Just like Belgium or France would have done things to throw Clark off her game were she an Olympian.
She did not demonstrate the ability to work around that aggressive defense this weekend, and she will need to up her game against team that do this.
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She did not demonstrate the ability to work around that aggressive defense this weekend, and she will need to up her game against team that do this.
That was their second matchup. Indiana won the first game shortly before the Olympic break when Napheesa Collier was out with an injury.
Actually Clark and Hull combined to shoot 5-for-11 from 3. The rest of the team combined to shoot 2-for-18. I’m not sure why Dantas kept throwing up three-pointers. She was 0-for-5.
Do you have stats to back this up?
He’s got nothing. Hell, he keeps prattling on about assist-to-turnover ratio even though Clark’s ratio was better than both Taurasi and Copper at the time the selections were made.
Might as well throw in the
'could get 4 if fouled on a 3 pointer'
and
'could get more if fouled, team objects, gets hit with a technical foul'
You don't have stats to back up your
"A TO is giving the other team 2 points."
or even your
"Most of them result in fast break points."
Post some stats if you will
C'mon, no way. I think over 1:1 is better than the 0:0 for the two who hadn't played or tried out. But hey, in the past they were really good.........
Joe is about to the 'well this one time at band camp I made a post ...........' stage.
I think when he tied in the maga church going crowd into his anti Clark position he was close.
Keep a look out for the ‘turnover is giving the other team two points’ stats to be posted.
The funny thing is JP is as big a fan of CC as anyone on this board. He’s just arguing for the sake of arguing.
You are correct. For some reason the page I was looking at included all of last year's results. Guess I should have looked more closely at the dates.
The "cut your own arm off to prove a point" persona.
I really don't understand why CC has messed with your head so much or what she did to you to make you dislike her so much. That was one game, dude. She's torn the league up since the middle of June. You can say what you want, but it isn't because Kelsey Mitchell suddenly got a crap ton better that the Fever have been a top 5 team in the league over the last 10 games.
The Fever will likely lose in the first round because they will still get stuck playing either the 1 or 2 seed, but they would be a very bad draw for just about anyone else in the playoffs right now and it is because of how the rest of the team has been able to adapt to Clark's play and Clark finding better ways of getting the ball to her teammates. Minnesota threw something new at them and now they need to adjust to that. We'll see if they are able to come up with something.
Or, as I like to call it, The Tripped Out Truck Incongruity.
Which would be fine if he was any good at it. He stepped out of his comfort zone and it hasn’t gone well for him.
You just might wanna check Magic Johnson's Game Efficiency Scores before making that comparison
(CC was not remotely close early on, and still lags at this point)
Magic Johnson 1979-80 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
Get Magic Johnson's 1979-80 game by game stats along with wins and losses stats on Basketball-Reference.comwww.basketball-reference.com
I made no comparison. You said 'Now, do turnovers'. So, I listed the turnovers by rookie season so I didn't have to go look game by game.
Seriously, I am taking no sides while enjoying this thread.
Now, I do know that most of the time, the leaders in turnovers in most leagues are the players that have the ball the most. And, it has been argued that turnovers (much like interceptions in football) could be listed as a team statistic instead of a single player statistic because the statistician doesn't always know who to assign a turnover too. Much like an INT could be the receiver's fault if they run the wrong route or drop a pass that is then picked off on a deflection. Or, the lineman who misses a block and causes the QB to throw the ball earlier than intended and the defender sees the play before the receiver.
Here's another fun stat!
You absolutely made a comparison: Magic Johnson.
OK, let's compare their game efficiency scores, rookie seasons.
I plotted them, using a 6-game window for averaging (thus, the plot starts at Game #6 for both).
First 15+ games: not even close.
Magic was playing at nearly double the game efficiency. The first 13 games were Clark's "tryout" for the Olympic squad.
Her numbers are pretty average for a quality guard back then.
NOW, she is putting up Magic-like numbers over the past 6-10 games (which is what I'd posted for you and others several times now).
Her play at this point in the season is very much like an All-Star and MVP-like player.
