It does make sense when discussing an egomaniac. If he’s going to die, so is a good part of the world.
This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
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Her and Madison try really hard. Got to give them credit.
While I think it will be a little slower than you think from here on out, the bigger question remains, "to what end?" Sanctions are not an end in themselves - that's a bit of a western/american mindset. Usually, the point of sanctions is to (i) create popular suffering so as to undermine domestic political support, resulting in regime change, (ii) create popular suffering so as to undermine domestic political support resulting in policy change, or (iii) to erode the capacity to make war (eg, by limiting raw materials, etc.).
My point is that the Russian system is not going to have a problem handling either (i) or (ii), since popular support (or even oligarchical support) is not the underpinning of the regime or policy. That leaves us with (iii), which will occur, but in a command/authoritarian economy, unfortunately slower than we might hope.
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I really wish that we had a requirement of passing a standard civic’s exam as well as having a required IQ test with a minimum threshold attained, in order to run for federal office. Would weed out a lot of these dimwits and maybe we could get something accomplished.
What if Putin calculates the US/NATO won’t respond in kind if he uses a couple tactical nukes on the Ukrainians to make them concede?
He’d probably be right…we aren’t about to start trading nuclear strikes with the Russians over Ukraine. Lots of horrible possibilities in this conflict and I put nothing past Putin at this point.
And nobody argues against that when talking about a rational actor.
WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE HE AND THE 2-3 OTHER PEOPLE NEEDED TO ESCALATE THIS ARE RATIONAL ACTORS.
JFC, nobody on here has said they think it's likely he launches tactical nukes or a full out end of world launch. But they realize there's a chance, ever if only slightly, that he will. I understand that your, and a few other posters, dismissal of this possible outcome is likely some sort of coping mechanism to take stress off, it's understandable. But luckily those in power are smart enough to seriously consider that chance.
It's the only reason NATO hasn't put boots on the ground.
- Sep 13, 2002
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Madison is up there…very punchable as well. She takes the cake though…
Umm…when you’re talking nukes it changes calculations.
If Russia didn’t have nukes US/NATO would be knee deep in Russia’s ass at this point
And nobody is letting him “win” we’re doing about all we can considering the Nuke element
I effing hate that woman. A true pig of a human.
Funny. Was on a work/partner meeting call briefing earlier today where, for what i suspect was probably the first time in the history of my firm, the phrase "tactical nuke" was used. And not in a metaphorical sense.
Bet the US would love to get their hands on one of these if they haven't already. But don't see how it effects the aircraft we deny the Ukrainians.
Where is all this Putin "winning" that Kasparov is talking about? The empty grocery shelves? The 10,000 KIA? The tank factories shutting down? The business leaving the country?
Who's "letting him win" those things?
- Sep 13, 2002
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I think the presumption is the Ukrainians can say "You want a look at this thing? We're gonna need you to get us some planes first."
That is the only thing that could make this more poignant, - the drummer playing along with a tape of the rest of the band that is now in the army.
The only thing is, if it is what they say, and it's that secret, i have my doubts they'd be posting pictures of it on the internet.
They're part of the Provocateur Caucus. It's as if the voters elected some Shock Jocks.
I’m telling you the dude reads from the Book of Sherman on war
You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it;
Or maybe LeMay:
There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders.
- - -
I'll tell you what war is about, you've got to kill people, and when you've killed enough they stop fighting.
I would "like" this post but can't......make me vomit.
I think you're probably right and we're seeing that mindset in the indiscriminate bombing of Ukrainian cities...
I just don't see him backing down...his military is bogged down and probably can't get the Ukrainian's to concede conventionally.
Just opens up a bunch of horrible possibilities...
If you’re trying to win a war, do you want him, or McNamara leading the charge?
- Sep 13, 2002
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Well they do use slaves. . . but they are probably too small to invade anyone.
Also should be noted (and I know that you know this), that war has changed a lot since LeMay and others. B-29s dropping bombs at high altitude vs PGM's is going to make warfare look a lot worse in the lens of history.
