This is how a respectful disagreement between two adults should be handled.
What I learned at NCAAs this weekend
- Thread starter vhsalum
- Start date
This is NOT how a disagreement between two adults should be handled.
I agree with the spirit of your post. I do think PSU is on a pedestal, and they're anchored pretty heavily upon it. It will take people obsessed with not conceding to knock them off of it. I believe TnT have the obsession, but the facts demonstrate that don't have the proper methods and procedures.
To be fair, kids like Levi Haines and Tyler Kasak are forgoing their senior years and training with DT. And then placing high at nationals as true freshman, so it’s a bit more than just some kids coach. But agree the risk is what it is. On the other hand, Iowa grabbing DT has me very worried as a PSU fan.
Cael Sanderson Quote: “Unless you continually work, evolve, and innovate, you'll learn a quick and painful lesson from someone who has.”
I don’t think anyone is tougher or works harder than TnT. Do they continually evolve and innovate? I don’t think so.
I don’t think anyone is tougher or works harder than TnT. Do they continually evolve and innovate? I don’t think so.
A few months ago I would've 100% agreed with you, but I can't anymore.
TNT are now 55, realistically they only have a handful of years left anyways. They're both in phenomenal shape (for their age), but they've also both been open about this getting harder on their bodies. They can only keep this up for so long. Eventually, time is going to catch up. Eventually, they'll want to retire. That eventuality is much sooner rather than later and that's a fact.
Whoever comes in after TNT will face failure. Whoever comes in after Cael will face failure. That's a roll of the dice for wheoever takes over after a successful (and iconic) coach. That is also a fact.
Likewise, the big name candidates that are around right now will be the same names in 4 or 5 years... except they may l not be available because someone else beat Iowa to the punch. That's also a big risk and Goetz has to be considering it.
So, if you have the most popular wrestler in the world showing even the slightest bit of interest, you have to entertain it even if it causes turbulence.
Do you bring in someone like DT or Dake a couple years sooner than planned and have them go through growing pains or risk never having them at all?
You speak of no guarantees and a lot of what ifs, but the only guarantee we have right now is that whatever TNT are doing isn't working. Something has to change and the program can't wait 4 or 5 more years to do it.
Everyone around him is an Iowa clone; we've needed new perspectives for years so what do we do? Bring in more Iowa guys. I'm not opposed to Iowa guys if their names are Spencer Lee or Michael Kemerer, etc. We need young, energetic, offense-minded kids on the coaching staff who can bring in like-minded recruits. I hate the way we wrestle right now. So proud of Drake for making the finals...so proud! And at the same time I wanted to puke watching him wrestle Fig in the finals. He's the much better wrestler yet wrestled Fig's style (wait for that one opportunity and hope for the best) and got beat. We need offense...lots of it!!
I'll be impressed when I start seeing action. Last I saw Fran was still coaching BB and Kirk Ferentz, who I loved before nepotism and zero offense became OK is still coaching FB. I want actions, not words.
I mostly agree with everything you are saying. I just don't think there will be a huge dropoff if you bring a big name in. Maybe a little bump during the learning curve. Iowa is still having success. Not nearly as the level they would like, but something. I believe the guys on that team are there because the program still carries weight. I obviously don't know, but I would be willing to bet they went there for the black and gold singlet, and not for TNT. I think the coaches are passionate, but they coach a certain style. I have seen enough wrestling to know that blue chip recruits don't want to wrestle that way. Social media posts are about high powered offensive wrestling. I've never seen a kid post clips of his hard hand fighting, and solid positioning.
Sorry for the rant, it's just that most kids are fundamentally sound now. They aren't going to all of a sudden forget how to do that. It's always said that just about anyone could have the results Cael does with that talent. I would argue that a lot of coaches would have similar results to Brands with his lineup. Just perhaps some new blood would draw in some different talent.
BTW, this is not to say I want Tom Brands fired...not at all. I'm just saying that our BB and FB programs really have become very average...should see action there really quick IMO.
I agree about your PSU's current assessment. T&T, or Iowa wrestling program for that matter, will never concede. However, the reality is that our fan base is not happy even if we are consistently second or third in the nation (we were just a few points behind Michigan, Cornell and ISU this year- and if only Glazier wins match or two, not to mention close losses for Kennedy, Teske etc. puts us in the second place - even without suspended wrestlers).
