What I learned at NCAAs this weekend

[rivalhawks]

I never said he didn’t donate. People on here said there were multiple billionaires that donated . Everyone knows about Ira. People said there were others besides Ira.

Who’s the “so called billionaire” you refer to here?

“There are not multiple billionaires donating to PSU wrestling. That’s crazy and the so called Billionaire does not donate to the football team or wrestling. It’s Terry Pegula and he built the ice hockey arenas. These rumors get bigger every year. Anything for an excuse.”

 

[Pennstate1985]

Iowa has a more strict compliance department and this will come into play WHEN a search starts for Tom’s successor.
I’ve never understood why the University of Iowa won’t let the HWC promote at Carver.
Tom realizes the importance of the HWC, It would seem he isn’t allowed to promote HWC on campus.
PSU doesn’t get in the way of the NLWC promoting its self on campus, they encourage it.
This is a small part of the whole, however, its importance shouldn’t be minimized. This was an instrumental piece for PSU building the wrestling program they have.

I wonder what the rationale is for that? The RTC is "independent" of the university and therefore should be treated as any other advertiser.

 

[goethe14]

Who’s the “so called billionaire” you refer to here?

“There are not multiple billionaires donating to PSU wrestling. That’s crazy and the so called Billionaire does not donate to the football team or wrestling. I Terry Pegula and he built the ice hockey arenas. These rumors get bigger every year. Anything for an excuse.”

There was a post about a secret billionaire besides Ira that donated all this money behind the scenes. I said there is not one and the only billionaire involved with PSU sports is Terry Pegula and he donated the hockey arena. He doesn’t give money to wrestling. I don’t think he even donates to football .

 

[Inthecircle]

I wonder what the rationale is for that? The RTC is "independent" of the university and therefore should be treated as any other advertiser.

My understanding is Iowa athletics is fully self-supporting. HWC RTC donations/gifts
are revenues the University of Iowa doesn’t receive.

 

[Pennstate1985]

My understanding is Iowa athletics is fully self-supporting. HWC RTC donations/gifts
are revenues the University of Iowa doesn’t receive.

So if I understand you correctly, it's less of a compliance issue and more a matter of Iowa athletics not wanting to dilute their revenue/donation stream by supporting any outside athletic organization on university grounds.

Incredibly myopic if true. Whatever happened to a rising tide lifting all boats?

 

[mcpat]

I’ve never understood why the University of Iowa won’t let the HWC promote at Carver.
Tom realizes the importance of the HWC, It would seem he isn’t allowed to promote HWC on campus.
PSU doesn’t get in the way of the NLWC promoting its self on campus, they encourage it.

How does PSU encourage NLWC to promote itself on campus? And how does Iowa prevent HWC from doing so at Carver?

 

[Nashville_Hawkeye]

NLWC Total revenue form their most recent 990 on file
4,615,955 in revenue
10,552,412 total assets

HWC
1,327,120 total revenue
3,033,119 total assets

Multiple billionaires or not the gap is wide and getting wider.

Perhaps if we were better represented on the world stage we would be able to find more donors more easily. But sadly such is not the case. I'm thinking the HWC is pretty much a one man show with Spencer Lee, though we do have a few others in the rankings. Just like so many are talking about shaking things up on the Hawks coaching staff I'm thinking the HWC also needs some changes if we're going to be a factor...we're certainly not closing many gaps there that I'm aware of. In fact when I check out the Domestic Men's Freestyle Rankings I see 4 HWC wrestlers out of 60 wrestlers listed in the rankings. I'm thinking those number will not help us all that much in getting additional donations...or at the very least I don't think it will help us sell our product. We're Iowa; we should be better than that. I can see PSU beating us, but not some of the others...

57 kg

The best 57 kg wrestlers in America.

www.flowrestling.org

 

[Random4598375]

To be fair, kids like Levi Haines and Tyler Kasak are forgoing their senior years and training with DT. And then placing high at nationals as true freshman, so it’s a bit more than just some kids coach. But agree the risk is what it is. On the other hand, Iowa grabbing DT has me very worried as a PSU fan.

Zach Ryder did it this year. Look out below for him next year. LOL.

