I think what hurt mostly from the 9-10 man rotations was they way Fran did it. Sort of platoon style. You should always have 3 starters on the court in my opinion. Just shuffle in a couple at a time. Although I think Fran maybe learned a little on this tho. Hope so.
"Much deeper rotation" indicated
- Thread starter T. Kimball
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Don't like this. I hope this is just talk. To win reach their highest level possible they need to play their best players the vast majority of minutes.
I would be shocked if Luka isn't around 35 MPG, Joe and CJ 30. I'd be even more shocked if any of the freshman play much. Perkins won't be needed at SG, and Josh and the Murray's won't be needed at C/PF with Nunge taking those other minutes over Connor/Garza. Maybe if Nunge isn't quite ready, then one or both of the Murray's would see more time. I could see Pat subbing in Joe minutes at the 3. The backcourt though, should be CJ/Jobo/Joe for about 70 of those 80 minutes. Maybe Uhlis is sprinkled in here and there when needed. Remember, that if our team is really this good, there might be games where we are bringing in subs much earlier than past years. Personally, I think this is just Fran making everyone happy right by saying the right things.
The B1G is going to be a grind. Lots of powerhouse teams. I think some of our substitutions have to be based on the players our opponents are putting on the floor at certain points in the game.
Or if we get into a situation where several of our bigs get into foul trouble and we are playing against a team that we can't go small ball against.
And I think that I just saw something that these winter students will get that free year.
IMHO, Garza logged too many minutes last season and consequently you saw his FT % drop. Would like to see him at 31-33 MPG.
OR if any of the kids come up sick or injured? That is what McC has talked about, how it is a damn good thing to have this much depth during a pandemic.
Exactly. We're supposed to have a top 10 team. Does anyone think we have 2 top 10 teams?
When you have studs, you have to leave them on the floor. If Garza, JW, Jbo, and Frederick are not playing big minutes it is only hurting the team. JT and CM are pretty good too, and often need big minutes. If the playing 10 is with getting mop up time, OK. Otherwise, find the 3 whom can be sprinkled in some to relieve the top five. Why do many of the powerhouse programs play 8? It is not because players 9&10 are not good.
Exactly, and it should be easy to keep 3 starters on the court at all times when you have 6 guys that have logged as many starting minutes as Iowa.
Yes. The message should be if you want to play regular minutes be good enough to be in the Top 8. If you're not, be ready to play if foul trouble or injuries occur and support a winning team. This is not a magical formula. Much better programs than Iowa get by playing 8 guys and playing good defense. This is big-boy basketball, there is no need to get 10-11 people in every game no matter what. Garza is one of the handful of best players in America. Play him as much as he can, probably 32 minutes, more against really good teams.
Frederick and Wieskamp are your other best players. They need to play as much as they can handle. Bohannon, Touissant and Conor need to play a bunch of minutes. There's not a lot of time for anyone else.
If any of the Freshman are good enough to earn minutes in the Top 8 of the rotation, that can likely only mean good things (assuming it's not do to injury or something unexpected). But if he is just playing the Freshman in the 9th, 10th, 11th slots to have a bigger rotation, I'm not a huge fan other than dealing with foul trouble or spot rest.
But if 1-2 of the Freshman are so impressive that they can crack the Top 8, that is a good sign and I am ok with playing 9-10 guys assuming our "known" Top 8 are all healthy and playing to their capabilities.
But if 1-2 of the Freshman are so impressive that they can crack the Top 8, that is a good sign and I am ok with playing 9-10 guys assuming our "known" Top 8 are all healthy and playing to their capabilities.
In the past, players 8+, probably shouldn't have been playing at a Big Ten school. Uhl, Dailey, Ellingson, Till and Pemsl come to mind as the latest. Now, players 8+ are going to be 4 star guys like Pat/Uhlis, so it changes just a bit.
A lot of teams don't try to run as much as we do. They can afford to play their starters more minutes. That said, I think that the Iowa players are generally pretty well conditioned and would play all 40 minutes if allowed.
We do have a couple 4* on the bench with Joe T and P Mac. Obviously they are going to play and we can exploit situations with their skills and athleticism. Someone has to play the 2-4 minutes Luka isn't on the floor and the first look goes to the other 6'11" center, Jack. Beyond those three, other than the minutes we will need with a more traditional 4 man, probably to be filled by a K, we should not be digging for ways to get the other guys floor time. The sense of an equitable distribution does not outweigh the need to win by keeping your best players on the floor the max minutes they can play.
