How, scientifically, do you track and measure said evolution?
Could the argument be made that we have devolved over time when it comes to caring for others?
What was god purpose for creating humans?
- Thread starter sadiehawkins
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Could the argument be made that we have devolved over time when it comes to caring for others?
Don’t hear what I’m not saying.
What I am asking, is why does it seem morality is implanted in us at birth? And why does that morality seem to be universal over the centuries and across different cultures?
It's pretty clear that most of the world has evolved to have more compassion for their fellow humans. I mean humans born with physical or mental defects aren't just murdered as infants these days. Laws have evolved to be more humane and in line with compassion as well.
Now, I suppose one could argue people care for others less if we look at it from the sense of letting fellow humans starve while we post on $1500 phones on a message board or while businesses rake in billions a year.
Obviously, it's not something that can't be definitively measured but when you think of even hundreds of years ago until now, there seems to be a bit more caring for whether humans die and/or flourish in their lives. Let alone thousands of years ago when I suspect it was survival of the fittest and people cared less about what happened to their "neighbor."
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I think it's no different than what other animals have. They'll naturally take care of their young and their families and their "group." Humans are just more intelligent so they further develop that into caring for individuals outside of that small group.
We expect species that share a genetic code to have shared or similar behaviors. Humans likely experienced selective pressure that encouraged pro social behavior. Individuals that were better adapted for social living were more successful at raising young who were also successful at raising young. The result is that humans have a number of pro social norms and behaviors. They developed cultural tools which reflected and further embedded those norms.
I think Christianity can hold its own on that score. Easily. They can use the Bible to justify all kinds of evil. And they have.
You raise some questions:
- What specific behaviors come out of genetic code? Do those behaviors overrule learned behaviors or can learned behaviors overrule a behavior that is passed genetically?
- What is the scientific evidence for behaviors that originate in someone’s genetic code?
- What do you mean by “selective pressure” that encouraged pro social behavior?
- Who determines what is “pro” or positive behavior? Does an initial determination need to be made that is carried down generations?
- Is any of what you propose observable and able to be scientifically tested?
I get that it sounds like nonsense. But here are a few things I and others think sounds like nonsense:
- The complex intricacies of a human being came about by some random event that happened billions of years ago, but simplest human creation has to have a designer and creator.
- That dictators can murder and enslave millions of people in their lifetime, that mass shooters can kill a bunch of kids before they shoot themselves, that some people can take advantage of others all their life and escape any type of justice because they die and it’s simply “game over” is unacceptable in our mind.
- That we are born, exist on this planet for 50-100 years, progressively deteriorate and waste away until the final day, then get dumped into the ground to rot.
As you suggested, we’ll have to agree to disagree and each live our lives looking forward.
Regarding your co-worker, my guess is that she and her family found comfort because of the belief that a day on this earth is like 1000 years in eternity. Yes, they will have to live out 50-100 years on this planet, but then have peace in eternity. We are not living for this life. Thanks to sin, we know there is going to be a lot of pain and misery. But there is tremendous comfort in knowing there is a great reward waiting.
The alternative when all you have is 50-100 years of this life is emptiness. All the pain and misery exists with no hope. So we medicate ourselves with alcohol, drugs, prescriptions, sex, and many other things to get through the weeks. None of it works, so we have a world more depressed than ever.
Do other animals go to heaven as well? Insects? Or is it just humans?
If the other animals just rot away after a short existence on earth then why is it difficult to believe the same fate of humans?
I’m not sure about animals - will find out someday. Humans could end up rotting too, but what a meaningless and depressing end? I believe the promise that there is more.
I'd rather there be eternal oblivion than a Heaven and me missing out on it.
Why does it have to be meaningless and depressing? Procreation brings meaning. The fact that you've made an impact on fellow humans and, to some extent, future humans brings meaning.
I feel like the majority of religious people have this mindset and are "covering their bases" by "believing." But that isn't belief, right? So they aren't getting in even if it's real.
Certainly but I don't believe that's real and if I fake it, I don't get in anyway.
You can get in by praying and doing good works.
No time to start like the present.
Masstimes.org
Not according to the majority of religions. So they're all wrong?You can get in by praying and doing good works.
No time to start like the present.