This is part of what I have alluded to in the past. The PSU "model", which DT has been fully immersed in for years now, starts with M2 and junior training, including a facility for kids to train with past NCAA champs and even Olympic champs after committing instead of wasting time dominating high schoolers, obviously includes Cael and the PSU squad, and then has NLWC for the kids who want to continue on in international wrestling or Nickal and ATT for the kids who want to move into MMA instead. It's all right there in State College for one stop shopping for the elite of the elite in combat sports from junior to senior. DT understands what this entails and has been an integral part of the construction of the whole thing from the ground floor when Cael first moved over from Iowa St. That more than makes up for not having any head coaching experience at the D1 level. Again, this is all just in the "message board speculation" stage with a very small chance of actually coming to fruition, but if DT moves over to NCAA coaching, it will be with a school with the resources to build out a similar soup-to-nuts world class facility that could compete with PSU, and Iowa is on a very short list of schools with those resources. If there is mutual interest, it would be wise for the Iowa side to take a long look at him.

Nickal is on the UFC 300 main card next month. Once he inevitably ascends to be the UFC champ at his weight in the next couple years and ATT establishes itself as the premier MMA training facility in the world next to NLWC as the premier international wrestling training facility in the world, the gap is going to widen even further.

 

[bbwretler]

This is hard to believe as we are building a $35M facility dedicated solely to the wrestling program. A project funded solely on private gifts.

Absolutely, and that’s where much of the donor money has gone. HWC money pays expenses and money for the wrestlers from fund raising projects each year. However, here’s hoping the administration and others would come up with funds to entice someone like Taylor to come and rejuvenate Hawkeye Wrestling.

you just raised $25mil for a building

you'll be fine.

and you either lack knowledge or are an idiot. money spent for the facility came from fans bank accounts. that money is now gone and is now not available for nil. for most people funds are limited and come from a limited population base. you need to think before you post.

 

[bbwretler]

So if I understand you correctly, it's less of a compliance issue and more a matter of Iowa athletics not wanting to dilute their revenue/donation stream by supporting any outside athletic organization on university grounds.

Incredibly myopic if true. Whatever happened to a rising tide lifting all boats?

the basic fact here is that the university foundation does not want to lose possible donations and sees the HWC as a competitor for those dollars.

 

[bbwretler]

the basic fact here is that the university foundation does not want to lose possible donations and sees the HWC as a competitor for those dollars. foundation wants all funds going through and controlled by them.

 

[PSU Mike]

the basic fact here is that the university foundation does not want to lose possible donations and sees the HWC as a competitor for those dollars.

Best answer I’ve heard on this front.

 

[DeangeloVickers]

I agree with Wahlberg. The ironic thing is, the more elite the recruit, the less they care about NIL. The elite athletes are hyper competitive and want to be in the situation where they are most likely to win NCAA championships and gold medals. Money doesn’t buy that.

This article talks about Mesenbrink’s thinking when he chose PSU:

https://www.flowrestling.org/articl...commiting-to-penn-state-next-years-lineup-nil

Items to note about his decision:

1). His decision was 0.1% based on NIL.
2). He wanted a good team culture.
3). He didn’t want a training regime with too much live wrestling. From what I have heard, this essentially excluded Iowa from consideration.
4). He liked the focus on performance over winning and being a good person.
5). He trusted that the coaches will help him reach his highest potential.

Out of high school or coming from Cal Baptist? The miss on him was out of high school when he was just a few hours from campus.

 

[jneffer]

Absolutely, and that’s where much of the donor money has gone. HWC money pays expenses and money for the wrestlers from fund raising projects each year. However, here’s hoping the administration and others would come up with funds to entice someone like Taylor to come and rejuvenate Hawkeye Wrestling.

and you either lack knowledge or are an idiot. money spent for the facility came from fans bank accounts. that money is now gone and is now not available for nil. for most people funds are limited and come from a limited population base. you need to think before you post.

but that all has to be considered as a whole

psu and nlwc has a much bigger war chest of funds available to the athletes and their support, but psu and nlwc doesn't have the nicest wrestling facility in the country currently under construction

i agree that donor funds are limited, which is why the decision in how they get used is so important. is the assumption that the people who donated to fund a facility just wouldn't donate to fund or improve the hwc?

