Nothing eventful happened during all this so not a big deal,... Really bad form for the Biden administration though..
The Lloyd Austin fallout is growing: ‘Someone’s head has to roll’
- Thread starter binsfeldcyhawk2
- Start date
This I'd just another catastrophe under joe biden. There is no competent leadership in this administration.
Its not a surprise old Crazy Don would weigh in, but nobody cares.
Lol at the leap in logic via the Sec Def's several day - in the dark - hospital stay and Tuberville's out in the open, impacting hundreds over a span of months. For the amusement of the board, please make the case.
Simply stated, in either case, the military (shockingly!) seems to have some sort of functional continuity of operations plan in place, and strategy, tactics, and ops are not in fact that dependent on the participation of the highest level staff (who as a practical matter have to spend most of their time on political admin anyway).
Now if I may, i'D ask that you remind me of what significant strategic, tactical, or operational tragedy we've suffered in either case...
Thanks, considerably less funny than I anticipated, although I suspect you're used to underwhelming in that regard. I do appreciate that your logic is simply since you don't perceive a bad outcome then there's no problem at all. "Ooops, we let our nukes get stolen, but since we got them back, no big deal, carry on".
I some how read your first comment to mean that you thought the Sec Def matter and the Senate matter were some how comparable in facts, nature and circumstances, so similar that a conclusion in one would apply to other. Turns out you just meant that they were both matters regarding the military where to your knowledge nothing of significant strategic, tactical, or organizational tragedy occurred. Of course, who cares if it did occur? We don't need those hundreds of leadership positions since the military seems to have some sort of functional continuity of operations!
To be clear, it's not that it's strictly outcome determinative, it's that in either case it's highly unlikely to be outcome determinative because beaurocracies - be they government, business, educational or otherwise - keep on keepin on regardless of who's at the helm, sometimes because of redundancy and sometimes in spite of it. Indeed, you could probably even say that about presidents, in both good ways and bad.
Obviously the two situations are very different factual scenarios but their commonality is that both entail political bullshit (by Tuberville in one case, and by a right media trying to gin up a lame election year controversy).
A final note for your comedic interest - the mystery of the Secretary's rehospitalization has an all too familiar ring from my law school torts class Federal Torts Claims Act unit, in which it seemed as though one of the prerequisites to being an army surgeon was to leave sponges in the patient.
Yeah I guess that's kind of my point. This is nothing, but really only a big deal because Rs see a political opportunity. Not saying Ds would be any different, I just think objectively it's not a big deal.
We have different fundamental understandings and takeaways from each matter.
Sec Def: The main story is that the Sec Def was hospitalized for several days, apparently without alerting those he should have, obviously that's not how it's supposed to work. We're still here, the country survived, it wasn't the end of the world. However, that doesn't mean it was the perfect conduct. It's somewhere in the middle. It's not daily televised hearings, Special Counsel and impeachment, but it's also not pretend that it's nothing. The matter should still be addressed, accountability assessed.
To me, the main takeaway is not right wing media trying to gin up a lame election year controversy and that it's all just kvetching or political bullshit.
Senator: The main story is that Tuberville played an unprecedented game of chicken that hurt the military and he lost. Tuberville delayed and held up hundreds of military personnel decisions, appointments/promotions, it wasn't just a few of the very highest level staff. It caused harm, it was supposed to just be the top level guys - how much harm could that be? - but it wasn't, it ended up being for more expansive impacting hundreds.
We're still here, the country survived, it wasn't the end of the world. Biden could have caved and changed the policy that Tuberville was protesting about. Chuck could have used Senate time to confirm the hundreds of personnel decisions individually to bypass Tuberville's block. If it was such a huge deal, it could have been dealt with. But it shouldn't have happened at all. Needless harm.
To me, the main takeaway is not BAU, dismissive, same old same old, usual political bullshit. And kvetching.
I kind of agree but I think when you take a job with level of importance there has to be a higher level of transparency.
Not the end of the world but it's kind of a big deal.
The SecDef out of commission and the administration doesn't know AND the #2 at defense doesn't know they're actually in charge for 2 days?
Seems troubling at the very least...
Come on.
An administration member is responsible for 10 million illegal aliens entering the country, including many known terrorist watch-list members, and nothing has happened.
No one's head will roll.
An administration member is responsible for 10 million illegal aliens entering the country, including many known terrorist watch-list members, and nothing has happened.
No one's head will roll.
Not a big deal huh, you don’t think it represents a reflection of the culture of the administration. We as taxpayers pay his salary, and he wasn’t competent enough to have a plan in place leading up to this medical procedure…or then competent enough to communicate several days after his procedure when he became aware he was going into the hospital. But nothing happened during this time so nothing to see here…that’s a weak expectation to have for our government. Kind of like when the secretary of transportation went on paternity leave for several weeks (or was it months) and nobody even knew. What an amazing administration this clown has put together…let’s go Brandon.
Someone had sex when, where, who they weren't supposed too. Just guessing.
Obviously, Austin's absence was not handled well. However, I do not see it as a firing offense unless there are other issues we are not aware of. As to your comment about Biden's administration, you have to be kidding, especially considering the chaos and incompetence we saw during Trump's administration.
Explainer: Did Pentagon chief Austin's secret hospitalization break the rules?
an 9 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin may have violated the law by failing to report his recent hospitalization to his boss, but despite some calls for his resignation likely only faces a reprimand from U.S. President Joe Biden, according to two legal experts.
WHAT DID AUSTIN DO?
