Who still believes Covid didn’t come from a lab?
- Thread starter herkyhawk00
- Start date
I'm not curious bc op made it up
There is lots of documented research showing that the wuhan lab was working on Sars cov and were trying to figure out how it could become transmissible to humans.
The first article was published in 2016. If you added covid 19 to that article, no one would question it.
I also linked the article of the miners who died in 2012. This virus was able to jump from bat to human, but not from human to human. This was where many of the coronaviruses originally came from. They found a coronavirus in the cave that was 96% similar to covid. This is the virus that was used for many of the gain of function research.
This gives a direct link how a dangerous but rare virus makes it into the heart of a big city (lab).
We know dangerous coronaviruses were being worked on and studied in the wuhan lab.
Lethal Pneumonia Cases in Mojiang Miners (2012) and the Mineshaft Could Provide Important Clues to the Origin of SARS-CoV-2
With the COVID-19 pandemic reaching its worst heights, people are interested in the origin of SARS-CoV-2. This study started with two important questions: first, were there any similar atypical pneumonia outbreaks, even on a smaller level, reported between ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Whiskey, to throw out crap like Chinese bots is childish. Neither Joe or myself have any affiliation to anything. I would say we seem to be more grounded in a scientific report. You have Hawk82 and Deanglo claiming I didn't read an article that clearly states the most probable cause of Covid is likely a zoonosis event.
The only data point you have is the clinic may have had samples of a similar virus in its lab. What you are ignoring, is that the virus was out in the wild and was likely in other caves and other spots in China than just that cave. You are ignoring the possibilities that it could be a zoonosis event because it doesn't fit your narrative. So what exactly happened to these 3 employees. If they received covid, based on the rates of deaths of the miners you would have suspected that at least 1 one of died had they gotten Covid. That doesn't appear to be the case. As of most of December, the virus appears to be coming from animal to human, and no human to human transference until January. If you are truly going to say they working on weaponizing a disease, don't you think they would have already achieved that in a lab?? The only decent pieces of evidence is they may have had relative virus at the clinic. We do have maybe beneficial evidence, maybe not that 3 workers went to the hospital a month before. As to the actually cases and facts we do have . . . they point to a zoonosis event. Those are the facts Whiskey, no sugar coating just laying it out. If you can't understand that don't know what to say.
Just did a little more research. The employees were know in 2021. The WHO states the tested negative for antibodies. I will concede if the 3 had antibodies.
- Three staff members at a lab in Wuhan fell ill with coronavirus-like symptoms in fall 2019.
- The WHO said the staff tested negative for COVID-19 antibodies,
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NO WAI!!!!
Whiskey and his minions, pushing Chinese propaganda, do not understand the bigger play here.
IF this were a "lab leak", that's 100% fixable. You upgrade your safeguards and procedures for working with viruses.
And China's never ever gonna take responsibility for any "lab leak", anyway. And no one will hold them responsible, either.
But if it's NOT a "lab leak", then it is wet-markets. Which we KNOW have transmitted deadly viruses to humans in the past. And China will NOT close those markets, because there will be food riots. They do not have a developed farming system to feed everyone without them. But those most assuredly pose a serious risk to the rest of the world with the ability to transmit viruses to humans, in how they are run.
So, China is FINE with maintaining a controversy over the source of Covid, because their goal here is keep their wet markets open, at all costs. If wet markets were 100% determined to have caused Covid and its spread to humans, that is a BIG hammer to pressure them to shut those down. They would much rather leave them open, and "hope" they can just close down entire cities the next time another deadly virus jumps to people. Which is a very very risky game to play.
The rest of the world won't want to play along with that - especially if the "most likely" cause this time was wet markets and they were unable to stop this one.
But here's Whiskey and his buddies, letting China off the hook, by pretending they have evidence of a lab leak (which they do not) and ignoring the far more serious risks of wet-markets and zoonotic transmission.
EDIT: should clarify here- China does NOT have to "fully close" wet markets; they need to REGULATE them, and ban the capture of animals who are 'at risk' of being carriers.
And the problem here is, that many of the traps the wet-market vendors set up indiscriminately trap whatever they get. And that means the humans who even release those animals can be at risk of catching/transmitting something. So, this is a really big problem for China to figure out how to regulate AND keep wet markets open for other stuff and not-at-risk species.
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Even CNN has been publishing articles bashing China's lack of transparency from the start. Anyone trusting China driven sourcing on this is an idiot or bot.
All the way back in 2020 and 2021 legit sources knew China was covering up data and information.
1. Silencing Genetic Sequencing. In late December 2019, doctors around Wuhan started noticing people coming in with a strange pneumonia, and began sending patient samples to genomics companies for sequencing. The reports they received back were disturbing – it was a never-before-seen, SARS-like coronavirus. By January 1, provincial health officials instructed these companies to stop testing samples from the Wuhan outbreak and to destroy their remaining specimens. Two days later, China's top health authority ordered genomics labs not to publish any data related to the novel coronavirus.
