Replacements for Tom…

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

Folks,

We finished 5.5 points out of 2nd place. The 3 suspended starters would've made up those points. We wrestled 4 spots higher than our seedings. We have 2 studs that have 4 years to wrestle in Arnold and Keuter. I believe the Ferrari brothers will wrestle for us. And we WILL HAVE Nelson back next year. The Sky is not falling..

We wrestled above our seeding because we had a few bad losses during the year and shit the mat at the B10s. We could only go up.

And do those 3 suspended starters net us those points? Are you positive? Nelson and PK are the same wrestler, it's a wash. Maybe Nelson lands on the podium, maybe not.

Assad? Could make the podium and could also go 1-2 and out like Glazier.

I'd certainly have high hopes with Cass, but as we saw with Bastida, anything can happen.

But even having those 3 guys in the lineup this year doesn't fix our problems and they sure as shit won't help next year when we're down even more.

 

[TailgateTom]

Folks,

We finished 5.5 points out of 2nd place. The 3 suspended starters would've made up those points. We wrestled 4 spots higher than our seedings. We have 2 studs that have 4 years to wrestle in Arnold and Keuter. I believe the Ferrari brothers will wrestle for us. And we WILL HAVE Nelson back next year. The Sky is not falling..

Thank God we can assume our rightful place as the tallest midget. All is well, friends.

 

[Drake__Mallard]

Why does something you don't believe in bother you so much? It's creepy actually and I'm not even particularly religious. I don't give a rat's behind what anyone's beliefs are. They are welcome to them as long as they don't infringe on my rights.

If someone said hail satan, there would be backlash. That’s my issue with it all. Going on and on about religion isn’t necessary.

 

[cjr1310]

We wrestled above our seeding because we had a few bad losses during the year and shit the mat at the B10s. We could only go up.

And do those 3 suspended starters net us those points? Are you positive? Nelson and PK are the same wrestler, it's a wash. Maybe Nelson lands on the podium, maybe not.

Assad? Could make the podium and could also go 1-2 and out like Glazier.

I'd certainly have high hopes with Cass, but as we saw with Bastida, anything can happen.

But even having those 3 guys in the lineup this year doesn't fix our problems and they sure as shit won't help next year when we're down even more.

I don’t think those three scoring 5.5 more points is a stretch at all. Cass and Brands have been All Americans already, certainly not a stretch to project at least one of them there again. Assad would have been replacing Riggins who DNQ so any wins would have been more points.

The bigger question is does Iowa have Calliendo and Franek without the suspensions. My guess is no since there were returning starters at 157 and 165. The argument that we were a clear second without the suspensions looks a lot different if you take them out of the equation.

 

[wahlberg]

Folks,

We finished 5.5 points out of 2nd place. The 3 suspended starters would've made up those points. We wrestled 4 spots higher than our seedings. We have 2 studs that have 4 years to wrestle in Arnold and Keuter. I believe the Ferrari brothers will wrestle for us. And we WILL HAVE Nelson back next year. The Sky is not falling..

Who cares about 2nd? Is that the goal now? We finished 105.5 points out of 1st. That’s the number that actually matters. When’s the last time we were 105.5 points behind 1st place? The sky IS falling. Some are just too asleep to notice. Time to wake up.

 

[pawrestler4life]

Who cares about 2nd? Is that the goal now? We finished 105.5 points out of 1st. That’s the number that actually matters. When’s the last time we were 105.5 points behind 1st place? The sky IS falling. Some are just too asleep to notice. Time to wake up.

I can see both sides of this and agree on both. While the results/finish were positive given circumstances with missing 3 potential starters and point scorers, on the other hand no team trophy and an exponential gap to being on top.. Change is needed. In what way and to what capacity, I don’t know for sure. Definitely in regards to style and our approach to training throughout the season. I’ve been on both ends, competing and coaching collegiately, and the biggest obstacle to staying the best always involve adaptation. This seems to be something that isn’t happening in house right now

 

[MSU158]

Who cares about 2nd? Is that the goal now? We finished 105.5 points out of 1st. That’s the number that actually matters. When’s the last time we were 105.5 points behind 1st place? The sky IS falling. Some are just too asleep to notice. Time to wake up.

To be fair and accurate, PSU broke the scoring record. So, yeah, they were going to beat ANYONE by a lot. Still, add in Cass, Brands and Assad and Iowa would have flirted with scoring 100 and almost certainly would have put scored the rest by quite a bit.

