*****Official Cubs 2019 thread*****

[SoDakHawk]

You try to lock him now with a fat contract that ends when he's about 34. It gives the Cubs cost certainty and something to build around. It appears that KB is fine with going through arbitration for 3 years, he'll still get paid well, then try to land a fat deal at age 30 that will get him to about age 37 or 38, it's the Boras way. Problem is that MLB clubs, with the use of analytics, are no longer keen on handing out big, multi-year deals to sluggers over 30.

This will end up being a major miscalculation by Boras because the Cubs are not going to fork over the big contract when KB is 30, and they shouldn't. I don't see many other teams doing it either, but it only takes one. So I hope KB enjoys playing out the end of his career in San Francisco or Seattle or for the Angels, because that is where this is headed.

The entire premise of "the plan" was to build up a core and lock them in and build around them. KB doesn't want to do that, at this time. Maybe Javy, or Contreras, or somebody else will be interested in locking in long term. Depends on who is in the Cubs long term plans after this past season. I think this past season may have changed the thinking on the value of some of these guys, like Schwarber.

I'm fine with the Cubs treating this like a business and not getting attached to players. I'd rather they make moves that will make the Cubs contenders every year, like the Cardinals do, then get too nostalgic. If that means trading or letting guys who are beloved go then that's what needs to happen.

 

[Brian_Fantana]

I like Kris Bryant but he isn't worth anywhere close to 200 million and that's with a healthy shoulder. I hope Boras' ego continues to save us from Theo making a very bad and long lasting decision.

Huh? Do you have any idea how much a homegrown player like KB brings to a team? One down year likely caused by injury and he is worth less than most FAs on the market? Sounds weird but $200m for a player like KB is almost a bargain. And he’s 3 years from FA which could cause another $100m or so if contracts keep going the direction of out of control

 

[H4wkfan4life]

How did you picture the Cubs being built as Theo laid the groundwork here? To start, they hit on a good number of draft choices, Bryant being maybe the biggest hit. Are you envisioning a scenario where the Cubs have a constant stream of 22-28yos coming up and then letting them all walk when they hit FA, replaced by another kid from the system? I don't think that's realistic. The last dynasty built from within was the 1990s Yankees and even they didn't do this. They kept Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter. I figured all along that the Cubs would roll as long as they could with the cheap, cost-controlled talent and then pick 1-3 to try to lock in through their primes.

If Kris Bryant's shoulder isn't chronic (and all reports say it's not), then I would assume he'd heal up and likely go back to the hitter he's been.....which is top 10 level talent in all of MLB. Of course he's going to get expensive. I don't love huge FA deals at 30, but KB is 26. Barring chronic injury, I'd expect elite MLB hitters to be in their prime from 27-33. Some guys last longer, some fade earlier, but it's pretty legit for hitters at that level to be quite good to at least 32-33. If you wait out KB's contract, then he'll be looking for his one big payday at 30. I would fully expect the Cubs to start trying now to extend him. Even if they have to pay virtually open market rates and, say, a 6-year deal, at least you're locking him in and paying for his 27-32 seasons. I have no problem with that.

If I was the Cubs right now, I'd look to see if I could lock in KB and Baez. Right now, all the key pieces are open questions after 2021. Lock those two in and you have the start of a core still in their prime beyond 2021.

Unless we are getting a rizzo like deal on javy, I want to see more than one good year before he gets an extension.

I'm interested to see what machado and harper get. That'll go a long way to what KB decides to do, or should do

 

[SoDakHawk]

Harper and Machado are under 26. KB will be testing the FA waters at age 30. Apples and oranges there.

 

[Brian_Fantana]

Unless we are getting a rizzo like deal on javy, I want to see more than one good year before he gets an extension.

I'm interested to see what machado and harper get. That'll go a long way to what KB decides to do, or should do

Probably about $100m more than $200

 

[lucas80]

One could also point out that this doesn't have to be a binary point in the negotiation. Cubs control him for a couple more seasons.

