Three Team Race
- Thread starter Azchief32
- Start date
You may not like the verbiage Hounded used, but that shouldn't take away from him pointing out the inaccuracy of your post. Hounded gave a flowery, explosive post that was much more accurate and truthful than your post, yet you chose to paint him as an extremist simply because he pointed out your error and you didn't like that. You made a prime example of yourself in a different way.
Enjoy the fun, civil, back and forth debates all you want, just don't start name calling and then trying to paint yourself in a calm, good natured way as the good guy.
Theres a reason I stopped posting over there chief, I respect you for fighting the good fight but if you compare this year to last year its a world a difference on both forums. Anything that is 'denigrating' here is taken up 3 notches over there.
Make a comment about a PSU wrestler stalling in a certain position in one particular match, over there: "OMG THEY THINK WE'RE ALL STALLERS! F IOWA! YADA YADA BRANDS IS A CLOWN CANT COACH! IOWA RASSLERS IS A BUNCHA PUNKS!" Followed by ass slaps all around. Basically anything said about PSU here is exaggerated over there and then the 'retaliation' is double. Bandwagon fans: fans who only show up when the team is doing good. I didn't see half these PSU posters over here or on their boards last year. Bring that up then the response is "Hey have you seen this years team, we're gonna rock Iowa! Iowa will never sniff a title again! PSU is the next dynasty!"
Obviously you know I respect level headed posters from all fan bases, but some of that garbage reminds me of stuff I used to read on the guillotine all the time.
In all fairness, the treatment on many boards, this one included, can be a little rough after a visitor's team has a few good years, then a down one. "Relationships" are built up over time. Despite the hatred PSU has for Michigan's referines in football, there were a few UM posters that were welcomed good or bad because of the developed relationships. Ditto for a few tOSU posters. I don't know enough technically to hang with most, so I just hang out on the periphery here and there and only stir the pot in fun when I want to take that risk.
As always, a fountain of wisdom LAX. I am thinking of one bandwagon fan in particular who's own guys were asking "Where's Waldo?" during last season. He even posted nice things having to do with Iowa a few times over here. When he figured he wasn't going to eat Iowa fan turds (about the time Iowa was permanently in second), his old self showed up. I'm guessing you know it is.
Funny thing is, Iowa fans are largely complimentary to the PSU wrestlers. Most rooted for DT over Dake and when he won in Oklahoma his last year, there were a lot of attaboys. Yes, we have our Ped State guy...the NLWCcash conspiracy but much of it is shot down by Iowa fans.
A tip to NittanyChris...Pack a lunch if you want to go around with Hounded...just a friendly warning.
Haven't seen too many PSU posters in the football and basketball forums the past couple years....(not complaining in the least). Come to think of it, we didn't see too many PSU wrestling fans around last year either.
I think most people here respect what Cael has done at PSU. It's the chest thumping, hypocritical, pot stirring, delusional, bandwagon fan base we can do without. If I wanted to be part of that scene, I'd check-in at the font of wit that is BWI or themat more often.
Our rivals wrestling board doesn't get a ton of traffic. But Chief has built up some goodwill, as have a few others. And most of us know that Chief's a little more complimentary toward PSU there than here. And the good guys on either board are OK with that. And in the few posts I make over there I'm more likely to make lighthearted jabs toward "rivals" and most of you should be okay with that.
I'm not quite 69 yet, so anytime anybody from TetonValley wants to try his moves, I'm ready ;-) (And by the way, if that's a western trout fishing place I'll bring the scotch and beer and all will be forgotten)
I may have been a few HR posters' Econ TA back in the day. I hope you got a good grade, but I wasn't easy ;-) Here's to hoping PSU's health catches up to Iowa's health in the next 5 weeks so we see the best wrestling at B1Gs.
Don't lecture on who is a reasonable fan when you spout the most unreasonable things.
Haha Mike on the moves, scotch and beer. I am actually very complimentary to PSU on here. If I wasn't, some copy and pasting would be done on BWI to shove in my face, goodwill or not. You know the guys that would do it. Everything I have posted today on here, I posted on BWI...hell, even my supposed insult of Cael by calling him pragmatic enough to realize the state of Iowa wasn't big enough after not being able to win at ISUwas actually kind of a compliment. Just got feisty today because I am tired of the little man complex the permeates out of there in regards to Iowa and Brands. Boys, you have yourself a hell of a good team...sit back and enjoy it. BTW Mike, sounds like Cutch is just dinged up and should be good to go. Have a scotch for me...I am more of a Jameson's guy much to the chagrin of my Scottish mother.