The simple truth is, this isn’t remotely just an Iowa failing thing. It is MOSTLY a PSU succeeding thing. You can place blame on Brands all you want. But, NO COACH was stopping what PSU has become since they hired Sanderson.

I think many are simply using the gap with PSU to fuel their already formed dislike of Brands. They are admittedly very polarizing. I believe this is especially true because there is NO apparent fix. Everyone that wants him gone just regurgitates names with zero proven track record and, even worse, some of them have clearly expressed they have NO desire to coach.

Change for the simple sake of change is never a recipe I would endorse…

 

[Fan In Black]

The problem/danger with using the "everyone is way behind PSU" reasoning is we lose sight of the fact we shouldn't be okay being mixed in with programs like Michigan, Cornell, ASU, NC STATE, ISU etc... and that's where we are. Heck an argument could easily be made that a couple on that list have passed us if you really watched their guys vs ours.
The other thing that is so noticeable and concerning is the gaps between the individual champions and our guy at that weight...
125 - Figerunna/Drake - we're right there and should be assuming Drake stays at 125.
133 - light years behind with no change in sight.
141 - woods should have been in the mix but he came back weaker and made no improvements from last year so it was clear he wasn't in the mix. No clear plan in sight.
149 - light years behind with no clear gains on the best in sight.
157 - light years behind with no clear gains on the best in sight.
165 - Cali is the best of the 2nd tier which is great, but he's not winning a championship as long as messenbrink or Haines are there.
174 - we'll see, hopefully Gabe is championship material but unknown right now.
184 - light years behind with a high school sr being our best hope in the future.
197 - light years behind with no clear gains in sight.
Hwt - we have a part time undersized hwt and a back up with no clear plan in sight.
Again, this is IOWA. We came to the tourney with best case 1 possible champion and that was in a weak young weight class. The gambling issues didn't change that fact. No one should be okay with that.

this should be pinned to the top of the board and an automatic replay to anyone who is still optimistic about overtaking PSU

 

[TailgateTom]

To be fair and accurate, PSU broke the scoring record. So, yeah, they were going to beat ANYONE by a lot. Still, add in Cass, Brands and Assad and Iowa would have flirted with scoring 100 and almost certainly would have put scored the rest by quite a bit.

The simple truth is, this isn’t remotely just an Iowa failing thing. It is MOSTLY a PSU succeeding thing. You can place blame on Brands all you want. But, NO COACH was stopping what PSU has become since they hired Sanderson.

I think many are simply using the gap with PSU to fuel their already formed dislike of Brands. They are admittedly very polarizing. I believe this is especially true because there is NO apparent fix. Everyone that wants him gone just regurgitates names with zero proven track record and, even worse, some of them have clearly expressed they have NO desire to coach.

Change for the simple sake of change is never a recipe I would endorse…

Let me ask you something....what is it, specifically, that Brands has done as far as recruiting and developing that leads you to believe he can get it done? No one is asking for a change for the sake of change. We're asking for a change for the sake of what we're doing isn't and hasn't been working. If it's Brands at the helm doing it, great! I truly do love Brands, and am on record here saying as much. However, he's clearly either unwilling or unable.

 

[Random4598375]

I don’t think those three scoring 5.5 more points is a stretch at all. Cass and Brands have been All Americans already, certainly not a stretch to project at least one of them there again. Assad would have been replacing Riggins who DNQ so any wins would have been more points.

The bigger question is does Iowa have Calliendo and Franek without the suspensions. My guess is no since there were returning starters at 157 and 165. The argument that we were a clear second without the suspensions looks a lot different if you take them out of the equation.

Recruiting Franek (and Caliendo by association) was more of a response to losing Chittum to the Ferrari debacle than it was a response to the suspensions. They had already recruited over Siebrecht with Chittum.

 

[wahlberg]

To be fair and accurate, PSU broke the scoring record. So, yeah, they were going to beat ANYONE by a lot. Still, add in Cass, Brands and Assad and Iowa would have flirted with scoring 100 and almost certainly would have put scored the rest by quite a bit.

The simple truth is, this isn’t remotely just an Iowa failing thing. It is MOSTLY a PSU succeeding thing. You can place blame on Brands all you want. But, NO COACH was stopping what PSU has become since they hired Sanderson.

