Cael may have been more loyal to stay in Ames, but I'm guessing with everything on the table and looked at with an open mind only an idiot would have turned that down. I'm doubting he has many regrets. The recruits coming out of that area have been good for years, but Cael actually gets them to stay local. Recruiting is a large part of coaching. If we are going to make excuses for not winning I'm ok with that, but I don't think Brands would agree. He owns it.
Three Team Race
- Thread starter Azchief32
- Start date
Back to the team race...
According to Tbar on TheMat, Nevills has been cleared to wrestle. Also as I was writing this checked BWI and they posted this excerpt from the PSU coaches radio show..
On Nevills: "I also wrestled Nevills, and he feels fine too. I had to play some 'old man' tricks to keep it close." Cael said Nevills is cleared to wrestle, and that he talked to Nevills' dad today. Said they'll pray about the course forward from here.
According to Tbar on TheMat, Nevills has been cleared to wrestle. Also as I was writing this checked BWI and they posted this excerpt from the PSU coaches radio show..
On Nevills: "I also wrestled Nevills, and he feels fine too. I had to play some 'old man' tricks to keep it close." Cael said Nevills is cleared to wrestle, and that he talked to Nevills' dad today. Said they'll pray about the course forward from here.
I'm under the impression that the bottom line is winning championships. Cael is doing just that and the way it looks will continue to It for a very long time. So, all the side discussions like his loyalty, his coaching ability, recruiting, why does it even matter? Does telling yourself that he's not great at developing talent help you sleep at night or something? Does telling yourself hes not very loyal magically make NCAA titles disappear? Really, I'm asking cuz from where I stand if his poor coaching and disloyalty keeps him on the same path then give me more of the same. I'll even do some of you a favor and admit that he sucks as a coach and is loyal to no one. I would hate to take away those warm fuzzy thoughts and opinions that keep you from remembering that he's doing exactly what he's paid to do, which is to bring his University the hardware.
if winning championship is the most important thing god help us. Johnstown I take it you are a resident of penn., do you think cael strung chance and haines along. I truly belive both of those guys thought they were going to and really wanted to wrestle for penn. st. cael let them believe they were part of his plans until they no longer were of value to him. these are 2 of most successful high school wrestlers in your great tradition. if I was a penn. native I would be outraged by this treatment of our own.
I can not comment or draw an opinion because I have absolutely no idea the facts behind those two recruits. I will gladly do so if you can give me concrete evidence or facts proving that Cael did them wrong in any way.
Btw, I do admit that Cael leading PSU to NCAA championships is more important to me that his loyalty to ISU or even a Hawkeyes fans opinion on whether the man can coach or not. It may be a twisted way of looking at things but that's how I feel.
Btw, I do admit that Cael leading PSU to NCAA championships is more important to me that his loyalty to ISU or even a Hawkeyes fans opinion on whether the man can coach or not. It may be a twisted way of looking at things but that's how I feel.
Not like Gavin was a slouch. He was a multiple time Fargo AA and got 2nd or 3rd his senior year.
As I said in one of my posts, he has four rings and busload of studs so that's all that really matters.
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Flying tigs, I'm not 100% correct in every single post, but I try to be accurate and I'm willing to admit when I overlook something or am wrong as I was in not catching English's 7th place AA finish in his sr year.
But don't miss the forest for the trees. The point being made, which is still valid (including to diceman, a reasonable PSU fan), is that Cael is pulling in oodles of top 10 guys p4p out of HS, and getting many ncaa points year after year from these guys (Taylor, Ruth, Megaludis, McIntosh, Retherford) and the AA tallies from the guys ranked much lower is fairly paltry, Brown excepted.
You're apparently one of those hypersensitive PSU fans who can't stand to have anyone say Cael is starting with blue ribbon, cream of the crop talent out of HS. Simply stating that gets you into a knee jerk attack mode.
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Agree diceman, they are two different topics, and they do get confused by some.
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Gable - $0.00 offer from ISU to stay
Cael - named head coach at ISU, with a good salary, after they fired Douglas
Cael ≠ Gable
I assume you are trolling.
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James, no doubt PSU made Cael a very sweet offer. I think it is sad though, given ISU was his alma mater.
As far as Brands and VT, I've read that Brands made it clear that his dream job was to be head coach at Iowa, and let that be known to VT. Short of that opening up, he may have stayed at VT for a long time. Who knows, but I don't really think it was a money issue with Brands.
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johnstownsteel, don't disagree with what you said. Winning the title is what it's about, and Cael has been doing that. Please don't read into any of my posts that I'm saying he's a "poor coach," but instead pointing out he's a great recruiter (in a great recruiting area), and that is certainly helping him.
