Trump betrayed Ukraine.
- Thread starter theVoicefromtheTomb
- Start date
Europe suddenly facing the prospect of carrying their own weight.
Wonder how Ukrainians feel about this smug and insufferable little faguette chirping that no Americans died in their unnecessary war.
Unnecessary war? You serious?
Maga knows a lot about unnecessary wars that cost 6+ trillion against backwater shitholes. Not so much about standing up to actual geopolitical foes.
You might want to mention that to the Russians. You know, the guys that started it.
Was Ukraine just supposed to roll over when Russia showed up?
If they paid the cost to host them entirely, and their salaries, would that be ok, or too mercenary?
US troops out of Europe? About 108 years too late but it's a start.
Again, if true, we just up and abandon Europe - close Ramstein, Lakenheath, Wiesbaden?
We just fought a war with Iraq 20’years ago where the GOP rationalization in part was to surround the Middle East with US military power. Now we just quit?
I’m fine if you want Europe with more skin in the game, but this is about US security.
They walked away from the negotiating table at the behest of the US and the UK.
In retrospect, an act of lunacy and arrogance that gained them nothing but cost them dearly.
Note that all they had to do - again if true - is stop fighting. Rewards Putin.
Reagan is rolling over in in his grave.
Trump spreading America's buttcheeks for Putin and maga applauds.
So we created an Iraq that marries off 9 year olds. Aren’t you proud?
Was that worth the price in blood and treasure?
You gotta consider if maybe, just maybe, we went astray misusing the US military to keep foreign kings on thrones in nations carved by dying European colonial powers.
I think the wars and domestic surveillance and mass migrations of refugees that followed Bush's original sin haven't done anything to advance US security, and have done immeasurable harm to US rights and interests.
I think the '**** the EU' policy of the neocons in MENA and Ukraine hasn't advanced US security, and certainly not Europe's.
But Trump has finally moved the 'Overton window' on Europe's view of defense spending.
Small consolation.
Yes...underage marriage was absolutely why we went into Iraq - and no I'm not defending that, I was always against it.
Also ignoring the several states domestically where underage marriage is legal.
Or that we've supported Ukraine financially and logistically, not with direct intervention.
Aside from that, totally the same thing.
Do we grade on intentions, or outcomes?
They lie about the intentions anyway, so how about we focus on the outcomes?
I have no idea what marrying 9 year olds has to do with it.
And you think I was in favor of invading Iraq?
Just a status update on the neocon efforts to remake the Middle East with bombs and guns.
You’re the one that brought up Iraq.
Which did you oppose? In favor of helping jihadists overthrow Libya? Syria? Aiding and the abetting the Saudi invasion and blockade and failed regime change in Yemen? Somalia? Afghanistan?
What have we accomplished in almost 35 years of waging war in that corner of the world?
Child marriages in Iraq and what else?
More than if we hadn’t?
Supporting regime changes vs. stationing US troops/maintaining military bases in Europe in support of NATO are separate issues imo.
What about when those bases get used for regime change wars in MENA?
Does it count when NATO is used to help jihadists overthrow the Libyan government and create over a decade of death (never mind opening refugee floodgates that in turn fueled the rise of right wing parties in Europe, which are conveniently the reason Europe ‘needs’ tools to suppress online speech…).
They rhetorically defend the institution on the idea of mutual defense, but since the 90s it is most notable for going on the offensive. The partition of Serbia and aiding jihadists overthrow the Libyan government are real events that other countries are going to take into account.
It doesn’t take an enormous amount of imagination to perceive the threat of a NATO ‘duty to protect’ declared in a third Chechen war, especially if there were NATO bases already existing nearby in Ukraine and Georgia. It’s why this last round of NATO expansion was opposed so vociferously, and recognized by people like Merkel and others that it would trigger a war. Not a ‘just war’, but a war with death and destruction all the same.
It’s why the EU was trying to play the long game and bring Ukraine into their orbit economically. EU ascension was even something the Russian agreed to in April ‘22, they just wanted to keep NATO at bay. That’s why the Ukrainians negotiator said it was their primary war aim.
Are you seriously trying to justify Russia invading Ukraine?
It’s an insult that this is being hashed out without Zalensky. And Trump’s statement about Zalensky starting the war was disgusting. If we learned anything from dealing with Adolf Hitler in the build up to WW2, it’s that appeasing dictators doesn’t work. Yet, here we are. And I’m not sure this war ends without doing just that for Russia. Putin needs an out and he’s not going to stop his invasion without one. The entirety of it stinks terribly but what else is going to stop the war? If we overwhelm Russia with force to end it on the battlefield, what does Putin do then?
Will be interesting to see once this is hashed out. If Putin takes the Baltic states within a year or waits a couple years. Have to be next on the list.
Understanding a killer’s motive isn’t ’justifying’ the killer’s actions.
Small minds simply cannot grasp this. If the DA says why the murderer did it, the only conclusion they can reach is that the DA is ‘justifying’ the murder.
Trump and MAGA gvng give Putin everything he wants…..fuk that. Putin and Trump get 4 years. After that the Dems (hopefully) step in and reverse all “deals” made.
I simply don’t understand how or why we’d not let Ukraine continue this war. It ain’t our troops dying and severely weakening one of our largest adversaries makes a lot of sense.
I simply don’t understand how or why we’d not let Ukraine continue this war. It ain’t our troops dying and severely weakening one of our largest adversaries makes a lot of sense.
It matters if you for some reason choose to believe Putin here.
Ukraine membership into NATO was very far from a certain thing prior to this latest invasion, and likely was barely more than a topic of conversation before Putin took crimea.