Hell, look at what Japanese manufacturing was like in WWII. They were assembling aircraft in backyards of residential areas. The firebombing was horrific, but if your job is to save American lives in a war you didn't start, your options get murky. We even went so far as to drop leaflets over Japanese cities letting them know that such and such cities would be bombed in the next few days and to evacuate. Even if they didn't end up bombing all of them them they shut down some manufacturing when some residents left.
Neither. I don't want a pansy or nuclear annihilation.
- Sep 13, 2002
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I’ve somewhere early in this mega thread Battlefront.com and their war sims. Back in 2009 they created a hypothetical NATO/UKR vs RUS scenario called Combat Mission: Black Sea.
Anywho, lots of foreign commentators on their forum as their games were initially WW2 based with a broad audience.
They have a thread over 300 pages, with at least one member (Haiduk) a Ukrainian native.
I read this comment today and thought it worth sharing, for another perspective:
Regarding FALLOUT…
In my previous life (before getting my first after college job in USA) I was a volunteer in Slovenian Territorial Defense, draftee in Yugoslav National Army (Skopje - Macedonia, School for NCOs, Motorized Infantry, Junior Sergeant), and JNA Army reservist (2nd Lt (Reserve) in Slovenia, 1982 - 1987).
Yugoslavia in 1961-1990 was a non-aligned socialist country ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement#:~:text=The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM,largest grouping of states worldwide. ) and never in Warsaw pact.
Yugoslavia since 1948 considered Warsaw Pact the main treat and thus positioned 90% of 250,000 standing army facing Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian and Albanian border. We had to invested about 10% of GDP in defense – expensive but at least we never got attacked by Soviet Union. There was a mandatory draft after high school, 12 + 3 months active service and then mandatory reserve service until 60/65 years of age.
While in Army reserve (1982-1989), I (my unit) was told if the Third Word War would happen it would start by Warsaw Pacts troops attacking trough Fulda Gap, Northern Germany plain and through Vienna and northern Austria.
Yugoslavia would try to remain neutral but highly likely Soviet and Hungarian tank and mechanized divisions would invade from SE corner of current Hungarian-Slovenian border through river Mura plain, try to penetrate through “Ljubljana gate” and reach important ports in northern Italy and Southern France. I was told we would then of course fully mobilize, flood the river Mura, and defend "Ljubljana gate."
Plan was (if needed) to get reinforced by (the elements of) US 173rd Airborne Brigade from Vicenza, Italy. Job of my platoon was to hunt and kill Soviet Spetsnaz in my home city Ljubljana.
I asked, OK, we stop the Soviets at the gate, what is next?
And I was told they will use chemical weapons first, and then tactical nuclear weapons, OR immediately tactical nuclear weapons.
What about the fallout, I asked, and was told:
1/ Soviets do not care about their troops, they will remain well protected in their armor,
2/ they will use airburst(s) thus causing much less fallout, and
3/ they will use something which at that time was called “neutron bomb”/ tactical nuclear weapons, which produce a lot of radiation killing the enemy (us) but little material damage and fallout.
I was also told that (at that time in the eighties) Soviet Union was ruled by a Politburo of up to ten important members and Secretary General (Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko,…) could not by himself order to use strategic nuclear weapons, and if the global thermonuclear war happened the Soviet Union would be able to save the biggest percentage of their population, because they spent a lot of resources building strong civil defense shelters.
That was of course thirty-five years ago.
Russians now has several hundreds of low yield tactical/battlefield nuclear weapons that can be delivered by rockets, planes, and artillery, right?
There is no more Politburo to manage Putin.
Civil defense shelters were updated. I was an expat in Moscow in 2001 and some of my former coworkers that were ex FSB/ Soviet military, were bragging that at least a third of Russian city population would survive a major nuclear attack.
Putin’s former wife and both daughters, and his new wife with three children have already been evacuated to one of the main nuclear bomb shelters in Ural Mountains.
IMHO, only Cuban crisis had more potential for a global cataclysm.
