Trump out of business in New York
- Thread starter THE_DEVIL
- Start date
You know the trial isn't going well when your lawyers biggest talking points have ZERO to do with the actual trial itself and the evidence/testimony that is being given each day.
Damn...this thread fell to Page 6 on Trump Testifying Day...
www.forbes.com
9:57 a.m.: Donald Trump is in the courtroom, seated at the defense table, between his lawyers Chris Kise and Alina Habba. Judge Arthur Engoron is here, too, sitting at his perch.
10:00 a.m.: “We have a lot of people here and apparently a lot of photographers outside who want to photograph some of you,” the judge says.
10:03 a.m.: “The people call Donald J. Trump.” The former president walks to the stand and puts his right hand in the air. He settles in at his chair on the witness stand. Questioning him: Kevin Wallace of the attorney general’s office.
10:07 a.m.: They are going over the structure of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, through which the former president owns his assets. Trump confirms that he remains the “sole beneficiary” of the trust, confirming that the trust is merely a shell entity. Yes, his sons could act on his behalf, but there was no question who was the ultimate boss—Donald Trump.
10:08 a.m.: When asked why he made his very-much-adult son, Don Jr., a trustee of the trust, the former president responds: “He’s a hardworking boy—young man.”
10:13 a.m.: Trump’s voice is muted and measured, by his standards. He is still criticizing his legal opponents, but he seems to be intentionally striking a softer tone than he does for the cameras.
10:17 a.m.: The former president is offering long-winded answers. The judge seems to be losing patience. “I would like to move things along a little faster,” he says. “Please, just answer the questions—no speeches.”
10:22 a.m.: The attorney general’s office pulls up the document below, which is part of the net-worth statement that the Trump Organization helped assemble. It pins the net-worth documents on Trump himself: “Donald J. Trump is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statement in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America.” It is this sort of documentation that makes it difficult for Trump to distance himself from the hyped-up documents at the center of this case.
Screenshot from one of Donald Trump's net-worth statements.
.
10:30 a.m.: Trump claims that he thought his penthouse was listed with too high of a value on the net-worth statements. “I thought the apartment was overvalued when I looked at it,” he claimed. This is not even remotely credible. Let’s dig into the numbers a bit.
10:42 a.m.: The calculations behind Donald Trump’s net-worth statements show a decrease in the penthouse value in 2017. What caused that drop? A change in square footage. The statements had previously listed Donald Trump’s penthouse at 30,000 square feet. They reduced it to 10,996 square feet. Trump has tried to make it seem like he was responsible for that change. Nonsense. The Trump Organization changed the square-footage figure only after Forbes exposed the fact that the size was overstated, with a story titled “Donald Trump Has Been Lying About The Size Of His Penthouse.”
10:45 a.m.: Donald Trump, when trying to pump up his net worth in conversations with Forbes, had previously touted the number of square feet at 33,000, an even bigger number than the inflated 30,000 square feet listed on his statements. Make no mistake: The inflated square footage of the penthouse his lie, not someone else’s.
10:50 a.m.: Judge Engoron has clearly lost his patience with Trump, as the former president drags out answer after answer. “Mr. Kise,” the judge says to Trump’s lawyer at one point, “can you control your client?”
10:55 a.m.: Trump’s lawyers are telling the judge to basically treat Trump like he gets treated in media appearances—to sit back and listen to what he has to say, then make of it what he’d like. “I’m not here to hear what he has to say,” the judge roars, explaining that he’s here to hear his answers to specific questions. “Sit down, already,” he says to Trump’s legal team at one point.
10:57 a.m.: That prompts Trump to lash out from the witness stand. He speaks in a neutral tone, but his frustration is unmistakable: “This is a very unfair trial—very, very,” the former president says.
11:01 a.m.: Kevin Wallace of the attorney general’s office says he would like to take a brief break and asks Trump’s lawyer, Chris Kise, to please speak with his client.
