Student behavior question for principals or school administrators?

[Tom Paris]

@tarheelbybirth or others…could someone in an administrative position PLEASE explain to me why students are ALLOWED to completely trash a classroom with no intervening? It’s not like the teacher will be reimbursed for having things they purchased destroyed. I stood at the doorway to a “double room” while a new student trashed the other half for a good half hour. I know a shit ton about working with kids but I do not understand why we stand back and allow this behavior.

I guarantee this student will be in my class tomorrow. No consequences.

 

[win1forthe]

Gen Ed student? IEP? Was the student a risk to themself or others? Is staff certified in CPI or transport holds? Were the other students removed while the student was tearing apart the room? Is there a quiet or safety room the student could have been moved to?

 

[WSC72]

Gen Ed student? IEP? Was the student a risk to themself or others? Is staff certified in CPI or transport holds? Were the other students removed while the student was tearing apart the room? Is there a quiet or safety room the student could have been moved to?

You forgot 504.

Another question, what does his/her IEP state? What is the disability (if on IEP).

 

[win1forthe]

You forgot 504.

Another question, what does his/her IEP state? What is the disability (if on IEP).

Possibly, but different guidelines for discipline with 504 vs. IEP

 

[Scruddy]

If you can't answer the question of why you personally behaved the way you did then why would anyone else really be able to weigh in? Did you try having an inappropriate conversation that would piss their parents off with them? I know that's your usual go to - no luck with that here?? You are literally the one allowing this and now you ask why.. the absolute state of government schools lol

 

[Tom Paris]

Gen Ed student? IEP? Was the student a risk to themself or others? Is staff certified in CPI or transport holds? Were the other students removed while the student was tearing apart the room? Is there a quiet or safety room the student could have been moved to?

Not sure because he’s been here a week. It was in sped room. When one is tossing desks I would say yes. Yes. Yes. Why? Not sure.

 

[bunsen82]

At our school though we would have to make sure this student would go to recess. Can’t make the student help clean up the mess he made.

 

[Tom Paris]

So why is this allowed to be a thing? Why are students allowed to destroy taxpayer and staff property?

 

[Scruddy]

So why is this allowed to be a thing? Why are students allowed to destroy taxpayer and staff property?

You allowed it, you tell us

 

[WSC72]

Possibly, but different guidelines for discipline with 504 vs. IEP

Trust me. I’m aware. Just clarifying

 

[bunsen82]

So why is this allowed to be a thing? Why are students allowed to destroy taxpayer and staff property?

I agree, going for a walk or talking it out isn’t solving the underlying issues, which is no structure or discipline or expectations. I would have this kid figured out in a week. Likely a rough couple days of adjustment plenty 1 on 1 talks of expectations. Removing toys tv and other privelges for poor behavior. Potential spanking if beginning to destroy my stuff disrespect or violence.

 

[WSC72]

Not sure because he’s been here a week. It was in sped room. When one is tossing desks I would say yes. Yes. Yes. Why? Not sure.

You would have access to the IEP if you ask the SPED teacher. Might be some answers in there.

Valid and logical answers? Probably not. But it might shed some light on behavior. You could ask to look at his file that was sent with him when he registered as well.

 

[WSC72]

I agree, going for a walk or talking it out isn’t solving the underlying issues, which is no structure or discipline or expectations. I would have this kid figured out in a week.

Figured out isn’t tough.

Changing the behavior is the hard part. But maybe that is what you were saying and I didn’t catch it.

 

[win1forthe]

I’ve spent the last two days dodging punches, kicks, slaps, flying markers and erase boards. One of the teachers has an infection in her arm because of being scratched. I’ve been in our quiet room more than my office. The law is very strict about putting hands on kids, no matter how they are acting. If you transport a kid, you better be certified and ready to fill out a lot of paperwork.

