Replacements for Tom…

[Sullivan]

The idea from the other thread about going after DT post olympics makes sense in that DT has a successful wrestling/coaching business, so that qualifies him as having good organizational/CEO skills. He probably knows in his mind who he would want as assistants and how he would run things. His only downside really is not knowing the ins and outs of collegiate athletics from an admin perspective but that can be learned.

You can pretty much scratch DT from your list. DT has deep roots in the State College area. Given his success and enjoyment that he and his family have experienced, I doubt he'd be willing to come to Iowa for anything less than $1 million per year, complete control over the program, and a long-term commitment.

And that would be on top of additional assistant coach funding, significant additional club funding, etc.

At this point, I don't see Iowa willing to make that type of commitment.

 

[MSU158]

MAYBE we outscore the rest of the field with those guys in the lineup. MAYBE we ‘flirt with 100 points’ with those guys in the lineup. We’ll never know. Before this season, people around here would have said Woods was going to be a finalist again (and likely win it all). Instead, he lost to Lachlan McNeil and Brock Hardy. Going into the previous year, how many Hawk fans would have had Spencer Lee taking 6th? It’s difficult to count imaginary chickens accurately.

Cass’s track record should give everyone extreme confidence he alone would have scored enough to ensure 2nd. Even the year he was injured he placed. Don't be disingenuous. You know damn well the odds are overwhelmingly in Iowa's favor that they score AT LEAST the 6 points necessary to pass MI for 2nd and almost certainly solidly into double digits...

 

[MSU158]

Why does anyone think Nelson Brands is a serious contender at 184?

Serious contender for what? A national title? Not likely. A serious contender to AA and the best option Iowa has next year while Angelo takes a RS year to grow into the weight? Yes, absolutely.

Maybe the fact that he beat Dustin Plott(took 2nd at 184 this year) the very last match of the prior year has something to do with that.....but, hey, lets not use actual facts for an argument when feelings make our ability to continue a negative narrative easier...

 

[Rotisserie Scrotz]

I’ve been a big Brands fan, but at some point people need to acknowledge he’s not getting it done. The lack of development is a huge red flag.

This concern is so overblown. I’m hearing from a credible excuse-maker that Tom’s been preoccupied overseeing development of the new facility, complete with a really cool tunnel.

By 2026:
• The tunnel will recruit Top10 p4ps.
• The facility will develop them.
• Tom will then be freed-up to make sure his wrestlers attend mandatory NCAA rules compliance meetings.

By 2028, we dethrone PSU. Spencer takes the reigns in 2029, and Iowa begins a new dynasty like no one has ever seen before.

Relax, it’s all under control. We have a plan.

 

[Pennstate1985]

This concern is so overblown. I’m hearing from a credible excuse-maker that Tom’s been preoccupied overseeing development of the new facility, complete with a really cool tunnel.

By 2026:
• The tunnel will recruit Top10 p4ps.
• The facility will develop them.
• Tom will then be freed-up to make sure his wrestlers attend mandatory NCAA rules compliance meetings.

By 2028, we dethrone PSU. Spencer takes the reigns in 2029, and Iowa begins a new dynasty like no one has ever seen before.

Relax, it’s all under control. We have a plan.

You forgot to mention that the facility will develop them by using self learning robotic wrestlers as training partners to free up the coaches for recruiting.

 

[Rotisserie Scrotz]

You forgot to mention that the facility will develop them by using self learning robotic wrestlers as training partners to free up the coaches for recruiting.

I didn’t forget sh*t. The tunnel does the recruiting. Tom can focus on only one thing at a time, and we need him to babysit.
Now GTFO and go enjoy your celebration.