11:09 a.m.: The sparring that we are seeing between Trump and the judge was entirely predictable. Judge Engoron has been adamant throughout this case that witnesses answer yes-or-no questions with yes-or-no answers. Trump is not accustomed to that sort of format. He is a master of giving rambling, oftentimes interesting, responses to questions. Doing so allows him to avoid being pinned down and to project confidence. He gets away with this in media appearances. All reporters interviewing Trump know they have a limited amount of time, so they might press him a bit, but ultimately, they’ll move on to other questions. That doesn’t work in a courtroom, where witnesses must answer specific questions under oath.
11:14 a.m.: “All rise!” court is back in session. Everyone sits down but Trump, who strolls up to the witness stand.
11:17 a.m.: The state is questioning Trump about Seven Springs, a mansion in New York that was one of the most egregiously inflated assets on his net-worth statements. Even Trump admits it wasn’t worth the $291 million listed on his statements. “I thought it was high,” he says.
11:20 a.m.: Kevin Wallace of the attorney general’s office turns to two office towers, 1290 Avenue of the Americas and 555 California Street, in which Trump owns a 30% interest. Trump continues to give meandering responses when Wallace asks whether he controls the partnership. “Well, in many ways it’s better,” Trump begins, before saying that his minority interest limits his liability exposure. He does not answer the original question until Wallace asks again. This sort of thing is happening over and over.
Inside The Courtroom: Donald Trump Testifies In Fraud Case
A play-by-play account of Monday's proceedings in Donald Trump's fraud trial.
www.forbes.com
9:57 a.m.: Donald Trump is in the courtroom, seated at the defense table, between his lawyers Chris Kise and Alina Habba. Judge Arthur Engoron is here, too, sitting at his perch.
10:00 a.m.: “We have a lot of people here and apparently a lot of photographers outside who want to photograph some of you,” the judge says.
10:03 a.m.: “The people call Donald J. Trump.” The former president walks to the stand and puts his right hand in the air. He settles in at his chair on the witness stand. Questioning him: Kevin Wallace of the attorney general’s office.
10:07 a.m.: They are going over the structure of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, through which the former president owns his assets. Trump confirms that he remains the “sole beneficiary” of the trust, confirming that the trust is merely a shell entity. Yes, his sons could act on his behalf, but there was no question who was the ultimate boss—Donald Trump.
10:08 a.m.: When asked why he made his very-much-adult son, Don Jr., a trustee of the trust, the former president responds: “He’s a hardworking boy—young man.”
10:13 a.m.: Trump’s voice is muted and measured, by his standards. He is still criticizing his legal opponents, but he seems to be intentionally striking a softer tone than he does for the cameras.
10:17 a.m.: The former president is offering long-winded answers. The judge seems to be losing patience. “I would like to move things along a little faster,” he says. “Please, just answer the questions—no speeches.”
10:22 a.m.: The attorney general’s office pulls up the document below, which is part of the net-worth statement that the Trump Organization helped assemble. It pins the net-worth documents on Trump himself: “Donald J. Trump is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of the financial statement in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America.” It is this sort of documentation that makes it difficult for Trump to distance himself from the hyped-up documents at the center of this case.
Screenshot from one of Donald Trump's net-worth statements.
.
10:30 a.m.: Trump claims that he thought his penthouse was listed with too high of a value on the net-worth statements. “I thought the apartment was overvalued when I looked at it,” he claimed. This is not even remotely credible. Let’s dig into the numbers a bit.
10:42 a.m.: The calculations behind Donald Trump’s net-worth statements show a decrease in the penthouse value in 2017. What caused that drop? A change in square footage. The statements had previously listed Donald Trump’s penthouse at 30,000 square feet. They reduced it to 10,996 square feet. Trump has tried to make it seem like he was responsible for that change. Nonsense. The Trump Organization changed the square-footage figure only after Forbes exposed the fact that the size was overstated, with a story titled “Donald Trump Has Been Lying About The Size Of His Penthouse.”
10:45 a.m.: Donald Trump, when trying to pump up his net worth in conversations with Forbes, had previously touted the number of square feet at 33,000, an even bigger number than the inflated 30,000 square feet listed on his statements. Make no mistake: The inflated square footage of the penthouse his lie, not someone else’s.
