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*****Official Cubs 2023 thread*****

There was a report out today that the Braves might be taking offers on Fried and d’Arnaud. d’Arnauld makes sense after the Murphy trade, but as it was reported, he’s not far from free agency and the Braves aren’t sure they can/will sign him.
I would be super shocked at that, he’s their #1 starter, 28 years old and getting better every year. I know the farm system is better, but I can’t see the Cubs having anything close to getting a deal done.

And now the Mets are in on Correa, interesting.
 
I’ll be curious if there’s serious interest on the Mets behalf or if this is a discussion that’s being leaked by the Boras camp to push up offers.
 
I would be super shocked at that, he’s arguably their #1 starter, 28 years old and getting better every year. I know the farm system is better, but I can’t see the Cubs having anything close to getting a deal done.

And now the Mets are in on Correa, interesting.
Not my idea, just relaying a report I saw today. I could probably find the tweet if I looked for it. If I’m the Cubs though, I probably inquire about d’Arnaud.
 


Buster Olney said earlier today that the Braves won’t….but we’ll see. There are at least conflicting reports, so the mere idea came from somewhere.
 


Buster Olney said earlier today that the Braves won’t….but we’ll see. There are at least conflicting reports, so the mere idea came from somewhere.
Yeah, I saw that, thanks, for posting though. I can’t imagine the price it would take to get Fried. D’Arnaud is just a guy but Fried is a stud. By all means, every team should call but if I’m the Braves, no way I deal Fried.
 
I don’t care about the dollars. It’s agreeing to the years, the no trade clause, and not having an opt out that makes that a crazy deal. I guess the GM figures he’ll be long gone, or have a WS ring to tie to this contract before it goes sour.
 
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Looks like the last chance for the hapless(no pun intended) Cubs is Swanson.

Obviously teams are overpaying for guys. If I'm Cub mgmt, go get a few mid level guys in trades and hope you can appease an anxious fanbase.
 
13 years, $350 million with no trade. Thank God the Cubs didn't do that.

You all can bitch all you want but that is an albatross contract I want the Cubs to have no part of.

Build from within and take some some shots on FA when it's reasonable. You know, the Cardinal Way.

I'm fine with what the Cubs are doing. We were pretty good the second half and the young players and prospects are coming along.

I want the Cubs to build for the long haul and just reload with guys from the system every year. You know, like those F'ers in STL.
 
What I would do if I was Cubs mgmt would be to identify every great scout and minor league developers, like the Dodgers pitching staff coaches in their system that just churns out guys. I'd poach them, pay them double what their making now. I'd poach them all.

Way cheaper than $350 million for one player and you are investing in the engine that identifies and churns out players.

Not much different than the SEC paying position coaches, consultants, etc. top dollar.
 
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What I would do if I was Cubs mgmt would be to identify every great scout and minor league developers, like the Dodgers pitching staff coaches in their system that just churns out guys. I'd poach them, pay them double what their making now. I'd poach them all.

Way cheaper than $350 million for one player and you are investing in the engine that identifies and churns out players.

Not much different than the SEC paying position coaches, consultants, etc. top dollar.
The Cubs have significantly upped their development game and you’re seeing that in the farm system. The minors are deeper not just because of trades, but also because the Cubs are drafting and developing better.

At some point they need to pay a player beyond arbitration or a 4 year deal or there is a ceiling to the talent you’ll ever carry on your team. If you don’t want to go big FA deals, then lock up young talent through arb years like the Braves. Ideally, you’d do a mix of both.
 
I don’t like that Correa deal at all. Still hopeful that they can sign Swanson. They need to address catcher, I bet they could something out with Toronto, and I’d like to add another SP and address 3B and 1B in some fashion.
 
Looks like the last chance for the hapless(no pun intended) Cubs is Swanson.

Obviously teams are overpaying for guys. If I'm Cub mgmt, go get a few mid level guys in trades and hope you can appease an anxious fanbase.
Give 300 million to Swanson. I hope not if I'm a Cub fan. As a brewer fan please do.
 
I don’t like that Correa deal at all. Still hopeful that they can sign Swanson. They need to address catcher, I bet they could something out with Toronto, and I’d like to add another SP and address 3B and 1B in some fashion.

