Can't disagree with you but he can take the political stuff to the off topic board.
What if?
- Thread starter amahawk
- Start date
Concurred. Luke Lachey is absolutely a difference maker. Kaleb Brown also has immense potential. We have pieces to make strides going forward but we need a Coordinator to make it work. Our line should be improved off of Proctor coming back alone but as a unit, they will be the question mark.
Wick had 2 catches for 14 and 17 yards in 2022 against ISU and Mich. I didnt say he was going to be a starter or Larry Fitzgerald. I dont know that he botched up any or many catches as I couldnt find a # of targets stats.
I say if we have a guy that can come off the bench and catch a couple mid range passes against two P5 teams, one of those teams being very good then he might be a help
Until we get a proven coordinator, we can’t play the what if game, especially with wide receivers. We’ve been doing this for 3 years. We need one that knows how to stretch or open the field instead of condensing it as Kirk wants to do. We literally have no production coming back and nothing on the bench that has produced anything. This hire is huge.
-Of course Kirk hasn't been embarrassed by the performance of his team. The objective is to win and his teams have done that quite regularly and at an amazingly consistent clip for over two decades. Kirk is feeling nothing close to embarrassed.
I'm embarrassed for people that are more concerned with tearing down a winning team than they are with celebrating it. Especially when that team has been a winning program for over two decades. Seriously, I really do feel bad for people who think this way.
-When comparing the programs of Kirk and Fran you have to analyze their entire tenure. Fran's defenses are overall last in the big ten in his time at Iowa. He has done literally nothing to address improving the defense. In fact, when asked what can be done to be better on defense, Fran has consistently responded that Iowa is an offensive program. He doesn't even care that the defense sucks. This is negligence. The first fundamental of defense is guarding the ball. Iowa is consistently poor at this. Which is to say that Fran's teams are deficient in the fundamentals.
Never can Kirk be accused of being negligent when it comes to fundamentals. For 25 years his teams and players have been known for being fundamentally sound. His players are technically sound enough to consistently get drafted into the NFL.
Only a few seasons have Kirk's offenses been really bad, whereas almost all of Fran's defenses have been really bad. Just because KF's teams have fallen on a couple bad years doesn't mean that he's negligent. You can't say that he isn't trying to get better in this area. He picked up some important offensive pieces in the portal before last season to try to improve the offense. And another effective change he made last season was a switch to a lot more inside running with pin and pull as the blocking scheme. He is also making a switch at WR coach.
-Defense in college basketball is almost entirely coaching and has very little to do with athleticism. Look at a team like Wisconsin. Traditionally they aren't very athletic. But they are always great defensively. TJ is now doing the same thing at ISU.
But if you do want to use the argument that Fran has difficulty getting enough athleticism and quickness to come to Iowa, then the same argument applies for the lack of offensive game breakers at Iowa for football.
-I don't think anyone is arguing that an improved offense would necessitate a downturn in defense. They are arguing that improving the offense by certain methods could compromise the D. Kirk has flat out said that throwing the ball around hurts the D and makes it harder to win. This is the point that astute fans are agreeing with.
It should again be noted that part of the reason the offensive stats in football have been so bad lately is because the defense and punter were good enough that in many scenarios a conscious choice was made to be conservative on offense and defer to the defense as a method to WIN the game. Again, this is why teams have deferred to their defense for 150 years by way of punting on 4th down. This is the sport of "foot"ball.
In no way do bad defensive stats ever help a team win in basketball. Being good at defense in basketball is much more important than being good at offense is in football.
Also, it's possible to consistently win with the statistically worst offense in football. It's not possible to consistently win with the statistically worst defense in football.
In the end, Kirk's teams are more successful than Fran's teams at Iowa. Football has finished in the top 25 44% of the time under Kirk. While basketball has finished in the top 25 30.7% of the time under Fran
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The offense will struggle moving from triple to double digits next year. That side of the just doesn’t have that much talent. Yes, adding Proctor helps, but the cupboard is still pretty bare.
So because of Fran we should be okay with a record breaking season in how bad the offense was and a good offense would ruin the defense. It’s amazing what some of us Iowa fans have come to.