That was not the case early in the season. This is basically the same point Dawn Staley made in her interview.
At the June 10/12th cutoff, CC was dropping to 10 or below on the GameScore efficiency metric.
Game #26 is the Olympic break cutoff, where Staley's comments relate to; her play was easily 50% or more improved by that point - GameScores at the break was 18.3, which is as good as or better than some of the Olympians. Not remotely the same as the June 10 cutoff.
Also, note that in the games past #77, those were NBA playoffs games for Magic. He put up some of his most consistent games and numbers leading the Lakers to the title that year.
Caitlin Clark 2024 WNBA Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
Caitlin Clark 2024 WNBA Game Log
www.basketball-reference.com
Magic Johnson 1979-80 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
Get Magic Johnson's 1979-80 game by game stats along with wins and losses stats on Basketball-Reference.com
www.basketball-reference.com
No; I'm arguing that she was not good enough for the Olympics.
But she has been improving, quickly.
I don't dislike her
I think she's turning into an all-star player, and although she won't win league MVP this year, she is absolutely capable of that.
She may not even win Rookie of the Year after Reese just put up a 22-rebound performance. That's Rodman-like numbers.
Five-Thirty-Eight article lists them as even more valuable than 2pts
The Hidden Value of the NBA Steal
Scoring in professional basketball is one of the most beautiful things in sports. With only moments to set up his shot, a player tosses a ball into a soaring ar…
In any other season Reese would have a strong case for ROY. But not this year. Clark isn’t just the best rookie this year. She might be the best rookie ever in the history of the league.
Four of her 22 rebounds yesterday came on this 10-second sequence where she kept clanking bricks off the backboard and grabbing the miss instead of passing out of the triple team to any number of wide open teammates.
On any given night 90% of her shots are inside the restricted arc and she still misses 60%. And yesterday was no exception. She was 4-for-16 even though 15 of her shots were inside the restricted arc.
She took 15 shots from less than 4 feet away and missed 11 of them. And the one shot attempt she made outside the arc was this beauty:
The only way Reese wins ROY is if people are voting based on that stat line and don't actually look at anything else or watch the games. Clark will be in serious discussions for MVP. She's a top 5 player now. I don't even debate with people who claim that there is still a race for ROY because at this point they have as much ground to stand on as flat earthers do.
She was triple-teamed in that first video, and still outrebounded the other players.
I think the Sky's poorer record will cost her votes, particularly if they don't make the playoffs. Leading your team into the playoffs is worth some votes.
The Sky have actively harmed their ability to win games to pump Reese's stats. Reese is good, but if I were one of the other players on the team I'd be wondering wtf the management is doing. As marketable as they think she is, it won't happen if they can't win games.
I think since Reese can only do ONE thing well, Harris will easily be voted ROY.
I agree with that. Indiana is basically the same team as last year except for CC and KLS, and KLS hasn’t done a whole lot. But the team is on track to make the playoffs for the first time in 8 years and they have already won more games than last year with a month left in the season.
I think Atlanta will overtake Chicago for the 8th playoff spot. The Dream have been playing really well since the break and the Fever are going to have their hands full against them tonight.
Chicago seems to have a lot of turmoil in their locker room and it’s kind of difficult to gauge Reese’s impact on the team’s overall success because there has been so much turnover from last year. They brought in a new coach, traded Kahleah Copper to Phoenix, drafted Cardoso and Reese, signed Chennedy Carter, who had basically been exiled from the league for a year, and now they have traded Marina Mabrey. And it sounds like Dana Evans wants out as well.
You absolutely made a comparison: Magic Johnson.
OK, let's compare their game efficiency scores, rookie seasons.
I plotted them, using a 6-game window for averaging (thus, the plot starts at Game #6 for both).
First 15+ games: not even close.
Magic was playing at nearly double the game efficiency. The first 13 games were Clark's "tryout" for the Olympic squad.
Her numbers are pretty average for a quality guard back then.
NOW, she is putting up Magic-like numbers over the past 6-10 games (which is what I'd posted for you and others several times now).