Having said that, we also do appear to have more talent, if somewhat less experience, on the bench. One of the great things about the proliferation of video we actually get to see more of players than we used to and that provides the fans with sufficient commitment to join a message board much more information. Most of the guys in the catastrophic 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes did not look great on the much less video we had at the time. Uhl really showed few skills and Brady was obviously not athletic. Dale Jones and Isaiah looked good, and were good, although Dale's career was destroyed by injuries.. Wags, CW and Brandon all looked athletic but clearly all had major offensive limitations and that was apparent on their video. None of them but Isaiah and Dale looked ready to play P5 ball.
Not much film on Ogu but tons of video on the other freshmen. They all look athletic, Tony really looks athletic. Tony doesn't look like a great ball handler but he looks like an otherwise very good player. Ahron looks like a potentially outstanding point guard and definitely bigger than Jordan or Joey T. Both the Ks looked good in their game film and both showed a nose for the ball on rebounds. All moved way up the recruiting rankings and Tony and Ahron got some all state recognition. Forgot Ahron got a 4th star from Rivals, which is significant climb.
All four of those guys look like real players, that maybe need some experience and physical growth but good players with no major weaknesses. While not a fan of a long rotation I am a fan of a deep bench. I think any of the two Ks, Tony and Ahron could play some good ball if needed. Never felt that way about most of those other guys from the last class of mostly under the radar guys.
Having said that, we also do appear to have more talent, if somewhat less experience, on the bench. One of the great things about the proliferation of video we actually get to see more of players than we used to and that provides the fans with sufficient commitment to join a message board much more information. Most of the guys in the catastrophic 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes did not look great on the much less video we had at the time. Uhl really showed few skills and Brady was obviously not athletic. Dale Jones and Isaiah looked good, and were good, although Dale's career was destroyed by injuries.. Wags, CW and Brandon all looked athletic but clearly all had major offensive limitations and that was apparent on their video. None of them but Isaiah and Dale looked ready to play P5 ball.
Not much film on Ogu but tons of video on the other freshmen. They all look athletic, Tony really looks athletic. Tony doesn't look like a great ball handler but he looks like an otherwise very good player. Ahron looks like a potentially outstanding point guard and definitely bigger than Jordan or Joey T. Both the Ks looked good in their game film and both showed a nose for the ball on rebounds. All moved way up the recruiting rankings and Tony and Ahron got some all state recognition. Forgot Ahron got a 4th star from Rivals, which is significant climb.
All four of those guys look like real players, that maybe need some experience and physical growth but good players with no major weaknesses. While not a fan of a long rotation I am a fan of a deep bench. I think any of the two Ks, Tony and Ahron could play some good ball if needed. Never felt that way about most of those other guys from the last class of mostly under the radar guys.
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Without seeing the freshman in action on the court, it is really hard to gauge just how much they'll help this season. Most should probably redshirt, although the new "5th year" ruling makes it less necessary to do so. One thing about McCaffery though. Lately he has shown to have a quick hook for guys inserted into games that don't perform well. Having a deep bench should just encourage this practice.
I don’t know anything exact because I don’t ask my boys on specifics. They are both 6’8 and 220lbs and have been playing a lot at the 4 spot. During pre-practice, they both got work at the 3 and 5 spot. Believe rotations will vary based on opponent, foul trouble, Covid or injuries. To speculate who is going to play is a no win situation because there are more variables than usual. We needed depth last year, we have it this year. Even if they both get limited minutes, the valuable lessons they are learning from Luka, Jack, Joe W and Connor will be invaluable to their development. One thing to know is that my boys are team players and will earn anything they get. Go Hawks!
Kenyon, you were known as being salty on D. What do you make of the chances of an offensive powerhouse (such as Iowa's potential) making it to Final Four with a sub 70 or 80 defensive ranking? Is there reason to belive Iowa will be much higher than that defensively?
"They are both 6’8 and 220lbs and have been playing a lot at the 4 spot."
Hah! Been saying it since I watched their prep school video. Maybe we'll send 'em in waves but one or both Murray(s) is the only depth Iowa has as a traditional 4 player. There will be many times during the season we need a player like one or both the Murray boys to play a traditional forward role. They fit perfectly into team need this season.
Less experienced and probably not as strong as Cordell but the Ks bring athleticism and offensive punch that did not exist last season to a position where there appears to be no other known depth this season.
Hah! Been saying it since I watched their prep school video. Maybe we'll send 'em in waves but one or both Murray(s) is the only depth Iowa has as a traditional 4 player. There will be many times during the season we need a player like one or both the Murray boys to play a traditional forward role. They fit perfectly into team need this season.
Less experienced and probably not as strong as Cordell but the Ks bring athleticism and offensive punch that did not exist last season to a position where there appears to be no other known depth this season.
I do. Having Billy Taylor back is a definite boost to their defensive prowess. From what my boys have told me, they have a flexibility on defense that they haven’t had. They can be “long and big”, “small and quick” or a combination of both. They have the ability to change defenses 3+ times in one defensive sequence. They have always been good on offense, but their depth and commitment to defense is obvious from the reports I am getting.