I think we are all friends here, so, at the risk of derision and laughter, can you explain the usage of binary in your response? Just not getting your point with my understanding of the word.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

You try to lock him now with a fat contract that ends when he's about 34. It gives the Cubs cost certainty and something to build around. It appears that KB is fine with going through arbitration for 3 years, he'll still get paid well, then try to land a fat deal at age 30 that will get him to about age 37 or 38, it's the Boras way. Problem is that MLB clubs, with the use of analytics, are no longer keen on handing out big, multi-year deals to sluggers over 30.

Assuming he stays healthy which is no guarantee.

Probably about $100m more than $200

how many years is your guess?

 

[lucas80]

People need to understand that bryant was hurt from the end of May on, look at his numbers before he got hurt. He is an elite player.

Again, this puzzles me that he doesn't understand his own fragility and accept a GIGANTIC pile of cash now.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

I think we are all friends here, so, at the risk of derision and laughter, can you explain the usage of binary in your response? Just not getting your point with my understanding of the word.

101010101010101010101010101010

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Again, this puzzles me that he doesn't understand his own fragility and accept a GIGANTIC pile of cash now.

?? he's been pretty healthy from what I can recall.


he does have some bowling balls though!

Hopefully Jake can call him to talk about his wonderful agent

 

[hawkifann]

I think we are all friends here, so, at the risk of derision and laughter, can you explain the usage of binary in your response? Just not getting your point with my understanding of the word.

Maybe it wasn’t the best choice of words to make my point....I just meant that him turning down whatever the offer was doesn’t mean negotiations can’t continue and it doesn’t mean they can’t still come to a longer deal before he’s 30.

 

[hawkifann]

Again, this puzzles me that he doesn't understand his own fragility and accept a GIGANTIC pile of cash now.

Counterpoint is Rizzo. He left a TON of cash on the table by signing that 7yr extension.

 

[dgordo]

Again, this puzzles me that he doesn't understand his own fragility and accept a GIGANTIC pile of cash now.

I’ll never blame a guy for betting on himself.

 

[LuteHawk]

Scott Boras is a greedy agent who has messed up the
lives of some of his clients. There are only a handful of
teams who are going to pay someone $200 million.
The Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs,

The Yankees got suckered into Stanton for $250 million.
They learned nothing from the outrageous contract they
gave A-Rod who was missing in action the last several
years of it. The Red Sox are having second thoughts
about the huge contract with David Price. Word on the
street is that the Dodgers are not giving Manny Machado
the huge contract he wants.

 

[hawkifann]

Word on the street is that the Dodgers are not giving Manny Machado the huge contract he wants.

No kidding? With Seager coming back? You don’t say...

 

[hawkfan0319]

View embedded media

So my question is, did KB decline it or did Boras decline it just to be a jerk? Boras would be the kind of person to do it, and tell KB to not comment on it.

 

[hawkifann]

So my question is, did KB decline it or did Boras decline it just to be a jerk? Boras would be the kind of person to do it, and tell KB to not comment on it.

KB came out this morning and said the story simply isn't true, so there's that, too. You basically have to look away from these kinds of negotiations until there's some resolution one way or the other. Someone could have leaked something thinking it was true but it wasn't. KB's side might have leaked it and later deny for a strategic purpose. The front office might have leaked something to put a toe in the public opinion water, who knows.

Let's also be real about Boras. He's all about maximizing money for his best guys so that he can maintain that "super agent" rep. He's not going to "decline it to be a jerk". Boras comes off as a jerk much of the time, but all of his moves are extremely calculated and let's also be real here....while the Cubs would love to lock Bryant in and while Bryant might want the peace of mind that comes with a long-term deal, where is the fire that would cause KB/Boras to take something less than what they're hoping for right now? There's no reason for them to accept at this point. You mention "doing it to be a jerk"....where's the win there? If they declined an offer, it's because they don't think it's good enough. This is a business deal involving hundreds of millions of dollars....nobody is doing anything just to be "nice" or just to be a "jerk".

