Nelson is back

[DeangeloVickers]

There is communication and a plan put together, but very rarely is anybody told you will wrestle this weight.
A single example is Bartlett's freshman year (free Covid year). The staff wanted Beau to wrestle 149 and he wanted to challenge Nick Lee for the 141 spot. Beau unsuccessfully challenged Nick maintaining his 141 pound weight until the second half of the season when he finally stepped into the 149 spot.

Another example of allowing the athlete have a say is Mark Hall. Mark was supposed to redshirt his freshman year but towards the end of his first semester Mark started to push the issue of competing that year. Despite Cael's desire to redshirt Hall he allowed Hall to wrestle off against Morelli. Hall won that wrestle off by a point. Lost his first varsity match, which was in Carver yet won his only NCAA title that year.

The point of both examples is Cael's desires were set aside to meet the athlete's desires.

A third example is this year's Starocci situation. Starocci is going to compete for his 5th title. The question is at 174, 184 or 197. Cael suggested 197, which would be best for the team and allow Starocci to strength train putting on good weight through the season. However, if Carter adamantly decides he would rather wrestle 184 and he beats Barr the Carter will wrestle 184 despite Cael really wanting him to wrestle 197.

2 blue chip recruits and a guy going for title #5 having input on where they try and wrestle isn't what we're discussing here. And no one is suggesting athletes shouldn't have a say on where they wrestle. It should be a coordinated plan lead by the staff based on what's best for the team and the athlete.
Having 2-3 potential AAs wrestle off for one weight, while there's a gaping hole one weight class above, is mind numbingly stupid if your goal is to contend for a team title. This isn't hard.

 

[Libertylover]

2 blue chip recruits and a guy going for title #5 having input on where they try and wrestle isn't what we're discussing here. And no one is suggesting athletes shouldn't have a say on where they wrestle. It should be a coordinated plan lead by the staff based on what's best for the team and the athlete.
Having 2-3 potential AAs wrestle off for one weight, while there's a gaping hole one weight class above, is mind numbingly stupid if your goal is to contend for a team title. This isn't hard.

Agree with everyone saying this has to happen now, so the one bumping up can prepare in the weight room and training table, and the odd man out can decide if he wants to stay. It’s this mid season bump ups without prepping for the weight which drives us nuts. Cael lays this stuff out way ahead of time, like with Starr going up two weight classes. He has enough time to do it, that he can abandon the idea early enough to let Barr or the freshman prepare for 197. It’s all about planning and not recruiting all your best guys to 1-2 weight classes while you have 2-3 big holes to fill.

 

[JBJRFL]

Agree with everyone saying this has to happen now, so the one bumping up can prepare in the weight room and training table, and the odd man out can decide if he wants to stay. It’s this mid season bump ups without prepping for the weight which drives us nuts. Cael lays this stuff out way ahead of time, like with Starr going up two weight classes. He has enough time to do it, that he can abandon the idea early enough to let Barr or the freshman prepare for 197. It’s all about planning and not recruiting all your best guys to 1-2 weight classes while you have 2-3 big holes to fill.

You're beginning to sound like a PSU troll.

 

[tiltman]

You're beginning to sound like a PSU troll.

Is he wrong though; that it makes sense to wait till the middle of the season to have a guy try to put 10 lbs on and be competitive with the top 10 guys a weight class up?

 

[Pennstate1985]

Agree with everyone saying this has to happen now, so the one bumping up can prepare in the weight room and training table, and the odd man out can decide if he wants to stay. It’s this mid season bump ups without prepping for the weight which drives us nuts. Cael lays this stuff out way ahead of time, like with Starr going up two weight classes. He has enough time to do it, that he can abandon the idea early enough to let Barr or the freshman prepare for 197. It’s all about planning and not recruiting all your best guys to 1-2 weight classes while you have 2-3 big holes to fill.

If's not even that difficult. Those guys know what their best weight is, and they also know if they can beat the competition at their preferred weight. If they can't beat the competition at their preferred weight, they need to discuss with the coaches and find an alternative. If they can't discern if they can beat someone, then the coach needs to make them see the light. It's a give and take that happens in June and not December. Brands has been to this rodeo before. I'm sure these discussions are being had.

 

[Libertylover]

You're beginning to sound like a PSU troll.

Sometimes you have to swollow your pride and learn from those having success in all aspects of life, not just wrestling . No need to always try to reinvent the wheel. I wouldn’t root for PSU if I had a loaded gun in my mouth. I’m sure Taylor is going to model the oky st program after everything he learned at PSU. I thought the big frustration with TnT is their stubbornness about change and learning from other successful programs.