There are some options out there. With you on Swanson, after that (or in addition to that), there are a good number of short-term options out there:

C: Omar Narvaez
1B/DH: Trey Mancini, JD Martinez, Belt
2B: Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar (KIDDING)
3B (Could maybe play 1B too): Brandon Drury, Justin Turner
OF/DH: Joey Gallo, Benintendi

There are trade options, too. Danny Jansen from Toronto is reportedly on the market. Travis d’Arnaud from Atlanta likely is as well now that the Braves have Murphy. There may well also be other deals available for quality players not being publicly shopped (Arizona lefty OFs, for instance). Pretty much all of the guys above are 1-2 year deals with maybe a couple being up to 4.

I‘m mostly worried about the offense right now. If the starters stay healthy (with or without Hendricks), I think the Cubs have a solid, but not great starting staff. The Cubs have shown the ability to build a good bullpen, so I’ll worry there when the Cubs give me reason to worry. The offense, though, has holes.

If the Cubs add Swanson, then they have elite up the middle D with him, Hoerner at 2B and Bellinger in CF. If they don’t, then the Cubs have an above average defensive SS with a growing bat (every possibility that Hoerner out-hits Swanson), but huge questions at 2B, which is where maybe a Jean Segura comes in. He’s not going to make you forget that you missed a top SS, but the guy can play. The Cubs are hoping Mervis is the guy at 1B, but there needs to be a support/backup piece, not so much in case Mervis fails, but because he will likely have his share of struggles adjusting to MLB pitching. Drury or Turner could give you short-term pop at 3B and the Gallo/Benintendi options are mostly just shots at pop, maybe mostly from DH.

If the Cubs don’t add Swanson, then for the Cubs to get to where they need to be, they need the best of the rest and/or some aggressive trades. I’ve said from the start that I would wait and evaluate when the roster is mostly complete and I’m going to stick with that philosophy, but there’s no doubt Jed’s ability to build a team that can push for the post-season get tougher by the day and gets much harder if Swanson goes off the board.

Young players may also be a big factor if the team is solid this year, but outside of natural growth from guys like Nico, Morel and maybe Velazquez who got action next year, it’s hard to count on Brennan Davis (even ignoring potential for back issues) and Matt Mervis just walking into the bigs and raking. Even if they become future all-stars, they’ll likely have their struggles this year - though STEAMER projecting a 122 wRC+ from Mervis this year definitely raises eyebrows.

I get that these deals are largely insane, but there seems to be plenty of money in the game and after a long run of huge deals for Trout, Betts, Lindor, Seager, Semien, Tatis, Harper, on and on and on, this does not seem to be new, this seems as if it will just be the going price for top stars. The Cubs need to figure out a way to play in this space and/or at bare minimum, figure out a way to develop or trade for young players and then go the Braves route and lock up big chunks of a player’s 20s/early 30s.
 
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Give 300 million to Swanson. I hope not if I'm a Cub fan. As a brewer fan please do.
Swanson won’t get $300M. The SS market is pretty well set this year. Trea Turner got $27M per, Carlos Correa got $26.9M per and Xander Bogaerts got $25.5M per. I think Dansby will land between $23-26M, probably determined by years - the longer the deal, the smaller the AAV. If he spikes higher than $27M per, it will probably be because he got fewer years. If he were to sign for as few as 5 years, that probably pushes the AAV to $30M for a 5/$150M, but he’ll surely get more years in this market. I’m thinking 7/$180-200M, 8/$200-220 up to 10/$240M, something like that.
 
There are some options out there. With you on Swanson, after that (or in addition to that), there are a good number of short-term options out there:

C: Omar Narvaez
1B/DH: Trey Mancini, JD Martinez, Belt
2B: Jean Segura, Jonathan Villar (KIDDING)
3B (Could maybe play 1B too): Brandon Drury, Justin Turner
OF/DH: Joey Gallo, Benintendi

There are trade options, too. Danny Jansen from Toronto is reportedly on the market. Travis d’Arnaud from Atlanta likely is as well now that the Braves have Murphy. There may well also be other deals available for quality players not being publicly shopped (Arizona lefty OFs, for instance). Pretty much all of the guys above are 1-2 year deals with maybe a couple being up to 4.

I‘m mostly worried about the offense right now. If the starters stay healthy (with or without Hendricks), I think the Cubs have a solid, but not great starting staff. The Cubs have shown the ability to build a good bullpen, so I’ll worry there when the Cubs give me reason to worry. The offense, though, has holes.

