Welp….

[GlenHawk]

I appreciate the civil stance. My saying I believe Brands is still the guy, is not accepting "defeatism". I simply still think Brands is the best guy for now, because I just don't see anyone out there that I believe is better. As I said to vhs, show me someone that is proven to the point it can easily be argued they would significantly outperform Brands and I am NOT against the change.

So far, I just don't see DT as that guy and am not a fan of "wild card" hires. With Smith retiring and how far OkState had fallen, taking that risk makes plenty of sense. But, that is a way different situation. I just don't think Iowa is anywhere near that point and Brands is still every bit vested into coaching Iowa and making them win. If that weren't the case and his effort ever showed to be less than 100%, that would quickly change my stance...

The man has completely ignored glaring flaws in his system for the better part of a decade, even when the top athletes in the sport were publically calling it out. If he is as vested in winning as you claim he is, he's not doing a very good job.

Personally, I don't think Tom or Terry have a clue how to fix the current situation. This is evident from their belief that the new building alone will attract top recruits. This is why I am adamant that the Iowa boosters and AD department need to recognize this fact and move on sooner rather than later.

 

[lookleft goright]

Iowa wrestling has built a strong identity over the years, characterized by passionate fan engagement and a unique culture. However, some behaviors from our staff associated with this culture, such as jumping around in the corner of the mat, taking off their shoes, and constantly berating officials, may not resonate with everyone. I think it's important that we recognize that these actions can have consequences. When the team isn't achieving success, the coaching style, embodied by figures like Tom and Terry, starts to lose its effectiveness. Despite their coaching abilities, the team has only produced two individual champions since 2014, with one being completely gift-wrapped for them.

With this in mind, a wrestler like Nolf would be crazy to leave his current situation for what Iowa City currently offers. This sentiment reflects the widespread desire for rapid change within the Iowa building. Successful organizations will anticipate and address issues promptly. However, Iowa wrestling has decided that rather than adapting, we are just going to put our heads down and move full steam ahead on a proven failed strategy. It's very common within family-run businesses for the second or third generation to struggle to move beyond the shadow of past success and hinder further progress

It is not that the strategy is failed, but more that they cannot sell the strategy to the elite kids. A guy can be the best window installer in the world, but if no one sells his services - he goes broke.

TnT are relying on word of mouth as a business model and it worked for Gable and even them for a while. Times have changed and they may need to also - if they want to win NC as a team and have NC individuals.. If they are happy being positive role models and helping kids grow (which is very noble) they can keep on keeping on.

 

[vhsalum]

Most of this comes down to me simply NOT being a fan of "change, just for the sake of change". I have hired and fired way more people than I ever thought possible over the years. There are very few times where I was ever truly happy, either way. Mind you, those hires and fires were never remotely as significant as what this would be.

To me, Brands has done a LOT of good for Iowa. To fire him, I want to KNOW, with as much certainty as any new hire could realistically give, that the decision will net significantly positive results LONG TERM. Again, so far I just don't see that hire being out there. DT may eventually prove to be that guy, but I am nowhere close to convinced at this point. On top of that, even if he does prove to be "that guy" I could see his immediately leaving if the PSU job suddenly opened up, or maybe even tOSU, and that could truly devastate the program...

I do get what you're saying to a certain degree. But that also doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Yes. TNT have been the 2nd best. But we're also the second best and falling back. And like you said, there have been insiders on this board telling us that Brands isn't changing anything regarding what it takes to get back on top (i.e. actually CHASING recruits and scrambling/getting better at wrestling)

and he ain't leaving okiest ever. They now have more money than PSU.

 

[lookleft goright]

They don't have the best system if they did they would be getting a lot more individual champions than they have gotten.

That could very well be true. It is also possible that their system is fine, but the elite kids are not believing it or not hearing about it or not being convinced that it is the best system.