Masstimes.org
It depends on the religion. I think there is some truth in all religions.
Most have the Golden Rule, for example.
Sure but I'm talking about entry to heaven. That requires true faith in most religions. Faking it gets you left out.
If God directly had a hand in our creation, Id question his/her/its logic and intelligence
Then when it's proven heaven is real, I'll ask to get in. No reason to waste time and effort on something that I believe to be untrue.
Job was an imperfect man just like you and I.
Satan, not God, was responsible for Job's suffering. God allowed it but it allowed Job to demonstrate his loyalty to God under trial.
He was rewarded tenfold for staying loyal to God throughout that ordeal.
(Job 42:12)
Perhaps, but he refused to do evil so more perfect than most.
His family...7 sons, 3 daughters...all "allowed" to be slaughtered along with his many servants...for a BET? That is not a god worthy of worship.
I see how that may look to some people, however, those people who lost their lives will gain it back again in God's new world. Jesus guaranteed a resurrection from the dead. So Job will see his children again.
But don't lose sight of the point. God did not cause the suffering. He allowed the devil to test Job's integrity. Job stayed loyal despite trial. That was the argument Satan presented: that under hardship man will abandon God.
Well, we have no indication that his children were "good" people. Some of them were likely teenagers and they make all kinds of bad choices. All we know is that they died horrible deaths. I get the "point" but it doesn't change the fact that it was all a bet, "Yeah, you can kill all THOSE people but I'll bet Job sticks with me".
Of course, according to convention, it was a sucker bet because the Christian god - omniscient - already knew the outcome. So he knew Job wouldn't waver and he still "allowed" all the death and destruction. Just so he could say, "told you so".
Bottom line - it's a terrible story that shines a very poor light on the god of the Bible. Even as a kid it didn't make sense.
But the argument he is making is that “morality” is hardwired into a human being from birth.
That is ridiculous.
I would also wonder why you religous people worship a thing( God). That let his son be tortured and hung on a cross to die in the desert heat with birds eating his eye balls out. He didn t even raise his hand to help his son. Now that is a fuhed up parent. I m out u don t protect your children you are garbage. You have to check your brain into beleive in less than 1% of the Bible. You have to flush your common sense down the shitter. That is what religion wants.
Again, my desire is not to take comfort and solace away from anyone.
I just can’t be onboard with an intelligent design when 99% of all species that have lived on this planet have gone extinct. We exist in a physical reality hellbent on killing us.
As far as evolutionary biology is concerned, I am not an expert on how life began as a single-celled organism, developed into eukaryotes, and evolved into all the species we see today over billions of years. None of it is relevant to me because the alternative theory is an earth 6,000 years old that in an instant went to shit because a talking snake convinced the first humans to eat a bad apple. Henceforth children get leukemia and two-week old babies born with birth defects die two weeks later. It makes no sense.
As far as a just system of rewards and punishments after life on this Earth is concerned, of course many would love to see (i.e.) Adolph Hitler punished. The desire for retribution, however, is a silly argument as evidence for the god of theology.
As to the question of a higher form of intelligence in the universe, that is a great question and a very mysterious one.
I saved my wife who went to a catholic school and was raised hardcore catholic from the church and raised my kids without the shackles of religion. I didn't even try, I just led by example. They had their own free will to believe, go to church, do whatever at any time. Instead, they "saw the light" and chose this path on their own. I'm proud as a husband and father to see them grow in this way.
There is substantial evidence and a general consensus that a wide range of behavior is influenced by genetics. Genetics are not determinative. Environment plays a significant role.
Selective pressure are factors which increase or reduce reproductive success in a population.
Prosocial behavior isn't determined by an individual.
In terms of data there is quite a bit this is an entire field of study.
I will link a lecture. There is entire course attached to this. It is a little old but I think it's still relevant particularly on understanding the basics.
I'm curious how people would reconcile other hominid species. Are neanderthals also endowed by God or created in God's image. Neanderthals interbred with humans, they created art, they took care of the elderly, and buried their dead.
Think about this maybe regarding Adam and Eve. Would it not have been hypocritical for God to warn them against a specific sin while already knowing the bad outcome? If God cannot be tried with evil He would not have offered a choice that in reality did not exist.