10:50 a.m.: Judge Engoron has clearly lost his patience with Trump, as the former president drags out answer after answer. “Mr. Kise,” the judge says to Trump’s lawyer at one point, “can you control your client?”
10:55 a.m.: Trump’s lawyers are telling the judge to basically treat Trump like he gets treated in media appearances—to sit back and listen to what he has to say, then make of it what he’d like. “I’m not here to hear what he has to say,” the judge roars, explaining that he’s here to hear his answers to specific questions. “Sit down, already,” he says to Trump’s legal team at one point.
10:57 a.m.: That prompts Trump to lash out from the witness stand. He speaks in a neutral tone, but his frustration is unmistakable: “This is a very unfair trial—very, very,” the former president says.
11:01 a.m.: Kevin Wallace of the attorney general’s office says he would like to take a brief break and asks Trump’s lawyer, Chris Kise, to please speak with his client.
11:09 a.m.: The sparring that we are seeing between Trump and the judge was entirely predictable. Judge Engoron has been adamant throughout this case that witnesses answer yes-or-no questions with yes-or-no answers. Trump is not accustomed to that sort of format. He is a master of giving rambling, oftentimes interesting, responses to questions. Doing so allows him to avoid being pinned down and to project confidence. He gets away with this in media appearances. All reporters interviewing Trump know they have a limited amount of time, so they might press him a bit, but ultimately, they’ll move on to other questions. That doesn’t work in a courtroom, where witnesses must answer specific questions under oath.
11:14 a.m.: “All rise!” court is back in session. Everyone sits down but Trump, who strolls up to the witness stand.
11:17 a.m.: The state is questioning Trump about Seven Springs, a mansion in New York that was one of the most egregiously inflated assets on his net-worth statements. Even Trump admits it wasn’t worth the $291 million listed on his statements. “I thought it was high,” he says.
11:20 a.m.: Kevin Wallace of the attorney general’s office turns to two office towers, 1290 Avenue of the Americas and 555 California Street, in which Trump owns a 30% interest. Trump continues to give meandering responses when Wallace asks whether he controls the partnership. “Well, in many ways it’s better,” Trump begins, before saying that his minority interest limits his liability exposure. He does not answer the original question until Wallace asks again. This sort of thing is happening over and over.
Another thread following the proceedings:
Twitter mirror where you can follow the whole thread:
Twitter mirror where you can follow the whole thread:
12:09 p.m.: The audience watching the proceedings on screens in the spillover room is actively laughing at Trump as he testifies, especially when he starts railing against the attorney general’s office and the presiding judge. In one case, Trump seems to go after the attorney general personally, saying he is under attack because of politics. “In her case, definitely for political reasons,” Trump says.
12:13 p.m.: Trump lashes out. The attorney general’s office asks if he agrees that the values in the net-worth statement were overstated. “I think she’s a political hack,” he says, referring to the attorney general. “I think she used this case to try to become governor.” He sounds like he’s tweeting. “This is the opposite of fraud,” Trump declares. “The fraud is her.”
Getting some "Nathan Thurm" vibes here....
"It's not me.....it's him!"
"I'm not being defensive....You're being defensive!"
12:13 p.m.: Trump lashes out. The attorney general’s office asks if he agrees that the values in the net-worth statement were overstated. “I think she’s a political hack,” he says, referring to the attorney general. “I think she used this case to try to become governor.” He sounds like he’s tweeting. “This is the opposite of fraud,” Trump declares. “The fraud is her.”
Getting some "Nathan Thurm" vibes here....
"It's not me.....it's him!"
"I'm not being defensive....You're being defensive!"
Even Trumps suck-up lawyers have to be facepalming over this behavior.
His defense lawyers for the criminal trials have to be reconsidering their life choices about now, especially if he has to take the stand in his own defense.
You righties better starting sending money to his "campaign" to cover the cost of these legal fees because it seems like Trumps mouth is going to maybe open up doors for further litigation or fines.
His defense lawyers for the criminal trials have to be reconsidering their life choices about now, especially if he has to take the stand in his own defense.