 

[Aardvark86]

My overall take, as an outsider:

1. Tom has been an excellent coach, and that really cannot be emphasized enough. On balance, I was very impressed with how he developed ADS personally and competitively - exceeded my expectations notwithstanding a bump in the road here and there.
2. Iowa is still a fantastic platform from which to operate, even if there are small gaps here and there to plug on the pre-college/college/post-college continuum.
3. Like in many sports, the competitive style has changed to something more offensive-minded, for a variety of reasons. (Just consider, for example, the shift in behavioral incentives associated with the 3 point takedown.) I think some serious soul-searching needs to be done regarding the willingness and ability to adapt. Personally, I think at the end of the day Tom can because...see above #1. But if he's not going to, well...
4. Beyond that, while wrestling is still fundamentally a "hard man's" sport, on the whole, the early technical development and mindset of modern young athletes has changed, and will continue to with NIL (and whatever comes after NIL). Yes, there will always be athletes that respond primarily to the "toughness" message, perhaps even more in wrestling than in other sports. But from where I sit, that's a shrinking pool in an otherwise growing market of talent, which is a hard path to maintaining oligarch status.
5. And beyond that, if you look across sports, that's a coaching model that is fading away, in part because of #4. Consider, for example Mike Babcock and Pat Fitzgerald - hell, we're even going to have a hit piece on a women's basketball coach in the next few weeks that'll probably go down that road. Now to be clear, I don't think Tom has crossed any lines in terms of being abusive toward athletes, and I think he cares about his athletes way too much to ever do so. But the danger is, that line is moving in terms of perceptions.
6. Finally, call me crazy, but while Tom is an incredibly passionate and colorful guy, he sometimes comes across as a little bit unhinged. People notice that. He's great in pre-match pressers, and probably needs a little management post-match.

 

[jack66]

Returning points

PSU 113 (Without Carter and SVN), OSU 62 (Without Sasso), Nebraska 53, ASU 47.5, Iowa 41.5 (Without Brands), VaTech 41.5

It will take a monumental effort/$$$ in the portal for any team to close the gap.

 

[bourbon n blues]

My overall take, as an outsider:

1. Tom has been an excellent coach, and that really cannot be emphasized enough. On balance, I was very impressed with how he developed ADS personally and competitively - exceeded my expectations notwithstanding a bump in the road here and there.
2. Iowa is still a fantastic platform from which to operate, even if there are small gaps here and there to plug on the pre-college/college/post-college continuum.
3. Like in many sports, the competitive style has changed to something more offensive-minded, for a variety of reasons. (Just consider, for example, the shift in behavioral incentives associated with the 3 point takedown.) I think some serious soul-searching needs to be done regarding the willingness and ability to adapt. Personally, I think at the end of the day Tom can because...see above #1. But if he's not going to, well...
4. Beyond that, while wrestling is still fundamentally a "hard man's" sport, on the whole, the early technical development and mindset of modern young athletes has changed, and will continue to with NIL (and whatever comes after NIL). Yes, there will always be athletes that respond primarily to the "toughness" message, perhaps even more in wrestling than in other sports. But from where I sit, that's a shrinking pool in an otherwise growing market of talent, which is a hard path to maintaining oligarch status.
5. And beyond that, if you look across sports, that's a coaching model that is fading away, in part because of #4. Consider, for example Mike Babcock and Pat Fitzgerald - hell, we're even going to have a hit piece on a women's basketball coach in the next few weeks that'll probably go down that road. Now to be clear, I don't think Tom has crossed any lines in terms of being abusive toward athletes, and I think he cares about his athletes way too much to ever do so. But the danger is, that line is moving in terms of perceptions.
6. Finally, call me crazy, but while Tom is an incredibly passionate and colorful guy, he sometimes comes across as a little bit unhinged. People notice that.

I'd say a fair take as another outsider. I'll add that the older I got, the less of that almost angry motivation worked for me. I spent a lot of time until I found what worked the best for me and it was simple. I chose this, I love this, so do it hard. So why not put out great effort pout of joy not out of some fear of failure or beating or breaking the other guy. All I can do is my best and if that is accomplished I have succeeded.

This mindset works and helps guys bonce back quicker from a loss or a set back. Just ten days ago I suffered a pretty bad injury from a trip and fall. I tripped on a dumbbell on my monolift and fell forward and hit my face off another dumbbell. I suffered a maxillary fracture near my nose and fractured my nasal bone also. Luckily I broke my fall safely, relatively speaking and I did not suffer a concussion, neck injury, wrist, elbow or shoulder injury, or amore severe head injury. As soon as the ER doc said surgery probably wasn't needed I started planning on getting back to activity safely. The grateful mindset helps you move forward easily when you have performance or injury set backs. At least for me.