I have some Black Bush, Redbreast 12, and Knappogue Castle on hand if you want to swing by. I'm an old track guy, so if you try a blast double, I'm outta here before your chin even hits the floor.
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This.
Since leaving ISU for PSU, Cael has had remarkable success in recruiting, and I think simply pointing this out makes many of the PSU hypersensitive, and they think one is saying Cael can't coach.
No one is saying he can't coach, but rather, just that it is hard to tell how good of a coach he is given that he typically has the #1 ranked HS guy in his weight class for most of the lineup. At ISU he did not, and surprise.... no 4-peat, not even a single team title.
But times have changed. With talent rich PA and neighboring NJ, NY, his recruiting has reached the stratosphere.
You take the best HS wrestlers in the country at most weight classes, and they become very good and great collegiate wrestlers.... is that really a big surprise?
Contrary to what NittanyChris said, no other team comes close to PSU in grabbing the very top guys.
Here are the numbers for current Iowa and PSU lineups with their HS wt ranking:
125 Iowa #4, PSU #1
133 Iowa #3, PSU #12
141 Iowa # 17, PSU #1
149 Iowa # 5, PSU #1
157 Iowa #5, PSU #1
165 Iowa #10, PSU #4
174 Iowa # 4, PSU #1
184 Iowa # 2, PSU #4
197 Iowa #(not in top 10?), PSU #1
Hwt Iowa #3, PSU #1 (Nevills)
As you can see, Brands has pulled in solid guys, but not a single #1. PSU has gotten 6 #1 guys. Overall, it isn't really much of a contest, recruiting wise. The fact that Brands has continually produced great teams and individual champions DOES show his coaching skills.
I wasn't someone rooting for DT, I guarantee that. I had the insight to know what a successful pen state team would bring to the wrestling world. I guess some others are finally waking up to this new reality.
I suppose if you like to post over there that is your choice. But let's not assume your posts there don't attract flies over here. Again, that is your choice and we all live with the consequences of a free exchange of posts between bro's. They likely feel like it's okay to post here for the same reasons. Which, of course, is their right. Some feel the constant barbs and trolling is just in good fun, and the latest pen state news is essential to the Iowa site. I don't and that's my opinion.
I'v been here since 2008/2009 and didn't start seeing you (azchief) post on this site until much later, about the time all the pen staters showed up. {Curious glance over shoulder} So my first experience with this board was not as a pen state-lite website. It was a 100% Iowa site, with a few exceptions, the content about rivals was provided by other Iowa posters. I seldom, if ever, talked about or engaged trolls because they went away on their own. I was not the guy throwing shock grenades into the crowd. Some of our rival posters were then, and even are now, entertaining.
When you came to this site and began to post in earnest, it was beginning to be a much different site from what most of us had known before. Your experience is different as compared to longtime posters/viewers. You, and others like you, may view the pen staters differently as a result. To you they are and have been an integral part of this site. Some of these pen staters actually have been around a long time, but the majority are what we now experience.
Azchief, you are an Iowa fan, no doubt, and add a friendly sense of humor to the site. You like to be the voice of reason, the peacemaker. Who knows, right dude? You also don't get too upset about the long line of pen state trolls who are ruining this site. I do, and I'd suspect a lot of other long time Iowa fans feel the same, but don't bother posting or just ignore the lot of them.
Again, these are my opinions. Probably in the minority--fine with me. Maybe a majority of posters and members here like the constant pen state interjections of truth and wisdom to us heathens. Again, I don't like it.
Finally, I'm not pushing a website, I post on one site, I use one login name, same as it ever was. I am just a hardcore fan--an Iowa fan. I'll even admit my Joe Pa stuff has been over the line at times, but it's apparently the only thing that give them pause. However, I will also apologize to long time Iowa viewers and posters if my Joe Pa comments were out of line. I will not repeat that on our site again. I would only ask our more active posters to address trollish comments from rivals in a vigorous manner.
Thank you for your post 86_90. Nice explanation. Thank you also for your realization that your PedState posts were a bit much. Time to retire that line of attack. It was getting quite old and annoying. Especially for the Iowa regulars who are here all the time. You were at the point of making a lot of US more upset than the PSU visitors and I know that was not what your intention was.
Welcome back from the Dark Side................