I think many are simply using the gap with PSU to fuel their already formed dislike of Brands. They are admittedly very polarizing. I believe this is especially true because there is NO apparent fix. Everyone that wants him gone just regurgitates names with zero proven track record and, even worse, some of them have clearly expressed they have NO desire to coach.

Change for the simple sake of change is never a recipe I would endorse…

MAYBE we outscore the rest of the field with those guys in the lineup. MAYBE we ‘flirt with 100 points’ with those guys in the lineup. We’ll never know. Before this season, people around here would have said Woods was going to be a finalist again (and likely win it all). Instead, he lost to Lachlan McNeil and Brock Hardy. Going into the previous year, how many Hawk fans would have had Spencer Lee taking 6th? It’s difficult to count imaginary chickens accurately.

 

[hogghawk]

Recruiting Franek (and Caliendo by association) was more of a response to losing Chittum to the Ferrari debacle than it was a response to the suspensions. They had already recruited over Siebrecht with Chittum.

I like watching Siebrecht, but he is not going to take us to the top of the leader board. Longshot to ever All American. I would hope that our staff would try to bring in one of the top recruits in the nation if the possibility is there. You cannot call that recruiting over.I don't believe they sought out the oldest two Ferrari's either. I would say that was the other way around.

 

[Grip220]

I would rather have valid discussions with some of the PSU trolls then some of you clowns. My recommendation for some of you so called Hawk fans is check your egos at the door or find another team.
I will say it again, by next season we are the clear #2 team. The Hawks will be rocking in Philly and I will be there!
Maybe I will sit with some Hawk fans that appreciate the team and the coaches as much as I do. There are still a few of us out there!

SEE you at the trials, anyone want to grab a beer there and talk about next years team hit me up.

 

[wahlberg]

I would rather have valid discussions with some of the PSU trolls then some of you clowns. My recommendation for some of you so called Hawk fans is check your egos at the door or find another team.
I will say it again, by next season we are the clear #2 team. The Hawks will be rocking in Philly and I will be there!
Maybe I will sit with some Hawk fans that appreciate the team and the coaches as much as I do. There are still a few of us out there!

SEE you at the trials, anyone want to grab a beer there and talk about next years team hit me up.

We’re going to be #2?!? Mission accomplished baby!!! How dare anyone question anything! We’re going to be #2 y’all! (And we know this for a fact because Grip said so).

 

[Random4598375]

I like watching Siebrecht, but he is not going to take us to the top of the leader board. Longshot to ever All American. I would hope that our staff would try to bring in one of the top recruits in the nation if the possibility is there. You cannot call that recruiting over.I don't believe they sought out the oldest two Ferrari's either. I would say that was the other way around.

It is definitely recruiting over, but it happens all the time. If you can get a recruit that will make your team better, you get him.

 

[herkyhawk00]

Clearly its Bubba Jenkins… the only person to show up in March against PSU..

Tell me Im wrong, ass hats.

Brands doesn’t need to go. He needs to replace Telford and Morningstar

 

[hogghawk]

It is definitely recruiting over, but it happens all the time. If you can get a recruit that will make your team better, you get him.

I don't know what Cobe's high school ranking was on the big board. What was it?

 

[Fan In Black]

he talks about fire power. Posters talk about hammers. They are not recruiting that level of talent.

every F year there is a thread started about the top prospects. And then it fades and none of the wrestlers that the majority consider blue chips end up at Iowa.

A few did:
Lee did. He delivered.
Jesuroga did. Then quit wrestling.
Chittum did. Then transfered.
Kueter did. and then played football.

That's 4 guys over 5 years. 1 finished here. .5 are still on roster. PSU gets 4 every year.

 

[wahlberg]

Brands doesn’t need to go. He needs to replace Telford and Morningstar

That will accomplish next to nothing because assistant coaches are expected to be yes-men for Brands.

 

[herkyhawk00]

That will accomplish next to nothing because assistant coaches are expected to be yes-men for Brands.

I don’t believe that. You get two noteworthy and high profile assistants, preferably one from PSU, and you add different things to the program. Brands isn’t a robot and knows there are other things his wrestlers can be doing,

 

[SPOONER]

Folks,

We finished 5.5 points out of 2nd place. The 3 suspended starters would've made up those points. We wrestled 4 spots higher than our seedings. We have 2 studs that have 4 years to wrestle in Arnold and Keuter. I believe the Ferrari brothers will wrestle for us. And we WILL HAVE Nelson back next year. The Sky is not falling..

