This might be a little tougher than Putin thought...
- Thread starter Nole Lou
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We've made it abundantly clear we'd honor our NATO treaty obligations militarily.
He attacks a NATO member it's game on....he knows it.
Biden: U.S. Commitment to NATO’s Article 5 Is Ironclad
WASHINGTON—President Biden reiterated the U.S. commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s Article 5, which says an attack on one member of the alliance is an attack on all and compels allies to come to each others’ aid. “As I said yesterday, the United States will defend every inch of N
www.wsj.com
What is different about Putin launching a war on a nuclear armed alliance of 30 nations?
The risk of escalating the war is the scenario you’ve outlined. You’re asking how is the worst case scenario different from making Ukraine into a worst case scenario.
We all just watched this dude seriously miscalculate. You pin hopes on him not miscalculating again if we escalate the war in a manner he has already threatened will result in "consequences greater than any you have faced in history”?
We can’t unring the bell if he responds by nuking the second largest city in the Baltics and Poland, and says “get out of this war, or it gets worse”.
Nobody gets to ‘win’ after that line gets crossed.
Just various degrees of losing for all of us.
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anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
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And I agree with that stance, but I don’t see how that changes my point.We've made it abundantly clear we'd honor our NATO treaty obligations militarily.
He attacks a NATO member it's game on....he knows it.
Biden: U.S. Commitment to NATO’s Article 5 Is Ironclad
WASHINGTON—President Biden reiterated the U.S. commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s Article 5, which says an attack on one member of the alliance is an attack on all and compels allies to come to each others’ aid. “As I said yesterday, the United States will defend every inch of N
Why would suddenly nuclear war be palatable at that point compared to now, when we’re seeing what we’re seeing of the horrific acts?
If the risk of nuclear war outweighs all of this, then shouldn’t it also outweigh the risk of him doing this to other European countries?
"It seems that in one day we fired Kabaeva and deprived her of a billion in income. Her page has disappeared from the National Media Group website. Yesterday, when I posted the thread, Kabaeva's page was in place. And now she's gone. Hahaha, they really believe that this will help to avoid sanctions"
It's called deterrence....Putin hasn't crossed that NATO country line because of it. He knows he'd get his ass kicked. If he didn't respect that line he'd have gone after the easy targets called the Baltic states....he hasn't touched them. Why? NATO...
It's pretty much that simple...
With the ass whoopin the Ukrainians have given him the talk of him moving on Poland or any other NATO country is pretty silly...
He claimed to have had eight Covid-19 vaccinations. He contracted coronavirus and died weeks after being admitted to hospital with pneumonia.
Putin's ultranationalist ally and clown dies at 75 - BBC News
Vladimir Zhirinovsky has died in hospital, after a career built on fiery remarks and absurd antics.
www.bbc.com
A
anon_b29nm7v7dwp6r
Guest
I guess I’m confused, I thought he was a Putin ally, but I also see he must have run against him for president?He claimed to have had eight Covid-19 vaccinations. He contracted coronavirus and died weeks after being admitted to hospital with pneumonia.
Putin's ultranationalist ally and clown dies at 75 - BBC News
Vladimir Zhirinovsky has died in hospital, after a career built on fiery remarks and absurd antics.
Guess their vaccines suck....apparently the Chinese vaccines suck as well.He claimed to have had eight Covid-19 vaccinations. He contracted coronavirus and died weeks after being admitted to hospital with pneumonia.
Putin's ultranationalist ally and clown dies at 75 - BBC News
Vladimir Zhirinovsky has died in hospital, after a career built on fiery remarks and absurd antics.
Right. There are people who are allowed to run against Putin so that he has people to beat. Kind of an “official opposition”, like scheduling Northern Iowa for football.
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You think Wesley Clark and David Patreus are dipshits?
Both have discounted the nuclear threat in their call for amped up weapons delivery and pressure from NATO/Europe.
I still can't believe that 80 years after WW2 a nation can destroy another nation with virtual impunity. Whole cities are being erased and the civilian death count will surely total in the 100s of thousands when all is said and done. But feel good - not an inch of NATO soil has been violated...yet.