I never said anything of the sort. The comparison was started earlier in the thread and I made a contribution to the discussion
I guess I’m not one of these astute fans you speak of because I’m just curious how changing things from the worst offense in the country could compromise our defense. I can think of how it’ll help by field positioning and time of possession but please let me know how an improved offense compromises the defense
I remember seasons when ISM and Brandon Smith were unproven. Hoping for the best.
There is a dearth of developed talent right now on the offensive side of the ball. The QB room and WR room are still hurting. The oline hasn't had a year of solid play, let alone solid depth for 3 years now. It's hard to see how all of this gets fixed in year one by a new OC but the portal makes a lot more possible. Proctor, McNamara and Brown are good examples of key adds that can make a difference in relative short order. Injuries will be key as always, but particularly with this offense where quality depth is pretty nonexistent with the exception of running back and maybe tight end. If McNamara can get/stay healthy, and that's a big if, the offense could be significantly better in the near term assuming the new OC isn't a Brian clone. If not, then I think Kirk's time left is probably short.
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Jonesy, being that I know football better than technology I'll have to respond one-by-one to your bolded segments.
1. I really think you overestimate how much Kirk both hears and cares about the thoughts of outsiders. Sure he sees the stats and knows his offense isn't doing much and wants to do better. But he also has no problem with the fact that he's finding ways to win. That's why he said the team's record should be a more important part of evaluating an OC. In the end the objective is to win and KF is doing that enough that I promise you he in no way feels embarrassed.
2. The nature of the conversation was a comparison between KF and FMC, originally started by LittleZ. When comparing the two programs the entire tenures are analyzed. You can't say KF's approach on offense has been negligent based on a couple down years. The vast majority of his tenure the offense has been fine. Neither coach has changed his formula much. It's just that some years are more effective than others. Almost every Fran team has been awful at defense and his teams are poor at the fundamental of guarding the ball.
3. I never said anything about Brian. I was merely giving examples of efforts KF has made to improve the offense that help show he hasn't been negligent in comparison to Fran's negligence. And again you overate how important the opinion of the fan base would have been to KF had he canned Copeland while Brian was retained.
4. TJ's team has decent but not great athleticism. Certainly you can say that his team last year was fairly average athletically, yet they maxed out defensively. Defense in college basketball is a team thing, which makes it all about coaching.
5. So you're either giving Fran a pass for choosing to recruit skill over athleticism, or you're saying Iowa has limitations bringing in higher althleticim. Either way, football has a similar situation. They have an easier time getting a player that they can make into a difference maker on defense than they do getting those players on offense. And even though the players don't have to play both ways, Iowa has to choose to put their best athletes on defense and choose to allocate their recruiting resources to defense before offense.
6. No, I did not think Brian should be retained. And I don't think anyone is saying the offense has to be sacrificed to maintain an elite D. The point is that nothing that could even potentially compromise the D is a good idea. Kirk has said that throwing the ball around compromises the D. So anyone suggesting this as a fix for the offense is suggesting a bad idea.
7. I wasn't defending the football team's offense. I was making the point that it's worse to be bad at D in basketball than it is to have an unproductive offense in football. In many situations, deferring to the defense was something that helped Iowa win football games. This dynamic does not exist in basketball. Yes, Iowa's offensive stats were bad because the offense was bad. But they were worse than they would have been had the staff not consistently chose to defer to the defense and punter as a way to help them win. Again, deferring to your defense is standard in football. That's why teams punt.
8. You are probably correct that a team can only get so far while sucking on one side of the ball. Again, I was just comparing why Fran's deficiency is worse than Kirk's current deficiency.
9. Again, I was elaborating on how Kirk's and Fran's programs compare. If you want to judge how Iowa football, in a down year, performed against it's best competition, then that's a different conversation. I'll add to that conversation though by saying that 0-3 is much more important than is 92-0. Iowa football does not exist to entertain you. If a win, or if 10 wins, or if 20+ years of consistently winning at a good clip, or if any Hawkeye team that dedicates their lives to representing this state isn't entertaining to you, then take a hike
1. I really think you overestimate how much Kirk both hears and cares about the thoughts of outsiders. Sure he sees the stats and knows his offense isn't doing much and wants to do better. But he also has no problem with the fact that he's finding ways to win. That's why he said the team's record should be a more important part of evaluating an OC. In the end the objective is to win and KF is doing that enough that I promise you he in no way feels embarrassed.