Withiut knowing the exact age, setting and what transpired before that, tough to give a clear cut answer. In short, the student should be suspended, in or out of school, but might not be based on IEP or behavior plan. I always reimburse a teacher for items damaged in a situation like this.

Sorry you had to go through that. Tough to see and deal with.

 

[WSC72]

So why is this allowed to be a thing? Why are students allowed to destroy taxpayer and staff property?

Can I ask what you did to intervene? Or was there an admin present

 

[WSC72]

I’ve spent the last two days dodging punches, kicks, slaps, flying markers and erase boards. One of the teachers has an infection in her arm because of being scratched. I’ve been in our quiet room more than my office. The law is very strict about putting hands on kids, no matter how they are acting. If you transport a kid, you better be certified and ready to fill out a lot of paperwork.

Withiut knowing the exact age, setting and what transpired before that, tough to give a clear cut answer. In short, the student should be suspended, in or out of school, but might not be based on IEP or behavior plan. I always reimburse a teacher for items damaged in a situation like this.

Sorry you had to go through that. Tough to see and deal with.

The BIP would limit suspensions though correct?

 

[BigDogHawkFan]

What options do you have? The student is obviously upset, you approach the student and it becomes physical. Is that stuff worth a physical confrontation

 

[jamesvanderwulf]

 

[WSC72]

I’ve spent the last two days dodging punches, kicks, slaps, flying markers and erase boards. One of the teachers has an infection in her arm because of being scratched. I’ve been in our quiet room more than my office. The law is very strict about putting hands on kids, no matter how they are acting. If you transport a kid, you better be certified and ready to fill out a lot of paperwork.

Withiut knowing the exact age, setting and what transpired before that, tough to give a clear cut answer. In short, the student should be suspended, in or out of school, but might not be based on IEP or behavior plan. I always reimburse a teacher for items damaged in a situation like this.

Sorry you had to go through that. Tough to see and deal with.

I think we should meet and chat in early August at the Iowa Events Center.

 

[Tom Paris]

You would have access to the IEP if you ask the SPED teacher. Might be some answers in there.

Valid and logical answers? Probably not. But it might shed some light on behavior. You could ask to look at his file that was sent with him when he registered as well.

You didn’t answer the questions. I’m not asking for the why of the behavior. I want to know why districts allow this violent behavior. Do you have an answer for that? It is unacceptable. It wasn’t a thing 10-15 years ago. It’s just one more behavior that districts do nothing about. Again…why the hell?

 

[win1forthe]

The BIP would limit suspensions though correct?

Yes, in theory, but that assumes that we have a BIP going for the student. My district likes to pass the buck on who starts a BIP, who collects the data and how it’s being implemented. We have been doing more FBAs in hopes of identifying students that might have a potential to act this way and trying to prevent it.

 

[Tom Paris]

I’ve spent the last two days dodging punches, kicks, slaps, flying markers and erase boards. One of the teachers has an infection in her arm because of being scratched. I’ve been in our quiet room more than my office. The law is very strict about putting hands on kids, no matter how they are acting. If you transport a kid, you better be certified and ready to fill out a lot of paperwork.

Withiut knowing the exact age, setting and what transpired before that, tough to give a clear cut answer. In short, the student should be suspended, in or out of school, but might not be based on IEP or behavior plan. I always reimburse a teacher for items damaged in a situation like this.

Sorry you had to go through that. Tough to see and deal with.

Still waiting for someone to explain why this is allowed. We never get that answer. We get all the shit about what did you do to make them act that way. The principal walked in, watched the behavior, and left. Why do her bosses not back her up?

 

[WSC72]

Win1forthe answered your question.

I was trying to encourage you to find out more about the kid so you could possibly prevent similar situations going forward.

 

[BigDogHawkFan]

I had a second grade sped student threaten his associate with a pencil. When I went to intervene, he started swinging his hands and he got me with the pencil. He was suspended for a week.

