*****Official Cubs 2019 thread*****
- Thread starter QChawks
- Start date
As a Cubs fan living in Chicago, I’m having a really hard time getting over this Jimenez trade. Seriously. I think about it daily.
I understand bad trades happen, and you move on and forget about the players you lost but that’s not going to happen with this trade! Every time I turn on the damned news, I’m going to get Jimenez and Cease highlights. Every time I’m listening to local sports radio, they’re going to be talking about Jimenez and Cease. It’s not going to stop—it’s only going to get worse.
With Brock/Broglio you only had to hear about it when they played the Cards. Cubs fans in Chicago will be reminded of this trade EVERY. F*CKING. DAY.
#ThanksTheo
I understand bad trades happen, and you move on and forget about the players you lost but that’s not going to happen with this trade! Every time I turn on the damned news, I’m going to get Jimenez and Cease highlights. Every time I’m listening to local sports radio, they’re going to be talking about Jimenez and Cease. It’s not going to stop—it’s only going to get worse.
With Brock/Broglio you only had to hear about it when they played the Cards. Cubs fans in Chicago will be reminded of this trade EVERY. F*CKING. DAY.
#ThanksTheo
It’s probably a good time to remind you band wagon types that the Cubs are in first place after a grueling stretch, with few off days. Other GMs will face the tough decision over selling off assets soon, while Theo/Jed can buy a few pieces.
Some security force they have there. Takes an apparent spectator to show them how to cuff 'em.
Are there any moves that the Cubs can make that was substantially improve the team? They have 3 worthwhile prospects in the entire system, and you can't trade any of them (especially Hoerner), because then your farm system will drop from the 25 range to dead last.
They have the #2 payroll in baseball, and I'm not sure that Ricketts wants to go deep into the luxury tax. Remember the halcyon days when the contracts for Yu Darivsh and Tyler Chatwood were no big deal because they "only used money, not prospects" to acquire them, and that it would prevent the Cubs from doing what was needed to make the team better?
There are two primary factors at play in the Cubs mediocre season, and neither are Joe Maddon:
1. The incompetence around pitcher development. Had the Cubs been able to develop a #4/5 starter, they would not be paying approximately $100M for their aging rotation. This would have freed up payroll to improve the roster elsewhere.
2. Since 2016, the "young core" has been a mixed bag. Kris Bryant, Javy Baez, and Willson Contreras are all great successes even if they stay the same and get no better. Addison Russell has gotten worse, largely self-inflicted. Kyle Schwarber has gotten no better, despite Theo declaring him the next David Ortiz in Verducci's book. Albert Almora has a very low ceiling, due to his ground ball tendencies, and the fact that he runs the 40 in about 6.8 (probably). Ian Happ is currently hitting 93 wRC+ in Iowa.
I don't think the mixed results of the young core is unusual - it would have been highly unlikely for everyone to live up to their prospect cache.
The bigger issue is #1. Not only has it hurt the future, but it hurt their ability to spend on position players to augment the disappointing results of the young core.
If they didn't have to commit $53M to Hamels/Darvish/Chatwood, the could have offered Michael Brantley 2 years/$36M, beating out Houston's offer. How different would this lineup look with him?
They have the #2 payroll in baseball, and I'm not sure that Ricketts wants to go deep into the luxury tax. Remember the halcyon days when the contracts for Yu Darivsh and Tyler Chatwood were no big deal because they "only used money, not prospects" to acquire them, and that it would prevent the Cubs from doing what was needed to make the team better?
There are two primary factors at play in the Cubs mediocre season, and neither are Joe Maddon:
1. The incompetence around pitcher development. Had the Cubs been able to develop a #4/5 starter, they would not be paying approximately $100M for their aging rotation. This would have freed up payroll to improve the roster elsewhere.
2. Since 2016, the "young core" has been a mixed bag. Kris Bryant, Javy Baez, and Willson Contreras are all great successes even if they stay the same and get no better. Addison Russell has gotten worse, largely self-inflicted. Kyle Schwarber has gotten no better, despite Theo declaring him the next David Ortiz in Verducci's book. Albert Almora has a very low ceiling, due to his ground ball tendencies, and the fact that he runs the 40 in about 6.8 (probably). Ian Happ is currently hitting 93 wRC+ in Iowa.
I don't think the mixed results of the young core is unusual - it would have been highly unlikely for everyone to live up to their prospect cache.
