I’m maintaining my weight which is good. Where as before I would lift and then pig out on carbs thinking that’s what I was supposed to do.

mmmm...gummy bears right before a lift are great.
 
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