If the Cubs add Swanson, then they have elite up the middle D with him, Hoerner at 2B and Bellinger in CF. If they don’t, then the Cubs have an above average defensive SS with a growing bat (every possibility that Hoerner out-hits Swanson), but huge questions at 2B, which is where maybe a Jean Segura comes in. He’s not going to make you forget that you missed a top SS, but the guy can play. The Cubs are hoping Mervis is the guy at 1B, but there needs to be a support/backup piece, not so much in case Mervis fails, but because he will likely have his share of struggles adjusting to MLB pitching. Drury or Turner could give you short-term pop at 3B and the Gallo/Benintendi options are mostly just shots at pop, maybe mostly from DH.

If the Cubs don’t add Swanson, then for the Cubs to get to where they need to be, they need the best of the rest and/or some aggressive trades. I’ve said from the start that I would wait and evaluate when the roster is mostly complete and I’m going to stick with that philosophy, but there’s no doubt Jed’s ability to build a team that can push for the post-season get tougher by the day and gets much harder if Swanson goes off the board.

Young players may also be a big factor if the team is solid this year, but outside of natural growth from guys like Nico, Morel and maybe Velazquez who got action next year, it’s hard to count on Brennan Davis (even ignoring potential for back issues) and Matt Mervis just walking into the bigs and raking. Even if they become future all-stars, they’ll likely have their struggles this year - though STEAMER projecting a 122 wRC+ from Mervis this year definitely raises eyebrows.

I get that these deals are largely insane, but there seems to be plenty of money in the game and after a long run of huge deals for Trout, Betts, Lindor, Seager, Semien, Tatis, Harper, on and on and on, this does not seem to be new, this seems as if it will just be the going price for top stars. The Cubs need to figure out a way to play in this space and/or at bare minimum, figure out a way to develop or trade for young players and then go the Braves route and lock up big chunks of a player’s 20s/early 30s.
Doubt Turner leaves LA. With the Bauer arby decision. It's going to play out awhile. Then Turner probably wants to play for a contender. If he can't stay in LA.
 
Doubt Turner leaves LA. With the Bauer arby decision. It's going to play out awhile. Then Turner probably wants to play for a contender. If he can't stay in LA.
I’m not declaring him an automatic as a FA, just pointing out guys who might be lured, depending on how things play out. This is also why Swanson matters. He’s not Correa/Turner/Bogaerts, but Swanson would still be a substantial investment and a guy who has been on consistent winners. If the Cubs miss there, then the perception of building more than a collection of hopes and dreams becomes harder to overcome.
 
I’m not declaring him an automatic as a FA, just pointing out guys who might be lured, depending on how things play out. This is also why Swanson matters. He’s not Correa/Turner/Bogaerts, but Swanson would still be a substantial investment and a guy who has been on consistent winners. If the Cubs miss there, then the perception of building more than a collection of hopes and dreams becomes harder to overcome.
If they want Swanson they'll get him. Not seeing any other fits out there. Unless the Cards come in with a low yrs higher AVV opt out or something. Swanson is the last one because of reality of what he is. Really good glove and inconsistent bat. That could dip well below average. Sound like anyone familiar?
 
If they want Swanson they'll get him. Not seeing any other fits out there. Unless the Cards come in with a low yrs higher AVV opt out or something. Swanson is the last one because of reality of what he is. Really good glove and inconsistent bat. That could dip well below average. Sound like anyone familiar?
Yes, and Heyward’s performance was like 5th-10th percentile outcome on that deal. Dansby’s glove makes them better now. His hard hit rate has increased virtually every year and his power has grown in a more consistent way than Heyward’s did. There is a shit ton of space between super star and what Heyward played to.
 
Yes, and Heyward’s performance was like 5th-10th percentile outcome on that deal. Dansby’s glove makes them better now. His hard hit rate has increased virtually every year and his power has grown in a more consistent way than Heyward’s did. There is a shit ton of space between super star and what Heyward played to.
Personally where the Cubs are at and other needs. Signing him is a mistake. If u pony up a big contract u sign a Machado not a Hosmer for less but still big money. Swanson isn't a star. He's good but not great.
 
I’d really like to see them fill with free agents instead of trading. I like Jansen, but the price would have to right. Go with Swanson, Drury, Belt or Mancini, narvaez and I really want another SP.
 
I’d really like to see them fill with free agents instead of trading. I like Jansen, but the price would have to right. Go with Swanson, Drury, Belt or Mancini, narvaez and I really want another SP.
Wacha is a cheap alternative to some of these guys who have been getting 30 to 50 million.
 