It wasn't that long ago (just a few years) that Iowa had the momentum and was winning Team Titles.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

WIth everything I said, I still will freely admit I wanted to see them go after Nolf HARD. Putting him on staff could go a long ways towards addressing where Iowa has been weakest recently. I DO think shaking up the support staff needs to be done, unless they have come up with a new way to address finishing/scrambling and are going to implement it going forward....even then, I still would really like Nolf on staff.

If the head coach won't make the necessary changes to their support staff then what needs to be done? Who's responsibility is that? (Tom's) What should be the consequences for a head coach not fulfilling their responsibilities?

 

[Mat Burn]

If the head coach won't make the necessary changes to their support staff then what needs to be done? Who's responsibility is that? (Tom's) What should be the consequences for a head coach not fulfilling their responsibilities?

It is the responsibility of the AD to tell a head coach to either change his staff or find other employment. I don't know if the AD at Iowa is at that point yet.

 

[OILCHECKER]

I was at the US open last week. I did not see either brands or any other Iowa coaches (not saying no one was there). Saw plenty of other college coaches coaching, watching or chatting it up with wrestlers/parents/club coaches.

 

[Fan In Black]

I have said this before but Iowa wrestling has to be the most boring / disappointing "blue blood" program to follow in recruiting.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

This is the core of this whole circular argument on here. Iowa has maintained itself as the 2nd best program fairly consistently while PSU has pulled away from everyone. Furthermore, PSU has pulled away through a combination of superior recruiting and revolutionizing training and preparation, while Iowa's coach pooh-poohs recruiting and is stuck in the old way of training and preparation, while still maintaining a solid track record against everyone but PSU. Iowa is now at a crossroads where you can play it safe with the old school guy who has been successful but doesn't appear to be willing/able to adapt to the new ways of doing things or you can be bold and change course completely and tear it down and turn it over to an outsider with little to no experience or track record but who is well versed in the new ways, which may result in closing the gap to Penn State, but also could result in falling further behind everyone else if he is not up to the task himself (i.e. is Penn State's success because of Cael or Cael's system or is it replicable by someone else or isn't it?).

What do you want? Do you want status quo and just accept that Cael is a GOAT legend and no one is capable of catching him? Or do you want to risk your second place status in a chase of Cael that may end up being futile no matter what? It seems like Iowa is choosing status quo and ceding the future to Cael whereas Ok St is taking a big risk to try to close the gap. We'll see who is right as time goes by, but in the meantime, watching you guys argue in circles about it is pretty funny.

I agree with everything except this being a big risk for OKST.

I think this is a low risk high reward situation for them. Taylor will bring instant success that will only breed future success.

Taylor will surround himself with capable assistants to help ease the growing pains.

The only risk was pissing off a few die hard fans of Scott, but everyone knows Taylor has the name recognition and philosophy and that's arguably the most important thing right now to recruits.

The only risk is him doing something stupid or illegal to make this fail, otherwise high level recruits are going to flock to Stillwater.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Lol, find me someone that is proven enough that he can almost certainly make Iowa significantly better and I have no issue with your stance. I do not nearly think of Brands in the negative light that you do, but I also understand that Iowa demands success at the highest levels possible. If there is someone out there that can and would clearly do better, I am not against the change. I just don't see ANYONE out there that can remotely begin to guarantee such.....

This is such a brain dead conservative take. Risks are often required to be successful at the highest level. You're essentially stating that you're adverse to all risk. You want a "guarantee that someone out there can do better than Brands". Literally the only option then would be Cael. Completely absurd reasoning.

 

[GlenHawk]

It is not that the strategy is failed, but more that they cannot sell the strategy to the elite kids. A guy can be the best window installer in the world, but if no one sells his services - he goes broke.

TnT are relying on word of mouth as a business model and it worked for Gable and even them for a while. Times have changed and they may need to also - if they want to win NC as a team and have NC individuals.. If they are happy being positive role models and helping kids grow (which is very noble) they can keep on keeping on.

While I fully respect Tom and Terry Brands as men and would never question their character, when it comes to their coaching approach with the Iowa program, if their main goal is to serve as positive role models and foster personal growth over winning, there might be other wrestling programs out there more in line with that philosophy.