 

[JBJRFL]

Is he wrong though; that it makes sense to wait till the middle of the season to have a guy try to put 10 lbs on and be competitive with the top 10 guys a weight class up?

He is wrong about the " Cael is so wonderful, he is such a good planner, nobody is close to Mr Great" part.

 

[smalls103]

Not when none of them prepared in the off season to wrestle 184. This isn't high school. Guys can't just bump up a 10lb weight class at the start of the season and expect to have championship level success.

Kasak moved up a weight mid season and took 3rd. Mesenbrink was a tweener and took 2nd. in '23 Bernie was at 197 and took 4th.

PK was a bumped up 165 and did fine prior to final weekend.

it's been less than 90 days since the end of the season. there's over 5 months till the first date of competition and over 9 months till B1G's

bottom line is this -
What would expect Gabe/PK to place at 174?
What would you expect Nelson to take at 184?

Now combine those totals.

vs.

What would expect Nelson to place at 174?
What would you expect Gabe/PK to take at 184?

Now combine those totals.

What's the difference in points between both scenarios?

You make it seem drastic and I'm I don't think that's the case.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

Kasak moved up a weight mid season and took 3rd. Mesenbrink was a tweener and took 2nd. in '23 Bernie was at 197 and took 4th.

PK was a bumped up 165 and did fine prior to final weekend.

it's been less than 90 days since the end of the season. there's over 5 months till the first date of competition and over 9 months till B1G's

bottom line is this -
What would expect Gabe/PK to place at 174?
What would you expect Nelson to take at 184?

Now combine those totals.

vs.

What would expect Nelson to place at 174?
What would you expect Gabe/PK to take at 184?

Now combine those totals.

What's the difference in points between both scenarios?

You make it seem drastic and I'm I don't think that's the case.

Here's what I can guarantee, the combined totals between 174 and 184 will be higher if one of them actually prepares to wrestle 184 in the off season vs figuring it out in Oct/Nov. Arguing anything different is just plain dumb.

 

[12tdsaw]

saying it over and over and over, dumb

 

[AFHawk86]

saying it over and over and over, persistent

 

[smalls103]

Here's what I can guarantee, the combined totals between 174 and 184 will be higher if one of them actually prepares to wrestle 184 in the off season vs figuring it out in Oct/Nov. Arguing anything different is just plain dumb.

that's the fairest thing you've said so far.

however 1) idk that that's true (no one does) 2) if it is, how drastic/difference making is that margin 3) there's plenty of time to still prepare.

there's no way you can say with a straight face/clear conscience that Nelson declaring he wants to go 174 in early June cost the team anything.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

that's the fairest thing you've said so far.

however 1) idk that that's true (no one does) 2) if it is, how drastic/difference making is that margin 3) there's plenty of time to still prepare.

there's no way you can say with a straight face/clear conscience that Nelson declaring he wants to go 174 in early June cost the team anything.

I 100% can, and anyone with common sense can see you're hanging on to a losing argument now.
Nelson prepping now thru the start of season to go 184 would outperform any of them trying to bump up starting in Dec/Jan.

 

[smalls103]

Me: "there's no way you can say with a straight face/clear conscience that Nelson declaring he wants to go 174 in early June cost the team anything"

DV: "I 100% can"

ok, so what did it cost the team? i asked you multiple times what the point differential is.

 

[Gabe582]

Me: "there's no way you can say with a straight face/clear conscience that Nelson declaring he wants to go 174 in early June cost the team anything"

DV: "I 100% can"

ok, so what did it cost the team? i asked you multiple times what the point differential is.

I think it is too early to tell differential in team points until we see if whoever goes 184 will be sized to compete at peak performance at that weight. Those advocating for the decision to occur early as possible I'm sure are just hoping to not have it drag out like in years past so quality weight can be gained/loss that won't curtail performance.

Those 10 lbs between weight classes ain't just a couple extra sips of gatorade and if converted into real quality muscle, can have a big impact.

I remember when Gambrall had the concussion issues and went up weight classes late and was consistently undersized, it definitely impacted his abilities and limited what he could do against the larger opponents and was forced to just try and steal a takedown at the end and avoid getting on bottom.

Letting guys chase their desired weights is the Iowa way and I don't think anyone is advocating for the coaches to assign weight classes, but just hoping for a decision earlier than later so proper weight gain/loss can occur.