 

[Aardvark86]

I'd say a fair take as another outsider. I'll add that the older I got, the less of that almost angry motivation worked for me. I spent a lot of time until I found what worked the best for me and it was simple. I chose this, I love this, so do it hard. So why not put out great effort pout of joy not out of some fear of failure or beating or breaking the other guy. All I can do is my best and if that is accomplished I have succeeded.

This mindset works and helps guys bonce back quicker from a loss or a set back. Just ten days ago I suffered a pretty bad injury from a trip and fall. I tripped on a dumbbell on my monolift and fell forward and hit my face off another dumbbell. I suffered a maxillary fracture near my nose and fractured my nasal bone also. Luckily I broke my fall safely, relatively speaking and I did not suffer a concussion, neck injury, wrist, elbow or shoulder injury, or amore severe head injury. As soon as the ER doc said surgery probably wasn't needed I started planning on getting back to activity safely. The grateful mindset helps you move forward easily when you have performance or injury set backs. At least for me.

dude, sorry to hear of the mishap!

In other news, just put a contract on a house in lexington, Va

 

[vhsalum]

At this point, I don't see Iowa willing to make that type of commitment.

You'd be wrong.

 

[Sullivan]

You'd be wrong.

We shall see.

 

[Pennstate1985]

We shall see.

I think what Vhsalum is saying is that Iowa may be willing to agree to the terms you outlined. I don't feel they are farfetched for a program looking to return to the top. If I'm the AD, I've already accepted that change is going to cost me more than my outlay today. Maybe an extra $600-800k in coaches salaries annually. A couple deep pocket alumni could swallow that whole and since it's DT, kick in a few coins for an elite RTC to boot.

 

[TarpHawk]

Marinelli, Kemmerer, and PK were top 5 recruits in their classes. Ayala was a blue chip recruit as well, and Gabe Arnold. I’m sure there are more. I’d have to check, but Iowa s as many blue chip recruits as any school except PSU.

For 2020 - 2024 classes, Penn State signed 12 top-10 P4P recruits. Ohio St signed 6, Iowa 5 (Kennedy, Ayala, Arnold, Kueter & Ferrari), Okie State 4, Wisconsin 3, Minn 3, Mizzou 2, VT 2, Cornell 2, NC St 2, and 7 others (incl Mich) signed 1.

Chittum disappeared from the Big Board, but Iowa would have 6 if he were included--and 7 with Jesuroga, who also dropped off the final Big Board rankings. A lot of asterisks there (including one for Kueter if you're so inclined).

Everyone is far behind Penn State, with less separation between the next several teams. Iowa is in that second tier. Just like NCAA results.

This also doesn't tell the other half of the story, which is the portal. I presume the results would look fairly similar to P4P--Penn State with the pick of the litter, followed by several others including Iowa.

I'm not happy with 5th, but the case for "poor recruiting" is not cut and dried. Let's see how we do next year with possibly all 5 of those guys in the lineup.

I do know that we're not going to go from 60 points to 160 points in a year. But we DESPERATELY need a plan to get to 100--consistently, as a base--and build from there.

Tom has not been able to top 100 points more than once in the past ten years. You absolutely cannot be in contention for NCAA titles without that, with or without Penn State. Can he do it? What's the plan? Let's hear it. Let's see it.

Otherwise, we need someone who does have a plan.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

That will accomplish next to nothing because assistant coaches are expected to be yes-men for Brands.

100% agree. While Brands is the captain, our assistants are super involved. Mstar is the lead recruiter and it's impossible to not see his fingerprints on our middle weights and Bobby on the big guys.
It's sucks we're talking about replacing those two bc they're really good guys but results speak for themselves.

 

[Hawkgma]

We shall see.

I don't think he is saying Iowa will get him,, I think he is saying Iowa is willing to make that type of commitment for him. He might not ever want to come even with what Iowa will throw at him.

 

[hogghawk]

Dt is nothing but rumors at this time anyways. I believe it’s all bs.I do think a million dollars is no big deal in today’s world of athletics, especially when your talking the history of the iowa wrestling program. It brings in more revenue than any other wrestling program in the nation. Not saying it is 100 percent self supporting, but it does better than any other program. I think the changes need to start with 1. Strength and conditioning program needs overhauled. 2. Restructuring of our assistant coaches. To many guys wrestling just the way they did in college. More offensive wrestling is needed from both the feet and being able to ride. 3. Much better recruiting. We all love the feel good stories about the walk on/room guy making the stand,But it’s about a 5 percent chance of happening anymore. If Tom isn’t willing to change, then it’s time to move on. Time for Beth to put her boots on.

