PSU-OK STATE
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Is this the best the coaches could come up with to decide a dual champion?After the Hawks pound on NC State we'll have 2 undefeated teams and no true champion!I have an idea,lets rent Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis,pack it with about 50,000 fans and have Iowa and Penn State decides who's #1 on the mat!
Smith and his team could have just stayed home not because of the way the event went but because of the death in the family. We all know how much a wrestlers team mates feel about family. If Chandler Rogers had made the trip maybe Smith then would have moved Ringer up but way it was why risk Ringer losing out on his 74th win in a row and most likely the Hodge award. Many more important things with this than the farce of this tourney anyway.
Call me crazy, but isn't that the same line people used about Taylor and Ruth?
My dual thoughts...
Megaludis looked good, and Klimara looked slow, before the defensive fall looked to be on pace for a major or 6-7 pt decision for megaludis.
Gary wayne started off by giving up the quick TD then ridden pretty hard by a savvy conaway. I thought he competed pretty hard and might expect a closer match in a rematch.
Heil looked pretty gassed but I agreed with Gibbons comments that he was able to execute while tired and compete well in the short offense position, where Gulibon is pretty good from.
Collica made Zain look human, he was blatantly stalling on Top, and after the early TD wasn't able to get much offense going. Sorensen will be right there with Zain.
3rd string 57 lber got handled by Nolf, gave the fall while being down by 14 and in neutral went feet to back. Smith could have competed much better here. Nolf dominated.
Dieringer dominated, as expected.
Nickal dominated an outclassed lower weight backup, sad to hear about the Rogers situation. Would have been a fun match as he just knocked off #2 on friday 13-8, about the same as Nickal beat him at scuffle 11-7.
McCutcheon got injured, the fans were booing that it looked dirty, but it looked pretty clean to me, he was just scrambling, as Nolan Boyd is known to do, I've seen that same move done a hundred times in a scramble. Hope its not reinjured too bad and hes able to compete and B1G's, it looked like it got tweaked on the initial kneepad grab somehow.
McIntosh dominated pretty plain and simple.
Marsden didn't look too hot against a severely outmatched Jan Johnson, got taken down and looked about as gassed if not more gassed than Johnson at the end of the match, even when he majored him. Nevills could have made this a much more interesting match. Might've pulled the upset if his tank held up.
Megaludis looked good, and Klimara looked slow, before the defensive fall looked to be on pace for a major or 6-7 pt decision for megaludis.
Gary wayne started off by giving up the quick TD then ridden pretty hard by a savvy conaway. I thought he competed pretty hard and might expect a closer match in a rematch.
Heil looked pretty gassed but I agreed with Gibbons comments that he was able to execute while tired and compete well in the short offense position, where Gulibon is pretty good from.
Collica made Zain look human, he was blatantly stalling on Top, and after the early TD wasn't able to get much offense going. Sorensen will be right there with Zain.
3rd string 57 lber got handled by Nolf, gave the fall while being down by 14 and in neutral went feet to back. Smith could have competed much better here. Nolf dominated.
Dieringer dominated, as expected.
Nickal dominated an outclassed lower weight backup, sad to hear about the Rogers situation. Would have been a fun match as he just knocked off #2 on friday 13-8, about the same as Nickal beat him at scuffle 11-7.
McCutcheon got injured, the fans were booing that it looked dirty, but it looked pretty clean to me, he was just scrambling, as Nolan Boyd is known to do, I've seen that same move done a hundred times in a scramble. Hope its not reinjured too bad and hes able to compete and B1G's, it looked like it got tweaked on the initial kneepad grab somehow.
McIntosh dominated pretty plain and simple.
Marsden didn't look too hot against a severely outmatched Jan Johnson, got taken down and looked about as gassed if not more gassed than Johnson at the end of the match, even when he majored him. Nevills could have made this a much more interesting match. Might've pulled the upset if his tank held up.
Call me crazy, but I think you missed the joke/sarcasm...
You're not having a very good day posting here. You need a Timeout.
Any more of your smart mouth, ignmorant posts will get you put in the playpen with some of the PSU Trolls that visit here. You wouldn't want that now would you?