Her play at this point in the season is very much like an All-Star and MVP-like player.
That was not the case early in the season. This is basically the same point Dawn Staley made in her interview.
At the June 10/12th cutoff, CC was dropping to 10 or below on the GameScore efficiency metric.
Game #26 is the Olympic break cutoff, where Staley's comments relate to; her play was easily 50% or more improved by that point - GameScores at the break was 18.3, which is as good as or better than some of the Olympians. Not remotely the same as the June 10 cutoff.
Also, note that in the games past #77, those were NBA playoffs games for Magic. He put up some of his most consistent games and numbers leading the Lakers to the title that year.
Caitlin Clark 2024 WNBA Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
Caitlin Clark 2024 WNBA Game LogMagic Johnson 1979-80 Game Log | Basketball-Reference.com
Get Magic Johnson's 1979-80 game by game stats along with wins and losses stats on Basketball-Reference.com
Not really a comparison - you may have read it as a comparison. I listed a tweet that listed the accomplishment of Clark along side of Magic, Isaiah, and Oscar. It's just a data point to show how her numbers are compiling during her rookie season. No one is saying she is Magic Johnson - although she is better than Reggie Theus and Michael Ray Richardson! Can we agree on that?
Did you know that Magic Johnson didn't lead the 79-80 Lakers in assists (total or average per game)? That would be ... Norm Nixon. Yet, Magic still managed to lead that Lakers team in turnovers (total and average per game)! Magic also didn't lead the Lakers in PER ... that would have been ... Kareem!
And, yes, Magic had a better start to his career than CC numbers wise. Might have something to do with playing with Kareem, Nixon, and Jamaal Wilkes. And yes, Magic had a large part of that team winning the title - Finals MVP, but not ROY - that was Larry Bird.
And, you may be surprised about this - I have never once mentioned that Clark should (or should not) have been on the Olympic Team this year. The first player who should have been considered as a replacement for anyone on the roster should have been Arike Ogunbowale.
So NBA and a decade old? Ricky Rubio for MVP. Someone owes me a keyboard.Five-Thirty-Eight article lists them as even more valuable than 2pts
The Hidden Value of the NBA Steal
Scoring in professional basketball is one of the most beautiful things in sports. With only moments to set up his shot, a player tosses a ball into a soaring ar…fivethirtyeight.com
Huge win for the Fever tonight over the Dream to bolster their playoff position. They’re now 14-16 with 10 games remaining. The Dream are 10-19 with 11 games remaining. The Fever are 3-0 against the Dream and have clinched the season series and potential tie-breaker. So any combination of 7 Fever wins or Dream losses puts Indiana in the playoffs.
Clark went 19/7/7 and also had 2 steals, a block, and just 2 turnovers. She had a bit of a scare when she rolled her ankle 7 minutes into the game and had to sit out the rest of the first quarter.
Clark went 19/7/7 and also had 2 steals, a block, and just 2 turnovers. She had a bit of a scare when she rolled her ankle 7 minutes into the game and had to sit out the rest of the first quarter.
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If we follow Joes experts theory those two steals were worth 18.2 points!!!!!!!
A 9.1 point steal…… wait, that was 10 years ago and the NBA lol
Hindsight is 20/20 but would have loved to see her keep putting up more 3s. On the flip side, I would have loved to see 2x the assists if people could have made layups and open shots.
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To be honest, I’d be perfectly happy seeing CC only take about 15 shots a game unless she gets on a hot streak. 18-20 points and 10 assists on a regular basis would be fantastic. I love watching her be the facilitator. Mitchell is perfectly capable of going for 20-25 points a night and Hull can hit threes as well. The more diverse the attack, the more dangerous they’re going to be in the playoffs.
I find it interesting how tightly Caitlin is guarded compared to Mitchell. I don't know if it is because defenders don't have the quickness to stay glued to Mitchell, or if the other teams can only dedicate one guard to that kind of defense so that they have energy to play effectively at the other end of the floor.
Well...it's not like Mitchell will kill you with the pass. That's for sure.
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