****Official Cubs 2015 Thread****
- Thread starter dgordo
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anon_snp6dc585nnj4
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Congrats to the Cubs, they earned it.
The series against St. Louis, Cubs and Cards fans will remember it the rest of their lives. We Cubs and Cards fans just got our dream series.
And as far as the hit batters...yes, Jake got plunked deliberately by the pitcher (not "ordered" by Hurdle)...but again, as with the Cards series...Jake was up and in with both his HBP's. The message being sent is not that they hit Pirates, but where they hit them. You don't mess with players' heads, even by accident.
A punk Pirate move would have been to earhole Jake...he got plunked in the hip. Big difference. Next time, take your base.
The series against St. Louis, Cubs and Cards fans will remember it the rest of their lives. We Cubs and Cards fans just got our dream series.
And as far as the hit batters...yes, Jake got plunked deliberately by the pitcher (not "ordered" by Hurdle)...but again, as with the Cards series...Jake was up and in with both his HBP's. The message being sent is not that they hit Pirates, but where they hit them. You don't mess with players' heads, even by accident.
A punk Pirate move would have been to earhole Jake...he got plunked in the hip. Big difference. Next time, take your base.
He didn't get the part as an extra in the next movie about wars in the Middle East? Just a guess. Dude looks like a terrorist.
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anon_snp6dc585nnj4
Guest
Yes and no. Had he hit them both with fastballs, that's one thing, but he didn't, the second was a slider. And you don't retaliate by hitting the pitcher-- he went through two batters he could have retaliated against and then hit the pitcher.
I agree, it was silliness on both sides. But it was very predictable too. I told my buddy while we were watching, after the 2nd HBP by Arrieta...if he bats again in this game, he's getting plunked.
Jake's mistake was simple. Go to 1B.
Jake's mistake was simple. Go to 1B.
Nice to have the bean ball police back in the thread. aka bagdropper. #Cardinalway
It's OK to pitch up and in (the Cards and Pirates know this) - and Bosio, that strategy is coming from him. The problem apparently is, the Cubs pitchers suck at doing it. They are therefore getting retaliated for it.
Now if both St. Louis and Pittsburgh had gone headhunting, then I'll believe you. If you can't figure out that retailiating by hitting a guy in the ass or calf is a measured response to the Cubs not knowing how to pitch high and tight...then you don't know a lot about baseball.
Madden can cry all he wants about Matheny being Tony Soprano and all that crap, but his tirade during that series was for HIS team, not St. Louis - which tells me he believed his players needed to hear that. Madden knew exactly why it happened in both cases, his players getting hit where they got hit in retaliation...that's the dirty secret in all this.
"We know we can beat them, they know we can beat them, they know we know we can beat them"...that can't be for ANYBODY else than his own team.
I'm not saying this is OK to do or is right...I'm saying that's why it happened the way it happened in both instances. If you're going to pitch up and in, you damn well better be pretty good at it cause if you buzz the tower badly, you're going to get one of your guys plunked in retaliation.
Now if both St. Louis and Pittsburgh had gone headhunting, then I'll believe you. If you can't figure out that retailiating by hitting a guy in the ass or calf is a measured response to the Cubs not knowing how to pitch high and tight...then you don't know a lot about baseball.
Madden can cry all he wants about Matheny being Tony Soprano and all that crap, but his tirade during that series was for HIS team, not St. Louis - which tells me he believed his players needed to hear that. Madden knew exactly why it happened in both cases, his players getting hit where they got hit in retaliation...that's the dirty secret in all this.
"We know we can beat them, they know we can beat them, they know we know we can beat them"...that can't be for ANYBODY else than his own team.
I'm not saying this is OK to do or is right...I'm saying that's why it happened the way it happened in both instances. If you're going to pitch up and in, you damn well better be pretty good at it cause if you buzz the tower badly, you're going to get one of your guys plunked in retaliation.
Biggest downside of not winning the division, is that now Cubs only get to use Arrieta once in this series.
Cubs really need to win the Lester/Lackey matchup as the Hendricks/Wacha matchup is not favorable.
Cubs really need to win the Lester/Lackey matchup as the Hendricks/Wacha matchup is not favorable.
I believe hendricks has a similar era vs st louis compared to wacha vs chicago this year?
Cubs have def hit Wacha well the last 2 outings. But still, I will rather have Wacha
Iowa native Tony Watson found himself in the middle of a skirmish and the center of attention in one of baseball’s biggest games.
