This is so true - how good must life be for the average american for these issues to consume so much of their time.When I see outrage about something new EVERYDAY like this... I can't help but think that things in the USA must be pretty cushy for many people. They have time to be concerned with EVERYTHING.
Our great grandparents were busting their a$$es to make a living. Not sitting on twitter all day.
I'm guilty of this by posting in this cesspool too
Netflix's support of Dave Chappelle is setting a dangerous precedent. Here's why.
- Thread starter z_ape
- Start date
Have to? They don't have to. Who is making them? They choose to. Just as people choose to watch it or don't watch it. Just as people choose to be offended or realize it's just a comedian doing a bit.
This is just the modern day version of book burning. You want to get rid of all copies of Mein Kampf because some idiot might read it and really like what Hitler wrote. I'm happy to be on the other side. the side that allows people to make their own decisions on what they take in for entertainment or knowledge or just to look at the pretty pictures.
Hooiser - I haven't watched it. Basically he is poking fun but also putting out some harsh truths. Daphne Dorman received a lot of backlash for her relationship with and supporting Dave Chappelle. In a way she was ate by her own and couldn't handle the pressure. There was likely more to it that that. Dave has continued to support the family and even came out saying she was in his tribe, not the trans tribe especially after how she was treated and that the trans group then tried to state Chappelle was the cause of her death. He is stating all oppression is inappropriate. We shouldn't go after each others or other groups here is two quotes from the sisters of Daphne.
“Daphne was in awe of Dave’s graciousness,” Dorman’s sister Becky wrote in a text. “She did not find his jokes rude, crude, off-coloring, off-putting, anything. She thought his jokes were funny. Daphne understood humor and comedy—she was not offended. Why would her family be offended?”
“Dave loved my sister and is an LGBTQ ally,” Dorman’s younger sister Brandy added in a text message. “His entire set was begging to end this very situation.”
“At this point I feel like he poured his heart out in that special and no one noticed,” Brandy wrote in a separate Facebook post. “What he’s saying to the LGBTQ family is, ‘I see you. Do you see me? I’m mourning my friend in the best way I know how. Can you see me? Can you allow me that?’... This was a call to come together, that two oppressed factions of our nation put down their keyboards and make peace. How sad that this message was lost in translation.”
The quotes were taking from the daily beast article below.
Dave Chappelle Backed by Family of Late Transgender Comic Daphne Dorman
The family of Daphne Dorman, the late transgender comedian who Dave Chappelle highlights in his new Netflix special “The Closer,” say he’s an LGBTQ ally and meant the world to her.
www.thedailybeast.com
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If you watched the show before the outrage, and the whole bit- he was being very clear. All hate is bad, people should be kind, and the *vocal trans community is aggressive when anyone mentions them.
His story about Daphne was authentic I felt, and he’s getting shit on for a line here or there.
His story about Daphne was authentic I felt, and he’s getting shit on for a line here or there.
Ultimately he is also proving a point, the trans community tends to get upset and enforce their territory whenever they feel they are being singled out. You won't here them admit that ultimately they were the ones that oppressed Daphne and tried to blame Chappelle for it afterward. However, as much as Chappelle was given a platform, so is the trans community. More than anything I think the outrage is over Daphne and they don't like getting semi called out for her and that the outrage is from past jokes and comments, not so much the closer.
It is similar to the quote the other day that the Deere workers are upset the CEO got a 160% raise this year and that is part of the reason they are striking. Okay let look at this argument may was offered the position at an extremely low CEO pay previously taking over in 2019- it was his CFO pay. Allen was making $22 million a year before he retired. In 2019 May was making 6 million and some change a year. That wage continued until this year when they bumped him to his CEO pay of $14.7 million. Yeah its a fun talking point and boy you hear the 160% and say heck yeah the deere workers are getting screwed, they should be getting more of the pie. Ultimately when you look at the facts its not the picture that was originally described. Do you realize the main thing they are fighting over is essentially they want a pension and Deere says its a no go. Obviously its a no go, no company can support a pension anymore. They will end up with a little more pay than the 20 percent raise that was already offered and some additional safety measures, maybe 1-2% more retirement benefits. That is it.
Well, that was artfully dodged. Would you care to try again? A simple yes or no will suffice. The question is whether Netflix is engaging in censorship if they refuse to air that content. Think you could answer on point?
