Los Angeles On Fire

[bcherod]

Your point? We don't have 1:1 ratios between water tanks and hydrants. Many hydrants to one tank. They could've been dry because the tank was losing pressure due to other fire fighting efforts.

City officials came out and said there was a problem with keeping the tanks replenished. (hence dry hydrants)

It looks like an infrastructure problem for the dry hydrants. I'm sure it has been a big risk for decades. Probably because A) they hadn't had the worst-case-scenario we're seeing now, B) it would be extremely costly to do, C) it would be extremely time consuming and potentially disruptive to city life.

Basically all the same reasons an old bridge is left in place. (until it starts falling apart)

Fire breaks would have had limited effect in this scenario give you had extreme winds raining down embers on houses near the ocean from the hills 100s of feet above them.

They do clear brush and have ordinances surrounding this issue. What evidence do we have that this was a big issue?

But this is what you were dealing with. (see below) Clearing the hills of brush was not a feasible thing to do. LA made a mistake when they allowed people to move out into the hills.

Just as Florida made a big mistake allowing beach development around PCB and surrounding areas. In my lifetime, I’ve seen that area destroyed 5 times.

People come back and rebuild, knowing full well the risks.

One could say that after Camille, in the late 60’s, it shouldn’t have been redeveloped, but it was.

Developers will build anywhere and people want to live on the beach. In SoCal, people do the same, even knowing the history of the land.

It’s the same everywhere. Politics only play a role when it involves money from donors.

 

[Ghee Buttersnaps]

Nope, option D s just part of the Democrats failure here, DEI and LGBTQ were part of it too.

What specific DEI and LGBTQ policies were at play here. I'm still curious how being straight makes you better at fighting fires.

You're so blind if you think there were not failures with elected leadership in California and the cancerous policies they embrace.

So, you have to be of a specific political persuasion to make a mistake? Good to know. I would recommend all politicians change their party to Republican. Oh shit, I guess Texas is fooooked! Those yee hawers got frozen out due to Republican decisions policy (and greed).

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

The rainy season was a good time to take it off line. Not the fire season. Unfortunately LA hasn't gotten any rain this winter.
Perhaps if they asked a psychic when the rains would fail they could have planned better! Who do you use?

I use Madame Theyguessedwrongbitch

 

[BelemNole]

I use Madame Theyguessedwrongbitch

That explains most of your posts.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

That explains most of your posts.

Just kidding. It doesn't take a psychic to discover how mismanaged the situation was.

 

[BelemNole]

Just kidding. It doesn't take a psychic to discover how mismanaged the situation was.

Oh, what would you have done differently if you were running the area? Please, be specific and tell us how each change would have prevented the fires.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

What specific DEI and LGBTQ policies were at play here. I'm still curious how being straight makes you better at fighting fires.

So, you have to be of a specific political persuasion to make a mistake? Good to know. I would recommend all politicians change their party to Republican. Oh shit, I guess Texas is fooooked! Those yee hawers got frozen out due to Republican decisions policy (and greed).

You're curious? Hopefully you're not a furrie because we all know what curiosity did to the kitty.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

Oh, what would you have done differently if you were running the area? Please, be specific and tell us how each change would have prevented the fires.

Wait a second! Don't tell me you're another dude who thinks there was no mismanagement at all.

 

[BelemNole]

Wait a second! Don't tell me you're another dude who thinks there was no mismanagement at all.

Again, tell us what you would do differently in your Facebook Wisdom.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Again, tell us what you would do differently in your Facebook Wisdom.

You are as good at the moonwalk as MJ was.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

This seems to be about as good as any for containment updates.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2025/01/10/los-angeles-fires-updates-california-palisades-eaton/

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

Again, tell us what you would do differently in your Facebook Wisdom.

I'll answer your question if you'll answer mine. Go!

 

[Ghee Buttersnaps]

You're curious? Hopefully you're not a furrie because we all know what curiosity did to the kitty.

Still unable or uneducated enough to answer the question, I see.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

Oh oh >

 

[RicoSuave102954]

What specific DEI and LGBTQ policies were at play here. I'm still curious how being straight makes you better at fighting fires.

So, you have to be of a specific political persuasion to make a mistake? Good to know. I would recommend all politicians change their party to Republican. Oh shit, I guess Texas is fooooked! Those yee hawers got frozen out due to Republican decisions policy (and greed).

The LA fires are an epitaph for Democrat misrule​

MSN

 

[Ghee Buttersnaps]

Wait a second! Don't tell me you're another dude who thinks there was no mismanagement at all.

Wait a second! Don't tell me you're another dude who can't differentiate between mismanagement and "DEI and LGBTQ" policies.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Still unable or uneducated enough to answer the question, I see.