The former Dallas Center-Grimes and current Pittsburgh Pirates reliever ignited a bench-clearing incident in the seventh-inning of Wednesday’s National League Wild Card game with the Chicago Cubs.
Benches and bullpens from both teams emptied in the seventh inning when Watson plunked Chicago pitcher Jake Arrieta with a pitch. Watson and Arrieta appeared to share words near home plate.
Was Watson retaliating for Arrieta hitting two Pirates hitters? After the game, Watson didn't appear to deny hitting Arrieta intentionally.
“You never want to intentionally hurt a guy, especially a guy like (Arrieta, who’s) out there having a historical second half and having a great season,” Watson told reporters after the game. “So the butt’s perfect.”
Watson said that the Pirates were upset when Arrieta hit Francisco Cervelli with a high pitch in the fifth inning.
“Intent or not, anything up near the head, we don’t like that,” Watson said. “Neither team likes that.”
Arrieta wasn't surprised at the retaliation.
“I expected that,” Arrieta told reporters after the game. “They’re going to take care of their own guys. It’s understandable. Everything after that was fine.”
Eric Wolfe (in white jersey) of Des Moines, Iowa, leads a cheer of more than 1,100 Chicago Cubs fans in at Principal Park in Des Moines as the Cubs defeated Pittsburg on Wednesday, Oct. 7, 2015. Bryon Houlgrave, The Register
It’s not the first time Watson has caused tempers to flare this season. The left-handed reliever caused the benches to empty during an Aug. 2 game with the Cincinnati Reds when he plunked Brandon Phillips with a 94-mph pitch.
Watson, 30, was a star at Dallas Center-Grimes before moving on to play baseball at Nebraska. He made his big-league debut with the Pirates in 2011 and has become a mainstay in the team’s bullpen appearing in more than 300 games.
He had a breakout season in 2014 when he went 10-2 with a 1.63 ERA in 78 games and earned spot in the Major League Baseball All-Star Game.
“It doesn’t feel like 300 at all,” Watson said in an interview with The Register in August. “I mean, I remember my first one. It doesn’t seem like that long ago.”
His appearance Wednesday is something many fans, especially Cub fans, will remember for a long, long time. Watson and Arrieta stayed in the game. The lone ejection was Pittsburgh’s Sean Rodriguez who cameras caught taking out his frustration from an altercation during the benches clearing on a cooler.
“Everyone wants to win,” Watson said. “That’s their guy, and they got his back. Everybody’s got everybody’s back in these situations.”
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...nter-chicago-pittsburgh-pirates-mlb/73580036/
The former Dallas Center-Grimes and current Pittsburgh Pirates reliever ignited a bench-clearing incident in the seventh-inning of Wednesday’s National League Wild Card game with the Chicago Cubs.
Benches and bullpens from both teams emptied in the seventh inning when Watson plunked Chicago pitcher Jake Arrieta with a pitch. Watson and Arrieta appeared to share words near home plate.
Was Watson retaliating for Arrieta hitting two Pirates hitters? After the game, Watson didn't appear to deny hitting Arrieta intentionally.
“You never want to intentionally hurt a guy, especially a guy like (Arrieta, who’s) out there having a historical second half and having a great season,” Watson told reporters after the game. “So the butt’s perfect.”
Watson said that the Pirates were upset when Arrieta hit Francisco Cervelli with a high pitch in the fifth inning.
“Intent or not, anything up near the head, we don’t like that,” Watson said. “Neither team likes that.”
Arrieta wasn't surprised at the retaliation.
“I expected that,” Arrieta told reporters after the game. “They’re going to take care of their own guys. It’s understandable. Everything after that was fine.”
Eric Wolfe (in white jersey) of Des Moines, Iowa, leads a cheer of more than 1,100 Chicago Cubs fans in at Principal Park in Des Moines as the Cubs defeated Pittsburg on Wednesday, Oct. 7, 2015. Bryon Houlgrave, The Register
It’s not the first time Watson has caused tempers to flare this season. The left-handed reliever caused the benches to empty during an Aug. 2 game with the Cincinnati Reds when he plunked Brandon Phillips with a 94-mph pitch.
Watson, 30, was a star at Dallas Center-Grimes before moving on to play baseball at Nebraska. He made his big-league debut with the Pirates in 2011 and has become a mainstay in the team’s bullpen appearing in more than 300 games.