 

[Grip220]

We’re going to be #2?!? Mission accomplished baby!!! How dare anyone question anything! We’re going to be #2 y’all! (And we know this for a fact because Grip said so).

Little wager smart ass???

 

[Grip220]

I’ve been a big Brands fan, but at some point people need to acknowledge he’s not getting it done. The lack of development is a huge red flag.

Changes are needed for sure, replacement of TnT is not one of them!

 

[wahlberg]

Little wager smart ass???

No. You're missing my point(s). I want the hawks to do awesome. I'm never betting against them. But, your promises about next year are meaningless at this time. The main point though, is that you're trying to silence anyone who thinks it's time for TnT to be replaced and you back your statements with the pronouncement that we're going to place 2nd next year (as if that's the goal). Did you forget that the aim is to place 1st?

 

[anon_4lz6x5o7izepf]

Changes are needed for sure, replacement of TnT is not one of them!

I grew up watching the Brands bros. I am a die hard Iowa fan mostly because of how they competed. I greatly admire and respect them but have to say you’d be an idiot not throw the bank at DT if he is available.

 

[Fan In Black]

Marinelli, Kemmerer, and PK were top 5 recruits in their classes. Ayala was a blue chip recruit as well, and Gabe Arnold. I’m sure there are more. I’d have to check, but Iowa s as many blue chip recruits as any school except PSU.

None of those guys were top 5. Bull, and PK were top 10. Kem was 10-15 depending on service.

Bull was the highest rated recruit Iowa had landed since Evans in 2010. That fact is a trend and a huge part of the problem.

Anyway all both of our posts really shows is that Iowa is better with these types of recruits. they need more of them.

Give me 10 top 20 recruits over 3 years. They can't even do that.

 

[Grip220]

I grew up watching the Brands bros. I am a die hard Iowa fan mostly because of how they competed. I greatly admire and respect them but have to say you’d be an idiot not throw the bank at DT if he is available.

He has not coached a team yet and everyone wants to hand him the IOWA job. Not what I would do, at best move terry to the HWC and bring in Taylor as an assistant head coach first and see where that gets us.
If this is not possible then bring him in as the head coach of the HWC.

The entire Hawkeye team will be wearing Lululemon fanny packs soon. This could be the one and only deal breaker for me, we shall see
Go Hawks without fanny packs!

 

[anon_4lz6x5o7izepf]

He has not coached a team yet and everyone wants to hand him the IOWA job. Not what I would do, at best move terry to the HWC and bring in Taylor as an assistant head coach first and see where that gets us.
If this is not possible then bring him in as the head coach of the HWC.

The entire Hawkeye team will be wearing Lululemon fanny packs soon. This could be the one and only deal breaker for me, we shall see
Go Hawks without fanny packs!

I hear you but Gable didn’t have experience either when he was hired. DT is one of the very few I’d take a chance on.

 

[Grip220]

No. You're missing my point(s). I want the hawks to do awesome. I'm never betting against them. But, your promises about next year are meaningless at this time. The main point though, is that you're trying to silence anyone who thinks it's time for TnT to be replaced and you back your statements with the pronouncement that we're going to place 2nd next year (as if that's the goal). Did you forget that the aim is to place 1st?

If I was trying to silence you I would break your jaw. Or not I have not met you, anyways
I have no idea what will happen with TNT and all the rumors, i know this. If Tom is still the head coach our team will be a much better package then this season.
I will also add, I stated multiple times that changes are definitely needed

 

[Grip220]

I hear you but Gable didn’t have experience either when he was hired. DT is one very very few I’d take a chance on.

You are of my favorite guys on here, but you compared Gable to DT.
Im going on record and saying I would take Dake over DT any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I will always be a Hawk fan, if TnT go to a different team I will be rooting for that team also.
If I see the Hawkeye team wearing Lululemon fanny packs Im gonna puke!
Go Hawks!

 

[anon_4lz6x5o7izepf]

You are of my favorite guys on here, but you compared Gable to DT.
Im going on record and saying I would take Dake over DT any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I will always be a Hawk fan, if TnT go to a different team I will be rooting for that team also.
If I see the Hawkeye team wearing Lululemon fanny packs Im gonna puke!
Go Hawks!

