Shooting Reported at Las Vegas Casino Hotel
- Thread starter HotelAlphaWilcoKilo
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You never addressed my premise and instead focused on my exaggerated example to go off on an irrelevant tangent.
I have, and it's not even agreed upon by experts. One hang up is what is considered "mentally ill". I'd say being sociopathic enough to try to kill hundreds of innocent civilians indiscriminately is a pretty good sign someone isn't mentally well though.
Rare that I am forced into defending a GOP talking point, but there's at least a kernel of truth in it.
yeah, but this dude is acting sketchy a little bit, rolling his eyes too much. I understand he's probably in shock and all, but something isn't right with all this crap, the brother, marilou, all this crap. I guess we wait and see
There are many problems. But the fact is if a bad person wants to harm innocent people, there ain't much you can do about it.
No, but you might be able to do something to limit the extent of the harm such a person can inflict.
I really don’t understand the point of arguing at a time like this.
It's not irrelevant. You are obviously suggesting a ban on guns like Australia, but you won't come out and directly say that. Maybe we could discuss your "point" if you'd just come out an say it.
A woman probably would have just stood on the balcony shouting passive-aggressive insults at the concert-goers across the street.
There is a point where this act goes from stupid but mildly amusing to just plain sad a more than a little evil.
seriously who determines it? is there a "big brother department of labelling folks with a mental problem" ?
There was some article about a woman acting crazy at the concert an hour before the shooting....but who knows what true or related at this point....supposedly she was yelling everyone is going to die.
I was reading about that just a little bit ago. If true, that's extremely weird. What are the odds that a crazy person would randomly yell that crap, before the deadliest shooting in US history?
When you have 30,000 people in one place, there are going to be a few nut jobs in the group.
I understand that sentiment, but struggle with the unintended consequences. My concern is - will get rid of guns from people who want to inflict harm? Anytime something is banned, there is a black market to fill the demand. Meth is banned, but there are plenty of people who can get it. Sex with minors is banned, but perverts can get their fix thanks to human trafficking.
Obviously these are not the exact same things, but it seems that if messed up people want to do things against the law, they have ways to get it done. I would prefer trying to ID the messed up people and get them help, treatment, etc with some more thorough background checks and waiting periods.
That is my point of view as of today. Not trying to claim it's right or wrong, just trying to share the pros and cons as I see it. Look forward to continued dialogue.
1. Vehicular Homicide
Olga Hepnarová, a Czech woman, deliberately hit a crowd of people with a truck, killing eight of the twenty that she struck.
Priscilla Joyce Ford, an African American woman, drove down a Reno sidewalk, killing six and injuring 23 more.
2. Guns
Brenda Ann Spencer, a 16-year-old, killed two adults and wounded a police officer and eight children at the Cleveland Elementary School.
Jennifer San Marco killed her neighbor, then drove to the Goleta postal plant where she had worked and killed six more people before killing herself.
Aileen Carol Wuornos, perhaps America's most famous female serial killer, killed at least seven men in two years.
Sylvia Seegrist took a rifle to a shopping mall, where she killed three people and wounded seven.
Amy Bishop killed three people and wounded three more at a meeting of the biology department where she worked.
3. Arson
Nasra Yussef Mohammed al-Enezi set fire to the tent where her ex-husband was being remarried. Fifty-seven people were killed, and ninety were wounded.
Olga Hepnarová, a Czech woman, deliberately hit a crowd of people with a truck, killing eight of the twenty that she struck.
Priscilla Joyce Ford, an African American woman, drove down a Reno sidewalk, killing six and injuring 23 more.
2. Guns
Brenda Ann Spencer, a 16-year-old, killed two adults and wounded a police officer and eight children at the Cleveland Elementary School.
Jennifer San Marco killed her neighbor, then drove to the Goleta postal plant where she had worked and killed six more people before killing herself.
Aileen Carol Wuornos, perhaps America's most famous female serial killer, killed at least seven men in two years.
Sylvia Seegrist took a rifle to a shopping mall, where she killed three people and wounded seven.
Amy Bishop killed three people and wounded three more at a meeting of the biology department where she worked.