 

[Jcchawk]

So if I understand you correctly, it's less of a compliance issue and more a matter of Iowa athletics not wanting to dilute their revenue/donation stream by supporting any outside athletic organization on university grounds.

Incredibly myopic if true. Whatever happened to a rising tide lifting all boats?

Iowa is one of the few Universities that is 100% self funding. Most requires aid from the University. They don't run at a huge surplus.

 

[T8KUDWN]

People tell me that DT isn't worth $1M per year because he is untested, yet Cael got essentially $1.5M and he was largely untested as well. Yes Cael had 3 years of coaching but DT has 3 years of club coaching/ownership. As Fist Full of Hawkeyes said, you can't wait around for good things to happen or you risk not having anyone good being around when you are ready. Paraphrasing there.

Carl also had 2 or 3 years as an assistant coaching under Bobby Douglas.

 

[AndEEss]

and you either lack knowledge or are an idiot. money spent for the facility came from fans bank accounts. that money is now gone and is now not available for nil. for most people funds are limited and come from a limited population base. you need to think before you post.

I think the point that was being made, and still seems like people don’t get, is that people donate to the NLWC and not to build a competing $35.1 million dollar facility. That brings in talent.

Fact is, NLWC and PSU could train in an old Quonset hut, and they’d still be beating the tar out of everyone. Iowa fans keep focusing on their new, world class facility, failing to realize that it will have exactly one (1) world class athlete in it when complete.

 

[js8793]

the basic fact here is that the university foundation does not want to lose possible donations and sees the HWC as a competitor for those dollars.

Having some personal experience with university administration, this tracks. some of the most backward-minded people I've ever dealt with are high-end university administrators.

 

[el dub]

I think the point that was being made, and still seems like people don’t get, is that people donate to the NLWC and not to build a competing $35.1 million dollar facility. That brings in talent.

Fact is, NLWC and PSU could train in an old Quonset hut, and they’d still be beating the tar out of everyone. Iowa fans keep focusing on their new, world class facility, failing to realize that it will have exactly one (1) world class athlete in it when complete.

Unfortunately I agree with this assessment.

 

[OILCHECKER]

the basic fact here is that the university foundation does not want to lose possible donations and sees the HWC as a competitor for those dollars.

We also were slow getting support for the NIL program (at least for fb and bb) from our previous AD because they were concerned donors would funnel money to the NIL vs the school directly.

 

[PSUer1989]

I think the point that was being made, and still seems like people don’t get, is that people donate to the NLWC and not to build a competing $35.1 million dollar facility. That brings in talent.

Fact is, NLWC and PSU could train in an old Quonset hut, and they’d still be beating the tar out of everyone. Iowa fans keep focusing on their new, world class facility, failing to realize that it will have exactly one (1) world class athlete in it when complete.

Sanderson even spoke to that. He said the PSU facility is fine, and has everything they need. Could it be improved? Sure. But he doesn’t want wrestlers to come because of a facility, but rather because of what is happening in the facility

 

[Pennstate1985]

Well that's an issue that needs resolution before you start interviewing new coaches because I can't see any innovator types moving to Iowa City with an administrative roadblock that large in the way. Maybe not all of the problems are directly tied to Brands then. Maybe the administration has demotivated Tom on the money side to the point where you now are where you are. As we all know, all parts have to be working together to produce a great result.

 

[MadChill]

Lessons From The Man Who Turned His "Little Family Office" Into a $50B Behemoth

12 Lessons From Ira Lubert, The Wisest Man You Don't Know

thedukeofdirt.beehiiv.com

Here's another one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen_Dreibelbis

 

[gymdad]

Iowa is one of the few Universities that is 100% self funding. Most requires aid from the University. They don't run at a huge surplus.

This self funding status needs an *. The athletic dept received a $50 million loan from UI in 2000 to offset losses primarily due to Covid. The balance owed as of end of 2023 was $45 million and accruing interest @ 2.5%. Some might consider a $50 million loan at significantly below market rates as a form of financial aid. In fairness A # of other university athletic depts. obtained loans during the Covid crisis.
See https://www.thegazette.com/higher-education/iowa-public-university-athletic-budgets-swell/

 

[pickr374]

I thought I read somewhere that the loan had been paid back? I absolutely could be wrong or maybe I misread it.