Austin, 70, was admitted on New Year's Day to an Intensive Care Unit at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center for what the Pentagon has said were "complications following a recent elective medical procedure," a fact the Defense Department kept under wraps for five days.Austin sits just below Biden atop the chain of command of the U.S. military but his staff did not inform the White House of his condition for three days, and even his own top deputy was kept in the dark.
WHAT IS THE PROTOCOL?
His handling of the situation appeared to be a stark breach of protocol for high-ranking cabinet officials, who typically inform the public of planned medical absences ahead of time and identify who will be filling in for them.Austin's duties require him to be available at a moment's notice to respond to any national security crisis. He said on Saturday that he "could have done a better job" and took "full responsibility" for the secrecy over his hospitalization.
White House officials have said Biden still has "complete confidence" in Austin, who remains in the hospital but has returned to his regular duties.
WHAT RULES MIGHT HE HAVE BROKEN?
Legal experts said Austin may have violated a U.S. law on "reporting of vacancies" that requires executive agencies to report top-level absences and the names of anyone serving in an acting capacity to both houses of Congress. The law is largely procedural and does not spell out any penalties for lapses.Legal experts said that Austin appears to have clearly violated the rule but will likely face only a reprimand and a warning from Biden. Any top deputies or staff responsible could face similar consequences.
Austin may have also violated internal U.S. Department of Defense protocols, and officials say they are conducting a full review of the incident to determine how future lapses could be prevented.
WAS AUSTIN EVER UNCONSCIOUS?
The Pentagon still hasn't confirmed whether Austin ever lost consciousness. If he had, perhaps because he was under anesthesia, between the time he arrived at the hospital on Jan. 1 and when he turned over his duties on Jan. 2, it could expose him to serious questions about dereliction of duty.The Pentagon has disclosed that Austin arrived at Walter Reed while conscious, after taking an ambulance from his residence to the hospital, where he was admitted to its ICU. The Pentagon has also disclosed he was in severe pain, but will not say whether he took pain medication that could have altered his judgment.
WHEN DID HE TALK TO BIDEN?
Austin spoke to Biden, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan and Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the morning of Jan. 1 before he went to the hospital, the White House said. The "secure conference call" was about the Middle East. Biden was in St. Croix on vacation at the time.There was then no contact with the White House or National Security Council until Jan. 4, the White House said. Biden and Austin next spoke on Jan. 6, the White House said.
White House officials said Biden continued to be briefed on national security issues by other officials during Austin's hospitalization, and the president received his daily national security briefing prepared by the intelligence community. The daily briefing includes input from the Defense Department but is not produced by them.
WHAT DOES CONGRESS SAY?
Congressional leaders are calling for an inquiry.Lawmakers from both parties said they were deeply concerned that the president did not know his top civilian commander was hospitalized for three days at a time when wars are being fought in Gaza and Ukraine.
U.S. Senator Roger Wicker, the highest-ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said on Saturday that the situation was "unacceptable" and demanded a "full accounting of the facts immediately."
Former President Donald Trump, who is Biden's likely Republican challenger in the 2024 election, said on Sunday night that Austin should be fired for his "improper professional conduct and dereliction of duty."
Democratic Senator Jack Reed, the chair of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said: "This lack of disclosure must never happen again."
WILL THERE BE A PENTAGON REVIEW?
Asked if the general counsel's office at the Defense Department believed Austin violated laws, chief Pentagon spokesperson Air Force Major General Patrick Ryder told reporters: "We are considering the impact of any statutory reporting requirements and will provide updates as appropriate."He later added that the reporting requirements being examined would not just involve Congress. "It's to Congress, the White House or anyone else," he said.
I was thinking penis enlargement, but your explanation is a little more reasonable.
Either way, this is dereliction of duty and should be dealt with accordingly.
It's a really weird and strange situation.
After listening Leon Panetta talk about it....it's pretty flabbergasting this happened and a dereliction of duty on Austin's part.
Especially for a career officer like him. More than anyone else in the cabinet almost he should know and respect the need to maintain the chain of command.
I still have so many questions behind all this and with all the ass-covering going on who knows if we will learn anything any time soon.
I think it'd behoove the administration to fast track the inquiry into this and just come clean with the findings. If Austin has to go he has to go. Slow walking it in the hopes it goes away would be a mistake.
I mentioned before, I could understand keeping the initial procedure private, assuming it was a relatively minor thing as was reported. Can’t figure out why it wouldn’t have been reported once he got hospitalized.
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And yet we have god knows how many examples from politicians on all levels of slow walking stuff and hoping it goes away.
Especially if Biden is running against Trump; that would be a singularly stupid thing to do, as we know Trump will create his own narrative anyways so it’s better to get their version out first instead of having to play defense for 10 months.
Is that what’s been reported? I hadn’t heard. He absolutely should have told Biden, or SOMEONE at the DoD or WH then.
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He absolutely should have and it appears changes are being made to ensure it doesn't happen again.
PC is what got my Daddy. My brother got his caught very early and is in good health.
Austen May have mistakenly thought he had a right to keep it private because of HIPPA but apparently social media disagrees. 🤨
I mean, I agree for the initial procedure at least. My objection comes when he got hospitalized.
This isn't even a point of discussion if he did what he was supposed to do.
Still could have notified his Boss - the President. And today we’d be reading press releases telling us about his recovery process and a quote from the WH wishing him a speedy recovery and noting an excellent prognosis.
Which I still wish for the man.
They still shouldn’t have left several key parties in the dark on this.
