Student behavior question for principals or school administrators?

[Tom Paris]

You go to that kid’s house and have a talk with the parents and tell them they owe you the money for it. And if she does something like that again, you tell them that you are going to allow your kid to kick the crap out of their kid, then you are going to go to their house and kick the crap out of the Father if he allows it to happen again. I always say someone deserves and someone is gonna get an a$$ whoopin.

This seemed effective…

 

[HawkNester]

He didn’t get kicked out of the previous school. The other kid who we can’t ask to do anything has been booted out of 2 other schools. We have been told he will not be moved out of ours. Pure trash parents and most of their kids are delinquents. He isn’t getting an education.

I’m of the mindset that is past due to start fining the parents. There has to be some element of accountability. Unfortunately technology is raising students nowadays and the hit of dopamine they get constantly is a real problem to overcome when they are expecting to get their way 24/7/365.

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

If I were king (and I should be by the way) I’d make damn sure everything was in place so that disruptive students like described here would have the ability to do their coursework from home and after a few incidents like this it would be the only option available to the student.

Until parents step up and address issues like this there’s no hope for anyone involved. Those kids will fail not just in school but life itself and 99.9% of the time the underlying problem is the parents and their inability to raise their kids.

 

[OutbackBowl2017]

If I were king (and I should be by the way) I’d make damn sure everything was in place so that disruptive students like described here would have the ability to do their coursework from home and after a few incidents like this it would be the only option available to the student.

Until parents step up and address issues like this there’s no hope for anyone involved. Those kids will fail not just in school but life itself and 99.9% of the time the underlying problem is the parents and their inability to raise their kids.

Weekend school for kids like this. And if they don’t show up. Bye bye.

 

[Scruddy]

I'm truly amazed by the circle jerk going on here in a thread that breaks down to "I did something, why did I do it?"

Genius stuff taking place right here..

 

[soybean]

When I was a kid in school the Principal ahd a wooden paddle with several hole drilled in it. First offense was you bent over and he whacked you once. Every subsequent offense was another whack. Most of us got the message the first time.

 

[Hawkfan_08]

I’ve spent the last two days dodging punches, kicks, slaps, flying markers and erase boards. One of the teachers has an infection in her arm because of being scratched. I’ve been in our quiet room more than my office. The law is very strict about putting hands on kids, no matter how they are acting. If you transport a kid, you better be certified and ready to fill out a lot of paperwork.

Withiut knowing the exact age, setting and what transpired before that, tough to give a clear cut answer. In short, the student should be suspended, in or out of school, but might not be based on IEP or behavior plan. I always reimburse a teacher for items damaged in a situation like this.

Sorry you had to go through that. Tough to see and deal with.

I'm sure you know this but this is what kills off good teachers. We need admin to have our backs and stop this stuff from happening. I'm not talking building admin, I'm talking 6 figure admin that do goodness knows what all day from their building away from schools.

 

[kwik44]

Society has decayed at a rapid rate. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[win1forthe]

I just wanted to follow up…was there a consequence for the student? Any other post-incident information to share?

 

[win1forthe]

I'm sure you know this but this is what kills off good teachers. We need admin to have our backs and stop this stuff from happening. I'm not talking building admin, I'm talking 6 figure admin that do goodness knows what all day from their building away from schools.

Yep, i know…there’s a teacher shortage and incidents like this don’t help.

 

[Tom Paris]

I just wanted to follow up…was there a consequence for the student? Any other post-incident information to share?

He was in the office all day yesterday...In school suspension.

 

[ISUBryce]

Can I ask for the third time why do districts allow this? We have another kid who no demands can be made of. Because if people do he explodes. What the hell?

I think you know the answer. The districts are afraid of being sued.

I’m not going to pretend the solution is easy. The state has a mandate to educate kids. But I’m also a firm believer people should not have to live with the threat of violence all the time. The teachers don’t deserve it and the other students don’t deserve it.

JMO but they need to get a handle on this - I’m opposed to vouchers because of how they are used, not in principal.

I also think these kids need structure, but structure can’t be maintained without discipline.