2. The nature of the conversation was a comparison between KF and FMC, originally started by LittleZ. When comparing the two programs the entire tenures are analyzed. You can't say KF's approach on offense has been negligent based on a couple down years. The vast majority of his tenure the offense has been fine. Neither coach has changed his formula much. It's just that some years are more effective than others. Almost every Fran team has been awful at defense and his teams are poor at the fundamental of guarding the ball.
3. I never said anything about Brian. I was merely giving examples of efforts KF has made to improve the offense that help show he hasn't been negligent in comparison to Fran's negligence. And again you overate how important the opinion of the fan base would have been to KF had he canned Copeland while Brian was retained.
4. TJ's team has decent but not great athleticism. Certainly you can say that his team last year was fairly average athletically, yet they maxed out defensively. Defense in college basketball is a team thing, which makes it all about coaching.
5. So you're either giving Fran a pass for choosing to recruit skill over athleticism, or you're saying Iowa has limitations bringing in higher althleticim. Either way, football has a similar situation. They have an easier time getting a player that they can make into a difference maker on defense than they do getting those players on offense. And even though the players don't have to play both ways, Iowa has to choose to put their best athletes on defense and choose to allocate their recruiting resources to defense before offense.
6. No, I did not think Brian should be retained. And I don't think anyone is saying the offense has to be sacrificed to maintain an elite D. The point is that nothing that could even potentially compromise the D is a good idea. Kirk has said that throwing the ball around compromises the D. So anyone suggesting this as a fix for the offense is suggesting a bad idea.
7. I wasn't defending the football team's offense. I was making the point that it's worse to be bad at D in basketball than it is to have an unproductive offense in football. In many situations, deferring to the defense was something that helped Iowa win football games. This dynamic does not exist in basketball. Yes, Iowa's offensive stats were bad because the offense was bad. But they were worse than they would have been had the staff not consistently chose to defer to the defense and punter as a way to help them win. Again, deferring to your defense is standard in football. That's why teams punt.
8. You are probably correct that a team can only get so far while sucking on one side of the ball. Again, I was just comparing why Fran's deficiency is worse than Kirk's current deficiency.
9. Again, I was elaborating on how Kirk's and Fran's programs compare. If you want to judge how Iowa football, in a down year, performed against it's best competition, then that's a different conversation. I'll add to that conversation though by saying that 0-3 is much more important than is 92-0. Iowa football does not exist to entertain you. If a win, or if 10 wins, or if 20+ years of consistently winning at a good clip, or if any Hawkeye team that dedicates their lives to representing this state isn't entertaining to you, then take a hike
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Next year I am hopeful for the offense but I won't believe it till I see it. Part of me thinks adding Proctor shuffles the deck a little to where maybe the run game can kind of fix itself.
This whole passing system just needs imploded. That's why I am ok with John's. A better/more productive passing game will help the run game as well. I'd like us to hit 100th, 80th would be great also. A year or 2 of actual improvement may help on the recruiting side offensively especially skill positions.
This whole passing system just needs imploded. That's why I am ok with John's. A better/more productive passing game will help the run game as well. I'd like us to hit 100th, 80th would be great also. A year or 2 of actual improvement may help on the recruiting side offensively especially skill positions.
I'm done with the exception of asking you whether Brian should have been retained. Based on everything you've said above, that answer must be yes.
Let's see...only 2 ranked teams they played #13 Penn State and #1 Michigan. Hardly a murderer's row of opponents compared to future schedules that will include Ohio State and the new west coast teams!
They won ten games with the worst offense in the country. Again, Ohio state replaces penn state, tell me about that murders row in 2024
Iowa scored 21 in Bob Commings first win in 1974 at Kinnick.
12-10 Cy-Hawk reboot in 1977
10-7 Iowa win over Nebraska in 1981, 9-7 win in Ann Arbor
12-10 Iowa over Michigan in #1/#2 game in 1985
24-23 Iowa over Michigan in 1990 in Ann Arbor
55-24 Iowa over Ohio State in 2017 in Brian Ferentz's first season as OC
23-21 Iowa over Penn State in 2021
3 shutout losses in 2023-24 for the first time, since 1972.
peace
BirdistheWord
HR Heisman
I doubt many. Though additional strategy changes must be made. Not just play calling. Type of qb, move away from ball control/play not to lose macro approach, etc.
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