Why did Gilman shoot?

[PrairieHawk24]

There should be ZERO conflict when watching the USA rep wrestling in the World Championships. As long as they represent the US, they have my support 100% with no regard where they went to college.

If you think for one second that Gilman or Spencer are worried about Fix sitting out until Final X, then you don’t understand their mindset. They most likely have to beat him 2/3 regardless if it’s at Final X or Olympic Team Trials.

 

[Descat1]

Vodka


Vodka, Fix is out and didn’t medal. I struggle with whether to root for Fix. Seems like a good guy, but he took The spot at 57kg from an Iowa wrestler, so I’m conflicted.

I'm not conflicted at all. FLO is over the top with him and promotes him excessively. This has been going on for years. He does well and they blow it up, he loses and it's crickets or it's why he was robbed. Compare the coverage of his losses to when Spencer Lee loses. Or when he runs to the edge and does nothing for an entire match. He's a great wrestler, but he has a very limited offense.

I always root for anybody that is from the USA and I wish he had won simply because he was representing the USA and we need to qualify the weight, but since he didn't, the obvious fact is now it's a level playing field for the trials and that's a good thing for two Iowa 57kg wrestlers that are contenders. Let the qualification process for the Olympics begin....

 

[crablegs1]

I'm not conflicted at all. FLO is over the top with him and promotes him excessively. This has been going on for years. He does well and they blow it up, he loses and it's crickets or it's why he was robbed. Compare the coverage of his losses to when Spencer Lee loses. Or when he runs to the edge and does nothing for an entire match. He's a great wrestler, but he has a very limited offense.

I always root for anybody that is from the USA and I wish he had won simply because he was representing the USA and we need to qualify the weight, but since he didn't, the obvious fact is now it's a level playing field for the trials and that's a good thing for two Iowa 57kg wrestlers that are contenders. Let the qualification process for the Olympics begin....

He is on the world team as a freshman in college, beating a world silver and 5th to do it. I think the hype is justified. Let’s not pretend like there has not been an even amount of hype for Spencer. They literally flew to his house to cover his commitment. Have they done that for anyone else?

 

[IAChief32]

He is on the world team as a freshman in college, beating a world silver and 5th to do it. I think the hype is justified. Let’s not pretend like there has not been an even amount of hype for Spencer. They literally flew to his house to cover his commitment. Have they done that for anyone else?

*RS Freshman year. Also, Fix has more international experience than many senior guys. This his sixth or seventh world level?

In the same time period, Spencer has won two NCAA titles. He has justified his hype.

Right now on Twitter, Willie is comparing Fix to Kolat...as if losing on a bit of a sketchy call in the 2nd round even comes to the same freaking country of pain heaped upon Kolat. All this to give an out for Fix’s lack of scoring. From the same people who preach that in a 50/50 situation, award the offensive guy.

 

[ss7]

*RS Freshman year. Also, Fix has more international experience than many senior guys. This his sixth or seventh world level?

In the same time period, Spencer has won two NCAA titles. He has justified his hype.

Right now on Twitter, Willie is comparing Fix to Kolat...as if losing on a bit of a sketchy call in the 2nd round even comes to the same freaking country of pain heaped upon Kolat. All this to give an out for Fix’s lack of scoring. From the same people who preach that in a 50/50 situation, award the offensive guy.

Haven't they both earned their hype?

 

[IAChief32]

Haven't they both earned their hype?

Nothing against Fix...he very well might beat both Spencer and Gilman at trials. He is pretty dang good but Spencer has to win titles to get the adulation this guy gets from Flo...especially Willie.

 

[crablegs1]

Nothing against Fix...he very well might beat both Spencer and Gilman at trials. He is pretty dang good but Spencer has to win titles to get the adulation this guy gets from Flo...especially Willie.

Silly, I forgot US Open, WTT, Final X, and Junior worlds aren’t considered titles.

Both guys are justified in their hype. Daton has had more success at a higher level than Spencer.

 

[sstark46]

Both guys are justified in their hype. Daton has had more success at a higher level than Spencer.