You're so easy to manipulate and getting you to spaz out is sheer entertainment. I'll keep pulling your strings and you just keep dancing.

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Oh oh >

View embedded media

Probably need to divert the money to more Gay parties, etc.

 

[Ghee Buttersnaps]

The LA fires are an epitaph for Democrat misrule​

MSN

Still not seeing ANYTHING about DEI training or an LGBTQ fire chief as the culprit. I also like how the article rounded up the 17 mil budget cut to 20 mil and failed to mention why the police department got a 7% increase. If it were me, I'd be kicking on Bass's door asking why the police department got such a significant increase--MILLIONS--rather than bitching about a mere $100K to a trans cafe, but that's just me.

 

[BelemNole]

I'll answer your question if you'll answer mine. Go!

I have seen nothing obviously mismanaged thus far.

Now please, provide your list of what you would have done differently. Be specific, show your work.

 

[Here_4_a_Day]

OMG! jo can't help you, Gravy Gavy! In 10 days your ass belongs to Donald J Trump! >

 

[Ghee Buttersnaps]

You're so easy to manipulate and getting you to spaz out is sheer entertainment. I'll keep pulling your strings and you just keep dancing.

That's what you think is happening?

 

[MichaelKeller99]

The old saying is true; ‘When God closes a door, somewhere a window opens’.

Sadly, it’s true, LA. You’ve gone up in flames and all hope seems lost. But have you heard the news…Joey B is a GREAT GRANDFATHER!!!!!!! This changes everything!!!!!!



🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏 🙏

 

[stillh8unlv]

OMG! jo can't help you, Gravy Gavy! In 10 days your ass belongs to Donald J Trump! >

View embedded media

 

[RicoSuave102954]

Authorities say none of the blazes have been contained and that there is "no possibility" of bringing them under control. According to the LA Fire Department, the situation remains "very dangerous" and wind speeds are "worsening."

The Los Angeles Times also reported that some firefighters battling the blazes said on internal radio systems that hydrants were coming up dry, meaning they did not have enough water to put out the fire.

An LA Department of Water & Power spokesman confirmed reports of reduced water flow from hydrants but provided no details on the number or scope of the issue. In a statement to the Los Angeles Times, the agency said crews were working to maintain water supplies, which rely on water tanks.

The extent and cause of the problem remain unclear. Similar hydrant issues hampered firefighting efforts during Ventura County's Mountain fire in November when inactive water pumps delayed hillside water delivery.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Thanks for the detailed response.

However, any way you slice it they were still woefully unprepared. Maybe the state, city, and LAFD's main focus should be fire prevention engineering instead of social engineering?

To the extent this is an infrastructure problem it will now be remedied. The proverbial closing of the barn door, after the fact however. This is utter devastation. No way in hell will this gross mismanagement be allowed to continue. Such a shame an apocalypse needed to occur first.

I think there may be some merit to some of your points, but do you still maintain there was no mismanagement?

It looks like to me that LA would have been as vulnerable to this kind of fire 20, 40 , 60 etc...
years ago as it was today. (Provided that the population existed in the fire prone areas)

This was a high end event. They simply didn't have the infrastructure or resources to fight it. And seemingly never have.

So in that way all the leadership for decades has failed to equip the city with what they need for this worst case scenario.

I'm sure there were mistakes made specific to this event by the current admin, but pointing to at those items misses the bigger picture and much bigger contributor to the problem.

 

[BelemNole]

It looks like to me that LA would have been as vulnerable to this kind of fire 20, 40 , 60 etc...
years ago as it was today. (Provided that the population existed in the fire prone areas)

This was a high end event. They simply didn't have the infrastructure or resources to fight it. And seemingly never have.

So in that way all the leadership for decades has failed to equip the city with what they need for this worst case scenario.

I'm sure there were mistakes made specific to this event by the current admin, but pointing to at those items misses the bigger picture and much bigger contributor to the problem.

Bitching about the city being prepared for this event is similar to bitching if a tsunami hits LA - WHY DIDN'T THEY BUILD A WALL??!!!!?!!? WHO FAILED TO PLAN FOR THIS?!?!

 

[Colonoscopy]

Fire hazard map for Cali.

Southern California has the highest concentration of the highest fire hazard zones in the state. Allowing people to build in these zones was a giant risk that was finally realized:

Experience

experience.arcgis.com

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

I have seen nothing obviously mismanaged thus far.

Now please, provide your list of what you would have done differently. Be specific, show your work.

This is as specific as one needs to get: have freaking water available at every hydrant on day one. My God, what a Keystone Cops situation with firefighters running from empty hydrant to empty hydrant. No significant mismanagement there?