1. Silencing Genetic Sequencing. In late December 2019, doctors around Wuhan started noticing people coming in with a strange pneumonia, and began sending patient samples to genomics companies for sequencing. The reports they received back were disturbing – it was a never-before-seen, SARS-like coronavirus. By January 1, provincial health officials instructed these companies to stop testing samples from the Wuhan outbreak and to destroy their remaining specimens. Two days later, China's top health authority ordered genomics labs not to publish any data related to the novel coronavirus.
The article you linked gives an opinion that covid was natural origin. But there is zero evidence in the article disproving a lab leak.
Covid has never been found in the wild. The closest relative to covid was found in a cave 500 miles away from wuhan. But it was retrieved by the wihan lab researchers. Gain of function studies have been conducted on these viruses by wuhan scientists since 2012.
A horseshoe bat does not fly 500 plus miles just for fun.
What seems more likely?
1. A coronavirus was obtained from a cave in China, (where multiple people were documented to die from a resp illness from a bat), brought back to the wuhan lab, gain of function studies performed to make the virus transmissible to humans. The us intelligence reported 3 scientists had respiratory illnesses shortly before the wet market out break. These are all documented facts.
Or,
2. Natural origin. Because previous viruses have come from nature. But there is no link to where or how the virus made it to the wuhan market.
Please explain your thought process.
2. Censoring Doctors. Early on in the pandemic, Wuhan's local doctors quickly realized that a novel virus was spreading, and took to social media platforms like WeChat and Weibo to share information with each other. They were soon censored by the Chinese government, and posts related to what was then dubbed "Wuhan SARS' were suppressed. Many doctors were detained, interrogated, and threatened with prosecution. "Chinese scientists and physicians took risks, and their efforts saved lives," Gottlieb wrote.
There's zero evidence in the article disproving a wet-market spread. In fact, there's quite a bit more evidence pointing to that instead of a "lab leak".
Yes; we know this.
But, the "lab leak" theory would have meant those social media transmissions would have been online a month or more earlier. And would have already been archived and impossible to hide by the time they realized there even was a pandemic.
China didn't hide those social media posts to keep them from the rest of the world - they did it to minimize the mass panic and social uprising within their own country. To hide it from their own citizens.
Of particular interest here in this very thread -
3. Deploying Social Media Bots. According to ProPublica, more than ten thousand Chinese government-linked accounts on Twitter were used to cast doubt on early reports related to the outbreak in Wuhan.
3. Deploying Social Media Bots. According to ProPublica, more than ten thousand Chinese government-linked accounts on Twitter were used to cast doubt on early reports related to the outbreak in Wuhan.
so your saying politics are the reason it wasn't from a lab? lol. I agree politics are why we don't have a straight answer.
The wet market is irrelevant to the lab vs. natural origin theory. I think it is clear that covid was spread in the wet market. The big question is what brought covid to the wet market in the first place. There is no arguement that a market with lots of people in close proximity who are touching food, exchanging money, is the making for a super spreader event.
6. Refusing to Share the Coronavirus' Genetic Sequence. When the genetic sequence of the coronavirus was first shared widely in early January, it was a heroic, rogue Chinese researcher, not the government, who did so. Dr. Zhang Yongzhen was directed not to release the information, but frustrated with what he perceived as irresponsibility by government officials, he defied their order. Within hours, Zhang's lab was shut down by the Shanghai Municipal Health Commission for "rectification".
7. Not Sharing Virus Samples. Very early on, global researchers were clamoring for Chinese officials to share samples of the novel coronavirus so they could evaluate it and begin developing diagnostic tests, vaccines, and therapeutics. Government officials never did. "Access to those samples at the outset could have helped the world prepare," Gottlieb wrote. "And without the source strains, it would be impossible to determine with any certainty the virus's origin."
7. Not Sharing Virus Samples. Very early on, global researchers were clamoring for Chinese officials to share samples of the novel coronavirus so they could evaluate it and begin developing diagnostic tests, vaccines, and therapeutics. Government officials never did. "Access to those samples at the outset could have helped the world prepare," Gottlieb wrote. "And without the source strains, it would be impossible to determine with any certainty the virus's origin."
LOLWUT?
Where did I mention "politics"?
The REASON that China wants this controversy to keep running is that it prevents any focus on shutting down their wet-markets. That's policy, not politics.
No.
The wet market is critical here.
Because we KNOW those have transmitted viruses in the past, which killed lots of people locally, but didn't turn into global pandemics.
This likely says more about the quality of the testing rather than the ability to determine if the person had covid or not.
There is documented proof that these tests are not 100% accurate.
COVID-19 Antibody Tests and Their Limitations
COVID-19, caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, has developed into a global health crisis, causing over 2 million deaths and changing people’s daily life the world over. Current main-stream diagnostic methods in the laboratory include nucleic acid PCR ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
No shit.
