Not to bite my owner? Seriously a domestic dog has no business out in the wild by itself. It's almost bound to suffer in ways you don't want for your pet.
Well, hell. Now what? (Dog bit me) - 2nd Update: #353
- Thread starter alaskanseminole
- Start date
It's like in the move A Serious Man when they send that pedo brother across the lake into Canada because they know what's coming for him in America. Shitty solution but at least they gave him a chance.
That guy should have been put to sleep too.It's like in the move A Serious Man when they send that pedo brother across the lake into Canada because they know what's coming for him in America. Shitty solution but at least they gave him a chance.
If trolling is wrong, he don’t wanna be right.
That sucks AN.
Spend a little time tyring to place him if your dog sitter won't take him. Someone will.
Spend a little time tyring to place him if your dog sitter won't take him. Someone will.
Huh. Are you new here?
Be careful there if she doesn’t have the ability to deal with a biter. You could check with the vet/trainer about rehoming him with someone who would have the skills for a dog like Joey. I can just about guarantee they wouldn’t recommend putting him with someone who lacks those skills. Not knowing the stressor just sucks. Could there be any commonality between the two events where he bit?
We've actually thought it through and it wouldn't be a good idea because she lives one street over, so the entire neighborhood would know he's our Joey and now all the sudden he lives with someone else. Her dog walker would probably not want to walk Mosely and now Joey with the new info and it would create issue with her finding people to watch both dogs.
Joey would need a fresh start outside of our community. He's just too well known.
I don’t disagree. I bet shelters have dogs who might have bitten someone at one point.
Most are probably some mix of pit bulls.
Full disclosure is needed if that’s what OP decides.
Remember…Cesar Millan insists “there are no bad dogs, only bad owners”.
Well Cesar is wrong. Dogs (particularly their brains) are a whole lot more like people than folks realize. There actually are bad dogs, just like there are bad people and no amount of "training" can fix them.
I like you a lot but I could tell you off the record a few things you have likely done with this dog from the get go. But I won’t. 😕
Grabbing/holding his paws was something Alaska mentioned in both incidents. None of my dogs have ever loved that. But that doesn’t explain the underlying stress.
That’s right. If the burr was painful, he might have associated that pain with holding his paw to remove it. Grabbing his paw again triggered him. It would be worth investigating with the trainer. Got nothing to lose.
Here's our discussion with the veterinarian/trainer that is tied to the training company we used.
Positive Considerations:
- Wrestling with Joey is a non-factor in this. Overall, he has been very well trained.
- She asked if he's had injuries. Sometimes that can be the culprit to the reaction. We said no.
- "IF" we didn't have a child in the home additional training could definitely be a viable approach. She (the vet/trainer) has seen a lot of success and rehabilitated dogs. However, see below:
Negative Considerations:
- Vet said this almost certainly wasn't a resource guarding issue (which stinks because we can train him out of that).
- Since we don't know what was stressing him out, it makes this very difficult to retrain. What behavior are we trying to fix? We don't know.
- Turns out, this was the 2nd time (I was unaware of the first) that he lunged out. Joey did it to my wife last fall when I was out of town when she tried to get a sticker-burr out of his paw. (Level 2--no skin break, she had forgotten).
- Mine was a Level 4/5 bite. Vet does not recommend rehoming for anything above a 3. Now we know, without question, what Joey is capable of.
- Vet agrees with our primary concern being our son and his friends' safety (hence why no additional training works for us). We can't live with ourselves if something ever happened.
Results:
So, it turns out the breeder is unable to take Joey after all. Her husband said no. Therefore, I will be euthanizing Joey later this week. I will be going at this one alone and I'm not looking forward to having to do this a SECOND time in under a year. Putting down my Jack about broke me. This one will break my son's heart. Just watching my wife hang up the call, hold Joey and bawl was enough.
Hasn't even been 12 months:
To put my pooch "down" or not. :(
My Shih Tzu is 12 years & 8 months old and has Cushing's Disease since he was 7. He's on meds for that plus two for a subsequent bad heart. He's been overweight since being diagnosed (23lbs vs 15 for his breed). He's also on an eye drop regimen. For the last 3 months his quality of life...iowa.forums.rivals.com
Really sorry to hear, Wishing the best for you and your family. Losing loved ones sucks.
Heck, it could still be in his paw
This is so sad for your family. Joey reminds me of my dog so I keep putting myself in your shoes and it's heartbreaking. My thoughts are with all of you. One question though I assume Joey gets groomed every couple of months, has the groomer ever mentioned Joey having problems with his paws being groomed and nails cut?Here's our discussion with the veterinarian/trainer that is tied to the training company we used.
Positive Considerations:
- Wrestling with Joey is a non-factor in this. Overall, he has been very well trained.
- She asked if he's had injuries. Sometimes that can be the culprit to the reaction. We said no.
- "IF" we didn't have a child in the home additional training could definitely be a viable approach. She (the vet/trainer) has seen a lot of success and rehabilitated dogs. However, see below:
Negative Considerations:
- Vet said this almost certainly wasn't a resource guarding issue (which stinks because we can train him out of that).