The bigger issue is #1. Not only has it hurt the future, but it hurt their ability to spend on position players to augment the disappointing results of the young core.
If they didn't have to commit $53M to Hamels/Darvish/Chatwood, the could have offered Michael Brantley 2 years/$36M, beating out Houston's offer. How different would this lineup look with him?
Cubs will trade Miguel Amaya, Ian Happ and a bunch of AA and A prospects for Whit Merrifield. This gives them the lead-off second baseman they desperately need. After that, they’ll target a lefty for the BP. New everyday lineup:
2B: Merrifield
LF: Schwarber
RF: Bryant
1B: Rizzo
SS: Baez
C: Contreras
CF: Heyward
3B: Bote
P
This post won't play well on this thread because it's too accurate. As I look at the current roster... I think the real issue is does mgmt tear down what they have and retool before they get stuck with contracts for Rizzo/Bryant/Baez and try and restock the farm system(preferable)... or do they trade off what little they have left on the farm for missing pieces?
Make a couple minor moves before the deadline but give up nothing of significance. The current guys on the roster need to be the ones who perform and get it done. If there is no post season success this season then it's time to rebuild on the run. Make the necessary moves this off-season to ensure the Cubs remain a competitive team for the long run. I am not down for this boom or bust mentality. The Cubs are a large market franchise with the resources to ALWAYS be competing for at least division titles. There is no reason the Cubs shouldn't be like the Dodgers or Yankees with decades of continued success.
Except they don't have many desirable players to use as trade bait. At least none that get them a meaningful addition. Merrifield is a pipe dream.
Trade undesirables for other undesirables. You are just looking for guys that fill a niche and are good clubhouse guys. The core of this team has to be the ones who get it done. Maybe trade Schwarber for someone comparable to send a message to the clubhouse.
I just find it amazing how many foolish mistakes are being made on the field by experienced players.
Maddon has earned cred from his days in TB, but he's really made so many head scratching moves during his days in Chicago. The lame duck manager.
Who's a bandwagon fan?
I'm telling it like it is and have done so since the days of Kessinger to Beckert to Banks.
If the other team puts on the shift; well then, hit it the other way.
Man on 3rd less than 2 out? Hit a goddamn flyball.
Cubs happen to score a couple of runs, the pitchers need to hold the other team the next inning.
This team has too much talent to be playing like morons. It all comes down to their effort on the field. They lollygag the ball around the infield. They lollygag down to first. They lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes them??!!
It's why I keep posting about trading for good club house guys. Coaches and management can only do so much to hold guys accountable. Real accountability comes from the other guys in the locker room. David Ross provided that leadership. JHey is supposed to be one of the clubhouse leaders. I think the team is a little lacking in that department right now (no coincidence a veteran guy like Zobrist happens to be gone at the moment) and there needs to be more of a presence of guys who will hold teammates accountable.
The people who think this team isn't underachieving are likely those who believe some of the following:
-Yu Darvish is still the same pitcher he was before 2015 Tommy John, or even his historic meltdown in the 2017 World Series.
-Kyle Schwarber is an elite hitter because he got 7 hits in the 2016 World Series after a long layoff, despite the last 2.5 years of MLB AB's showing us he's a little better than average.
-Jon Lester (while still very effective and worth every penny of his contract) is still a front-line starter at age 35.
-Albert Almora is good.
This team is not underachieving. The bullpen blew some banked wins, but this team is WAY worse than the elite organizations in the game: NYY, HOU, LAD.
This team is underachieving.
The bullpen blew some banked wins.
Players are simply not playing up to their potential, and I'm not including Darvish, Lester, or Almora.
Schwarber has been put in a tough spot in the batting order. It's not his strong suit. I suppose Maddon might have been doing it so he sees more fastballs. But, there's still no excuse for not hitting a flyball with a man on 3rd and less than 2 out. You don't have to be a superstar to understand this. Otherwise, he is who he is. I don't think he'll ever be much better.
As a whole, it's the mental errors that's killing this team.
Last year the team was 7th in defensive efficiency, and this year they're currently 11th.
In 2016, the Cubs were 1st.
Last year the Cubs were 3rd in ERA, this year they're 8th.
It's a trend downward across the board for this team, and I think correcting it starts from above the shoulders.
The bullpen blew some banked wins.