Either cancel this bogus NWCA tourny or series or whatever they want to call it to pull over on the College Wrestling community , or Do It Right !
A 4 or 8 team TRUE dual match tourny run over a 1 or 2 day weekend. It's obvious the coaches don't give a crap about it the way it's currently structured.
A 4 or 8 team TRUE dual match tourny run over a 1 or 2 day weekend. It's obvious the coaches don't give a crap about it the way it's currently structured.
How bad is that official? Smiths expression as the ref counted a 4 count with perpendicular shoulders was priceless. Zain should have been dinged multiple times. Nico looked as good as I have seen him but that was a bad call on the fall.
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The point is to determine the best Dual Match Team (a true team win) instead of the highest scoring team in a TOURNY based scoring format. This year it's easy to see Penn St is head and shoulders above the rest in either format, but most years it is not. A team with 3 or 4 high placed All Americans will always outscore a team of 10 guys who are in the 10-25 range in the tourny based format, but in a Dual Match, maybe not. Actually, probably not.
Like having a baseball game decided by home run derby , OR/AND total strikeouts vs a real baseball game.
Like having a baseball game decided by home run derby , OR/AND total strikeouts vs a real baseball game.
Is it? I think we have guys that can beat PSU at 9 of 10 weights head to head. In a dual I really like our chances.
The trophy was a farce. This weekend was great but it was nothing more than a bunch of really great dual over a few days.
I don't care if they ever have a duals champ. I love the duals that we have throughout the year. They mean a lot to me without a trophy or title attached to it. The Grapple on the Gridiron was one of the greatest wrestling events I have ever been to. And I love how they determine the team champs now. I love the NCAA tournament.
I say they keep doing what they did this year. I don't even need a matchup between Iowa and PSU if it happens to falls like it did this year. If the top teams meet great but if not I am fine with that.
They can do this and give a trophy out and it is good to get everyone ruffled up, but no one wants 3 or even 2 duals with the very top teams in 1 day at this time of year.
This was perfect. I hope we come out unharmed unlike PSU. We lost Brooks last year the same way and it cost us big.
We go into Nationals healthy I like our chances.
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A couple of match notes......
Not sure if it was picked up by the broadcast, but they announced a moment of silence for the death of Rogers' father and the blow to the Oakie nation.
Who am I to question Cael but I couldn't believe he sent Cutch back out after the first injury that the ref called a tech point for. It made a 12 point swing in the match score but much more importantly it was taking an uneccessary chance with his injury this close to much more important events than this pitiful attempt to determine some kind of dual meet champion..
This was the most fire I have seen from Gullibon all year. Maybe he is getting his head straight in time for the year end tournies. For his sake I hope so. No way I can imagine the pressure a 4x state champ feels when he wrestles for PSU.
I know we all value the lessons learned when we commit ourselves to this demanding sport. But I have to think that Jay Johnson, our "285" pounder has won a special spot in any wrestling fan's heart for the way he continues to give up 40-60 pounds a match and never quits.
But, mostly I echo the sentiments of most of those around me at Rec Hall who would much preferred to have the Hawks there instead of the Pokes. It would have actually meant something.
Not sure if it was picked up by the broadcast, but they announced a moment of silence for the death of Rogers' father and the blow to the Oakie nation.
Who am I to question Cael but I couldn't believe he sent Cutch back out after the first injury that the ref called a tech point for. It made a 12 point swing in the match score but much more importantly it was taking an uneccessary chance with his injury this close to much more important events than this pitiful attempt to determine some kind of dual meet champion..
This was the most fire I have seen from Gullibon all year. Maybe he is getting his head straight in time for the year end tournies. For his sake I hope so. No way I can imagine the pressure a 4x state champ feels when he wrestles for PSU.
I know we all value the lessons learned when we commit ourselves to this demanding sport. But I have to think that Jay Johnson, our "285" pounder has won a special spot in any wrestling fan's heart for the way he continues to give up 40-60 pounds a match and never quits.
But, mostly I echo the sentiments of most of those around me at Rec Hall who would much preferred to have the Hawks there instead of the Pokes. It would have actually meant something.
The rule is if the legs are in before bottom man is up it is a stalemate, not top stall.