He had a breakout season in 2014 when he went 10-2 with a 1.63 ERA in 78 games and earned spot in the Major League Baseball All-Star Game.
“It doesn’t feel like 300 at all,” Watson said in an interview with The Register in August. “I mean, I remember my first one. It doesn’t seem like that long ago.”
His appearance Wednesday is something many fans, especially Cub fans, will remember for a long, long time. Watson and Arrieta stayed in the game. The lone ejection was Pittsburgh’s Sean Rodriguez who cameras caught taking out his frustration from an altercation during the benches clearing on a cooler.
“Everyone wants to win,” Watson said. “That’s their guy, and they got his back. Everybody’s got everybody’s back in these situations.”
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...nter-chicago-pittsburgh-pirates-mlb/73580036/
The whole "intent or not" line that people keep using after incidents like these doesn't make any sense to me. Intent should always matter.
I know. It's all so childish. "Well, we know it was unintentional, but it was up near the head so we have no choice but to throw at them now to protect our guys." Yes, nothing screams "protect our guys" like escalating a situation from an unintentional mistake into a bench clearing brawl (and likely more pitches being thrown at players from both teams now to boot).
Manager Joe Maddon doesn't anticipate any significant changes when the Cubs release their National League Division Series roster Friday morning, but the announcement of Kyle Hendricks as the Game 2 starter over veteran Jason Hammel ranks as a minor surprise.
"(He) has been very sharp, Maddon said Thursday of Hendricks, who pitched 12 consecutive scoreless innings over his last two starts. "The fact he could put the ball on the ground matters a lot, too, and keeping the ball out of the air."
Hammel will be available in relief for the first two games. If Hammel doesn't pitch in either of those, it's likely he will start Game 4, if necessary.
Jake Arrieta, as expected, will start Game 3 at Wrigley Field.
Pedro puzzled: The NLDS marks a chance for Pedro Strop to overcome past struggles at Busch Stadium, where he has allowed seven runs in five appearances covering only two innings.
"I don't have anything specific," Strop said. "It could be just a coincidence. When I struggle, most of the time it has been here. I'm not thinking about it."
Strop is one of the more emotional Cubs players but knows there's a balance in the postseason.
"You have to be able to control the moment, the excitement, because you do get more excited," Strop said. "You have to know how to use it to your advantage instead of rushing everything.
Pitching inside: One day after Arrieta was hit intentionally by a pitch that caused both benches to empty, Cardinals Game 1 starter John Lackey stressed he would continue to pitch inside.
"I think everybody, even on their side, knows I'm not going to back off coming inside," Lackey said. "I think I have enough of a reputation. They know what time it is."
Extra innings: Shortstop Addison Russell said his left hand feels fine after jamming it on a slide into second base Wednesday. … As the minor-league coordinator for the Angels in the 1980s, Maddon said he once had a Weimaraner dog race speedy outfielder Devon White. "The dog did win," Maddon said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...s-cubs-cardinals-spt-1009-20151008-story.html
"(He) has been very sharp, Maddon said Thursday of Hendricks, who pitched 12 consecutive scoreless innings over his last two starts. "The fact he could put the ball on the ground matters a lot, too, and keeping the ball out of the air."
Hammel will be available in relief for the first two games. If Hammel doesn't pitch in either of those, it's likely he will start Game 4, if necessary.
Jake Arrieta, as expected, will start Game 3 at Wrigley Field.
Pedro puzzled: The NLDS marks a chance for Pedro Strop to overcome past struggles at Busch Stadium, where he has allowed seven runs in five appearances covering only two innings.
"I don't have anything specific," Strop said. "It could be just a coincidence. When I struggle, most of the time it has been here. I'm not thinking about it."
Strop is one of the more emotional Cubs players but knows there's a balance in the postseason.
"You have to be able to control the moment, the excitement, because you do get more excited," Strop said. "You have to know how to use it to your advantage instead of rushing everything.
Pitching inside: One day after Arrieta was hit intentionally by a pitch that caused both benches to empty, Cardinals Game 1 starter John Lackey stressed he would continue to pitch inside.
"I think everybody, even on their side, knows I'm not going to back off coming inside," Lackey said. "I think I have enough of a reputation. They know what time it is."
