Texas woman asks judge to let her terminate pregnancy after lethal fetal diagnosis

[RileyHawk]

You can argue with the scientist consensus that life begins at conception, not birth.

"Life" in this context begins before conception. Sperm is alive.

Your avoidance of the "complex" questions (they aren't complex at all, just inconvenient) says a lot.

 

[BrianNole777]

"Life" in this context begins before conception. Sperm is alive.

Your avoidance of the "complex" questions (they aren't complex at all, just inconvenient) says a lot.

I've answered them before in other threads.

There's no reason to go back and forth for 8 pages when our values will never align.

It's a Friday.

Have a good weekend.

 

[runkpanole]

View embedded media

I blame the Texas Senate and Donald Trump for this.

 

[auntie_fah]

Yet, God destroys a very large percent of those, that naturally miscarry (>30%)
Ergo, doesn't seem that God shares your view here.

Our gawd is an awesome, murderous gawd

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

That's still convenience. They could give the baby up for adoption.

I don't vote for people that cut welfare, but it's still the responsibility of people to take care of their kids.

I'm so tired of the old adoption argument being the salve to heal this wound. 2 million couples all waiting for babies to adopt, yet over 100,000 kids languish in our foster/adoption systems. WTF are they waiting for? Why are these couples making such immoral choices? Their choices that are affecting actual living, breathing human beings in the here and now. Those kids that never get adopted are in the pipeline for a continued dismal existence after they age out of the system. So these selfish couples choosing not to adopt kids from the foster system get a free morality pass, but the women who find themselves with an unintended pregnancy are the evil villains?

Fvck that.

Foster kids that age out of the system outcomes:

- 20% of them are homeless by the age of 18
- 70% of former female foster kids end up pregnant by the age of 21
- Only 3% of them end up obtaining a college degree

Former foster kids are far more likely to end up in the prison pipeline as well.

Perhaps we should start considering that many of these women that recognize they aren't fit for parenthood and that choose an early elective abortion are actually acting with uncommon grace and wisdom by preventing a life of misery for their potential offspring.

Edit: Ken Paxton should kill himself BTW.

 

[BrianNole777]

If a fertilized egg is so sacrosanct, then why do such a very large number of them miscarry?
Or implant ectopically?
Or end up with undersized placentas (which lead to stillbirth)?

Pretty shitty "divine" system there.

And that doesn't mean we allow abortions at 28 weeks (viable); it simply means ones that are <20 weeks may not be as "sacred" as you want to think.

It's a mystery to me.

I hope I can find these answers after my death.

 

[RileyHawk]

I've answered them before in other threads.

There's no reason to go back and forth for 8 pages when our values will never align.

It's a Friday.

Have a good weekend.

LOL. You haven't touched those questions. You back out just like you're doing now.

You're only fooling yourself.

 

[BrianNole777]

I'm so tired of the old adoption argument being the salve to heal this wound. 2 million couples all waiting for babies to adopt, yet over 100,000 kids languish in our foster/adoption systems. WTF are they waiting for? Why are these couples making such immoral choices? Their choices that are affecting actual living, breathing human beings in the here and now. Those kids that never get adopted are in the pipeline for a continued dismal existence after they age out of the system. So these selfish couples choosing not to adopt kids from the foster system get a free morality pass, but the women who find themselves with an unintended pregnancy are the evil villains?

Fvck that.

Foster kids that age out of the system outcomes:

- 20% of them are homeless by the age of 18
- 70% of former female foster kids end up pregnant by the age of 21
- Only 3% of them end up obtaining a college degree

Former foster kids are far more likely to end up in the prison pipeline as well.

Perhaps we should start considering that many of these women that recognize they aren't fit for parenthood and that choose an early elective abortion are actually acting with uncommon grace and wisdom by preventing a life of misery for their potential offspring.

Very sad situation. I think the blame goes to the birth parents for not taking care of their kids.

 

[BrianNole777]

LOL. You haven't touched those questions. You back out just like you're doing now.

You're only fooling yourself.

I'm never going to agree with you and @Joes Place about moral issues so further engagement is pointless, IMO.

 

[artradley]

This is reprehensible.

The Texas attorney general, Ken Paxton, threatened legal action if the abortion takes place. In a letter addressed to the hospitals involved with Cox’s care, Paxton said that Cox’s doctor did not meet “all of the elements necessary to fall within an exception to Texas’ abortion laws” and that the judge was “not medically qualified to make this determination.”

Paxton said the judge’s order would not excuse the hospital or doctor from civil or criminal liability “including first degree felony prosecutions.” He added that the temporary restraining order “will expire long before the statute of limitations for violating Texas’ abortion laws expires.”

Paxton is pure evil.

 

[RileyHawk]

Very sad situation. I think the blame goes to the birth parents for not taking care of their kids.

Wait - you are against abortion and then want to blame parents who go through with a birth for giving their child up for adoption?

Perfect example demonstrating that the anti-abortion crowd doesn't care a bit about the children.

 

[Huey Grey]

Life begins at conception according to the science. The other issues are endlessly complex.

Life Begins at Fertilization with the Embryo's Conception

www.princeton.edu

Jesus, you are dumb.

 

[Joes Place]

It's a mystery to me.

I hope I can find these answers after my death.

You know the answers

You just won't accept them.

 

[RileyHawk]

I'm never going to agree with you and @Joes Place about moral issues so further engagement is pointless, IMO.

No one is asking you to agree. You were asked your opinion on very specific questions. And they weren't asked by Joe or me.

You're just scrambling again.

 

[BrianNole777]

No one is asking you to agree. You were asked your opinion on very specific questions. And they weren't asked by Joe or me.