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As a brother to a gay man and a friend to many in the LGBTQ community, and good friends with a trans person, maybe this will help… there is a very very strong prevalence of trauma—especially for trans—and the typical mental stuff associated (PTSD being a common one; anxiety; depresion). Disacceptance is a major hurdle. Many don’t clear it.
Anyways, to relate to another group that commonly suffers from trauma-related mental illnesses—imagine a comedian making jokes at the expense of combat veterans. As suicide rates show no sign of slowing… jokes. As violence against vets remains rampant… more jokes.
I love Chappelle and don’t want him canceled one iota. But that doesn’t mean his words can’t be scrutinized. Strongly. There is an in-between.
Anyways, to relate to another group that commonly suffers from trauma-related mental illnesses—imagine a comedian making jokes at the expense of combat veterans. As suicide rates show no sign of slowing… jokes. As violence against vets remains rampant… more jokes.
I love Chappelle and don’t want him canceled one iota. But that doesn’t mean his words can’t be scrutinized. Strongly. There is an in-between.
So it isn't censorship. Which means if they choose to drop Chappelle, it isn't censorship. If they decide his commentary doesn't meet their standards based on community feedback, they can refuse to air it...and it isn't censorship. So let's stop using that word.
Or apply it uniformly.
Either way works.
I seriously believe she’s trying to prevent millions of people from hearing him freely speak his mind.
I have no concern with her freely speaking against Chappelle and his viewpoint. I have a serious problem with her trying to organize an effort to make his viewpoint unavailable to people who do want it.
Her stated goal is that his viewpoint isn’t available.
Her goal isn’t to offer counterpoint. It’s to disappear the viewpoint she doesn’t like.
If the censorious mob gets their way, and Chappelle is shut down, why don’t you want to give the mob any credit for their accomplishment?
The original question was not directed at me. I am asking a new line of questioning which is: Do only people from that group laugh at Chappelle? Or does laughing at him auto-enroll you into those groups?
Truthfully, I dont care about the answer. I am simply trying to wrap my head around your judgemental brain.
So...she's not free to organize and lobby a private enterprise to remove what she considers hate speech? You sure that's your stance? And understand, it matters not one bit whether or not YOU agree with her stance. The only thing that matters is if you think she has that right.
So - again - are you in favor of Netflix carrying ANY content? You haven't addressed that question. Is there content that YOU would be so aggrieved to see on there that you would advocate for it's removal? More importantly, if, for example, they refused to air white supremacist content, would you lobby them to reverse that decision?
Is it only "censorious" when it's content you think they should air? Is it "censorious" if it's content you think poses a danger?
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The question posed has absolutely not one thing to do with your scenario. What you're trying to shoehorn in was never even suggested. Not even remotely. YOU jumped to a judgement that was so completely off the mark that it calls your comprehension into question. FTR, the question was about exactly what constitutes "censorship". Go back and read the question again and see if makes sense to you now. Better yet, continue to not care. It might be what you're best at.
🤦♂️
Lets rephrase and try this again: You asked, "should Netflix have to carry someone who tells explicitly racist, homophobic, misogynistic jokes that have the incels and the KKK and the Proud Boys and all the other white nationalists laughing their asses off?"
So now im asking you: Does laughing at Dave's joke then turn you into a member of one (or more) of those groups you mentioned if you previously weren't? Do all members of those groups laugh at Chappelle? If you dont laugh at him, does that automatically preclude you from being a member in any of those groups?
Holy shit...could you stop conflating "someone" with Chappelle. Your idiotic take is...idiotic. Try quoting the whole post next time. Once again - for those with deficiencies in comprehension - the question is whether or not Netflix refusing to air that "someone" constitutes censorship since the claim is that Neflix refusing to air Chappelle IS censorship. So...is it or is it not? Are they both censorship? Are neither censorship? Is one but not the other censorship? If your answer is #3, you'll be asked for an explanation.
It's such a simple question.
You're right, it is a simple question, im not sure why you wont answer it, but ill replace Chappelle w/ "someone" and see if you'll answer:
Does laughing at "someone who tells those jokes" then turn you into a member of one (or more) of those groups you mentioned if you previously weren't? Do all members of those groups laugh at "someone who tells those jokess"? If you dont laugh at "someone who tells those jokes", does that automatically preclude you from being a member in any of those groups?
Damn...you started drinking early. Lay off before five. It's either that or you're simply too simple to comprehend the hypothetical posed. Not one single letter that you typed has any bearing at all on the OP you fail to understand. Given that you seem incapable of responding coherently, you're dismissed with prejudice.