Spencer has 3 age level world golds; Daton has 1. Spencer has 2 NCAA titles; Daton has 0

 

[MSeil]

Just put uhm on ignore

Better yet wrestle

 

[pablow]

Spencer has 3 age level world golds; Daton has 1. Spencer has 2 NCAA titles, Dayton has 0

Don't confuse craplegs with facts.

 

[IAChief32]

Silly, I forgot US Open, WTT, Final X, and Junior worlds aren’t considered titles.

Both guys are justified in their hype. Daton has had more success at a higher level than Spencer.

<Terry Brands slap and says> Those are just qualifying tournaments horse.

To Recap:

Lee: 1 Cadet and 2 Junior world titles plus 2 NCAA titles. Has not entered a senior or U23 event. Wins a title by stomping a mudhole in "the fields" ass but going into the next NCAA, it's meh.

Fix: Fix has a 3 or 4 age level bronzes plus a Jr World Title, makes the senior team and is picked to win Worlds right out of the gate despite his most recent age level finishes being bronze and DNP.

One of these is not like the others. Oh and just to be clear, I would be very surprised to see Spencer win a Olympic or World title when he makes the team right out of the gate.

 

[Exo]

If Spencer was actively wrestling freestyle and competing in worlds, he'd be getting more praise. The fact is, Lee isn't competing in freestyle, Fix is. Let's revisit this topic in April.

 

[crablegs1]

<Terry Brands slap and says> Those are just qualifying tournaments horse.

To Recap:

Lee: 1 Cadet and 2 Junior world titles plus 2 NCAA titles. Has not entered a senior or U23 event. Wins a title by stomping a mudhole in "the fields" ass but going into the next NCAA, it's meh.

Fix: Fix has a 3 or 4 age level bronzes plus a Jr World Title, makes the senior team and is picked to win Worlds right out of the gate despite his most recent age level finishes being bronze and DNP.

One of these is not like the others. Oh and just to be clear, I would be very surprised to see Spencer win a Olympic or World title when he makes the team right out of the gate.

So in your world winning NCAA > making senior team? Just checking.

 

[pablow]

If Spencer was actively wrestling freestyle and competing in worlds, he'd be getting more praise. The fact is, Lee isn't competing in freestyle, Fix is. Let's revisit this topic in April.

Actually if Lee had competed and come back with bronze the last two years (as Fix did), all we'd be hearing is how the Terry and Tom ruined Spencer. We all know how this works.

 

[sstark46]

So in your world winning NCAA > making senior team? Just checking.

Winning NCAA titles > not winning NCAA titles

 

[crablegs1]

Winning NCAA titles > not winning NCAA titles

Answer my question.

 

[Descat1]

So in your world winning NCAA > making senior team? Just checking.

Both had the same opportunity last year and Fix lost to the guy Spencer dominated 5-1. Just saying... My whole point is the bias is so obvious. I just listened to the FRL and this came after my earlier post and the guys at FLO were talking his foot this and foot that, I knew they would point to something other than getting beat and they do it every time he loses... I don't dislike the kid, again, I said he's a great wrestler, but the bias is uncanny and undeniable. Willy last year posted, Fix wins it all after he beat an Ethan Lizak that often underperforms during the season and seemed to have a knack for turning it on at NCAA. Spencer technical failed Ethan, during the regular season, and no one from FLO posted, "my pick to win it all." It's just a bias that is evident. And speaking of Spencer, FLO railed on Spencer last year...Did an entire FRL about ducking (which was BS) and an entire FRL about fading, this went on the whole year etc., Fix runs an entire match, doesn't do anything to win the match and then FLO cried about the head gear pull. How about going after the win or taking some legit shots. That's my point. It's a double standard when it comes to FIX and everybody else. Willie is proving my point by comparing Fix's match at Worlds to the Kolat saga and that's not even close, but it's not a surprise, because FLO has their personal favorites. Yes, they cover Spencer, but last year there was more negative banter than positive given what the kid did.