My personal belief is that Cael is a good coach and Brands is probably a better coach, but that's just my humble opinion. As you say, winning championships are the goal.
It's not only his alma mater but all three of his brothers wrestled there as well.
Brands, Cael, Smith, and Ryan are all decent human beings--somewhere between axe murderers and Mother Theresa. I don't care about their personal lives beyond that. I care about winning NCAA titles. You win or you don't. Everything else is blah-blah-blah.
Tarp pretty much sums it up for me too. If a coach can teach wrestling but can't land recruits he is better off in public high school coaching. Recruiting is coaching. They are not independent of one another. I would make that the top requirement in any coaching hire. You can hire a young assistant to teach wrestling. Get the recruits. This isn't 1985.
Cael did not string chance along. It was the other way around. I know this cause chance sat in my chair after weigh ins his senior year and told me.
This has worked out for psu. Sometimes the greatest gift is unanswered prayers???
Haines I only know what I read. can't help but feel cael made the correct call at this juncture but the next four years could prove me wrong.
OK, then find one PA resident that is outraged (outraged, mind you!) Penn State's 157 pounder is Nolf and not Chance. Just One.
wasdt tells us to get real yet ignores the facts. Haines is transferring out of tOSU and Marsteller has been suspended at OSU for the year and almost quit all together. How can anyone in PA, Iowa or anywhere else criticize Cael for making the right decision for the program. He has been proven right here, that's the reality. If this was Iowa, wouldn't you guys be glad if Brands avoided a couple more Skon situations and utilized that scholarship money for other guys?
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Just so everybody understands the silliness of the rationale of "he wins only because he is a great recruiter but not necessarily a great coach".
Alabama football has a great football history, but in the 4 years immediately prior to Nick Saban taking the head coaching job the Tide had one winning season and a 4 year record of 26 and 24.
Nick's first season at Alabama the Tide finished 7 and 6. In the 8 yrs since they have a record of 98 and 12 with 4 national titles.
I have always believed the reason Alabama became great at football again is because Nick Saban is such a great GDed college football coach. Applying the attempted logic used in this and other threads where Iowa wrestling fans stumble over their collective synapses to belittle as much as possible the achievements and or abilities of Cael Sanderson one would have to conclude:
Alabama is so good at football only because Nick Saban is a shameless, yet great recruiter who relies on and depends upon the recruited talent to self develop.
Stop it. Iowa wrestling and Iowa wrestling fans are great for wrestling. You show up and support the hell out of not just Iowa wrestling but wrestling period. Sometimes I find you all annoying as hell, but I truly appreciate the fact you are there to support yours and annoy me and mine. The continued and collective whining and attempted rationalized belittling of Cael's accomplishments makes you appear petty and juvenile.
I love the sport of wrestling as much as any of you and I would really rather see the largest fan base of wrestling not appear petty and juvinile, but instead prideful and bold.
Alabama football has a great football history, but in the 4 years immediately prior to Nick Saban taking the head coaching job the Tide had one winning season and a 4 year record of 26 and 24.
Nick's first season at Alabama the Tide finished 7 and 6. In the 8 yrs since they have a record of 98 and 12 with 4 national titles.
I have always believed the reason Alabama became great at football again is because Nick Saban is such a great GDed college football coach. Applying the attempted logic used in this and other threads where Iowa wrestling fans stumble over their collective synapses to belittle as much as possible the achievements and or abilities of Cael Sanderson one would have to conclude:
Alabama is so good at football only because Nick Saban is a shameless, yet great recruiter who relies on and depends upon the recruited talent to self develop.
Stop it. Iowa wrestling and Iowa wrestling fans are great for wrestling. You show up and support the hell out of not just Iowa wrestling but wrestling period. Sometimes I find you all annoying as hell, but I truly appreciate the fact you are there to support yours and annoy me and mine. The continued and collective whining and attempted rationalized belittling of Cael's accomplishments makes you appear petty and juvenile.
I love the sport of wrestling as much as any of you and I would really rather see the largest fan base of wrestling not appear petty and juvinile, but instead prideful and bold.
It's preposterous if someone seriously maintains that Cael is not a good coach. He's obviously a tremendous coach. I think what a few Hawk fans object to is the suggestion that "he's better than . . . ." You like your guy, we like our guy. The history is still being written.
For the last three years, all I've heard from a lot of PSU fans is that Tom Brands can't coach, recruit, bad for the sport, blah blah blah and that Cael has surpassed him in so many ways. My whole point in all of this is to examine why and if it's true. You know the arguments.