You didn’t ask for advice, but honestly I think teachers need to start pressuring the schools and getting the unions involved threatening lawsuits for unsafe work environments. I think some vague sense of fear about litigation is letting these kids get away with anything. Promise them it’s coming if educators and administrators are completely defenestrated.

 

[ISUBryce]

I know it’s not working. But it’s law and we have to follow it. Like it or not.

Administration gets just as frustrated.

Sure you can make families pay for damages. But if they have no money then what? Sue them? Legal costs might exceed the cost of the damage?

That small percentage of kids can be really frustrating for everyone. Thankfully the vast vast majority of kids are great.

How do you go about changing the law then?

That is an incredibly long process and if I’m being honest your answers seem like “thems the breaks, suck eggs”.

 

[ISUBryce]

You allowed it, you tell us

What would you suggest he have done?

 

[CarolinaHawkeye]

@tarheelbybirth or others…could someone in an administrative position PLEASE explain to me why students are ALLOWED to completely trash a classroom with no intervening? It’s not like the teacher will be reimbursed for having things they purchased destroyed. I stood at the doorway to a “double room” while a new student trashed the other half for a good half hour. I know a shit ton about working with kids but I do not understand why we stand back and allow this behavior.

I guarantee this student will be in my class tomorrow. No consequences.

Sounds like a good reason for teachers to carry.

 

[Rifler]

What would you suggest he have done?

Not being allowed to enforce discipline, I would have collected the other students, marched them out of the classroom, and allowed the little asshole to carry on with his temper tantrum alone.

 

[Tom Paris]

I think you know the answer. The districts are afraid of being sued.

I’m not going to pretend the solution is easy. The state has a mandate to educate kids. But I’m also a firm believer people should not have to live with the threat of violence all the time. The teachers don’t deserve it and the other students don’t deserve it.

JMO but they need to get a handle on this - I’m opposed to vouchers because of how they are used, not in principal.

I also think these kids need structure, but structure can’t be maintained without discipline.

You didn’t ask for advice, but honestly I think teachers need to start pressuring the schools and getting the unions involved threatening lawsuits for unsafe work environments. I think some vague sense of fear about litigation is letting these kids get away with anything. Promise them it’s coming if educators and administrators are completely defenestrated.

The thing that I am starting to question, when there is SO much documentation on student behavior...violent behavior...bring on the lawsuit. The district could pull many witnesses to testify against the family for what that child does. We have a behavior specialist who was fuming yesterday, because the day before, the kid who no demands can be made of, hit her in the face. No consequences. The kid is untouchable because fear of lawsuits from that family. Again, there is no way they can afford a lawyer, when they can't even keep running water in their home, that couldn't be crushed by district lawyers. It makes no sense to me. You want to sue? Bring it. We can prove your child's violent nature towards multiple staff members, kids, and a bus driver. I have at least a decent relationship with him...as good as one could have...but he makes some kind of contact with me every chance he gets...usually a shoulder bump or a little push. Not out of anger but because he enjoys doing it.

For your last paragraph...I'm not sure what the union could do. It has no power after our Republican government blew it up several years ago. It has no power and we can't strike.

 

[Tom Paris]

Not being allowed to enforce discipline, I would have collected the other students, marched them out of the classroom, and allowed the little asshole to carry on with his temper tantrum alone.

Again, this did NOT happen to me. I went to get a little kindergartener in a wheelchair, who was absent. Three paras were standing in the doorway while the sped teacher and behavioral interventionist were standing in the second section of this split room watching the kid tear stuff up. One of my hills is kids trying to break my things that I pay for and that I won't get reimbursed for if destroyed. It hasn't happened yet and I hope it doesn't because I won't allow it. Our science teacher feels the same way. Nobody is trashing that room.

 

[Rifler]

Again, this did NOT happen to me. I went to get a little kindergartener in a wheelchair, who was absent. Three paras were standing in the doorway while the sped teacher and behavioral interventionist were standing in the second section of this split room watching the kid tear stuff up. One of my hills is kids trying to break my things that I pay for and that I won't get reimbursed for if destroyed. It hasn't happened yet and I hope it doesn't because I won't allow it. Our science teacher feels the same way. Nobody is trashing that room.

Understood...