Well, that explains why he would not release them from there scholarship. He had the beginning stages of Parkinson's and completely lost his mind and no I do not know where he went to undergrad school. Really can't say that I care. He tried to ruin those boys life because they wanted to follow the coach that recruited them, that they trusted. What a deuche.
As per normal, some of them are good guys, no doubt. Similar interests, different rooting interests, which of course is a guaranteed lightning rod for conflict due to the IQ variance on the planet (there are a lot of dipshits, in real life you can just walk away, or punch them in the mouth and then walk away, whatever your personal preference is..............
Not an advocate for violence, just stating options!). That said, I came here initially after moving out of state, it was my conduit to talk Iowa Wrestling with Iowa Fans, and was able to do so for years without too much "outside" interference, and that mindset hasn't changed (the only decent guy I remember from "back then" was Mr. Blonde from Okie State - one of the rare visitors to this site). That is far and away my preference, and always has been. Frankly I don't care what other fanbases think about Iowa sports of any kind, I want to know what my fellow Hawk fans think, about Iowa and our competition.
What we need is for Iowa to start kicking ass again on the mat. That will take care of the "problem" overnight. Guaranteed. Here's to hoping that comes to fruition.
My apologies to the "good guys" of the "other" fanbases, but the fact of the matter is you're outnumbered in your own ranks, and it just isn't worth it to converse with you while putting up with them. The Ignore function works well, but I don't think it was intended to store enough names to take up half the available space on your hard drive..................
Wow, that PSU coach can recruit? I think they got Mark Hall, who is better than Zain! Scary thought.
When I got here, PSU were going on their second title so that may explain the influx of them onto this site. As others have noted, last year saw a drastic reduction in smack talking from them here as they knew Cael essentially pulled the plug on their title chances. When I am on their site, I am respectful for the most part and give my opinion on their wrestlers...unless the B.S. gets too thick ...then I run off at the mouth.
I don't know about "peacemaker"...I am more into honest debate. For example, one can feel free to explain why we have better coaches. However, don't throw around baseless allegations such as a PSU slush fund when nobody has proof. A narrative from them is that most Iowa wrestlers hated wrestling for Brands because he burns them out or something. I try to call it like it is on both sides.
As for repelling the demon hordes, I feel as if I have done my fair share on this site. I don't get upset at legit PSU posters putting their wrestling opinion out there, though. It's a discussion board. I just think you and I have a different definition of what a troll is. I try to counter arguments with humor, logic but yea, I have been known to let some curse words fly or award the title of DBag to one or two trolls.
Glad you are not going to do the Ped State thing anymore. Always thought it was beneath you because I've seen your wrestling posts...you didn't need it and it was intellectually dishonest. It was my only beef with you because I suspect we agree on a lot of things both wrestling and otherwise.
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Just wondering. Your primary word is "douche". Are you describing an individual, such as yourself" who has shown to be very brainless in one way or another or just comparing yourself to the cleansing product? Now I'm smart enough to know that you will respond to this post so I'm going to put you on "ignore".
I do not question caels coaching or recruiting abilities, but I do question his loyalty. he could have been god at his alma mater.he screwed bobby d. and anyone else that he cannot use will get the same treatment.i don't know why anyone with any self respect would want to be part of his world.
Your the first guy that I have ever put on ignore. Congratulations, but I don't run from my comments.Just wondering. Your primary word is "douche". Are you describing an individual, such as yourself" who has shown to be very brainless in one way or another or just comparing yourself to the cleansing product? Now I'm smart enough to know that you will respond to this post so I'm going to put you on "ignore".
Look, there's no way you can make me say that Carl is the best guy coaching, when I still think Belichick is just some clown that seems to have a perpetual lucky streak. Some say Bill makes thoroughbreds out of nags, but we all seem to agree that Carl can make thoroughbreds out of studs.
I like those stories of guys coming out of nowhere. Daniel Dennis is perhaps the best example I've seen of a coach making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Cael's best example of this is probably English's AA run a few years ago. I think a Daniel Dennis type story would really solidify Cael as a premier developer of talent but his embarrassment of riches in recruiting make that unlikely. He's a great coach regardless.
Matt Brown, Jordan Conaway, James English, Jimmy Vollrath (beat Dieringer and helped win a B1G title but couldn't win a spot). Rasheed was ranked in the 60s and he's ranked in the top 10 as a rsFrosh. Zach Bietz (unranked). Matt McCutcheon. Anthony Cassar.
Yes, there is very little evidence that the PSU in the short time under Cael cannot develop guys unless they are top 10 recruits.