Iowa is not unique in this sense, some other big wrestling programs are struggling to "catch up" with PSU as well. Look what happened to Minnesota, Nebraska and even Ohio State and Oklahoma State over the last few years. Yes, something needs to change; recruiting, pre-conference schedule, practice regimen, post season approach and possibly personnel change. But whatever happens, looking objectively at it, it will take us several years to just come close to them again - let alone knock them down from the pedestal.
I'm good with Nolf and Spencer!!
Remember the old Clint Eastwood movie, Two Mules for Sister Sara, "To hell with them there fellas." Frankly I don't care about the other guys; I care about Iowa. And trust me, Cael doesn't either. He loved doubling up everyone at NCAAs and didn't give a rat's ass about what happened with the scores of the #3-8 teams."
Huh??
Penn State Board of Trustees chair Ira Lubert donates $5 million to university
Of Lubert's gift, $1.75 million will be used to renovate the Lasch Football Building.
Ira Lubert Gifts $5 Million To Penn State, $1.75 Million For Lasch Renovations
Ira Lubert, a 1973 Penn State graduate and chair of the university’s Board of Trustees, committed the $5 million gift that was announced on Monday morning.
onwardstate.com
Ira Lubert is only member of Penn State football coach search committee who matters
Penn State has a dilemma. Well, several well-documented ones, actually. But one in particular pertaining to its search for a new head football coach: It needs to maintain the profitability of a program that cleared $52 million last fiscal year....
Penn State's New NIL Collective Off to Strong Start
Success With Honor, Penn State's new NIL collective, is off to a strong fundraising start.
It's this sort of liquid wealth that allowed Lubert to help bankroll the $500,000 salary and $1 million bonus that lured wrestling legend Cael Sanderson from his alma mater Iowa State to become PSU's wrestling coach in 2009.
Last edited:
I don't know about several years just to come close if certain personalities decide to move to Iowa City and take over the program. I'm not saying that's what I want to happen, but big names would surely bring in big talent. We might not win in a year or two, but the gap would definitely close...and I don't think we would miss a step with TnT faithfuls leaving the program, not with the access to talent that we can get from the portal. A shake up and a big name young coach could sure make it interesting. In the end we need talent or we won't come close.
Penn State Board of Trustees chair Ira Lubert donates $5 million to university
Of Lubert's gift, $1.75 million will be used to renovate the Lasch Football Building.www.psucollegian.com
Ira Lubert Gifts $5 Million To Penn State, $1.75 Million For Lasch Renovations
Ira Lubert, a 1973 Penn State graduate and chair of the university’s Board of Trustees, committed the $5 million gift that was announced on Monday morning.
Ira Lubert is only member of Penn State football coach search committee who matters
Penn State has a dilemma. Well, several well-documented ones, actually. But one in particular pertaining to its search for a new head football coach: It needs to maintain the profitability of a program that cleared $52 million last fiscal year....www.pennlive.com
It's this sort of liquid wealth that allowed Lubert to help bankroll the $500,000 salary and $1 million bonus that lured wrestling legend Cael Sanderson from his alma mater Iowa State to become PSU's wrestling coach in 2009.
That's the best $1.5m PSU ever spent!!
Ira is not a billionaire. Nor is their multiple ones.Huh??
Penn State Board of Trustees chair Ira Lubert donates $5 million to university
Of Lubert's gift, $1.75 million will be used to renovate the Lasch Football Building.
Ira Lubert Gifts $5 Million To Penn State, $1.75 Million For Lasch Renovations
Ira Lubert, a 1973 Penn State graduate and chair of the university’s Board of Trustees, committed the $5 million gift that was announced on Monday morning.
Ira Lubert is only member of Penn State football coach search committee who matters
Penn State has a dilemma. Well, several well-documented ones, actually. But one in particular pertaining to its search for a new head football coach: It needs to maintain the profitability of a program that cleared $52 million last fiscal year....
Penn State's New NIL Collective Off to Strong Start
Success With Honor, Penn State's new NIL collective, is off to a strong fundraising start.www.si.com
It's this sort of liquid wealth that allowed Lubert to help bankroll the $500,000 salary and $1 million bonus that lured wrestling legend Cael Sanderson from his alma mater Iowa State to become PSU's wrestling coach in 2009.
