*****Official Cubs 2019 thread*****
- Thread starter QChawks
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What "fixes", the Cubs? Bleacher Nation threw out talk today of a swap with the D-Backs for David Peralta.
Meh.
The Cubs love their flexibility, but my thought is they truly have nobody at three positions right now. 2B, LF, and CF. They have interchangeable parts, but nobody seizing those spots full time. Or, capable of seizing the position. Bote in my mind deserves more time. Would it be helpful to shift Heyward to CF, put Bryant into RF, let Bote have 3rd full-time, and hope that Zobrist comes back sometime in August? Then you make a deal to fill in at LF.
Just spitballing, folks.
Meh.
The Cubs love their flexibility, but my thought is they truly have nobody at three positions right now. 2B, LF, and CF. They have interchangeable parts, but nobody seizing those spots full time. Or, capable of seizing the position. Bote in my mind deserves more time. Would it be helpful to shift Heyward to CF, put Bryant into RF, let Bote have 3rd full-time, and hope that Zobrist comes back sometime in August? Then you make a deal to fill in at LF.
Just spitballing, folks.
It's pretty clear they need a leadoff man. Dexter wasn't Mr. "You go, we go" for nothing. If I could fix any one thing, it would be that.
Merrifield to second, Bote to third, Bryant to right, Heyward to center.
———
If I were GM I’d have Yelich in center, Jimenez in right, Bryant in left, LeMahieu at second, Torres at short and Baez at third. But we all can’t be as brilliant as Theo.
You might think they don’t have anyone in LF but Theo and Jed don’t think LF is an issue at all.
Also, they can’t add anyone in August, it’s a firm trade deadline this year, no post July 31 waiver wire deals anymore.
Also, they can’t add anyone in August, it’s a firm trade deadline this year, no post July 31 waiver wire deals anymore.
Cubs will have a tough choice with Quintana. On the one hand, he's the face of the Jiminez deal. On the other, even for not being great, he's a tough guy to replace for $10.5M. They could buy him out for $1M, but then you have to replace those innings.
Maybe Alzolay is ready to take a spot, but then you're potentially also looking to replace Hamels. Another offseason option might be too try to find a deal of terrible contracts and see if you cam move Darvish or Heyward. It won't be easy and you will bring bad contacts back, but the Reds and Dodgers made a deal like that work.
LF isn't a huge issue if the Cubs have a leadoff man somewhere else. He's adequate defensively overall (below average playing balls, but his arm makes up for some of it) and he's a slightly above average hitter overall and a lefty with pop.
The problems with the offense stem a lot from that lack of a "Go" guy that starts it up, plus 2B & CF have been problematic.
It's Al's hard to overstate the Zobrist loss (or maybe the Russell addition). When Z went on reserved list, the Cubs were 21-13 and hot. They stayed hot through the next week, getting to 25-14. Since then, they've gone 22-29. It's not all Z, but weakness in multiple spots and without Maddon having that "supersub" to move around has really limited things. Descalso needs to be gone soon.
Theo will keep Quintana. He is fascinated with financial control, and he'd be admitting he made a s*** deal.
Alzolay has to take one spot.
I can't recall, but isn't Heyward's deal front or mid-range loaded? And, he isn't hurting the team. He is overpaid, but he isn't hurting the team. If you move on crap contract it has to be Darvish's. You can't pay someone to go out every time and give you 4 2/3 innings and then have your manager talk about how that is growth in the post game presser.
I do not know why the Royals would trade Merrifield at this point. If they did trade him to the Cubs Theo would be dealing from a position of weakness and drastically overpay.
Good point on loading with JHey. I agree he's not hurting them.
This is where there could be a power struggle. Ricketts is likely to care far more about 2022 and beyond than Theo (who will almost certainly be gone).
It will be interesting to see what Theo does. I can’t possibly see him leading a mid-market or smaller market team. He only knows big budget/big payroll.
Right. I didn’t touch on the rotation but it should include Verlander, Cease and Arrieta. I understand Jake is having a horrible season but he was far and away better than Darvish last year, not to mention a big leader in the clubhouse.
Epstein has made a series of bad trades and signings. The Cubs aren't getting fixed with just one move.
Tear down and start over while some of the big dogs have trade value.
Cubs fans... you got your "once in a century" WS title. The page is turning back to being the "loveable losers".
So we're just going back over the past 4 seasons and replacing all bad moves with other moves that would have been better using knowledge from after the fact? Awesome.
Nothing says "lovable losers" like being in position for a 5th straight postseason with 3 NLCS in 4 years.
For the most part, as a fan, I hated a lot of these deals when they happened.
I’ll admit, I was very excited when they landed Heyward and Darvish — I can’t blame Theo for those moves.
I have no issue with the Torres move — it resulted in a title. But looking back, it would have made much more sense to send Schwarber. This is a textbook case of Theo falling in love with his guys.