 

[Exo]

Both had the same opportunity last year and Fix lost to the guy Spencer dominated 5-1. Just saying... My whole point is the bias is so obvious. I just listened to the FRL and this came after my earlier post and the guys at FLO were talking his foot this and foot that, I knew they would point to something other than getting beat and they do it every time he loses... I don't dislike the kid, again, I said he's a great wrestler, but the bias is uncanny and undeniable. Willy last year posted, Fix wins it all after he beat an Ethan Lizak that often underperforms during the season and seemed to have a knack for turning it on at NCAA. Spencer technical failed Ethan, during the regular season, and no one from FLO posted, "my pick to win it all." It's just a bias that is evident. And speaking of Spencer, FLO railed on Spencer last year...Did an entire FRL about ducking (which was BS) and an entire FRL about fading, this went on the whole year etc., Fix runs an entire match, doesn't do anything to win the match and then FLO cried about the head gear pull. How about going after the win or taking some legit shots. That's my point. It's a double standard when it comes to FIX and everybody else. Willie is proving it right not comparing his match at Worlds to the Kolat saga and that's not even close, but it's not a surprise, because FLO has their personal favorites. Yes, they cover Spencer, but last year there was more negative banter than positive given what the kid did.

Why do we care so much on Flo's opinion on this??

 

[IAChief32]

If Spencer was actively wrestling freestyle and competing in worlds, he'd be getting more praise. The fact is, Lee isn't competing in freestyle, Fix is. Let's revisit this topic in April.

My point isn't that Spencer doesn't get praise for stuff he is not entered in. Fix beating Gilman in a very closely contested 2 of 3 plus NATO and Ramos the year before are very good wins. Earlier in this thread, I spoke to how Daton looked when he won the Junior World title in Paris...dude was a killer in that tourney. If that guy shows up on a consistent basis, he is going to be tough to beat.

But c'mon...Willie was sounding the Fix as NCAA champ when he beat Lizak in November last year...lol. He took an L to Mickey Phillippi and looks underwhelming against avg competition and a few of those guys chose him to win a title in his first year. When he didn't, it wasn't because of his lack of offense but because of a headgear pull that they reviewed even though they shouldn't have. Lee loses to eventual AA Bresser in a crap call that he couldn't challenge and splits with NATO (loses in a last few secs TD) ...dude is the field despite pretty much dominating everybody else.

 

[crablegs1]

Both had the same opportunity last year and Fix lost to the guy Spencer dominated 5-1. Just saying... My whole point is the bias is so obvious. I just listened to the FRL and this came after my earlier post and the guys at FLO were talking his foot this and foot that, I knew they would point to something other than getting beat and they do it every time he loses... I don't dislike the kid, again, I said he's a great wrestler, but the bias is uncanny and undeniable. Willy last year posted, Fix wins it all after he beat an Ethan Lizak that often underperforms during the season and seemed to have a knack for turning it on at NCAA. Spencer technical failed Ethan, during the regular season, and no one from FLO posted, "my pick to win it all." It's just a bias that is evident. And speaking of Spencer, FLO railed on Spencer last year...Did an entire FRL about ducking (which was BS) and an entire FRL about fading, this went on the whole year etc., Fix runs an entire match, doesn't do anything to win the match and then FLO cried about the head gear pull. How about going after the win or taking some legit shots. That's my point. It's a double standard when it comes to FIX and everybody else. Willie is proving it right not comparing his match at Worlds to the Kolat saga and that's not even close, but it's not a surprise, because FLO has their personal favorites. Yes, they cover Spencer, but last year there was more negative banter than positive given what the kid did.

I guess I have to disagree. I agree that the do like Fix a lot, but think that is justified. He is an extremely special talent. The only other guy I can think of that made the world team as a freshman in recent memory is Snyder. Who is the last person before him to do it? He didn’t go to college, but Cejudo? Seems like this is a bigger deal than winning an NCAA title.

Spencer is also a special talent, and I think they hype him a lot as well. He had struggles this past year, and it is a big deal when someone as good as Spencer struggles. That’s why they talked about it.

 

[sstark46]

Answer my question.