Yes, there is very little evidence that the PSU in the short time under Cael cannot develop guys unless they are top 10 recruits.
Finally we agree on something
Not really sure I would lump Matt Brown in this group. He was a Top 30 recruit (#27). Basically what about every guy on the Iowa team is.
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Recruiting_2008.html
or McC #32
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2013.html
or Rasheed #43
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top150_2014.html
I get it that these guys aren't not the 5 star recruits you are used to but they are what Iowa has basically been working with the last 5 years.
Iowa's Lineup
Gilman #16
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2012.html
Clark #23
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2012.html
Grothus #108
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top150_2011.html
Sorenson #27
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2013.html
Cooper #30
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top150_2011.html
Rhoads #136 Paddock #63
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top150_2011.html
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top150_2014.html
Myer #41
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2012.html
Brooks #20
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top200_2012.html
Burak ??
Stoll #14
http://d1collegewrestling.net/Top150_2014.html
Hey recruiting is part of coaching. And Cael can recruit. I think the Brands' recruiting has picked up in the last year and half. Hopefully we can pull it out this year and use that as momentum on the recruiting front.
I don't think we even have to out-recruit PSU to win. I really don't. But we have not been in the same stratosphere the last 4 years.
It has become abundantly clear that the high school scene (rankings) today weeds out the top talent a lot better than it did 10-20 years ago. Even with that I still think we can beat PSU if we just get 1 top ten kid to their 3 a year.
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Name calling? OK, I guess we see it differently. You can argue all you want about the "truthfulness" of his response, you're entitled to your opinion. Not painting myself as anything.
Matt Brown was ranked #88 coming out. The article you are referencing is the "rewind" - where they rerank them after 5 years.
Upon further review it seems that I have a double negative in my statement above, so you may want to revist the agreement, lol. But then again the sarcasm should cancel one of the negatives so I guess we ARE in agreement.
No interest in going around with Hounded. He showed his true colors in his response. No use debating someone like that. Not worth it.
Dennis didn't win a state title and stands a great chance of going to the Olympics. None of those examples you cited above come even close but nice try.
I dislike PSU for reasons that have nothing to do Cael or his athletes. I can understand how the few rational PSU fans would not want to lower themselves by posting at cesspools like BWI and themat where the content has nothing to do with wrestling and everything to do with bashing Iowa and blowing Cael.
I think most posters here welcome fans of other programs who want to talk wrestling with the caveat this is an Iowa board and you are our guests.
He was last week in FLO. Possibly not this week, I'm not sure. Either way he has been floating around 10 to 12 for a month now.
I would agree that Dennis is a great example, as is a guy like Keith Gavin who went to Pitt. Not sure if you thought my post was in direct response to yours because it was below yours, but it was in response to the posts above yours.
Wish you would say it like you think, instead of sugar coating it.
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Diceman, I agree Matt Brown is a guy that was ranked lower, at #88 p4p and clearly improved under Cael (and great workout partners in Ruth, Q, McIntosh). But other than that, you don't make a strong case for turning lower ranked guys into AA's or champions.
Everyone else you listed (McCutch, Conaway, English, Volrath, and Bietz) to show Cael's coaching prowess, has yielded only a single AA - an 8th place finish for Conaway. Not exactly world beaters, and without the real horses, these guys would not help PSU crack the top 10. Rasheed and Cassar are as yet unproven fr.
I think it's pretty clear that the ncaa point getters for PSU are the guys that are already at the top of their weight classes coming out of HS, often #1 at their weight and many of them in the top 10 p4p. This describes Taylor, Ruth, Megaludis, McIntosh, Retherford, Nevills, Nolf and Nickal - top 10 all. Incoming Suriano and Hall may prove to be still more.
Take Retherford - #1 in his weight class coming out of HS, #3 p4p, and a cadet World FS champ. As a true fr, he beats Steiber, something no one imagined. So while Cael may have helped him develop, it's pretty clear he was something special coming out of HS, and about as blue ribbon as they come.
By contrast, Iowa's starting roster shows Gilman as the highest ranked recruit at #16p4p, and #4 in his weight class. At 141 everyone is pinning their hopes on Grothus, who was #17 in his weight class and #108 p4p.
I apologize for sounding like a broken record, and I think Iowa is now starting to get some top 10 guys - Kemerer, Marianelli next year, plus a verbal from Mejia. Hopefully this will continue, and put Iowa back on top.