Most of the others, I HATED. Don’t get me started on the Quintana trade. I remember the day that one came across on the radio — I almost drove off the road.
I absolutely wanted them to trade for Verlander. He wanted to come to Chicago. That was a massive miss.
After the debacle with Russell, and with Zo being so old, we had a hole at 2B. I was really hoping they would bring in LeMahieu.
Miami was willing to send Yelich for Almora/Happ. Come on. Even before he blew up in Milwaukee, that’s a no-brainer. Again, Theo loves his picks — Almora was his first one.
At the end of your first sentence, you could, and should, have included this minor caveat...(In the worst division in MLB).First place team. Time to rebuild!
But hey... keep thinking this team will be competitive in the post season.
At the end of your first sentence, you could, and should, have included this minor caveat...(In the worst division in MLB).
But hey... keep thinking this team will be competitive in the post season.
Can you go make a Yankees season thread and talk to yourself?
Its like our version of the #unwantedIvanka thread. #unwantedMitchLL
Whoa, what? NL Central is not the worst division, it's actually the best and most competitive. There are no tankers to feast on and bloat the record with. Every other division has 1, 2, or more teams (looking at you AL Central) that just out & out suck, that is not the case in the NL Central.At the end of your first sentence, you could, and should, have included this minor caveat...(In the worst division in MLB).
But hey... keep thinking this team will be competitive in the post season.
There are a lot of assumptions I've seen on message boards that I've never really seen backed up anywhere else:
- Send Schwarber to NYC instead of Torres: Maybe, but do we know the Yankees were interested in that at the time? Schwarber was still no more than halfway through his ACL tear rehab. Do we know that was discussed and rejected? That said, Torres made some sense because at the time he appeared blocked by Russell and Baez.
- Quintana - I'm with you. I didn't mind Cease so much, as Quintana was a solid to good ML starter at the time of the deal and there's no guarantee Cease ever even gets to that level....but I was excited about Jiminez.
- Verlander - I was interested as well, but do we know that there was no discussion? Astros didn't get him until August, by which time the Cubs had made most of their moves.
- I'm with you on LeMahieu this season, but management appeared to have already laid down the budget limits, so not sure there was a lot of path to a move, unless they'd have just let Hamels go and started Monty, which could have been a defensible move....but the Cubs needed the hedge against the awful Darvish signing (which again, like Heyward, was hard to argue with at the time).
- I've seen rumor and speculation that the Fish would have taken Almora/Happ, but has that really been documented? I'm not sure Almora/Happ at the time of the trade would have been more attractive than the Brinson, Dias, Harrison, Yamamoto package Miami did get.
- I don't think it was you that referenced Arrieta, but I'll address it here anyway. I still hear Cub fans complaining about not just signing Jake back. It's fact that the Cubs paid Darvish more than the Phils paid Jake and it's very well documented that the Cubs gave Jake the opportunity to take the offer they ultimately gave Darvish. I have a really hard time blaming the Cubs there. I think that's a classic Boras play. Cubs offered Jake even more than that previously, which he turned down.
Ultimately, the bottom line matters. The Cubs won their Game 7 in 2016, and the Dodgers lost theirs after Yu Darvish failed to make it out of the 2nd inning, just like Game 3.
I think where people bring the Dodgers into this is that they are in MUCH better shape organizationally than the Cubs. Heck, they still have a top 10 farm system, and are a player development machine.
The very best Presidents/GM’s are those who can win a title, but also those who win their division a majority of the time. This is why John Schuerholtz of the Braves is the best baseball exec of our time.
That's the reason I point to the Dodgers and want to model the club after them. The Dodgers are always in contention for division titles, always. They are always bringing up new, young arms and bats. They are a machine when it comes to identifying and developing players. Yes, it's been a long time since they have won it all, but they will eventually break through if given enough bites at the apple.
Watched quite a few Cubs and Dodgers games over the weekend with my dad, who is a long time Dodger fan. My takeaway is that other fans think more highly of what the Cubs have than what Cub fans do. The other takeaway is that we covet their players more than our own.
Other than the really bad period of time (maybe a decade) when the Dodgers had that ridiculous owner signing horrendous contracts and pilfering money away from the club for his own purposes, the Dodgers have been a player development machine since they coaxed Branch Rickey away from the Cardinals. Things still have to break right.
I'll easily grant that they have a stronger ML team right now and much more at the high levels of minors (not sure about overall depth, as the Cubs are very heavy at the lower-end with quite a few really interesting players). That's been the case for a long time (except, probably for the 2014-2017 window). We'll see if they can deliver. 3 straight NLDS and 2 straight WS appearances are impressive, for sure.
But I'll quote @SoDakHawk here from a couple posts above: "The Dodgers are always in contention for division titles, always." Historically, largely fact, going back to Branch Rickey. That said, though, how about what the Cubs have done since Theo rebuilt the organization? They were a WC in 2015 at 97 wins. Then they won 2 division titles and were tied for first last year after game 162. This year, despite a really lackluster first half, have a half-game lead in their division. That certainly sounds to me like "always in contention for division titles".