 

[MSU158]

This self funding status needs an *. The athletic dept received a $50 million loan from UI in 2000 to offset losses primarily due to Covid. The balance owed as of end of 2023 was $45 million and accruing interest @ 2.5%. Some might consider a $50 million loan at significantly below market rates as a form of financial aid. In fairness A # of other university athletic depts. obtained loans during the Covid crisis.
See https://www.thegazette.com/higher-education/iowa-public-university-athletic-budgets-swell/

I assume you meant 2020 and not 2000? Also, rates were at all time lows around that time. Is it not possible that the prime rate was 2.5% at that time?

Finally, all you did was prove his point with no real need of an asterisk. You showed not only that the AD had to pay the loan back in full with zero subsidizing, they still had to pay interest regardless of the amount…

 

[Inthecircle]

Sanderson even spoke to that. He said the PSU facility is fine, and has everything they need. Could it be improved? Sure. But he doesn’t want wrestlers to come because of a facility, but rather because of what is happening in the facility

Carl is at liberty to say this now because the success speaks for itself, and rightly so. The new facility is definitely going to help not hurt, it had to come first.
There was chatter that we lost some recruits, especially to Ohio State, because of facilities.
Covid was a big deterrent to the timeline of the overall strategy which was in place.
I can already hear people saying it’s an excuse. Before sounding off consider whether Covid helped or hurt Iowa Wrestling.
The HWC is building funds and having the facilities paid for will help the cause. I also believe HWC has a better long term plan in place than they did pre-Covid. HWC did secure a long term endorsement last year which will eventually help with year to year expenses. The reality is we aren’t going to flip a switch and catch PSU. Next year won’t be a big blowout loss and some changes will occur, although they may not be visible.

 

[bbwretler]

but that all has to be considered as a whole

psu and nlwc has a much bigger war chest of funds available to the athletes and their support, but psu and nlwc doesn't have the nicest wrestling facility in the country currently under construction

i agree that donor funds are limited, which is why the decision in how they get used is so important. is the assumption that the people who donated to fund a facility just wouldn't donate to fund or improve the hwc?

it’s exactly as I previously stated. there are limited amounts and when they are used for one purpose it reduces the amount available for others.

 

[Chips28]

Huh?

He was in HWC for awhile

 

[mcpat]

First, I hope TnT stay. Not as a PSU fan that wants to keep beating Iowa, but because to me, they are Iowa wrestling and are good for the sport. That’s not to say I don’t have some occasional issues with one or the other, but it’s hard to envision the sport, and Iowa wrestling, without them.

And they did just win a title four years ago and were favorites the year before that.

I’d rather they turn it around and give PSU a run for their money.

But a new, state of the art, best in the nation, facility combined with hiring the biggest young name in the sport could be huge, and very quickly so, for Iowa. I feel like folks are discounting the potential impact of the former a bit more than they should. Especially if its opening coincides with the hiring of the top young name in coaching. I’m pretty sure Cael’s arrival at PSU coincided with a new practice facility too.

 

[bbwretler]

I think the point that was being made, and still seems like people don’t get, is that people donate to the NLWC and not to build a competing $35.1 million dollar facility. That brings in talent.

Fact is, NLWC and PSU could train in an old Quonset hut, and they’d still be beating the tar out of everyone. Iowa fans keep focusing on their new, world class facility, failing to realize that it will have exactly one (1) world class athlete in it when complete.

however, that’s not what he said. his statement was the opposite in that the $25M for the facility made everything ok.

 

[jneffer]

it’s exactly as I previously stated. there are limited amounts and when they are used for one purpose it reduces the amount available for others.

no sh*t

so it's not a question of psu wrestling having more $$$ than iowa wrestling

its that psu wrestling has chosen to spend their $$$ differently than iowa wrestling

 

[Is_there_vodka_in_heaven]

Carl also had 2 or 3 years as an assistant coaching under Bobby Douglas.

Does anyone think he wouldn't have been successful if he was hired as a head coach straight away?

Everyone cries about lack of innovation but then finds reason to continue to stick to conventions.