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Yes, and Heyward’s performance was like 5th-10th percentile outcome on that deal. Dansby’s glove makes them better now. His hard hit rate has increased virtually every year and his power has grown in a more consistent way than Heyward’s did. There is a shit ton of space between super star and what Heyward played to.
Semi-serious question here as you, and others on the board, seem to dig much deeper than I have lately on what you think the Cubs front-office and league are doing.

Has there been any chatter about the Yankee's being serious about trading Torres? Maybe the Cubs can bring him back and leave Hoerner at SS. No clue if his value has held since he started playing 2nd; so maybe would have to give up too much. Just bored and a random thought.
 
Semi-serious question here as you, and others on the board, seem to dig much deeper than I have lately on what you think the Cubs front-office and league are doing.

Has there been any chatter about the Yankee's being serious about trading Torres? Maybe the Cubs can bring him back and leave Hoerner at SS. No clue if his value has held since he started playing 2nd; so maybe would have to give up too much. Just bored and a random thought.
The last I heard, the Mariners were interested in Torres, but they traded for Wong, so I’m guessing they are out. From what it sounded like to me when that rumor was floating is that the Yankees would be receptive to dealing him.
 
Cubs just need to catch lightening in a bottle.

Get lucky on a couple low key acquisitions, have a few guys see a "career" year, and Cardinals endure injury issues.

Likely...no. Possible...yep.
 
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Semi-serious question here as you, and others on the board, seem to dig much deeper than I have lately on what you think the Cubs front-office and league are doing.

Has there been any chatter about the Yankee's being serious about trading Torres? Maybe the Cubs can bring him back and leave Hoerner at SS. No clue if his value has held since he started playing 2nd; so maybe would have to give up too much. Just bored and a random thought.
I’ve heard a lot of chatter about Torres being available, but I haven’t seen any specific teams being involved or what kind of price the Yanks would be looking for (ML help vs. prospects, etc.).
 
Cubs just need to catch lightening in a bottle.

Get lucky on a couple low key acquisitions, have a few guys see a "career" year, and Cardinals endure injury issues.

Likely...no. Possible...yep.
And still finish 6 games behind the Brewers.
 
The Phillies, Mets, Cardinals, Braves, and Padres have all made fairly significant upgrades so far. And the Dodgers are the Dodgers.

You're either naive or ignoring the obvious. The odds of having the same six teams in 2023 as 2022 have to be extremely high.

Cubs goal will be 81-81.

Sorry for reality.
I don’t need a lesson from you regarding reality.

Let’s make a bet - If any of the NL postseason teams in ‘23 are different than the ones in ‘22, then you are forbidden from posting in the Official Cubs 2024 thread. If they are all the same, then I will start a thread every month Oct ‘23 - March ‘24 declaring @MitchLL HROT’s greatest poster.
 
I don’t need a lesson from you regarding reality.

Let’s make a bet - If any of the NL postseason teams in ‘23 are different than the ones in ‘22, then you are forbidden from posting in the Official Cubs 2024 thread. If they are all the same, then I will start a thread every month Oct ‘23 - March ‘24 declaring @MitchLL HROT’s greatest poster.
Hell...why not?

I'm in.

But you pretty much just made me a regular 2023 contributor.
 
Hell...why not?

I'm in.

But you pretty much just made me a regular 2023 contributor.
Only two teams probably have a decent chance of bumping one of last year's playoff teams. Milwaukee or San Fran.
 
That's fricken depressing.

Jed and the Ricketts are going to look like shit after this off season (they don't care). I hope the fans punish the team next season for this crap.

I don't follow closely, but will the Cubs 2023 salary be lower then 2022?
 
That's fricken depressing.

Jed and the Ricketts are going to look like shit after this off season (they don't care). I hope the fans punish the team next season for this crap.

I don't follow closely, but will the Cubs 2023 salary be lower then 2022?
Last year I thought it was around 150. This year as of right now is 130. 25 of it being dead Heyward money through.
 
The Ricketts family counts on fans like you and your blind allegiance.

Check the thread title...why you keep deflecting and referencing the team I root for?

The Cubs operate in, arguably, the worst division in MLB, and aren't competitive year in and year out.

The Ricketts are operating in the perfect storm. The ISU environment of low expectations.
They count on fans who call them shitty people and only go to away games and refuse to get marquee so they don't get a penny of my money? OK, dumbass. Luckily shitty people owning reasonably successful franchises is pretty common. Again, we shall see how things go these next few years. You'll probably disappear in 23 like you did second half of 24 when your team went to shit. What pathetic chokers you root for
 
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