That was a big loss in points. Maybe as many as 25. Which still puts us a solid 80 points behind PSU and roughly half the points they scored. And also a full SEVEN years without an NCAA champ not named Spencer Lee.

And the Ferrari’s are your answer? Yeesh.

If you think that’s at all acceptable I guess we don’t have much to talk about.

 

[johnyt9]

Folks,

We finished 5.5 points out of 2nd place. The 3 suspended starters would've made up those points. We wrestled 4 spots higher than our seedings. We have 2 studs that have 4 years to wrestle in Arnold and Keuter. I believe the Ferrari brothers will wrestle for us. And we WILL HAVE Nelson back next year. The Sky is not falling..

The problem is nobody wants the Ferrarri brothers. We just want the youngest one

 

[TailgateTom]

I don’t believe that. You get two noteworthy and high profile assistants, preferably one from PSU, and you add different things to the program. Brands isn’t a robot and knows there are other things his wrestlers can be doing,

Read his previous post on the subject.

 

[wahlberg]

I don’t believe that. You get two noteworthy and high profile assistants, preferably one from PSU, and you add different things to the program. Brands isn’t a robot and knows there are other things his wrestlers can be doing,

Believe what you want. I’m telling you how it is.

 

[lrtbahawk]

Believe what you want. I’m telling you how it is.

Sounds like you are a soured former Hawk wrestler that has an agenda. No one on earth can catch Cael so the fight for second is what matters and we would've been there without the gambling suspensions.

 

[cjr1310]

Sounds like you are a soured former Hawk wrestler that has an agenda. No one on earth can catch Cael so the fight for second is what matters and we would've been there without the gambling suspensions.

The no one can catch Carl sentiment is why I think you need to do something bold if you’re Iowa. I know Burroughs, Dake, Taylor, and maybe Askren have never been college coaches but those are names with enough cache to move the needle imo, especially if they can bring in some big name assistants with them.

I get the argument that there are no other head coaches with a better resume but there have been many examples of guys taking over programs in their late 20’s with only a few years as assistants. With the RTC’s these guys are around college programs and know how practices are run. If Iowa is going to make a change that’s the list I would start with.

 

[MVPFAN]

Sounds like you are a soured former Hawk wrestler that has an agenda. No one on earth can catch Cael so the fight for second is what matters and we would've been there without the gambling suspensions.

So Tom is changing from battling the universe to the fight for second is all that matters?

 

[wahlberg]

Sounds like you are a soured former Hawk wrestler that has an agenda. No one on earth can catch Cael so the fight for second is what matters and we would've been there without the gambling suspensions.

Sounds like you’ve given up. And my only agenda is the truth. You think I’m sour because I tell it. I think that says more about you than it does about me.

 

[Pennstate1985]

The no one can catch Carl sentiment is why I think you need to do something bold if you’re Iowa. I know Burroughs, Dake, Taylor, and maybe Askren have never been college coaches but those are names with enough cache to move the needle imo, especially if they can bring in some big name assistants with them.

I get the argument that there are no other head coaches with a better resume but there have been many examples of guys taking over programs in their late 20’s with only a few years as assistants. With the RTC’s these guys are around college programs and know how practices are run. If Iowa is going to make a change that’s the list I would start with.

Cael doesn't run the day to day practices. His assistants do. He's involved of course but he's not rolling with 37 guys every day. He's the big idea guy and the face of recruiting. So you hire the face of the program with very good organizational skills and hire assistants to run practice under your direction who believe in your philosophy..

This is also why you can't hire assistants like Dake or DT or Burroughs to work under TnT. They don't believe in Tom's philosophy and wouldn't mesh well. So really it's an all or nothing proposition. You either keep what you have or clean house. Middle ground doesn't work. I think that is what Wahlberg is saying.

 

[cidhawkeye]

I thought you left?

The Kadyn Proctor of posters

 

[Random4598375]

he talks about fire power. Posters talk about hammers. They are not recruiting that level of talent.

every F year there is a thread started about the top prospects. And then it fades and none of the wrestlers that the majority consider blue chips end up at Iowa.

A few did:
Lee did. He delivered.
Jesuroga did. Then quit wrestling.
Chittum did. Then transfered.
Kueter did. and then played football.