Anywho, lots of foreign commentators on their forum as their games were initially WW2 based with a broad audience.
They have a thread over 300 pages, with at least one member (Haiduk) a Ukrainian native.
I read this comment today and thought it worth sharing, for another perspective:
Regarding FALLOUT…
In my previous life (before getting my first after college job in USA) I was a volunteer in Slovenian Territorial Defense, draftee in Yugoslav National Army (Skopje - Macedonia, School for NCOs, Motorized Infantry, Junior Sergeant), and JNA Army reservist (2nd Lt (Reserve) in Slovenia, 1982 - 1987).
Yugoslavia in 1961-1990 was a non-aligned socialist country ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement#:~:text=The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM,largest grouping of states worldwide. ) and never in Warsaw pact.
Yugoslavia since 1948 considered Warsaw Pact the main treat and thus positioned 90% of 250,000 standing army facing Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian and Albanian border. We had to invested about 10% of GDP in defense – expensive but at least we never got attacked by Soviet Union. There was a mandatory draft after high school, 12 + 3 months active service and then mandatory reserve service until 60/65 years of age.
While in Army reserve (1982-1989), I (my unit) was told if the Third Word War would happen it would start by Warsaw Pacts troops attacking trough Fulda Gap, Northern Germany plain and through Vienna and northern Austria.
Yugoslavia would try to remain neutral but highly likely Soviet and Hungarian tank and mechanized divisions would invade from SE corner of current Hungarian-Slovenian border through river Mura plain, try to penetrate through “Ljubljana gate” and reach important ports in northern Italy and Southern France. I was told we would then of course fully mobilize, flood the river Mura, and defend "Ljubljana gate."
Plan was (if needed) to get reinforced by (the elements of) US 173rd Airborne Brigade from Vicenza, Italy. Job of my platoon was to hunt and kill Soviet Spetsnaz in my home city Ljubljana.
I asked, OK, we stop the Soviets at the gate, what is next?
And I was told they will use chemical weapons first, and then tactical nuclear weapons, OR immediately tactical nuclear weapons.
What about the fallout, I asked, and was told:
1/ Soviets do not care about their troops, they will remain well protected in their armor,
2/ they will use airburst(s) thus causing much less fallout, and
3/ they will use something which at that time was called “neutron bomb”/ tactical nuclear weapons, which produce a lot of radiation killing the enemy (us) but little material damage and fallout.
I was also told that (at that time in the eighties) Soviet Union was ruled by a Politburo of up to ten important members and Secretary General (Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko,…) could not by himself order to use strategic nuclear weapons, and if the global thermonuclear war happened the Soviet Union would be able to save the biggest percentage of their population, because they spent a lot of resources building strong civil defense shelters.
That was of course thirty-five years ago.
Russians now has several hundreds of low yield tactical/battlefield nuclear weapons that can be delivered by rockets, planes, and artillery, right?
There is no more Politburo to manage Putin.
Civil defense shelters were updated. I was an expat in Moscow in 2001 and some of my former coworkers that were ex FSB/ Soviet military, were bragging that at least a third of Russian city population would survive a major nuclear attack.
Putin’s former wife and both daughters, and his new wife with three children have already been evacuated to one of the main nuclear bomb shelters in Ural Mountains.
IMHO, only Cuban crisis had more potential for a global cataclysm.
Listened to several podcasts on subject and Japan in general during wwii. They echoed you statements.
people need to remember the fire bombings of Tokyo killed more than the atomic bombs. Japan had a policy of making the battles horrific. to force United States to negotiate a settlement. They knew they couldn’t win if it played out to its conclusion. The atrocities the Japanese military committed on United States soldiers was horrific.
Probably because I stole a lot of shit from Dan Carlin's show.
I would be ashamed to quote anything that crazy broad would say or put on paper, she is dumber than dog shit.
The democrats probably have a couple that aren't very bright but nobody can touch the bottom feeders of the Republican party in Congress - Greene, Boebert, Cawthorn in particular. Just beyond idiotic. No business whatsoever making decisions for the rest of the American populace.
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