No disrespect to Gable. I meant to say there is precedent for hiring an inexperienced coach with outstanding credentials from outside of the program. I won’t bag on Dake but suffice it to say I prefer Taylor. I’d also be fine with TnT if Taylor doesn’t work out and some changes are made. Some of the other names thrown out around here make me want to laugh though. Big step down from what we already have…

 

[T8KUDWN]

I hear you but Gable didn’t have experience either when he was hired. DT is one of the very few I’d take a chance on.

Gable started his coaching career as an assistant

 

[anon_4lz6x5o7izepf]

Gable started his coaching career as an assistant

Thanks for the correction. Had a senior moment there.

 

[mcpat]

Im going on record and saying I would take Dake over DT any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

In all seriousness and with zero troll in this, can you explain why? Honestly curious and promise not to respond no matter what you say.

 

[Grip220]

In all seriousness and with zero troll in this, can you explain why? Honestly curious and promise not to respond no matter what you say.

Why would you not respond?

 

[mcpat]

Why would you not respond?

Sometimes when I engage more than a funny comment, people think I’m trolling. I’m just curious on your reasons for Dake over DT.

 

[Grip220]

Sometimes when I engage more than a funny comment, people think I’m trolling. I’m just curious on your reasons for Dake over DT.

to tell you the truth I cannot keep track on who said what at what time nor do I care, as far Im concerned at the end of the day we are all wrestling fans and everyone is only as good as their last post.
Now getting back to your question, I like Dake better!
I think he is smarter, I think he actually made DT better.
I like his philosophy on training and movements.
I believe his draw of new recruits may be even better then DT
I like his connection with Ny and northwestern PA
I think he would make a better coach for various reasons, but mostly from hearing them both speak and how they have handle themselves during competitions.
But most of all Dake does not wear lululemon fanny packs and DT does!

 

[Hawkgma]

You are of my favorite guys on here, but you compared Gable to DT.
Im going on record and saying I would take Dake over DT any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I will always be a Hawk fan, if TnT go to a different team I will be rooting for that team also.
If I see the Hawkeye team wearing Lululemon fanny packs Im gonna puke!
Go Hawks!

Now I hate you…… I love my LuLu fannypack.

 

[Hawkgma]

to tell you the truth I cannot keep track on who said what at what time nor do I care, as far Im concerned at the end of the day we are all wrestling fans and everyone is only as good as their last post.
Now getting back to your question, I like Dake better!
I think he is smarter, I think he actually made DT better.
I like his philosophy on training and movements.
I believe his draw of new recruits may be even better then DT
I like his connection with Ny and northwestern PA
I think he would make a better coach for various reasons, but mostly from hearing them both speak and how they have handle themselves during competitions.
But most of all Dake does not wear lululemon fanny packs and DT does!

I like all these points!! I’ll also take Dake as an assistant please….

 

[Grip220]

Now I hate you…… I love my LuLu fannypack.

Dude you should hate me if you rock one those things, my daughter has a few of them she is 12.

 

[el dub]

Dude you should hate me if you rock one those things, my daughter has a few of them she is 12.

Then you prolly hate my Hello Kitty in Space backpack, too, eh?

 

[Grip220]

Then you prolly hate my Hello Kitty in Space backpack, too, eh?

crazy thing is I think that guy was serious, wtf man!

 

[TailgateTom]

He has not coached a team yet and everyone wants to hand him the IOWA job. Not what I would do, at best move terry to the HWC and bring in Taylor as an assistant head coach first and see where that gets us.
If this is not possible then bring him in as the head coach of the HWC.

The entire Hawkeye team will be wearing Lululemon fanny packs soon. This could be the one and only deal breaker for me, we shall see
Go Hawks without fanny packs!

Good thing you’re not in a position to make decisions then. I’d be okay if we wore lipstick and high heels if that meant being competitive on an annual basis, not having yearly senior flameouts and constant injuries, and being able to score points, scramble and finish shots.

 

[Hawkgma]

Dude you should hate me if you rock one those things, my daughter has a few of them she is 12.

i rock the shit out of the LuLu fanny...... My 21 year old daughter thinks its cool as shit