Correct, although I think if you look at last year they all look pretty much the same against stout competition. The rationale for looking beyond those issues was they were young and that the only cure was experience. Nearly a full year later and at this point you have to assume that, given the lack of development of not just these 2 but DeJong and Plumb as well, either the talent isn't there or the coaching isn't there. I suppose most likely it's a combination of both, but I'm not smart enough to know which is true. I only see the same results everyone else is seeing.I thought Colby and Richmond in particular did all right as RS/True Frosh last year all things considered. Both appear to have at best stayed flat on their development if not regressed. Richmond in particular it’s ridiculous how often he gets beat by simple moves.