I wish I could write a post as full of wisdom as what you just did. You seem like someone who has seen a couple sunrises or three.
Lessons From The Man Who Turned His "Little Family Office" Into a $50B Behemoth
12 Lessons From Ira Lubert, The Wisest Man You Don't Know
thedukeofdirt.beehiiv.com
Just like Dan Gable. Two lions who HATE losing. Both are innovators in their eras. Both take no prisoners.
I think the next 5-10 years will be a great time in the sport with all of these olympics wrestlers coming onto the coaching scene. It's been a lot of years since we've had this kind of potential talent come into the coaching ranks.
Last edited:
You still sticking to your claim he’s never donated money to the football or wrestling team?
People tell me that DT isn't worth $1M per year because he is untested, yet Cael got essentially $1.5M and he was largely untested as well. Yes Cael had 3 years of coaching but DT has 3 years of club coaching/ownership. As Fist Full of Hawkeyes said, you can't wait around for good things to happen or you risk not having anyone good being around when you are ready. Paraphrasing there.
So, you think the program is ruined then? Nice to have that on record. 🙁you sound like a malcontent, maybe you ruined the program
Not sure if you meant to respond to me or not, but I didn't mention anything about a drop off.
Otherwise, I agree with everything you just said too.
Sorry. Didn't word that the best. I agreed with what you were saying. I just don't necessarily think whoever follows will face failure. I'm never the best at getting things out. I know there are concerns with a change, but I don't think there would be much of downturn. I think the program has been steady in spite of the coaching. Maybe not progressing , but steady. I think it has enough support to withstand a change. Im good with either overhauling the coaching staff, or the current coaching staff overhauling their methods.
I've never been to Carver. It's on my bucket list. I want to scream stalling with everyone else. I would just rather yell after a guy takes his 10th shot, and not from his 5th minute of pushing. Too cool of an atmosphere to not have crazy scoring.
This is now just being realized? I'm a casual Iowa wrestling fan, every time I saw a Gilman interview... he always gave me creepy/weird vibes. I get people are competitive but he struck me more as someone who needed to be diagnosed with something and probably not very pleasant to be around.
Idk. Depending on what you believe regarding the big ten 133 seeding fiasco this year, that could be considered innovative.
I never said he didn’t donate. People on here said there were multiple billionaires that donated . Everyone knows about Ira. People said there were others besides Ira.
I should clarify by facing failure I mean that anybody that comes in after any coach may crush it or shit the mat regardless of it being who the AD wants or not. Likewise, we may strike out with Taylor and end up with someone that's not even on our radar that ends up being tremendous. Who knows.
Point is, the risk is always there, but we can no longer be so afraid of regression that it scares us away from trying to get better. It should definitely be a calculated risk, but it's still a risk nonetheless.
And lastly, you must find your way to CHA someday soon. It's an amazing experience and a fun city. Make a weekend of it and enjoy all the sites.
NLWC Total revenue form their most recent 990 on file
4,615,955 in revenue
10,552,412 total assets
HWC
1,327,120 total revenue
3,033,119 total assets
Multiple billionaires or not the gap is wide and getting wider.
4,615,955 in revenue
10,552,412 total assets
HWC
1,327,120 total revenue
3,033,119 total assets
Multiple billionaires or not the gap is wide and getting wider.
you just raised $25mil for a building
you'll be fine.
you'll be fine.
Iowa has a more strict compliance department and this will come into play WHEN a search starts for Tom’s successor.
I’ve never understood why the University of Iowa won’t let the HWC promote at Carver.
Tom realizes the importance of the HWC, It would seem he isn’t allowed to promote HWC on campus.
PSU doesn’t get in the way of the NLWC promoting its self on campus, they encourage it.
This is a small part of the whole, however, its importance shouldn’t be minimized. This was an instrumental piece for PSU building the wrestling program they have.
I’ve never understood why the University of Iowa won’t let the HWC promote at Carver.
Tom realizes the importance of the HWC, It would seem he isn’t allowed to promote HWC on campus.
PSU doesn’t get in the way of the NLWC promoting its self on campus, they encourage it.
This is a small part of the whole, however, its importance shouldn’t be minimized. This was an instrumental piece for PSU building the wrestling program they have.
Similar threads