Agree, somewhat. I wouldn't be as rigid as three starters at all times. But, the platooning strategy needs to go away.
No problem with 10 guys in a rotation. Doesn't mean all 10 see the floor every game. And of course minutes distribution will be widely variable.
Kenyon,
You have gotten to see a lot of basketball in your time. I am sure as a former player and the father of two current players it has got to be hard to be objective. I am curious though, how good do you think this team can be?
Is there anyone that your boys say, "man ______ is really good."
I think this team along with the roughly outlined schedule are simply going to be some of the best entertainment of my life time. As you can see, I have a hard time being objective also.
You have gotten to see a lot of basketball in your time. I am sure as a former player and the father of two current players it has got to be hard to be objective. I am curious though, how good do you think this team can be?
Is there anyone that your boys say, "man ______ is really good."
I think this team along with the roughly outlined schedule are simply going to be some of the best entertainment of my life time. As you can see, I have a hard time being objective also.
I thought the only reason Conner started and played so many minutes last year was because of injuries and lack of roster depth. It certainly wasn't because if his play making.
I think people might have some amnesia about his play last year...but he was not really very consistent nor anywhere near a play maker.
I'm hoping that he gets replaced as a starter and be somewhere in the 8-10 guy off bench rotation....I have doubts that Fran will do that, but if he is objective, he would and should.
I think people might have some amnesia about his play last year...but he was not really very consistent nor anywhere near a play maker.
I'm hoping that he gets replaced as a starter and be somewhere in the 8-10 guy off bench rotation....I have doubts that Fran will do that, but if he is objective, he would and should.
Bad take.
Maybe you are just trolling, maybe a McC hater, because that’s clearly not a legit opinion. That post is not just an opinion, it’s factually false...wrong.
Connor was number 1 in the NATION in assists to turnover margin. The team was clearly better when he was on the floor....so I’m not sure what the point of such a ridiculous post is.
If I missed the sarcasm I apologize.
I'm going to miss Cordell's toughness and what he brought physically inside, but what the Murray twins will bring is ability to space the floor better.
Often times last year when Garza, Wieskamp, and CJF were off the floor the offense could get stagnant. I don't see that this year, in fact I'd almost be giddy if we have Bohannon or CJF coming off the bench to lead the 2nd unit.
Team was better in some lineups/opponents. Connor is a role player, not like he is a star. He is a pretty good passer to Garza as a 2nd point guard on the court. If you put him out there without shooters/low post threat, then he is just another guy with below average offensive ability.
Looks like we're on the same page. I don't mind 10 deep as long as 9 and 10 are used in blowouts or if the game is still in doubt the best 8 best players are used in the right situations. Not a fan of platooning.
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
Cannot overlook Kreiner, yes he was more of a 4/5, but he brought athleticism, size, rebounding and pretty effective offensive game. Not a world beater but a high quality player for the Hawks. I certainly was a fan of Pemsl too and agree that the Murray twins (one is a 3/4 the other more of a stretch 4?) will bring an entirely different element.
The team took off last year once we went small, after Jack's injury. C Mac fills a very important role as a starter. He's tough, one of the better defenders. He makes few mistakes. He got his 3 pt % up to 34, which is adequate to minimize doubling Luka off him. C Mac does not need to be a great scorer. We start Luka, Joe W, CJ and Jordan. Scoring options will not be problem. C Mac gets the ball to the guys that can do something with it.
The role that Connor plays is very very important. As others have mentioned he is mentally tough and helps bring a confidence and competitive edge to the floor. In addition (rehashing stuff that everyone who watched last year knows) he is a coach on the floor. He keeps the ball moving and the team operating at ahigh level. Maybe as important as anything, when things aren’t going well, he settles the team down and orchestrates on both ends of the floor at vital times....I guess you can call that a role player, but it dramatically under sells what he does for the team.
In 2015-16 there were 5 superior players on the team. If you take out Woodbury, the other 4 starters played approximately 29 minutes per game. Our depth wasn't as good that year, but Fran knew we'd go as far as Gesell, Jok, Uthoff, Clemmons, and Woodbury would take us. This year we have 7 guys returning that have started, and some promising freshmen. Even though the freshmen can be brought along slowly, I think 2-3 might give us meaningful minutes, including P-Mac. Just going by their Sr seasons I really like Perkins and one of the twins as my favorites.
10 deep is a lot, but I really think our returning starters will play heavy minutes.
10 deep is a lot, but I really think our returning starters will play heavy minutes.
Kreiner became a much better player than I initially thought. He was a quality contributor and I could point to a few B1G games that they would not have won without him. Quality minutes that will need to be replaced.
Run the other teams with lack of depth to exhaustion with ball movement on offense and a high level of tenacity on defense.
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