The Cubs' window doesn't look as good as it once did, but there's still a lot here not to like. If they decide to go for any kind of total overhaul this season or in the offseason, guys like Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Contreras, Hendricks, and Strop would bring a crap-ton of talent. I don't think they'll go that way, but it's an option. I think the Cubs could get some value (not Jiminez value) in a Quintana deal. Maybe they could deal Darvish for some other bad contracts that they could just dump and run (see Dodgers-Reds trade this offseason) to some team hoping Darvish can recover.
If they're not going to overhaul, Miguel Amaya could be a really good trading chip now or in the offseason (assuming they look to lock in Contreras, have Caratini and there's the new catcher prospect they just drafted). They have some arms getting close. The Cubs could have between $50-75M to spend in the off-season depending on what they decide to do with a few key guys. Maybe Hamels signs back for less and they let Q go or maybe Alzolay, Montgomery and/or another kid jump into the rotation.
I think etching the headstone of this Cubs team is very much premature. It's going to be a really interesting trade deadline, given the inability for teams to loosely hedge their bets and make real decisions in August. It could mean a tighter market or it could mean that more teams just decide to sell. We'll see how it goes.
I am not an expert on minor league analysis, but I think a lot of people overweight high end, major league ready prospects. It is true that right now the Cubs system is lacking these, but overall the system seems to be in good shape. Three guys with legitimate MLB prospect status have been injured this season. Hoerner, Roederer, and Short. I am also heartened that the Cubs appear to have decided to change up their selection process for pitchers, going for more high risk, high reward guys. They've also made some really good grabs in the last two IFA periods that they've had money to spend.
So, when you look at money available I think both Hoerner and Short should be in the mix next year, and they can free up more money. Alzolay should be in the rotation rather than blowing cash on a FA.
I don't see how we get rid of Q. Clearly he's no ace, but he's only getting 10M plus he seems to be built like a tank. Does the guy ever miss a start?
I can totally see us trading heyward and him becoming an annual 800+ ops guys the rest of the contract. All while we pay half his salary
is winning the central your only goal?First place team. Time to rebuild!
this team can't compete with the top few teams. it's possible to get lucky, but for almost the entire month of October? that is tough....
They had a 20 game stretch where the core 4 were all crushing the ball and the starters were lights out. Get hot again in the playoffs and anything is possible. Not to mention, there were several blown saves during that hot streak prior to the Kimbrel signing.
The central might have the "best, worst" team, but they may also have the "worst, best" team. I don't think we can talk about the central being so great right now.
BTW central teams are 10 games below .500 vs the nl west.
Honestly that is about all we can hope for and considering how many of them choke when the pressure is on.....I wouldn't count on the luck being "good".
That doesn't even factor in having maddumb calling the shots
I highly doubt that. Are you saying there were no other high quality rental relievers that wouldn't have cost us 7 years control of a future star?
I find that pretty hard to believe.
Also I am POSITIVE we could have cleaned up if we traded Schwarber after the world series!
That said, you can't really blame theo for not trading him.
I still think it is odd that him, almora, happ, addy etc haven't done any improving and might have even gotten worse. I still think part of it is letting them have "too much fun". They SHOULD have fun, hard to play your best if your worrying about this or that BUT they need to be held accountable and clearly they aren't. I'm not just talking about hitting either....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This. The window seems pretty small for the Cubs with the high probability they don't sign all three big guns... KB/Rizzo/Javy. The other potential limiting factor is the short shelf life of a upper level catcher. The wear and tear for the position suggests Contreras' peak years won't last very long.
The aging pitching staff is another huge negative.
And the poster that suggested Dodgers fans are envious of the Cubs must be high on meth.
I don't see how we get rid of Q. Clearly he's no ace, but he's only getting 10M plus he seems to be built like a tank. Does the guy ever miss a start?
I can totally see us trading heyward and him becoming an annual 800+ ops guys the rest of the contract. All while we pay half his salary
Personally, I'd keep Q at that price unless two kids are clearly ready or it seems Hamels has more in the tank and would sign for similar (unlikely).
No reason to trade Heyward unless it's to also move Darvish somehow. His worst money is over and he contributes.
Cubs are 3-3 vs LAD with an overall run differential of -1. They're 1-2 against Houston with a -3. This team can play well.
The question is, what to do:
- Gut the system in a win-at-all-costs step for this season? I wouldn't.
- Make some incremental adds at the deadline that don't cost a ton or mortgage the future? This is probably the path I'd take.
- Do nothing at deadline? I wouldn't go there. That's a dead zone. Try to get better or sell pieces.
- Become a seller and start over by selling off elite pieces? No way cubs do this and they'd be stupid to.
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