You righties better starting sending money to his "campaign" to cover the cost of these legal fees because it seems like Trumps mouth is going to maybe open up doors for further litigation or fines.
Wonder how many times a day Trump co-counsels make "Habba Habba!" jokes....
Donald always fumes about what he refers to as the "Lucky sperm club". People who aren't talented but are born rich enough to be relevant. People like him and his kids. Born rounding 3rd base, but will swear to you they hit a homer in life. Pure hard work and effort.
There was reporting that he only joined Trump's team after receiving a $5 million retainer.
For a guy who was a former federal prosecutor, that the commentators on Lib TV said was a respectable lawyer, he sold his soul pretty cheap.
Everything Trump touches dies.
Say that in the courtroom. Be a big girl.
Edit: Notice the cross Habba is wearing. Typical Trump prop for the rubes. She's being crucified because she is standing up for Orange Jesus. They will come after you, next!!
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Always the victim. It's a remarkable twist, all of this MAGA/Conservative bullshit.
Trump's whole claim to fame is he's a super good businessman. He's being proven to be a fraud, yet the Goldy, Ryan, Biggie, Doff, Coff types... They all continue to believe he's a genius at business guy stuff.
I cannot wait for Trump to unload when he walks out of the courtroom. He's controlling himself inside because he knows for once there are ramifications for what he says, and it's destroying him inside that he is not in control of this situation.
I cannot wait for Trump to unload when he walks out of the courtroom. He's controlling himself inside because he knows for once there are ramifications for what he says, and it's destroying him inside that he is not in control of this situation.
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Trump Ties, Trump Meats, Trump Airlines, Trump University, multiple Trump casinos, would all beg to different on the 'great' businessman label. He's actually quite the loser at it. Daddy's money can only go so far.
1. They are 50 years old, not kids.
2. Little Don walked out on his wife and kids.
3. Look up the word "fiduciary", Alina.
Huh? Did I read that wrong or out of context, or is she just a total idiot?
As a CPA and a retired Partner in a CPA firm, and I can assure you the the Independent Accountants Compilations Report is not a "disclaimer".
You don't get to simply assemble a bunch of numbers together and the issue a report. The owner and the accountant are still responsible for the statements and aren't allowed to simply ignore errors.
If you are having trouble sleeping, here are the requirements from the American Institute of CPA's
The words "Management is responsible" is every where in that document.
You don't get to simply assemble a bunch of numbers together and the issue a report. The owner and the accountant are still responsible for the statements and aren't allowed to simply ignore errors.
If you are having trouble sleeping, here are the requirements from the American Institute of CPA's
The words "Management is responsible" is every where in that document.
@hawkedoff
No offense, Hawk, but you probably aren't used to big time business deals and high level finance like Donald Trump. Mar A Lago was conservatively worth 50-100 times what they said it's worth. Except when he's paying taxes. Then it's a single wide on a dead end dirt road.
Although I do take some enjoyment out of this, Trump will tie this up for years, and most likely be dead before real penalties are enforced. Sure, he loses control, sure he's losing money and no reputable banks will loan him money, but he's got his rubes.
Those are the most honest words ever out of his mouth.
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Unless of course something worked out right. Whether he had a hand in it or not. Then he'll take responsibility for the good stuff. Cuz he is after all one of the most brilliant people on earth... Just ask him.
After following this “trial” it seems there has never been a case like this that’s seen the inside of a courtroom in New York and there were no victims in the alleged over inflating of his properties.
An elected Attorney General who ran on getting Trump, and a Democrat judge that was elected hearing the case.
Federal DAs passed on this saying there was no there there.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want trump anywhere near the Oval Office again, but this particular case seems to be 100% politically motivated.
sorry the Supreme Court tells us that corporations are people. The people didn’t get the money they should have because of fraud.
So, defrauding the bank and its stockholders out of hundreds of millions of dollars in interest should just be ignored?
Why would you make such an asinine statement?
Of course there were victims, bilked out of >$100M dollars.
Or... He broke the law. Time for accountability to come home to roost.