3. Arson
Nasra Yussef Mohammed al-Enezi set fire to the tent where her ex-husband was being remarried. Fifty-seven people were killed, and ninety were wounded.
I get that, but I've been to plenty of gatherings of over 30K people and was never told by anyone that we'd all die.
This may be it actually. Vegas is a bit.....different.
Let me get this clear: are you even attempting to say that this isn't a predominantly male thing? Men represent 90+% of every violent crime statistic in America, including mass shootings.
Iowa City Liberty High principal Scott Kibby (former CR Jeff and IC West administrator) was at the concert.
No, I didn't suggest anything. It was a comment about how this only happens in America. Sounds to me that you are suggesting this worked pretty well in Australia, though. Otherwise, why would you have brought it up?
Oh I know which is why I said women are capable of murder/violence, but when it comes to this type of violence it's not even close.
I thought I read somewhere that women tend to poison because it doesn't require the strength advantage a physical fight would. The same thing applies to guns and cars, but outside of the few world wide examples you gave you just don't see it much.
Not so. But it is easy to understand and no one wants their group, the one they associate with, to be capable of acts of violence such as the most recent.
Including me.
A few talking points:
1) Regarding this being a GOP talking point. http://www.npr.org/2017/02/02/51312...ma-rule-restricting-gun-sales-to-mentally-ill
2) I look forward to your presentation of experts who disagree with this: https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/index.html
A short bit: "Fact: The vast majority of people with mental health problems are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. Most people with mental illness are not violent and only 3%-5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness. In fact, people with severe mental illnesses are over 10 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population. You probably know someone with a mental health problem and don't even realize it, because many people with mental health problems are highly active and productive members of our communities."
3) People like me die 20 years sooner. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...aving-severe-mental-illness-means-dying-young
So you see. I'm no more likely to commit this kind of action (the shooting) then you are. I'm ten times more likely to be the victim of violence than you are. And I will likely be dead twenty years sooner than the average "normal" person. I'll leave that for speculation as to why.
But, one cause is the lack of proper care in a society which is quick to pin every bad thing that ever happens on persons with Mental Illness. Consider the repercussions of contributing to the bias against sick people, like me. Folks don't want to live near us, work with us, let their kids be friends with ours, it's like, we're black or gay or something really bad like that...only worse. Which leads me to #4.
4) https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/25/stigma-of-mental-illness/9875351/ I implore you, if what I've communicated isn't enough....research! And why, because your attitude and that of many people around you contributes to killing me.
By the way, one of my illnesses is Severe Agoraphobia. You won't find me among large groups of people, not like that 64 year old with no signs of a Mental Disorder (until he shot people and NOW he's like me, not you?)
A short bit: "Fact: The vast majority of people with mental health problems are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. Most people with mental illness are not violent and only 3%-5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness. In fact, people with severe mental illnesses are over 10 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population. You probably know someone with a mental health problem and don't even realize it, because many people with mental health problems are highly active and productive members of our communities."
While I have little doubt this is all true, we are talking mass shootings a tiny subset of violence. It's not about stigmatizing, but about working with facts despite the discomfort to some.
While I have little doubt this is all true, we are talking mass shootings a tiny subset of violence. It's not about stigmatizing, but about working with facts despite the discomfort to some.
Same kind of thing applies to suicide. Women do not usually shoot themselves, men do. Women use pills and knives.
I pick Australia off the top of my head. But back to the point, I think we have more nuts in this country. And - I don't know why.
And a woman who was described as a "person of interest" after the attack is now not believed to be involved in the shooting, police said in a statement.
"Marilou Danley is no longer being sought out as a person of interest," the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department said. "LVMPD detectives have made contact with her and do not believe she is involved with the shooting on the strip."
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-shooter/index.html
So quit being uncomfortable and let's talk facts.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318286/
I know it is a long read. But it supports my presentation in SEVERAL ways.
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Golf club bag can hold q
Better talk to France then about taking care of vehicle deaths and knives - seems to be a constant there.
If someone wants to cause harm (tim mcveigh) they will and no law, restriction, regulation, etc will stop them.