- Since we don't know what was stressing him out, it makes this very difficult to retrain. What behavior are we trying to fix? We don't know.
- Turns out, this was the 2nd time (I was unaware of the first) that he lunged out. Joey did it to my wife last fall when I was out of town when she tried to get a sticker-burr out of his paw. (Level 2--no skin break, she had forgotten).
- Mine was a Level 4/5 bite. Vet does not recommend rehoming for anything above a 3. Now we know, without question, what Joey is capable of.
- Vet agrees with our primary concern being our son and his friends' safety (hence why no additional training works for us). We can't live with ourselves if something ever happened.
Results:
So, it turns out the breeder is unable to take Joey after all. Her husband said no. Therefore, I will be euthanizing Joey later this week. I will be going at this one alone and I'm not looking forward to having to do this a SECOND time in under a year. Putting down my Jack about broke me. This one will break my son's heart. Just watching my wife hang up the call, hold Joey and bawl was enough.
Hasn't even been 12 months:
To put my pooch "down" or not. :(
My Shih Tzu is 12 years & 8 months old and has Cushing's Disease since he was 7. He's on meds for that plus two for a subsequent bad heart. He's been overweight since being diagnosed (23lbs vs 15 for his breed). He's also on an eye drop regimen. For the last 3 months his quality of life...
I don’t exactly agree. I believe there are breeds with certain characteristics that can easily morph into a negative outcome when not handled correctly from the time they are puppies.
The emergence of “designer” mixes has complicated the development of these dogs.
Golden Retrievers (I’ve had two) are probably the most commonly recognized breed for companionship, intelligence and a strong desire to please their human. They have a high energy level, but are adaptable and highly desirable in a family setting. Extremely rare that they even growl, much less bite.
Standard poodles are also very intelligent and energetic. Their temperament can be a little more complicated. They can be headstrong and “opinionated” if such a term can be applied to a dog. After all they’re smarter than you - just ask em.
I currently have a rescue dog who is a miniature “schnoodle”, which is a mix of schnauzer and poodle. Smart, very friendly and fun, but he’s bossy at times. He growled at the vet who laughed and said his schnauzer side dominates.
(he didn’t snap or bite BTW)
My son and his wife have a Golden, a Lab and two kids. He grew up with two Goldens, a Lab, and a Shih Tzu.
He never wrestled with any of them.
You roughhouse with any breed of dog and they get the idea that nothing is out of bounds. Throw a ball, play tug of war. Anything beyond that is out of bounds.
OP, honest mistake on your part.
I understand your decision but it makes me sad.
This makes me sad but you are doing the right thing. Doodles can be crazy. As an aside, you have nice looking furniture.Here's our discussion with the veterinarian/trainer that is tied to the training company we used.
Positive Considerations:
- Wrestling with Joey is a non-factor in this. Overall, he has been very well trained.
- She asked if he's had injuries. Sometimes that can be the culprit to the reaction. We said no.
- "IF" we didn't have a child in the home additional training could definitely be a viable approach. She (the vet/trainer) has seen a lot of success and rehabilitated dogs. However, see below:
Negative Considerations:
- Vet said this almost certainly wasn't a resource guarding issue (which stinks because we can train him out of that).
- Since we don't know what was stressing him out, it makes this very difficult to retrain. What behavior are we trying to fix? We don't know.
- Turns out, this was the 2nd time (I was unaware of the first) that he lunged out. Joey did it to my wife last fall when I was out of town when she tried to get a sticker-burr out of his paw. (Level 2--no skin break, she had forgotten).
- Mine was a Level 4/5 bite. Vet does not recommend rehoming for anything above a 3. Now we know, without question, what Joey is capable of.
- Vet agrees with our primary concern being our son and his friends' safety (hence why no additional training works for us). We can't live with ourselves if something ever happened.
Results:
So, it turns out the breeder is unable to take Joey after all. Her husband said no. Therefore, I will be euthanizing Joey later this week. I will be going at this one alone and I'm not looking forward to having to do this a SECOND time in under a year. Putting down my Jack about broke me. This one will break my son's heart. Just watching my wife hang up the call, hold Joey and bawl was enough.
Hasn't even been 12 months:
To put my pooch "down" or not. :(
My Shih Tzu is 12 years & 8 months old and has Cushing's Disease since he was 7. He's on meds for that plus two for a subsequent bad heart. He's been overweight since being diagnosed (23lbs vs 15 for his breed). He's also on an eye drop regimen. For the last 3 months his quality of life...
Have you contacted any rescues - maybe even specific doodle rescues? I have a hard time believing there isn’t someone out there that wouldn’t take your pup - especially if you’re willing to essentially act as the foster for a bit while they find someone.
Like I said, I would have no problem taking this pup in if I was looking. 2 year old, well trained, have the right house for it (basically no kids), comfortable with “dogs with issue” and what it takes, etc…I’ve had rescues and this would be cake in comparison.