 

[ISUBryce]

The thing that I am starting to question, when there is SO much documentation on student behavior...violent behavior...bring on the lawsuit. The district could pull many witnesses to testify against the family for what that child does. We have a behavior specialist who was fuming yesterday, because the day before, the kid who no demands can be made of, hit her in the face. No consequences. The kid is untouchable because fear of lawsuits from that family. Again, there is no way they can afford a lawyer, when they can't even keep running water in their home, that couldn't be crushed by district lawyers. It makes no sense to me. You want to sue? Bring it. We can prove your child's violent nature towards multiple staff members, kids, and a bus driver. I have at least a decent relationship with him...as good as one could have...but he makes some kind of contact with me every chance he gets...usually a shoulder bump or a little push. Not out of anger but because he enjoys doing it.

For your last paragraph...I'm not sure what the union could do. It has no power after our Republican government blew it up several years ago. It has no power and we can't strike.

I agree with your first paragraph, but that will take balls, and it’s clear most admins don’t have any. So that’s where you have to also start suing in our country unfortunately.

As to the second, I know they said you can’t strike. What happens if you do anyway? Honest question.

 

[Tom Paris]

I agree with your first paragraph, but that will take balls, and it’s clear most admins don’t have any. So that’s where you have to also start suing in our country unfortunately.

As to the second, I know they said you can’t strike. What happens if you do anyway? Honest question.

We lose our teaching licenses for one thing. Not sure if we can be arrested or not. The best we could probably do is everybody call in sick on the same day.

 

[Rifler]

When students like this are encountered, and the normal options for remediation don't work, they should quite simply be expelled,.. You can't allow kids like this to ruin the learning experience for others...

 

[Tom Paris]

When students like this are encountered, and the normal options for remediation don't work, they should quite simply be expelled,.. You can't allow kids like this to ruin the learning experience for others...

I REALLY think we should take advantage of the online learning platform. If you can't handle a gen ed building then you can have access to online learning and get that at home. Try again the next year. The parents created them, the parents can figure out how to make it work at home. Like JD Vance says, maybe just have the grandparents help out a little more.

 

[Rifler]

I REALLY think we should take advantage of the online learning platform. If you can't handle a gen ed building then you can have access to online learning and get that at home. Try again the next year. The parents created them, the parents can figure out how to make it work at home. Like JD Vance says, maybe just have the grandparents help out a little more.

Whatever gets them out of the school,... When it gets to this point I wouldn't be particularly concerned about their future academic success,.. They, and their parents, had their multiple chances to make things work...

 

[ISUBryce]

I REALLY think we should take advantage of the online learning platform. If you can't handle a gen ed building then you can have access to online learning and get that at home. Try again the next year. The parents created them, the parents can figure out how to make it work at home. Like JD Vance says, maybe just have the grandparents help out a little more.

This makes a ton of sense. Honest question as always, how do we make it an option? Obviously lawmakers need to be involved.

 

[Tom Paris]

This makes a ton of sense. Honest question as always, how do we make it an option? Obviously lawmakers need to be involved.

It takes laws being changed. Reynolds was actually starting to do something about student behavior, I thought, but I haven't heard anything since. Republicans are supposedly "law and order" so I figured they could come up with something to legitimately address student behavior. Because of Covid, we all had a very usable online platform that could be used for these kids who are constant behavior issues.

I really don't think people understand what it's like to go to work and have to take abuse. I am lucky that I am in a position where I don't get a lot of disrespect. Actually, a few minutes ago a couple of first graders were wrestling around in the cafeteria. I raised my voice a bit to knock it off. One of them started laughing at me. He continued to smile as I was addressing him and then he said something that was disrespectful that wouldn't make sense if I had to explain it. He finally complied and came with me into the hallway. I knelt down to his level and chewed his ass out.

He cried for about 10 minutes. I went back over to him and told him that we're good. I love him and we're going to move past it. A minute later he was up doing the lunchroom dance. That may sound harsh to some but there are times, when I have to teach these kids for 6 years, that disrespect is going to be addressed immediately and that I'm not that guy to take it. I really wish more people would spend time in schools and really soak in what happens. Lots of great learning. Lots of great kids. But there are a chunk who are just mean and abusive to everybody.

 

[Whiskeydeltadeltatango]

No child left behind!!!