 

[Tom Paris]

Can I ask what you did to intervene? Or was there an admin present

Can I ask for the third time why do districts allow this? We have another kid who no demands can be made of. Because if people do he explodes. What the hell?

 

[HawkeyeHitman]

So why is this allowed to be a thing? Why are students allowed to destroy taxpayer and staff property?

Because you guys support Bernie Sanders and The Squads ideology.

 

[Tom Paris]

Win1forthe answered your question.

I was trying to encourage you to find out more about the kid so you could possibly prevent similar situations going forward.

No he didn’t.

 

[WSC72]

Still waiting for someone to explain why this is allowed. We never get that answer. We get all the shit about what did you do to make them act that way. The principal walked in, watched the behavior, and left. Why do her bosses not back her up?

Read the laws on restricting/restraining kids. It’s not as easy as we all would like it to be. It’s frustrating, that I get. Maybe the answer is as simple as people are way more eager to file lawsuits than they once were

Not sure why the principal just left. That’s a question you would have to ask them.

 

[WSC72]

No he didn’t.

Yes. He did. You might not agree with it. But he did.

As far as suspension. If he has a behavior plan there are rules in place that you can only suspend kids so much. Ten days is what your standard answer is, but that’s not totally accurate either. Let me send you a few links.

 

[bunsen82]

Win1forthe answered your question.

I was trying to encourage you to find out more about the kid so you could possibly prevent similar situations going forward.

The system is broken.

 

[WSC72]

@Tom Paris

Link

Link 2

 

[Tom Paris]

Yes. He did. You might not agree with it. But he did.

As far as suspension. If he has a behavior plan there are rules in place that you can only suspend kids so much. Ten days is what your standard answer is, but that’s not totally accurate either. Let me send you a few links.

No he didn’t. Why is this behavior allowed? Why can kids destroy taxpayer and staff property without consequences? You’re telling me nothing I don’t already know. I’m not asking for freaking advice.

4th time.

 

[Tom Paris]

@Tom Paris

Link

Link 2

Questions not answered.

 

[WSC72]

No he didn’t. Why is this behavior allowed? Why can kids destroy taxpayer and staff property without consequences? You’re telling me nothing I don’t already know. I’m not asking for freaking advice.

So are you just asking why they weren’t suspended? Punished ?

 

[mthawkeyes]

So why is this allowed to be a thing? Why are students allowed to destroy taxpayer and staff property?

Because in these situations the student exhibiting the behavior has rights that must be honored, but no one else does. It's mind-boggling.

 

[bunsen82]

I have always been a big proponent for public schools. However I am strongly trying to get a co-op or fund a private school to start. Think you could get teachers easily.

 

[bunsen82]

Because in these situations the student exhibiting the behavior has rights that must be honored, but no one else does. It's mind-boggling.

Should be able to call the police and file charges.

 

[desihawk]

I don’t have knowledge to offer but am interested in whatever’s going on. which grade level, age and race of kid would i think help the gallery as this thread takes shape.

 

[Kelsers]

@tarheelbybirth or others…could someone in an administrative position PLEASE explain to me why students are ALLOWED to completely trash a classroom with no intervening? It’s not like the teacher will be reimbursed for having things they purchased destroyed. I stood at the doorway to a “double room” while a new student trashed the other half for a good half hour. I know a shit ton about working with kids but I do not understand why we stand back and allow this behavior.

I guarantee this student will be in my class tomorrow. No consequences.

You educators better get it figured out. I'd call the cops due to destruction of public property!

 

[Tom Paris]

Because in these situations the student exhibiting the behavior has rights that must be honored, but no one else does. It's mind-boggling.

Teachers, staff and taxpayers don’t have rights apparently. Again, this wasn’t a thing when I started. Kids have no problem tearing up a room. I taught some tough ass kids my first decade and none of them had these kinds of destroy property temper tantrums…because consequences. Why did districts allow this to get this far? It only gets worse from here. It’s only gotten worse. Yeah I’m admittedly effing pissed off.