Also, the addition of the Ferrari clan throws a wrench in this theory lol. Just further evidence that they don’t have a clue how to fix it.

 

[GableBeer]

As long as Brands continues to sell tickets I don’t see Goetz making a change. You want her to make a change, stop buying tickets, stop attending meets, stop donating until they earn your money in your eyes.

 

[kjb32812]

As an outsider looking in, I will say this to provide perspective.

Nothing about Iowa Wrestling scares me. Spencer Lee was a generational talent. Other than that? I see the same complaints about your program year after year and it doesn't show up when it matters.

DT to OsU at least makes me take notice because he's young, extremely visible, has a stud training facility and has a lot of energy to invest.

Iowa just stayed neutral and they're not catching PSU with what they have. OsU just got a lot better, especially on the trail.

Just my opinion.

 

[Fan In Black]

I don't understand what risk OSU is taking. They needed a coach and have not won a title since 2006.

DT is the hottest name on the market. Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[pablow]

. . . Brands is still every bit vested into coaching Iowa and making them win. If that weren't the case and his effort ever showed to be less than 100%, that would quickly change my stance...

They may be giving 100%, but 40% of that 100% is spent stubbornly clinging to the good old days.

 

[HikeNatParks]

I appreciate the civil stance. My saying I believe Brands is still the guy, is not accepting "defeatism". I simply still think Brands is the best guy for now, because I just don't see anyone out there that I believe is better. As I said to vhs, show me someone that is proven to the point it can easily be argued they would significantly outperform Brands and I am NOT against the change.

So far, I just don't see DT as that guy and am not a fan of "wild card" hires. With Smith retiring and how far OkState had fallen, taking that risk makes plenty of sense. But, that is a way different situation. I just don't think Iowa is anywhere near that point and Brands is still every bit vested into coaching Iowa and making them win. If that weren't the case and his effort ever showed to be less than 100%, that would quickly change my stance...

I’ll repeat my #186. Brands recent success (Spencer era) had NOTHING to do with being “still vested in coaching,” and everything to do with recruitment. To not see DT as an absolute godsend to recruitment and portal pull, or to not recognize that just-add-water studs are THE primary weapon against PSU is to be lost. I agree that OSU was certainly better positioned to lure him, but don’t agree that they’re only getting a wild card. They’re getting an ace, and, short of firing a legend, one Iowa had no real chance at.

 

[GlenHawk]

As an outsider looking in, I will say this to provide perspective.

Nothing about Iowa Wrestling scares me. Spencer Lee was a generational talent. Other than that? I see the same complaints about your program year after year and it doesn't show up when it matters.

DT to OsU at least makes me take notice because he's young, extremely visible, has a stud training facility and has a lot of energy to invest.

Iowa just stayed neutral and they're not catching PSU with what they have. OsU just got a lot better, especially on the trail.

Just my opinion.

I think 80% of the Iowa fans on this board would agree with you. The problem is the ones who can actually bring change haven't figured it out yet. I'm not sure how many more years they need to see Iowa fall on its face in March before they wake up.

 

[MSU158]

This is such a brain dead conservative take. Risks are often required to be successful at the highest level. You're essentially stating that you're adverse to all risk. You want a "guarantee that someone out there can do better than Brands". Literally the only option then would be Cael. Completely absurd reasoning.

You are something else. You call my take brain dead when you see any slightly dissenting argument with such blinders that you only see it as 100% opposite of you. Nothing I said in ANY WAY said I am adverse to risk. But, that doesn't mean you ignore what you have and any possible negatives that result. Any way you want to slice it, Brands has won 4 titles since Sanderson took over at PSU. Only 1 other coach has won(Ryan 1x at tOSU) and that was 10 years ago. It isn't about "guarantees' as a whole. It is about a guarantee that a coaching change will do better than a guy that has done better than 99.99% of all coaches out there.....

Look, I literally said that it made sense for OkState because of their circumstances. The risk/reward made solid sense. If the circumstances were even remotely similar at Iowa, it would make sense too. I just am not nearly as against Brands performance as you guys are, to just fire him and hope, and THAT is the entire damn point...