That's 4 guys over 5 years. 1 finished here. .5 are still on roster. PSU gets 4 every year.

Marinelli, Kemmerer, and PK were top 5 recruits in their classes. Ayala was a blue chip recruit as well, and Gabe Arnold. I’m sure there are more. I’d have to check, but Iowa s as many blue chip recruits as any school except PSU.

 

[WildTurk]

So much hot air being blasted. Lies and assumptions. You make things up, type it out and then believe yourself.

 

[Pennstate1985]

The idea from the other thread about going after DT post olympics makes sense in that DT has a successful wrestling/coaching business, so that qualifies him as having good organizational/CEO skills. He probably knows in his mind who he would want as assistants and how he would run things. His only downside really is not knowing the ins and outs of collegiate athletics from an admin perspective but that can be learned.

 

[Random4598375]

Cael doesn't run the day to day practices. His assistants do. He's involved of course but he's not rolling with 37 guys every day. He's the big idea guy and the face of recruiting. So you hire the face of the program with very good organizational skills and hire assistants to run practice under your direction who believe in your philosophy..

This is also why you can't hire assistants like Dake or DT or Burroughs to work under TnT. They don't believe in Tom's philosophy and wouldn't mesh well. So really it's an all or nothing proposition. You either keep what you have or clean house. Middle ground doesn't work. I think that is what Wahlberg is saying.

Someone like DT knows how the whole Penn State program is run from youth to college to RTC to MMA. It’s not just Penn State, it’s M2 and NLWC and the MMA academy. Guys like DT have the bigger picture of how it all fits together and how to set up everything. Recruiting includes all facets of the big program. If DT wins another Olympic gold, he’d be able to match Carl’s recruiting gravitas as well. Lack of head coaching experience is less important than everything else. He can hire assistants (like Cael has with Casey) who are experienced wrestling coaches.

 

[SPOONER]

Sounds like you are a soured former Hawk wrestler that has an agenda. No one on earth can catch Cael so the fight for second is what matters and we would've been there without the gambling suspensions.

Your expectation for this program is to just scrape past the 3rd place team? That’s your measuring stick?

The only guy to win an NCAA title for Iowa since 2017 is a guy who walked in the door as a generational talent. That’s the same number as ISU over that timespan. UNI has produced more.

This isn’t some sort of alarm for you?

With Iowa's resources they should be producing 100+ points and multiple finalists/champs on an anlmost annual basis.

 

[MVPFAN]

Marinelli, Kemmerer, and PK were top 5 recruits in their classes. Ayala was a blue chip recruit as well, and Gabe Arnold. I’m sure there are more. I’d have to check, but Iowa s as many blue chip recruits as any school except PSU.

I don't think Kem was top 5. Warner was a blue chip. They get some blue chips but what have they gotten out of them? Are the blue chips they choose good for success choices? Bull, PK and Warner all kind of hand fighting grinder types. 1 time in a final between the 3 of them and lost that. Kem was a athletic and a complete wrestler. This year it's no coincidence that Ayala, Woods and Calliendo, who did the best this weekend, are the 3 most athletic guys in the lineup.

 

[hawk224]

I’ve been a big Brands fan, but at some point people need to acknowledge he’s not getting it done. The lack of development is a huge red flag.

 

[Random4598375]

I don't think Kem was top 5. Warner was a blue chip. They get some blue chips but what have they gotten out of them? Are the blue chips they choose good for success choices? Bull, PK and Warner all kind of hand fighting grinder types. 1 time in a final between the 3 of them and lost that. Kem was a athletic and a complete wrestler. This year it's no coincidence that Ayala, Woods and Calliendo, who did the best this weekend, are the 3 most athletic guys in the lineup.

What they did with the blue chip recruits is a different issue. People who say that Cael only recruits and survives on blue chip recruits and not developing talent or coaching are missing the comparative production PSU gets out of their blue chip recruits.

 

[Jcchawk]

He is eligible for a medical and couldn’t apply until the season is over.

Why does anyone think Nelson Brands is a serious contender at 184?

 

[Random4598375]

Why does anyone think Nelson Brands is a serious contender at 184?

Serious contender for what? A national title? Not likely. A serious contender to AA and the best option Iowa has next year while Angelo takes a RS year to grow into the weight? Yes, absolutely.