Players are simply not playing up to their potential, and I'm not including Darvish, Lester, or Almora.
Schwarber has been put in a tough spot in the batting order. It's not his strong suit. I suppose Maddon might have been doing it so he sees more fastballs. But, there's still no excuse for not hitting a flyball with a man on 3rd and less than 2 out. You don't have to be a superstar to understand this. Otherwise, he is who he is. I don't think he'll ever be much better.
As a whole, it's the mental errors that's killing this team.
Last year the team was 7th in defensive efficiency, and this year they're currently 11th.
In 2016, the Cubs were 1st.
Last year the Cubs were 3rd in ERA, this year they're 8th.
It's a trend downward across the board for this team, and I think correcting it starts from above the shoulders.
I've said this many times. Verlander made sense, and two years ago the Marlins were unloading anyone they could (Which, come to think of it is an annual thing), and multiple players including Yelich were available. Yelich would have filled multiple boxes.
How many of you remember this? I lost some (not all) respect for Santo that day, and he was always one of my favorite players.
Today in 1969 Cubs history: 'And it's caught — and dropped! — by Young'
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/282a9b17-701d-3fa6-b1d7-198a41ff55d0/today-in-1969-cubs-history:.html
Today in 1969 Cubs history: 'And it's caught — and dropped! — by Young'
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/282a9b17-701d-3fa6-b1d7-198a41ff55d0/today-in-1969-cubs-history:.html
Except that we pissed away our top prospects while they didn't.
I don't know if we are even a top 5 team right now and many of those ahead of us keep improving
LOL, no world series team is going to have a garbage bat like schwarber hitting 2nd. Dude shouldn't be in the top half of any serious lineup.....
Cubs have as many championships in the last 15 years as the Yanks and Dodgers combined. They've pissed away plenty, too.
Already saw that coming
.Bottom line is we dont know what happens if we trade for a different closer that doesn't cost 7 years full control of an all star.
Winning it was great, but if it is last time we're there in another century......
Already saw that coming
Bottom line is we dont know what happens if we trade for a different closer that doesn't cost 7 years full control of an all star.
Winning it was great, but if it is last time we're there in another century......
Like the Dodgers? I don't day that to defend any move the Cubs have made, but rather to point out that other teams have pissed away as much or more. Dodgers haven't won in 30 years and nobody has "pissed away" more talent and resources than they have.
The Cubs have made some big mistakes, no doubt, but for all of the praised moves of Yankees and Dodgers, neither team has won since the Yanks in 2009.
The Cubs have a lot of options. They could completely tear down. They could make incremental adds and hope for the best before revisiting in the offseason when a lot of money comes off the books ($50M). Even more comes off after next season. They could work on a blockbuster in the offseason.
There's plenty of opportunity to stay competitive and reload on the fly.
Already saw that coming
Bottom line is we dont know what happens if we trade for a different closer that doesn't cost 7 years full control of an all star.
Winning it was great, but if it is last time we're there in another century......
You want to hate a move? Hate Quintana for Jiminez and Cease.....that's a million times worse than the Torres deal.
Pretty unlikely Theo will spend the end of his contract doing anything other than going all in.
We certainly have options, but I think that depends on the players. Hope we can extend javy and rizzo but we'll see. I have a feeling KB thinks he is worth more than he really is so not expecting him to stay around.
How much of the 50M coming off the books is bad money? Will that even be enough to replace who we lose and pay the young guys their raises? Next year we'll still have darvish, heyward and an older lester. That's probably 70m there? If they can't get rizzo and bryant to extend at reasonable prices then it seems we should go all out next year and sell off in 2021.....not that I'm any kind of expert lol.
Oh I do hate that a millions times more
hell even if they didn't get cease. I'm just happy I don't live in chicago!
That's where his bosses need to pay attention. He could go all in by gutting what's left or in a more sustaining way.
hamels wont be easy to replace, assuming he comes back how he left. kintzlers production wont be easy to replace for that money either.
don't know if we can even count zobrist, he doesn't even count for much this year does he?
that 50 will disappear pretty quick before we even start talking raises for the arb guys. then again, is it possible for their pay to go down? half of them sure don't seem to need a raise lol
assuming we let him go, which doesn't seem too unlikely....
either way, we're gonna be spending BP money, or we better be at least!
strop, cishek, morrow, kintzler-they could all be gone next year I think
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