 

[Bucky712]

 

[vhsalum]

You are something else. You call my take brain dead when you see any slightly dissenting argument with such blinders that you only see it as 100% opposite of you. Nothing I said in ANY WAY said I am adverse to risk. But, that doesn't mean you ignore what you have and any possible negatives that result. Any way you want to slice it, Brands has won 4 titles since Sanderson took over at PSU. Only 1 other coach has won(Ryan 1x at tOSU) and that was 10 years ago. It isn't about "guarantees' as a whole. It is about a guarantee that a coaching change will do better than a guy that has done better than 99.99% of all coaches out there.....

Look, I literally said that it made sense for OkState because of their circumstances. The risk/reward made solid sense. If the circumstances were even remotely similar at Iowa, it would make sense too. I just am not nearly as against Brands performance as you guys are, to just fire him and hope, and THAT is the entire damn point...

 

[MSU158]

I don't understand what risk OSU is taking. They needed a coach and have not won a title since 2006.

DT is the hottest name on the market. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Although I agree that it is most likely the right hire for them, Coleman had done a lot to show he could do very well at OkState. On top of that, you have the alumni loyalty factor where I don't think any job would lure him away.

No matter what anyone says, I absolutely believe PSU and OSU are legit concerns if they were to come after DT. Both have college or high school connections for him and are inarguably in areas rich with top notch wrestling in their backyards. Not only would they probably be the 2 clearly most desirable jobs, but they also fit right into his history...

 

[bammhawk1]

Everyone acts like DT is off limits and he is stuck in Stillwater forever. So when the time comes to get a new wrestling coach, go make DT an offer he cant refuse, IF we still want him. I get that OSU was 1 of his choices, but Iowa is still above them and I would say we are 2nd overall behind Pedo U

 

[vhsalum]

Everyone acts like DT is off limits and he is stuck in Stillwater forever. So when the time comes to get a new wrestling coach, go make DT an offer he cant refuse, IF we still want him. I get that OSU was 1 of his choices, but Iowa is still above them and I would say we are 2nd overall behind Pedo U

How?

They have more chips than Iowa, and now, more money. he ain't leaving

 

[Bold_Crow]

Everyone acts like DT is off limits and he is stuck in Stillwater forever. So when the time comes to get a new wrestling coach, go make DT an offer he cant refuse, IF we still want him. I get that OSU was 1 of his choices, but Iowa is still above them and I would say we are 2nd overall behind Pedo U

This is a solid point. We're still Iowa no matter how ugly it's going to be in 2-3 years. With how revenue sharing is going to be playing out, I would definitely rather be in the Big 10 then in the Big 12.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

Everyone acts like DT is off limits and he is stuck in Stillwater forever. So when the time comes to get a new wrestling coach, go make DT an offer he cant refuse, IF we still want him. I get that OSU was 1 of his choices, but Iowa is still above them and I would say we are 2nd overall behind Pedo U

He's not leaving OSU in 4 or 5 years when they're legit title contenders to start over at Iowa.

We are 2nd behind PSU, but that is about to change.

We had our pitch, didn't even swing, and struck out.

DT ain't ever coming to Iowa.

 

[HawkeyePA]

You and T8kdown hate PSU much more than you love Iowa. It's sad.

and yet we have to hear the same old bullshit from you PSU fans in our chatroom...hahaha its actually comical...maybe the truth is that I just hate hearing how great and sanctimonious you and PSU are? I will state it with no reserve that i have NEVER felt the insecure need to go to the PSU fan page and even look around....i am NOT a fan of that program so why would I be inclined to troll them and constant talk crap on their program and coaches.

 

[bourbon n blues]

He's not leaving OSU in 4 or 5 years when they're legit title contenders to start over at Iowa.

We are 2nd behind PSU, but that is about to change.

We had our pitch, didn't even swing, and struck out.

DT ain't ever coming to Iowa.

I would argue that his most likely landing spot is PSU down the road. But who knows?