I think it is one of the dumbest rules currently in the book.
Last week the Cruz kid from Lehigh did it repeatedly to Jimmy Gulibon. While Jimmy was standing there with Cruz clinging to him with a leg in and doing nothing but waiting on the stalemate whistle the Lehigh fans and bench were actually screaming for a stall call on the bottom man.
Abro is a Rutgers fan I believe, but I agree with you a dual is not a given for Penn St. It wouldn't shock me at all if Gilman, Clark, Grothus, Sorensen, Meyer, Brooks, Burak, and Stoll won. I don't know about Cooper and Rhoads realistically. Maybe Rhoads, but i wouldn't bet on it. Now I don't think they would all win at the same time, but they could. Burak has wrestled McIntosh incredibly close before, but McIntosh has had his number, Brooks and McCutcheon have split, but I would favor a healthy Brooks over a healthy McCutcheon, like in the dual last year. Meyer could most certainly beat Nickal, he could also just as easily lose, he would probably have to mount a comeback and win on the mat by riding Nickal like he has done to so many this season. Grothus and Gulibon is a tossup, even though Gulibon hasn't looked good, he has competed decently with Heil and Jordan when he goes. Zain is the favorite but Sorensen could knock him off. I think most of us feel good about Gilman and Clark this season against Megaludis and Conaway.
Not super probable, but its definitely possible.
you might want to lay down until that feeling passes. love the hawks since forever(50's)but PSU this year is so superior, let it go man.
First one is supposed to be a stalemate and the 2nd should have been stalling.
It should be a close race with a lot of action. No question your Hawks have a shot, as do the pokes, Ohio State, and NC State also. Don't count Cornell out if Garrett and Dean score a lot either.
This reminds me of Perry: Everyone calling for stalling and demanding he attack more, so he went ahead and attacked more and pounded Howe for the championship. Careful what you ask for with Zain...not questioning Sorenson's ability, he is right there and will have a crack at Zain in two weeks, then most likely the two will see each other again in NYC, which will be a much different venue than Carver Hawkeye. That's why they wrestle the matches.
I look forward to the Retherford/Collica rematch in the NCAA finals
Well he has been unable to finish what 3 matches this year because his body couldn't hold up? if I am a coach I tell my guy to go out and get into as many scrambles as you can.
After watching his body break down time and again this season I have to think he is going to have a heck of a time stringing any kind of run together in the post season.
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if Rutherford can get by Clagon
With Okie State's situation, they sure didn't need a ref calling two touch falls against and missing a possible one for, as well as a two second four count and a four count at a 96 degree angle. Guy was a horrible homie. Why can't we hire one like that? Retherford might have had a bad day, but he gave me some hope today. Even with all that, I still think PSU would beat us head-to-head, as much as I hate saying so. I hope we can step it up a notch or two this post-season instead of falling on our faces like we have the last five or six years. Yes, I said six, we underperformed about 25 points or so in 2010.
No one's fault, but . . . PSU and OSU was pretty anti-climatic. Six of the 10 weight classes were one sided (where PSU was strong OSU wasn't, and vice versa). Of the four contested matches, two were disappointing: McCutch unfortunately blew out his knee, and Klimera had a brain fart. Only 133 and 149 had any real drama, and even at those weights PSU's victory wasn't really in doubt after the first period, although 149 was closer than I expected. Hope Iowa and NC State put on a better show.
You can say that again
. Either way Megaludis was on his way to another convincing win regardless. Looked like it was going the direction of a major.
If that's the point, then this year's setup is a really, really bad way to do it. Though it wasn't perfect, the "National Duals" as it was run for many years previously was a much better way.
Besides that, I seriously disagree with the whole premise that the traditional way of deciding the team champion is somehow wrong.
Using the traditional tournament to decide the team champion isn't new, nor is it unusual. Wrestling has been doing it that way since the 20's. It's essentially the same way in track and in swimming and in tennis and in golf -- all other individual sports.
If you want to have a "dual meet champ" decided by a series of dual meets, fine. Get the NCAA to recognize it as an additional national title, and hold a true "dual meet tournament." But don't marginalize or deride the traditional tournament as a "home run derby," or a poor way to decide a team champion. It's absolutely not.