But they tested multiple people, and the more tests they run, the more likely they'd find something.
That fact doesn't play well with your conspiracy. And it IS the data we have.
Its not about the wet markets. There is a lot at stake for the research community if this came from a lab. Gain of function would receive a lot more attention. Labs would receive a lot more criticism. No one would want high level bio labs in their city.
There is big money involved in all of this. As you admitted above, the scientists were silenced. Why? and who was silencing them?
This is not just about the science, this is about the politics/policies (whatever you want to call it). If everyone believes it came from the wild, then wet markets don't have to change. labs don't receive any criticism and in fact may receive more funding for gain of function research to help "prevent" the next pandemic.
what exactly do you think is a conspiracy about about what I am saying? Most of what I have said is all in research articles or released by US Intelligence.
Please detail what you think is conspiracy
You're ignoring data.
No Covid tests came up positive on your "alleged" sick Wuhan scientists.
China wouldn't give two shits about shutting down all their wet markets if they actually believed there was a verified connection...
Not remotely true.
They have ALREADY SEEN SARS show up due to wet markets. And they did NOTHING.
They are desperately afraid of civil unrest, which food shortages will cause.
Shutting down wet markets is the FASTEST WAY to civil unrest for the authoritarian Chinese government.
you are stating then to just believe whatever you want to belief . . . go ahead and live in your fairyland
Considering everything they've endured with this virus, it would be easier to take control of food distribution and eliminate the negative aspects of the current wet market model,.. They don't do this because they don't really believe that the virus issue is tied to the wet markets...
What would be the odds the 3 individuals who had Covid would all test negative for antibody test.This likely says more about the quality of the testing rather than the ability to determine if the person had covid or not.
There is documented proof that these tests are not 100% accurate.
COVID-19 Antibody Tests and Their Limitations
COVID-19, caused by the SARS-CoV-2 virus, has developed into a global health crisis, causing over 2 million deaths and changing people’s daily life the world over. Current main-stream diagnostic methods in the laboratory include nucleic acid PCR ...
Tests that specifically detected IgG or IgM antibodies were the most accurate and, when testing people from 21 days after first symptoms, they detected 93% of people with COVID-19. Tests gave false positive results for 1% of those without COVID-19.Nov 17, 2022
No offense with 3 separate people who you claim all had Covid, you realize that would be like winning the lottery.
No; it is not.
It is a MAJOR undertaking, requiring the importation of billions in new food and transport.
They are not set up for that right now.
They may be MOTIVATED to do it now. But w/o international pressure, they may be more motivated to just wall-off whatever city a new virus sets foot in. And "gamble"
So....3 independent tests. 93% accuracy for false negative
That's -(0.07 x 0.07 x 0.07) +1 = 99.966% certain they DID NOT GET EXPOSED to Covid.
(this is 1-p statistical odds of the event occurring, in case anyone wants to look that up)
Or, < 0.03% chance ONE of them was.
Yet, here our Resident Idiots are, using those 3 sick people as "proof".
Better odds of winning several Lotto Scratch cards than that...
Bullshit,.. They could do it right now with the food sources they have, by properly managing their use and distribution. Eliminate the dangerous stuff and institute controls for the manageable items,.. Vast majority of their foodstuffs are safe and could remain unaffected...
No; they cannot
That is why they need them OPEN.
And people want to eat their traditionally captured, dangerous animal foods.
Reports show that the three lab workers got sick in Mid-late November 2019. When did they test the 3 lab workers? You are posting the effectiveness of the covid tests in 2022, not 2019 when they got sick.
I read a report that they tested negative for antibodies in March 2020. It is well known that antibodies wane with time. This is why we have been told we all need frequent covid booster shots. There is also the possibility that virus the researchers had in Nov. 2019 was not the same as what was spread world wild. The virus may have mutated once it reached the humans. If this is the case, the researchers may not have developed the same antibodies as what was being tested for in March 2020. These are just guesses though, because I do not have all the information on the researchers and the illness they had in 2019 nor the test results. It sure would be nice if China would release all that info though wouldn't it.
I think 3 reseachers getting sick all around the same time indicates something was going on. Which was then followed by a global pandemic. 3 coronavirus researchers getting sick with similar symptoms to covid <6 weeks before a global pandemic is quite the coincidence.
You think these dummies understand statistics? Fox News doesn't teach them that.
Why would anyone test them for covid if covid wasn't even a thing at the time they were sick? Do you think a covid test was even invented at the time of their illness?
Neither one of us have all the information about the infection of these 3 individuals, the symptoms, the test results, or their recovery. For some reason China wont release this information.
Hawk82 your antibodies wane with time, they don't become extinct. There would have been enough to trigger an antibody test 5 months out when they took them in March April of 2020.
You continue to give reasons why china would want to cover up the true origins. It is all political garbage and is not based on science.
COVID wasn't a thing but coronavirus was.
They would've popped positive for coronavirus on a PCR test if they had COVID.