The nuclear shit is just a bluff. India and Pakistan are killing each other all the time and have nukes. Putin knows if he uses nukes his Russian empire is radioactive waste. He isn't retarded.
No doubt, the nuclear threat is a strange one in that it is generally unusable. BUT, I am having a hard time thinking of a previous crisis situation (including India and Pakistan) where the potential end game of the conventional conflict included a potential existential threat to the leadership of one side or the other. Indeed, it is a key assumption of nonproliferation doctrine that the most important people to keep nuclear weapons away from are the ones who, for religious, military, or whatever other reasons, feel like they have nothing to lose.
This is a little different, and probably a particularly good instance where a nuclear deterrent -- particularly one in which a state has tactical nukes as part of its doctrine - is best not to be "testing" for shits and giggles.
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I’m for amped up weapons delivery.
I’m talking about direct military intervention…which neither of them are calling for to my knowledge
Arming them is part of the Cold War “rules”. Soviets armed NK and China in the Korean War and the Armed the North Vietnamese.
I’m for helping the Ukrainians short of direct military involvement
I don't really know much about him but from what I've gathered online, many say he was a far right leader who even far right people in Russia didn't take seriously. Sort of the over the top idiot saying idiotic things to make Putin and other seem reasonable. He was allowed to function in this capacity because he served the role of saying outlandish things well.
If you have any other questions I'll need to consult the reddit threads again.
You will cross the redline. It is just a matter of time.
Well that was an easy Google to find out why. More BS propaganda.
Check The Rolling Stone for details.
Or it could be that Ukraine is the much more lucrative prize for the Russians. If NATO does not respond militarily to the invasion and atrocities in Ukraine, because of the nuclear threat, Putin could just as well assume that NATO would take the same stance with attacks on the Baltic states.
Additionally, if trump should regain the presidency in 2025, the NATO charter would be as worthless as the tits on a boar. The European members would not respond militarily if the US refuses to.
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But we, and other NATO members, already have troops already in the Baltic states.
If that's the case, it says just as much about European NATO members as it does us.
We have made it clear on how we’d respond to an attack on a NATO member.
Biden: U.S. Commitment to NATO’s Article 5 Is Ironclad
WASHINGTON—President Biden reiterated the U.S. commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s Article 5, which says an attack on one member of the alliance is an attack on all and compels allies to come to each others’ aid. “As I said yesterday, the United States will defend every inch of N
www.wsj.com
We made it clear before Russia attacked Ukraine we wouldn’t respond militarily.
Biden tells U.S. citizens to leave Ukraine, saying military wouldn't rescue them
"That's a world war — when Americans and Russians start shooting at one another, we're in a very different world than we've ever been in," President Biden said.
www.npr.org
It’s as simple as that.
- Sep 13, 2002
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Republican Voters Are Now America’s Foreign Policy Doves
What polling tells us about the GOP and Ukraine.
www.thebulwark.com
Interesting. What was proposed in the podcast was that many countries were starting to complain about the inability to receive fertilizer from Russia. Brazil being one of them. Perhaps it is exempt, but it's still hard to ship?
Well, Clark did try to start WW3 a few decades ago.
His judgement isn’t unquestioned.
Nato supreme commander General Wesley Clark is not being allowed to fade away quietly. Days after the Clinton administration relieved him of his command two months early, Newsweek is reporting that the victor of Kosovo was blocked from sending paratroopers to Pristina airport to pre-empt an unexpected Russian advance.
Lieutenant-general Sir Michael Jackson overruled General Clark because the British commander did not want to spark a clash with the Russians.
"I'm not going to start Third World War for you," General Jackson told the US commander, according to Newsweek. In the hours that followed General Clark's order, both men sought political backing for their position, but only General Jackson received it.
News of the clash between the British and US commanders comes just days after the US snubbed General Clark by ordering him to step down next year, two months early, to make way for Air Force General Joseph Ralston, vice chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.
The move is widely seen as a rebuke for the man who led Nato to victory, but who clashed repeatedly with his superiors because he favoured more aggressive tactics.