Extra innings: Shortstop Addison Russell said his left hand feels fine after jamming it on a slide into second base Wednesday. … As the minor-league coordinator for the Angels in the 1980s, Maddon said he once had a Weimaraner dog race speedy outfielder Devon White. "The dog did win," Maddon said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...s-cubs-cardinals-spt-1009-20151008-story.html
Look folks...I'm not saying it's right, the retaliations.
I'm saying it shouldn't ever be a surpise when it happens. Notice there is no hue and cry about it from other players, managers, etc...
I'm saying it shouldn't ever be a surpise when it happens. Notice there is no hue and cry about it from other players, managers, etc...
Unless things really get heated, I don't think you'll see a lot of extra curriculars in this series. You can't risk getting guys hurt or suspended from fights during the playoffs. At worst, we could see a bench clearing "discussion" type fight. If there's anything truly worthy of retaliation it will likely stew over the off-season and show up next April. Matheny and Maddon are both smart guys and they'll have their teams playing smart. Not sure either team has a headcase like that moron with the Pirates.
My assumption is Kyle H. will be on a rather short leash and if he does get in trouble, Hammel will come in. Not sure they are starting him Game 4 unless Lester isn't comfortable with 3 days rest.
Agreed. Hammel/Wood/ Cahill will be ready to go early in game 2 if necassary.
I was talking to my buddy about game 4 yesterday and I came to the conclusion that Lester must start. The Cubs will either be up 2-1 or down 2-1. If it is an elimination game you have to throw him. If you are up 2-1 you have to do everything in your power to win the series. The last thing you want to do is send the series back to St Louis for Game 5
And, the asset acquisition continues. The Score is reporting the Cubs landed Eddy Julio Martinez of Cuba. A very nice OF prospect. Throw him in with the massive haul in the IFA and Theo, Jed, and Jason are still working hard to pull in as much talent as possible into the system.
Also, it's very nice that management knew they could outbid the Giants with the support of the Rickett's family.
Also, it's very nice that management knew they could outbid the Giants with the support of the Rickett's family.
I'm sure he will be on a short leash, but I get the move. He's thrown much better down the stretch than Hammel has, even if a couple of those starts were against bad teams. Hopefully he's coming in confident and hopefully the Cubs can get a Game 1 win tonight to take a little of the pressure off.
As for Game 4, if needed, I assume they'd go with Hammel if they're up 2-1, but might consider Lester on short rest if they're down 2-1. Or, just go Hammel and have an exceedingly short leash with Lester maybe prepping to potentially go in early.
Yeah he looked like he really understood being hit when he stopped in the baseline and started yelling at Watson. And players always tell the media exactly how they feel...
Essentially Coghlan in for LaStella today, with Bryant shifting back to 3rd.
Fowler CF
Schwarber RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Castro 2B
Coghlan LF
Russell SS
Ross C
Lester P
Yadier Molina is in the lineup for STL.
Carpenter 3B
Piscotty 1B
Holliday LF
Heyward CF
Peralta SS
Grichuk RF
Molina C
Wong 2B
Lackey P
Fowler CF
Schwarber RF
Bryant 3B
Rizzo 1B
Castro 2B
Coghlan LF
Russell SS
Ross C
Lester P
Yadier Molina is in the lineup for STL.
Carpenter 3B
Piscotty 1B
Holliday LF
Heyward CF
Peralta SS
Grichuk RF
Molina C
Wong 2B
Lackey P
Read a story on this guy on ESPN or MLB and they were saying the $3mil, from a scouting perspective anyway, was a steal for this guy. Some scouts believe he would be the #1 pick in the Rule 4 draft if he could have entered next year. Great pick up if the scouting is accurate.
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anon_snp6dc585nnj4
Guest
Cubs likely lose either way, but I think we saw tonight why an electronic strike zone is needed in baseball. You can't trust human umpires to get it right. Some, like the blue tonight, call a strike 3 inches off the plate and 2 inches inside nearly every other at bat. It has to stop.
I think you could say the same thing about the game against the pirates Wednesday night. Cubs pitcher was given some room outside the zone to operate, likely didn't effect the outcome though.
2 runs over about 8 innings.. you can't get a win if you can't score runs. For w/e reason Lester never gets any run support.
Yeah there were a few bad calls throughout that game, but it went both ways and it wasn't anything egregious like tonight. Some of these strike calls tonight weren't even close. And the bad calls were much more frequent.
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