 

[SoDakHawk]

My problem with Boras is how he uses players as chess pieces in a long game he is playing. Case in point, holding out on legitimately good offers that clubs make to players in order to set the market higher for other clients he has. He did that with Jake last year. No reason Jake shouldn't have been a Cub again because the Cubs offered more than he ended up signing for in Philly. It was Boras trying to set the market high that F-ed that whole deal up. Jake could have been a Cub for 6yr/$120 mill, instead he's on 3/$75 mill with 2 years of club options for $20 mill each. He was better off taking the Cubs deal.

 

[dgordo]

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

I read all of this and am still mad that the Cubs are stuck with Yu Darvish for 5 years and another $105 million.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Counterpoint is Rizzo. He left a TON of cash on the table by signing that 7yr extension.

Rizzo had a lot more to prove than KB does though. How much better can he actually get?

 

[Im4Iowa]

I read all of this and am still mad that the Cubs are stuck with Yu Darvish for 5 years and another $105 million.

Agreed. I still think Darvish was injured early on and tried to push through. I at least have a little hope he can bounce back and give us some good years. Heyward’s contract is the one that hurts. Great outfielder but his offense will never justify that contract.

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

Rizzo had a lot more to prove than KB does though. How much better can he actually get?

If KB maintains his 2015- May 2018 levels of production, he will command $30M/year. With him, it's not a matter of getting better, it's more a matter of how good he will be into his 30's.

 

[lucas80]

Boras never brags about the guys who lose money because of his tactics. More cash in than lose out, but he has a system that works for him. I'm sure certain players are drawn to his style, but he's cost some guys some big money.

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

Agreed. I still think Darvish was injured early on and tried to push through. I at least have a little hope he can bounce back and give us some good years. Heyward’s contract is the one that hurts. Great outfielder but his offense will never justify that contract.

Yu's three best seasons were 2012-2014. He has thrown 200 innings in his career a grand total of one time. He almost retired during the 2017 season before being traded. He had the worst two-start performance in World Series history. He admitted he was afraid to pitch at Dodger Stadium because of booing.

You're optimistic for what reason?

 

[HawkeyesAndCubs1023]

Boras never brags about the guys who lose money because of his tactics. More cash in than lose out, but he has a system that works for him. I'm sure certain players are drawn to his style, but he's cost some guys some big money.

The deal that he got Washington to sign with Jayson Werth was an all-time fleecing.

 

[dgordo]

A message from Tom Ricketts

Dear Cubs Fans,

"Everybody In." This simple declaration holds great meaning. While our roster is 25 players strong, it's the millions of committed teammates that make what we do special. You bring our beloved ballpark to life and make road games feel like home games. We cannot say it enough ... you are the best fans in sports.

While we fell short of our ultimate goal in 2018, our team earned 95 wins for the third time in the past four seasons. We are just the fifth NL club in the divisional era to make the postseason four years in a row. This level of sustained success doesn't happen often and it certainly doesn't happen without your support.

The memorable moments of 2018 - some of the best ever at Wrigley Field - underscore why our ballpark is so magical. Together, we enjoyed dramatic comeback wins, electric grand slams, shutdown pitching performances and spectacular defensive plays. And, who will ever forget El Mago stealing home? In addition to countless team accomplishments, we also witnessed tremendous individual efforts. Veterans Jon Lester and Ben Zobrist were among the best at their craft, Anthony Rizzo continues to provide the heartbeat for our team, and Javy Báez, who delivered an MVP-caliber season, is perhaps the most exciting player in baseball.

Unfortunately, a thrilling summer at Wrigley Field gave way to a disappointing October. Falling one game short in the NL Central and making an early postseason exit, while both unfamiliar and uncomfortable, will motivate us. We will spend the winter working hard to give Joe Maddon and our team the support they need to reclaim our division.