You're just scrambling again.

I don't want to engage with the biggest know it all on this board.

Joe'sPlace.

 

[BrianNole777]

Jesus, you are dumb.

Don't blame me, blame the biologists.

 

[RileyHawk]

I don't want to engaged with the biggest know it all on this board.

Joe'sPlace.

Joe didn't ask these questions.

Does life occur at conception? If so, what do you feel about the other issues that are related? Death of a baby while she is pregnant? Taxes? Etc. Should the state treat a woman who is pregnant as someone who actually has a baby?

I believe that a fetus is not a baby until birth, but the state should have a say on abortion restrictions at some point. Viability as an option.

You're simply avoiding them.

 

[Huey Grey]

I don't want to engage with the biggest know it all on this board.

Joe'sPlace.

Seems like you don't want to engage with anyone on actual facts.

 

[Huey Grey]

Don't blame me, blame the biologists.

Nah, I blame you. You've already stated that you morally disagree. So nothing can change your mind.

 

[RileyHawk]

Don't blame me, blame the biologists.

Is all "life" the same? Does all "life" equate to a human?

 

[BrianNole777]

Seems like you don't want to engage with anyone on actual facts.

I gave the scientific consensus. You reject it.

 

[BrianNole777]

Nah, I blame you. You've already stated that you morally disagree. So nothing can change your mind.

That's fine. I'll never agree with your value system, Huey.

 

[BrianNole777]

Is all "life" the same? Does all "life" equate to a human?

My view would be no.

 

[RileyHawk]

I gave the scientific consensus. You reject it.

You gave consensus that conception creates "life" but not that it creates a viable human being. Do you think a tadpole and a frog are the same?

 

[Huey Grey]

I gave the scientific consensus. You reject it.

No, you most definitely didn't.

 

[BrianNole777]

You gave consensus that conception creates "life" but not that it creates a viable human being. Do you think a tadpole and a frog are the same?

No. Please read the link.

The scientists were clear and I'm not a scientist.

 

[Huey Grey]

That's fine. I'll never agree with your value system, Huey.

As long as you admit that you're basing abortion on feelings and not actual biology.

 

[RileyHawk]

My view would be no.

Finally got one right.

So why won't you answer questions from theiacowtipper?

 

[auntie_fah]

@BrianNole777

That's still convenience. They could give the baby up for adoption.

Also @BrianNole777 while responding to a post about kids currebtly waiting to be adopted

Very sad situation. I think the blame goes to the birth parents for not taking care of their kids.

 

[BrianNole777]

As long as you admit that you're basing abortion on feelings and not actual biology.

Here's the science:

"Overall, 95% of all biologists affirmed the biological view that a human's life begins at fertilization (5212 out of 5502)."

Biologists' Consensus on 'When Life Begins'

Many Americans disagree on ‘When does a human’s life begin?’ because the question is subject to interpretive ambiguity arising from Hume’s is-ought problem. The

papers.ssrn.com

 

[RileyHawk]

No. Please read the link.

The scientists were clear and I'm not a scientist.

They were clear just as I summarized. Conception creates life. Nothing about it being a viable human. That's just been you falsely projecting their findings.

And you acknowledged all life is not equivalent.

 

[BrianNole777]

Finally got one right.

So why won't you answer questions from theiacowtipper?

His other questions were vague and I don't know all the answers.

 

[auntie_fah]

I want one of these states that are forcing births to force life insurance companies to offer plans for fetii since, according to some, life begins at conception.

Allow the mother to get any tax benefits of a born child, since life begins at conception.

Force fathers who are not in the picture to pay child support to the mother since life begins at conception

 

[BrianNole777]

They were clear just as I summarized. Conception creates life. Nothing about it being a viable human. That's just been you falsely projecting their findings.

And you acknowledged all life is not equivalent.

No one claimed conception creates a viable human.

Engaging with you is pointless because you aren't consistent.

 

[BrianNole777]

I want one of these states that are forcing births to force life insurance companies to offer plans for fetii since, according to some, life begins at conception.

Allow the mother to get any tax benefits of a born child, since life begins at conception.

Force fathers who are not in the picture to pay child support to the mother since life begins at conception

Aren't Father's forced to pay child support?

Maybe they should be forced to pay "pregnancy support?"

That seems fair, IMO.

 

[RileyHawk]

Here's the science:

"Overall, 95% of all biologists affirmed the biological view that a human's life begins at fertilization (5212 out of 5502)."

Biologists' Consensus on 'When Life Begins'

Many Americans disagree on ‘When does a human’s life begin?’ because the question is subject to interpretive ambiguity arising from Hume’s is-ought problem. The

papers.ssrn.com

And a frog's life begins with fertilized eggs. That doesn't make a tadpole a frog. And the scientists didn't declare anything otherwise. This is yet another example of you misrepresenting information.

 

[BrianNole777]

And a frog's life begins with fertilized eggs. That doesn't make a tadpole a frog. And the scientists didn't declare anything otherwise. This is yet another example of you misrepresenting information.

I never claimed any of that.

This is why engaging with you is a waste of time.

 

[auntie_fah]

Aren't Father's forced to pay child support?

Maybe they should be forced to pay "pregnancy support?"

That seems fair, IMO.

If the state says that life begins at conception, the surely should pay child support while child is in the womb

 

[BrianNole777]

If the state says that life begins at conception, the surely should pay child support while child is in the womb

Amen brother.

 

[RileyHawk]

His other questions were vague and I don't know all the answers.

They aren't vague at all. And no one is asking you for "the" answers, only your answers.

Look, we know why you don't want to answer such questions. It's painfully obvious and you're not fooling anyone.