On here, we give your guys and Cael a hell of a lot more credit than is shown us so get off your self righteous rant. Pointing out that USC has a built in advantage in football recruiting has been talked about for years. Same thing in Texas or Florida. In college basketball, do you think Kentucky has been great because Calipari is such a great developer of talent?
Finally, comparing Saban and Carl is apples to oranges for so many reasons but Nick Saban had a national championship at LSU and a great run at MSU before ever showing up on campus at Alabama. Plus, there has been much parity in college football. He had to not only worry about SEC teams but the from all over. Cael just has to worry about 3 or 4 teams and coaches. Same with Tom and John Smith.
If your view of "a lot of PSU fans...." is limited to the 6-10 people between BWI, & themat.com that say those type of things you are missing dozens upon dozens that are very complementary about brands, the hawks history and the current hawks. I would also bet half of those people would not act that way in person and you would actually enjoy their company, but on the internet their internet persona gets magnetized because the thought and statement never goes away. Its there every time you open the thread and scroll down to see what is new. So even though its old, it feels new. Plus some of these guys must not work, because the time they devote to their internet craft is interesting. Would be interesting to know if these guys are kids in their basement, guys with long commutes or grey hairs.
The cant recruit comment really permeates from your own people and this site in particular. For instance, Tarp will be along soon with another thread about the disparity in recruiting and Jammen will be around to give it a "like".
The bad for the sport comment, I dont know that one unless you refer to the matside drama that gets attention from the various fan bases not just PSU. Thats a personality thing and you'll find people all over regardless of who they cheer for that are polarized by the mat side drama. Me, my coaching is more brands/gable than Cael. I called my own son for stalling and the ref refused to call it, so I got louder. The ref still refused to call it. Im not sure who was hotter, the ref, my wife or my mother at the end. Im not about participation trophies and I feel kids need to learn to lose almost as much as they need to learn how to win. But thats me, not because Im a PSU alum or a PSU wrestling fan or BWI poster.
the blah blah blah....yeah that happens, its the internet, if people are losing sleep, ruining their day or getting adversely affected by what is said on an anonymous message board they need to look inward not outward in my opinion. These boards are entertainment, if your entertainment is affecting your day you should try another form of entertainment. Too many great things going on in life to get bent out of shape because of silly things on the internet. Dont hate the player hate the game.
I love your posts Chief and Im glad the thread that can not be named got nuked by Tom.
Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Both Brands and Cael are decent individuals and that's that. Nobody is perfect and neither are these two. This pissing contest between fan bases really needs to stop.
"Happiness consists of getting your hair cut every two weeks and watching your neighbor fall off his roof."
--Lin Yutang, The Importance of Living.
For Penn State fans, winning a championship is a good haircut; watching Brands and Iowa implode is pure joy. That's life. The shoe will be on the other foot someday - soon.
--Lin Yutang, The Importance of Living.
For Penn State fans, winning a championship is a good haircut; watching Brands and Iowa implode is pure joy. That's life. The shoe will be on the other foot someday - soon.
Well I don't think Chance would have even attempted to go 157 had he went to penn state so that's kind of a moot point
Hey Chief,
Can Calipari coach? He has been pretty darn successful everywhere he has coached. He can recruit but his successes indicate the man can coach also. If it was simply location anybody could succeed. The Wildcats were not nearly so dominate immediately prior to Calipari's arrival.
USC's built in recruiting advantage hasn't amounted to crap since Pete left for the NFL. It was also somewhat lacking before Pete took the job. It certainly was handy while Pete was there though.
How has Florida faired since Urban left?
Brady Hoke had great recruiting classes, yet the Wolverines could not play football until this year.
The comparison between Cael and Nick for the point I making was sufficiently accurate, sorry you can not see it.
The idea that you simply recruit the best and sit back and watch is not only simple minded, but incorrect. A good coach will make his athletes better. A poor coach not so much.
Penn State has not moved in the past 7 years, yet despite Charlie Spidel's, Bill Koll's, Rich Lorenzo's, John Fritz's and Troy Sunderland's best efforts they could not get done what Cael has accomplished.
Can Calipari coach? He has been pretty darn successful everywhere he has coached. He can recruit but his successes indicate the man can coach also. If it was simply location anybody could succeed. The Wildcats were not nearly so dominate immediately prior to Calipari's arrival.
USC's built in recruiting advantage hasn't amounted to crap since Pete left for the NFL. It was also somewhat lacking before Pete took the job. It certainly was handy while Pete was there though.
How has Florida faired since Urban left?
Brady Hoke had great recruiting classes, yet the Wolverines could not play football until this year.