In addition, we continue to restore and modernize the Friendly Confines. Inside the ballpark, we introduced new premier experiences and a variety of concessions for fans to enjoy. We will continue to deliver new fan amenities this coming season, especially in the upper level. Outside the ballpark, Hotel Zachary opened to great success and added several new retail and restaurant options. We also doubled the number of community events offered at Gallagher Way, helping make Wrigley Field and the surrounding area a year-round destination for families and fans. This award-winning community asset has transformed Wrigleyville and improved the overall gameday experience.

From our own backyard to neighborhoods all across Chicago, we're delivering on our goal of being a good neighbor. We are proud to be one of the most philanthropic franchises in sports. Our team and Cubs Charities continue to raise record funds, deliver meaningful programming and increase access to diamond sports. Through Cubs Jr. All-Stars, Diamond Project, Cubs Scholars and Cubs Care grants, we positively impacted more than 135,000 youth this year alone.

Despite our abrupt ending on the field, our team is in no way defined by one Wild Card loss. The overwhelming sentiment, from our front office to the clubhouse, is that we have a lot of work to do and will be back stronger than ever. The talented core that fueled this unprecedented run of success is still in place. Our players are young and hungry. Our fans are committed like no other fan base. We are ready to write the next chapter of our amazing story.

Go Cubs,

Tom Ricketts

© 2018 MLB Advanced Media, L.P. All Major League Baseball trademarks, s
October 11, 2018 View as web page

 

[tumorboy]

He’s under team control until he turns 30. I think it is a mistake on his part to turn down the money but that’s the boras way.

Maybe he should talk with Josh Donaldson.

 

[dgordo]

Maybe he should talk with Josh Donaldson.

Absolutely

 

[Im4Iowa]

Agreed. I still think Darvish was injured early on and tried to push through. I at least have a little hope he can bounce back and give us some good years. Heyward’s contract is the one that hurts. Great outfielder but his offense will never justify that contract.

Yu's three best seasons were 2012-2014. He has thrown 200 innings in his career a grand total of one time. He almost retired during the 2017 season before being traded. He had the worst two-start performance in World Series history. He admitted he was afraid to pitch at Dodger Stadium because of booing.

You're optimistic for what reason?

I’m optimistic because I work with several former major league players and they all say he has great stuff and velocity (with good movement). They think the Cubs can still salvage some really good innings out of him, but it’s more mental than mechanics. They also believe that Joe’s relaxed style will help, too.

Based on my conversations with them, I feel like the Cubs will get some value from him. Prob not the money they paid, though.

 

[dgordo]

Chili Davis just got canned

 

[dgordo]

 

[CuttyDoesIt]

So my question is, did KB decline it or did Boras decline it just to be a jerk? Boras would be the kind of person to do it, and tell KB to not comment on it.

Agents work for the players, not the other way around. There is no way an agent will decline something "just to be a jerk"

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[hawkifann]

View embedded media

Gee. I sure hope KB doesn't decide to sign with another team this offseason.

 

[H4wkfan4life]

If KB maintains his 2015- May 2018 levels of production, he will command $30M/year. With him, it's not a matter of getting better, it's more a matter of how good he will be into his 30's.

I'm talking about comparing rizzos deal to KB. Rizzo had more to prove when he signed. Kb doesn't....

 

[hawkifann]

Rizzo had a lot more to prove than KB does though. How much better can he actually get?

Fair....but where's the urgency to sign long term if you're KB?

 

[H4wkfan4life]

Boras never brags about the guys who lose money because of his tactics. More cash in than lose out, but he has a system that works for him. I'm sure certain players are drawn to his style, but he's cost some guys some big money.

yup, boras can afford to play the odds as he has many contracts.......players take much more of a gamble than he does.

 

[SoDakHawk]

That was about as obvious a move to be made ever.