 

[vhsalum]

He was in HWC for awhile

I remember that. But what did you mean? That tom changed to have him in the club?

 

[T8KUDWN]

Does anyone think he wouldn't have been successful if he was hired as a head coach straight away?

Everyone cries about lack of innovation but then finds reason to continue to stick to conventions.

All I was doing was replying to a post that said his only coaching experience was 3 years as a head coach before going to psu.

Please don't include me with "everyone cries" comment. I haven't cried about anything.

 

[vhsalum]

All I was doing was replying to a post that said his only coaching experience was 3 years as a head coach before going to psu.

Please don't include me with "everyone cries" comment. I haven't cried about anything.

You're crying now. cry baby.

 

[TailgateTom]

But a new, state of the art, best in the nation, facility combined with hiring the biggest young name in the sport could be huge, and very quickly so, for Iowa. I feel like folks are discounting the potential impact of the former a bit more than they should. Especially if its opening coincides with the hiring of the top young name in coaching. I’m pretty sure Cael’s arrival at PSU coincided with a new practice facility too.

Excellent post--this is exactly where I'm at. Throw whatever it takes at DT, let him bring some dudes with him to fill out his staff. I cannot imagine a more perfect storm for the Iowa program than this. DT has a chance to be an all-time great, forever remembered with love by the two biggest fan bases on the planet and would permanently cement his legacy in history. The iron is only hot for so long.....make it happen, Beth!

 

[GlenHawk]

Carl is at liberty to say this now because the success speaks for itself, and rightly so. The new facility is definitely going to help not hurt, it had to come first.
There was chatter that we lost some recruits, especially to Ohio State, because of facilities.
Covid was a big deterrent to the timeline of the overall strategy which was in place.
I can already hear people saying it’s an excuse. Before sounding off consider whether Covid helped or hurt Iowa Wrestling.
The HWC is building funds and having the facilities paid for will help the cause. I also believe HWC has a better long term plan in place than they did pre-Covid. HWC did secure a long term endorsement last year which will eventually help with year to year expenses. The reality is we aren’t going to flip a switch and catch PSU. Next year won’t be a big blowout loss and some changes will occur, although they may not be visible.

What do you mean by 'they may not be visible'? I assume you're referring to no changes in the coaching staff, so what will be different this off-season compared to the previous ten? Will we still see Iowa wrestlers struggling to finish takedowns and wrestle through tough positions in 2025?

Last year, the only 'changes' seemed to be the arrival of the Ferrari circus, so it's hard for me to believe there's a well-thought-out master plan in place. This isn't simply about flipping a switch to catch up with PSU - it's about adapting and offering a brand of wrestling and environment that today's top recruits want to be a part of.

Finally, these issues have been plaguing Iowa wrestlers long before the pandemic, so you were right to assume that it will be viewed as another excuse. Even in 2021 when we won it all, we still encountered the same problems throughout the tournament and on Saturday night. While we may have won the tournament, PSU certainly won the night.

 

[manatree]

NLWC Total revenue form their most recent 990 on file
4,615,955 in revenue
10,552,412 total assets

HWC
1,327,120 total revenue
3,033,119 total assets

Multiple billionaires or not the gap is wide and getting wider.

Revenue & Assets are not the numbers you should be focusing on. Expenses spent on salaries/employees are where it's at.

The food in my cupboard doesn't make me fat.

 

[wahlberg]

Carl is at liberty to say this now because the success speaks for itself, and rightly so. The new facility is definitely going to help not hurt, it had to come first.
There was chatter that we lost some recruits, especially to Ohio State, because of facilities.
Covid was a big deterrent to the timeline of the overall strategy which was in place.
I can already hear people saying it’s an excuse. Before sounding off consider whether Covid helped or hurt Iowa Wrestling.
The HWC is building funds and having the facilities paid for will help the cause. I also believe HWC has a better long term plan in place than they did pre-Covid. HWC did secure a long term endorsement last year which will eventually help with year to year expenses. The reality is we aren’t going to flip a switch and catch PSU. Next year won’t be a big blowout loss and some changes will occur, although they may not be visible.

Didn't Covid hurt all Wrestling programs and not just Iowa Wrestling?