Thats correct, because im not referring to the OP at all. Im simply asking you to expound on and clarify your judgemental statement. Not sure why you're having such a hard time understanding the distinction.
Ugh! Note to self ... remember all those other times you formed your opinion based on incomplete information and felt the worse for it? Don't do it! The show is ... as always ... fabulous.
Dave doesn't punch down, he doesn't punch up, he punches lines ... and he's a master of his craft. Watch the show ... it's a work of art. He went all the way.
Tell me what is the difference what Chappelle is doing vs. what Mark Twain did in his books. I like this line on Mark Twains wikipedia page:
"Twain began his career writing light, humorous verse, but he became a chronicler of the vanities, hypocrisies, and murderous acts of mankind."
We have to be willing to listen and understand. The jokes were sidebars for the actual conversation. As much as you want to say put the average joe in there, the average joe isn't getting paid $100 per a ticket to do a comedy show. You may disagree with Chappelle's views or points, but ultimately the closer isn't the transphobic rant that it is currently being parlayed as.
I definitely understand Rudolphs viewpoint and there is no doubt that many suffer from insecurities and depression in the LGBTQ. However, this is also a point on how they treated Daphne Dorman. Just as much as they don't want to be punched down on, they punched down on her. They didn't appreciate her viewpoints and lit up the exact insecurities and depression that Rudolph mentioned. Look I admit Chappelle's commentary is borderline, at the same token he brings up valid points in Comedy Routine. The fact that he can still get people to talk about his show days after, points to the fact that he has hit a nerve. But what exactly is the LGBTQ community trying to achieve by having Netflix remove this Special? There is nothing that really hits below the belt here, it is more they are being hyper sensitive (maybe warranted) and want to go after someone who they think doesn't understand them.
I’m ok with that. To me Censorship would be if they kept it and bleeped all of the “offensive” content.
Saying “I won’t distribute that” isn’t censorship.
Saying, “You won’t distribute that, or else” is censorship.
The censors want to control the actions of others.
Does that make the distinction clear?
She’s free to don a hood and burn a cross, and I’m free to call her a racist.
She’s free to call for censorship of content she wishes didn’t exist, and I’m free to call her a censorious twat.
My stance is opposed to the cross burners and book burners.
I support freedom of speech, so the mere existence of their views isn’t something I’d seek to suppress.
I’d rather point out the failings of their ideas and mock them than try to suppress them from the minds of others.
The same can not be said of the censorious mob. Especially when it feels mocked.
Well, yes, of course that would be censorship since it’s based on political content.
If they suppressed the content and used their ownership of the content to prevent it being screened anyplace else, it would be censorship. If they returned ownership to Chappell (or his producers), I don't see how it could be deemed censorship.
This thread badly needs a poll ... and anyone that hasn't seen the actual show should be gently 'censored' from commenting on it.
Censorship doesn’t have to be universal. If they choose not to show content based purely on political consideration, that is censorship.
If I try to use whatever power I have to suppress content I find unacceptable what am I doing? What do you call it?
Our language has a word for it.
cen·sorship
/ˈsensərSHip/
noun
- the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.
I thought that was called 'canceling'. Happens all the time ... but what do I know.
Chapelle is funny and thought provoking. When society finally gets a comedian all approve of they undoubtedly won’t be funny.
I didn't think special was overly funny,, and I don't thin all the trans content was terribly insightful. (then again I don't turn to comedians for this stuff)
But I think the special was really useful and absolutely shouldn't be censored because it was simply too harmful to trans lives. The trans bloc of activists totally overplay the harm card. It has its place, but they've weaponized it and as a result just own anybody very politically left and or empathetic enough. But make no mistake, they use that harm card to get away with bullshit behavior and argument - they can''t win otherwise.
And since the trans activists have little criticicsm within their own ranks -- and ignore outside criticism as their insulated little silo allows -- they needed this smack in the face.
Glad Chappelle could deliver.
But I think the special was really useful and absolutely shouldn't be censored because it was simply too harmful to trans lives. The trans bloc of activists totally overplay the harm card. It has its place, but they've weaponized it and as a result just own anybody very politically left and or empathetic enough. But make no mistake, they use that harm card to get away with bullshit behavior and argument - they can''t win otherwise.
And since the trans activists have little criticicsm within their own ranks -- and ignore outside criticism as their insulated little silo allows -- they needed this smack in the face.
Glad Chappelle could deliver.