Don't look now but the PSU men's basketball team just took out Iowa's #4 ranked team last week!! With a very good recruiting class coming in we may develop a team that will build a fan base.
But I want tickets to that proposed dual in Indy! I like all who love wrestling think Iowa/PSU should happen every year even if the BIG is clueless enough not to work it out.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
The tech point was for grabbing the fabric around the base, and that had absolutely zero to do with any injury that happened in that moment. It wouldn't be a 12 point swing.
I'm confident Cutch would lose that match if it continued. The first TD was a farce.
McCutch didn't blow his knee out. Perhaps you were being figurative. It wasn't remotely close to going a bad direction in that match.
If you were wondering, it was the same referee who blew the quarterfinal matchup last year between Ian Miller and Brian Realbuto. Yes, he was counting nearfall at 90 degrees all dual long. He's probably going to be the first recipient of a protractor if I ever decide to (and get rich enough to) buy all of the referees in the country protractors for Christmas.
Drunk post level 9. How do you feel this morning?
125 - I think Gilman can beat Nico
133 - I think Clark can beat Conway
141 - I think Grothus can beat Guilbon
149 - I think Sorenson can beat Rutherford
165 - I think Rhoads can beat the PSU 165lber
174 - I think Alex Myers can beat Nickal ( In fact I think his style may be one of the better ones to wrestle Nickal)
184 - I think Brooks can beat McC
197 - I think Burak can beat Mac
HWT - I think Stoll can beat Nevills
None of these are stretches. Some I am more confident than others. If I believe this is the case why wouldn't we be able to beat them in a tournament or dual?
I do understand that PSU could run away with it, but I am not going to just chalk PSU in for a title. I have watched NCAA wrestling for almost 30 years. I have seen teams more talented than PSU falter at nationals. I have seen teams less talented than Iowa's peak in March and run away with it.
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Saw the match! Feel horrible for the Rogers family. I wrestled for Northwestern starting as a true frosh but dropped out of school for a semester for serious depression. My brother overdosed three days before my wedding and I was depressed again for months for that. My father died in a fire,where a kid also died,a month after we kicked him out of our house for starting it on fire. Both were alcoholics.Depression is more rampant on college campus's than people think. I have spent my life in the service of other's as a teacher, wrestling coach, and counselor. My books are currently on Northwestern's student services website. My sports psychology and spiritual books and video are a free download for anyone on here below. Prayers to the Roger's family.
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Here is an interview I did on the Dr. Foojan Zeine Show explaining Emotional Core Therapy (ECT). ECT is scientifically proven to be the simplest,most effective, and most inclusive psychology approach available worldwide to treat relationship stress ( addictions, eating disorders, depression, anxiety,etc) and gain inner peace and happiness. Scientific proof can only be done with the naked eye. Anyone can test my model for proof which is available in my book below. My training video on my blog also outlines ECT but is not as detailed as the downloadable book below.
My blog below has an article on Emotional Core Therapy and Scientific Evidence. This blog also has my free one hour training video, free download of my spiritual and golf and media links.
http://robertmoylanlcpc.blogspot.com
Press release
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-to-treat-psychological-stress-300153273.html
Here is free download of spiritual and golf book.
http://emotionalcoretherapy.com/read-online/
Only ECT effectively treats the root cause of stress of the Holmes and Rahe Scale (top stresses in one's life)! No other psychology approach treats the root cause of any stress one faces on a day to day basis. See below.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Lastly, this email complies with the mission statement of ABCT. We have an ethical duty as mental health professionals to bring the most effective psychology techniques and treatment models to our clients. We need to improve ECT and make it more user friendly. Please review the rules of scientific evidence and ECT in my book and on my blog. My spiritual book is for religious and secular/agnostic people alike. All one has to do is substitute mindfulness for prayer as the eighth step and disregard the religious references to have a completely secular approach. Over 50% of the American population prayers in some fashion and research demonstrates that prayer, mindfulness,and yoga, all work to calm down and quiet the central nervous system. I have three books available on Amazon without religious references. One for adults, one for teens,and one for golfers.
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