 

[kjb32812]

I think 80% of the Iowa fans on this board would agree with you. The problem is the ones who can actually bring change haven't figured it out yet. I'm not sure how many more years they need to see Iowa fall on its face in March before they wake up.

Coaching is obviously important but acquiring top talent is the most important thing a coach can do. PSU is so far ahead of everyone in this department and I think DT can make a dent in that.

 

[A Fist Full of Hawkeyes]

I would argue that his most likely landing spot is PSU down the road. But who knows?

I would agree, but that's still along ways away. And if he does what he aims to do in Stillwater and topples PSU then we must ask, why would he go back?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Everyone acts like DT is off limits and he is stuck in Stillwater forever. So when the time comes to get a new wrestling coach, go make DT an offer he cant refuse, IF we still want him. I get that OSU was 1 of his choices, but Iowa is still above them and I would say we are 2nd overall behind Pedo U

A billionaire just funded his hire at OKST FYI.

 

[bourbon n blues]

I would agree, but that's still alonf ways away. And if he does what he aims to do in Stillwater and topples PSU then we must ask, why would he go back?

To build back better lolol! As for toppling PSU I do not doubt his ability, however I'm pretty sure Cael will still be Cael. Say Sanderson is retiring in 10 years and Taylor has won the national title 2-5 times, I would guess PSU is going to have some titles too in that time frame.

But so much can change, you might find some current wrestlers at PSU might be the new guy. I believe we will see something similar to Bill Walsh and his coaching tree.

 

[GlenHawk]

A billionaire just funded his hire at OKST FYI.

 

[dtripp26]

Total non-event.

I needed to make that sarcasm more clear.

 

[LetsGoHawks83]

I don't understand what risk OSU is taking. They needed a coach and have not won a title since 2006.

DT is the hottest name on the market. Seems like a no brainer to me.

Cool. Only 15 more years for Iowa to make a move like OSU. Looking forward to 2039!!

 

[GiApet]

To build back better lolol! As for toppling PSU I do not doubt his ability, however I'm pretty sure Cael will still be Cael. Say Sanderson is retiring in 10 years and Taylor has won the national title 2-5 times, I would guess PSU is going to have some titles too in that time frame.

But so much can change, you might find some current wrestlers at PSU might be the new guy. I believe we will see something similar to Bill Walsh and his coaching tree.

Since DT moved on, heard PSU is in discussions with the Bassett family to groom Bo to be Caels replacement when he decides to hang it up.. Kinda like Iowa has been doing with Spencer for the last 6 years.

 

[24timenattychamps]

Since DT moved on, heard PSU is in discussions with the Bassett family to groom Bo to be Caels replacement when he decides to hang it up.. Kinda like Iowa has been doing with Spencer for the last 6 years.

You didn’t even last 4 hours.

 

[GiApet]

You didn’t even last 4 hours.

Its a transitioning period for me...

 

[GiApet]

Its a transitioning period for me...

Yeah...i walked into that one didnt I?

 

[wahlberg]

You are something else. You call my take brain dead when you see any slightly dissenting argument with such blinders that you only see it as 100% opposite of you. Nothing I said in ANY WAY said I am adverse to risk. But, that doesn't mean you ignore what you have and any possible negatives that result. Any way you want to slice it, Brands has won 4 titles since Sanderson took over at PSU. Only 1 other coach has won(Ryan 1x at tOSU) and that was 10 years ago. It isn't about "guarantees' as a whole. It is about a guarantee that a coaching change will do better than a guy that has done better than 99.99% of all coaches out there.....

Look, I literally said that it made sense for OkState because of their circumstances. The risk/reward made solid sense. If the circumstances were even remotely similar at Iowa, it would make sense too. I just am not nearly as against Brands performance as you guys are, to just fire him and hope, and THAT is the entire damn point...

Brands has won 2 titles since Sanderson took over at PSU, 1 of those being 2010 (Sanderson's first year there) when Sanderson redshirted everyone he possibly could.

 

[Dwayne_Johnson33]

Its a transitioning period for me...