The comparison between Cael and Nick for the point I making was sufficiently accurate, sorry you can not see it.
The idea that you simply recruit the best and sit back and watch is not only simple minded, but incorrect. A good coach will make his athletes better. A poor coach not so much.
Penn State has not moved in the past 7 years, yet despite Charlie Spidel's, Bill Koll's, Rich Lorenzo's, John Fritz's and Troy Sunderland's best efforts they could not get done what Cael has accomplished.
Actually, for Penn State fans, winning a championship is coming home with a good hair cut and listening to the neighbor with a mullet rant about how much better his barber is than yours.
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I think everybody would agree with you that it takes some good coaching to get the superstuds to perform. It isn't automatic.
The point of a few Hawk fans are trying to get across is that it is easier to do well with 5* talent across the board than with 3* talent.
It is generally easier for Alabama to have a great football season than it is at Iowa. Hard to compare Kirk to Saban. Apples and oranges. Takes different talents to coach up the 3*s to perform well than it takes to make a 5* reach and maintain his potential. Kirk is pretty good at coaching up 3*s, but may miserably underperform with 5*s. Saban is great at making the 5*s happy and performing and gelling as a unit, but may not have the success and be bringing home a ton of wins at a team like Michigan St., for example. Similar argument can be made with Carl and Brands.
By the way, Saban's record was 6-5-1, 6--6, 7-5, 6-6, 9-2 while at Michigan St.
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So maybe thus far in their careers,
Carl = Saban. Good coach with good-very good talent. Better coach (?great coach) with great talent.
Brands = JoePa (in his prime, without the negative stuff at the end). [Trying to keep the PSU guy involved]. Very good-great coach with overall very good talent.
Carl = Saban. Good coach with good-very good talent. Better coach (?great coach) with great talent.
Brands = JoePa (in his prime, without the negative stuff at the end). [Trying to keep the PSU guy involved]. Very good-great coach with overall very good talent.
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How many people have said Cael can't coach on HR? The original argument is that PSU fans seem to think he is revolutionizing wrestling...read your own boards...It's ripe with it. Gee...guys that are talented, aggressive, and have a good gas tank have success...who would have thunk it. I think a main difference is PSU's systemic ability to ride and score points from the top...but then I'm sure Cael taught them that because elite PA guys aren't known for that sort of thing.
If we are being honest PA and Ohio JR high kids are head shoulders way more advanced thatn Iowa kids. Riding and turning is the biggest factor on the list.
This isnt from me, its from a hall of fame Highschool and College coach who coaches the Iowa team at the disney dauls and also runs the younger AAu tourney at wells fargo. They are very advanced. Most of the conversations start off with you should see this travel team from Ohio or the Young guns black team..wow. And that team handled Iowa in the finals with an Iowa team that had like 20 combined state titles in that lineup with Thomsen, Hollaway, on and on.
The finished product Cael gets is supperior and more numbers of it due to population. I think Cael is a good coach and have heard from Eric Thompson that when he stepped into the NLWC room he learned more in 15 min than he ever did at ISU and Grand View combined. Basically he said Cael teaches the guy to work on his own moves and prefect them and the opponent wont matter. Wheras Brands spends more time evaluating opponents tape and Cael doesnt believe in that. Why get good at what the other guy may do when you can make the other guy deal with you. A lot of truth in that conversation. makes me wonder if Sorenson should be less concerned with being Joe Williams and be more like Nolf for a gme plan. Cael is starting with a better canvass but he also paints differnt too guys. I hate to admit but this post is all true.
Are you sure about this?
From my knowledge it was the exact opposite. Iowa would rarely worry about the other guys, other than knowing if they were extremely good in one move/area, and focused on their own offense.
It is more important to Iowa fans too. Iowa did not praise Gable for his graduation rates and GPA.
And here's another difference from what I have seen: There is more variety and ability to chain wrestle. Go from a TD into a move that produces backpoints. Our guys tend to let go of an arm on the way to a TD when they have one trapped whereas a PSU dude uses that arm to try and score more points. We have had good guys on top but it's not consistent. For example, how many times has Sorenson scored back points this year against decent opponents. He has the spiral ride and snapping the opponent back from a sit out.
Let me get this straight. A couple things Penn State does as a group that you contend makes a difference is:
1. Penn State as a team rides tough and wrestles from the top working to score back points.
2. Penn State as a team looks to trap arms and score back points off of take downs.
According to you these two team traits are difference makers, but it isn't reflective of coaching it's all in the recruiting.
A thire and fourth team trait pointed out by you
3. Aggressive wrestling
4. Good gas tank
Still, all in the recruiting.
Ok.
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