I have a mini golden doodle, she’s awesome.**** the guy that came up with mixing any breed with a poodle. The only thing worse than a #poodle is a pit bull, and they aren't that much different. You have a dog that is unpredictable, that's on you. Personally, I'd put that piece of shit down. Nasty POS's.
So sorry Alaska. Everyone wants to talk about your thoughts and decision, but it's clear this will impact your entire family including the Son you want to protect. Never easy and you researched all options, good for you.
Results:
So, it turns out the breeder is unable to take Joey after all. Her husband said no. Therefore, I will be euthanizing Joey later this week. I will be going at this one alone and I'm not looking forward to having to do this a SECOND time in under a year. Putting down my Jack about broke me. This one will break my son's heart. Just watching my wife hang up the call, hold Joey and bawl was enough.
Hasn't even been 12 months:
To put my pooch "down" or not. :(
My Shih Tzu is 12 years & 8 months old and has Cushing's Disease since he was 7. He's on meds for that plus two for a subsequent bad heart. He's been overweight since being diagnosed (23lbs vs 15 for his breed). He's also on an eye drop regimen. For the last 3 months his quality of life...
Sorry, you and the family are having to deal with this situation, it has to be rough.
The best/ only option for you is to remove the dog from your home ( and neighborhood)
That said, have you thought about a no-kill shelter that will take in the dog? Some will classify as not adoptable and they live out their days with some other dogs. Might cost some money to transport him to a refuge that has outdoor runs and open spaces but it is an easier emotional decision than than putting him down.
This rescue in San Antonio ( I think this is where you have said you live) will treat and then they can decide if the dog can be rehomed or gets to live at the refuge.
Didnt read the entire thread so sorry if a repeat recommendation on finding a no-kill refuge.
Yes, he needs the Bitness Protection Program.
Admittedly I’m not a dog lover, nor hater either, and I haven’t read the thread, but having known now four people being seriously hurt by first time offenders, the dog needs to be put down. One of those people are dead, one very well could have been, the other two with facial scars that will never go away.
*sorry for all of the commas
Good luck OP.
Jesus Christ. I work with some f’ed up people and dogs via shelters / rescues and don’t have this many stories. Where the phuck do you live?!
Dogs aren't immune to neurological and personality disorders.
Iowa. None were by pits, rots, and the usual suspects. Like I said, I don’t hate dogs, but I am very leery of them.
Per my Shih Tzu, trainer, and our vet that isn't true. I wrestled with my Jack for about a decade (until his Cushings got bad). He was famous for getting all "riled up" and all I had to do was give a very specific voice and hand command combo and he would instantly lie down. Sometimes he'd do it with a grunt or sigh as if to say, "Ugh. I wasn't done, but fine, dad."
Whatever is going on with Joey is related to some sort of anxiety/stress in certain situations we're not understanding. If we didn't have an 11-Yo in the house, we'd bring in a trainer and see if we could ascertain what it is. However, it's just not worth the risk.
Also, when I say wrestle, it's more of just an aggressive play. We're not talking body slamming and coming off the top turn-buckle. Jack was 15lbs and Joey is only 30lbs. I'm not trying to kill my dogs.
Our vet once told us he has dogs on Prozac, so you're not wrong, Moral.
It's interesting to observe the two Doodles in our house right now. Mosley is a big dumb idiot. No clue about personal space. Never growls and is great with people. However, there are certain dogs in the neighborhood he viciously goes after. We have to keep a tight leash on him. Joey, though, never goes after any dog. Ever. When he's outside he takes on the personality of the big dumb "Rufus Doofas" (as we call him). He gallops around like a doof and loves every dog he comes in contact with.
I have 2 and I can’t imagine getting another breed.
No, I haven't. I just "assumed" no one would take him.
Thanks for the recommendations. Our breeder has reached back out and is looking and I will look at the link you provided.
Alaska, is there any chance that burr or whatever is still stuck in his paw? And he was being ultra-protective if anyone touching it?
Hurts and will scar, but I'll live. I could and likely should have just walked away. I wanted to see if I could get him calm on my terms, so like Bel said, much of this is on me. I needed to know, though, how he'd react in case my impulsive son did the same, though. Now I know.
No, it's not. The incidents are 6+ months apart. He's been to the groomers several times since. Here's the weird thing, sometimes he doesn't want his feet touched, other times he doesn't care. For example, we wipe his feet when he comes in from the back yard if it's wet outside.
He voluntarily stops, I grab the towel by the door and he lifts up his front paw. As soon as I'm done, he lifts the next one and around we go until all four are wiped. Then I say, "push", he shuts the door, gets his treat and we go on about the morning. The paw thing is not predictable, which makes it worse.
Gotcha. Just trying to exhaust all possible reasons
Same. He's an amazing dog that deserves a chance somewhere. I jokingly told the wife our son could go live with Grandma. ...ya, that went just how you'd think. (Mrs. Alaska isn't in much of a joking mood today)
We could never touch our last dog's feet. She absolutely hated it. We had to have her nails cut under sedation.
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