In 5, 10, 20 years, however long it takes to remedy the problem, you will have your specific answer. You'll have your eureka moment. Oh! That's what they should have done all those decades prior to 2025.

 

[Colonoscopy]

This is as specific as one needs to get: have freaking water available at every hydrant on day one. My God, what a Keystone Cops situation with firefighters running from empty hydrant to empty hydrant. No significant mismanagement there?

In 5, 10, 20 years, however long it takes to remedy the problem, you will have your specific answer. You'll have your eureka moment. Oh! That's what they should have done all those decades prior to 2025.

That means redesigning their water system to accommodate fires of this scale. That's a multi year multi billion dollar ordeal.

You can do it, and you can argue they should have had the foresight to do it, but you can't just snap your fingers and have it done.

(even then, supposing it was in place, you'd have to have the actual personnel and fire-fighting ability scaled up massively)

 

[Colonoscopy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/09/us/la-fire-department-budget-bass.html

Another example of resources probably not being anywhere what they need to be to fight a fire of this scale.

In November, Chief Crowley wrote a separate memo to the commission focusing on the bigger picture: a fire department that has not changed much in size since the 1960s despite the city’s population surging by more than a million people since then.

She wrote that the call volume rose by a factor of five between 1969 and 2023, but that the department had not been given the staffing and new fire stations it needs to respond effectively, and that response times were steadily increasing.

 

[BelemNole]

This is as specific as one needs to get: have freaking water available at every hydrant on day one. My God, what a Keystone Cops situation with firefighters running from empty hydrant to empty hydrant. No significant mismanagement there?

In 5, 10, 20 years, however long it takes to remedy the problem, you will have your specific answer. You'll have your eureka moment. Oh! That's what they should have done all those decades prior to 2025.

There was water available on day one. Are you suggesting that the county needs to build more water tanks to store water locally in case of a 1:1000 event? How many? How do you propose to pay for it?
Next. Please continue.

 

[BelemNole]

Fire hazard map for Cali.

Southern California has the highest concentration of the highest fire hazard zones in the state. Allowing people to build in these zones was a giant risk that was finally realized:

Experience

experience.arcgis.com

The red and the pink are the same level of threat - just different agencies responsible for managing that threat.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

There was water available on day one. Are you suggesting that the county needs to build more water tanks to store water locally in case of a 1:1000 event? How many? How do you propose to pay for it?
Next. Please continue.

If it's not accessible and not at the hydrant when it is cracked open for the first time then that is clearly mismanagement.

What of the Keystone Firefighters running from empty hydrant to empty hydrant? Excess firefighters? Should they have let more firefighters go?

Do you not think this is going to be fixed by competent folks? It will get done. Financing is something they will have to figure out. Maybe they'll also repriortize their budget along the way as well.

 

[DogBoyRy]

There was water available on day one. Are you suggesting that the county needs to build more water tanks to store water locally in case of a 1:1000 event? How many? How do you propose to pay for it?
Next. Please continue.

2-3 res plus pumps and tanks. Should have used the billions they wasted on high speed rail.

 

[Colonoscopy]

2-3 res plus pumps and tanks. Should have used the billions they wasted on high speed rail.

Likely reason they didn't is that this is an extremely rare event. (They didn't need that level of capacity otherwise)

That's how it always goes with natural disasters. Have to be smacked in the face before you equip yourself to handle these scenarios.

Not just natural disasters. Airline security was lax until we experienced hijackings.

There's a pattern.

 

[BelemNole]

If it's not accessible and not at the hydrant when it is cracked open for the first time then that is clearly mismanagement.

What of the Keystone Firefighters running from empty hydrant to empty hydrant? Excess firefighters? Should they have let more firefighters go?

Do you not think this is going to be fixed by competent folks? It will get done. Financing is something they will have to figure out. Maybe they'll also repriortize their budget along the way as well.

It was available when first opened. But the demand from multiple sources drained the millions of gallons in the tanks quickly and that caused a drop in pressure further up the hill.

So...again, what would you have done differently? You still haven't laid out your plan items. You're just repeating MAGA Facebook talking points.

 

[stillh8unlv]

If it's not accessible and not at the hydrant when it is cracked open for the first time then that is clearly mismanagement.

What of the Keystone Firefighters running from empty hydrant to empty hydrant? Excess firefighters? Should they have let more firefighters go?

Do you not think this is going to be fixed by competent folks? It will get done. Financing is something they will have to figure out. Maybe they'll also repriortize their budget along the way as well.

 

[SoonerBeAHawk]

They must have seen you approaching with your trousers dropped.

 

[Joes Place]

Do you think the Santa Ana wind season was a good time to take it offline?

Santa Ana wind season is typically Aug/Sept/Oct

Not December/January.