I mean, yeah making the senior team is a huge accomplishment in and of itself. But the end result is that Daton has now won exactly one more match at the Senior level World Championships than Spencer has, while Spencer has won many more matches at other age level championships

 

[crablegs1]

I get it, Iowa fans are jealous of Fix and the coverage he gets. Spencer is arguably just as good, but for whatever reason hasn’t tested himself at the highest level yet, while Daton has proven to be a legitimate contender at that level. As if today, Daton has reached a higher level of achievement than Spencer.

I hope Spencer makes a run for 2020, and I hope he is our rep at 57kg because he is the most fun guy to watch and I don’t like Daton’s style.

 

[IAChief32]

So in your world winning NCAA > making senior team? Just checking.

Without a doubt because you set a goal and attained it. There are two things for an elite American wrestler to check off...World and NCAA champ. If just being on the world team for a shot to maybe win it is the only thing that really matters, what the hell are Daton, Spencer, Gable, Mark Hall etc doing in college? Very few can win both at the same time and maybe Daton will be one of those guys like John Smith or Kyle...time will tell.

 

[Spaceman Spifff]

I guess I have to disagree. I agree that the do like Fix a lot, but think that is justified. He is an extremely special talent. The only other guy I can think of that made the world team as a freshman in recent memory is Snyder. Who is the last person before him to do it? He didn’t go to college, but Cejudo? Seems like this is a bigger deal than winning an NCAA title.

Spencer is also a special talent, and I think they hype him a lot as well. He had struggles this past year, and it is a big deal when someone as good as Spencer struggles. That’s why they talked about it.

Fix was 21 when he made the world team, which is more relevant than what class he's in in college. He redshirted one year in college and must've been held back a grade once before college.

 

[ss7]

Without a doubt because you set a goal and attained it. There are two things for an elite American wrestler to check off...World and NCAA champ. If just being on the world team for a shot to maybe win it is the only thing that really matters, what the hell are Daton, Spencer, Gable, Mark Hall etc doing in college? Very few can win both at the same time and maybe Daton will be one of those guys like John Smith or Kyle...time will tell.

That is an interesting view. Never really thought of it that way.

Who would you - in general - say has had the more accomplished wrestling career: Thomas Gilman or Cenzo Joseph?

At first glance, I think I would have said Gilman. But now I'm not sure.

 

[crablegs1]

Without a doubt because you set a goal and attained it. There are two things for an elite American wrestler to check off...World and NCAA champ. If just being on the world team for a shot to maybe win it is the only thing that really matters, what the hell are Daton, Spencer, Gable, Mark Hall etc doing in college? Very few can win both at the same time and maybe Daton will be one of those guys like John Smith or Kyle...time will tell.

Maybe a degree will be helpful?

 

[crablegs1]

Fix was 21 when he made the world team, which is more relevant than what class he's in in college. He redshirted one year in college and must've been held back a grade once before college.

Tell me other guys 21 and under that have made it?

 

[crablegs1]

If just being on the world team for a shot to maybe win it is the only thing that really matters, what the hell are Daton, Spencer, Gable, Mark Hall etc doing in college? Very few can win both at the same time and maybe Daton will be one of those guys like John Smith or Kyle...time will tell.

Who said it is the only thing that matters. I just said it is a bigger accomplishment than NCAAs. That doesn’t mean NCAA isn’t an accomplishment.

Your point is almost like saying, what are these guys doing in high school, when NCAA is the only thing that matters?

 

[Chopper25]

I get it, Iowa fans are jealous of Fix and the coverage he gets. Spencer is arguably just as good, but for whatever reason hasn’t tested himself at the highest level yet, while Daton has proven to be a legitimate contender at that level. As if today, Daton has reached a higher level of achievement than Spencer.

I hope Spencer makes a run for 2020, and I hope he is our rep at 57kg because he is the most fun guy to watch and I don’t like Daton’s style.

I've heard Gilman say he's been humbled working out with Spencer, so does that make Spencer a legitimate contender too? Daton didn't place at worlds, so what makes him a legitimate contender? Because he wrestled at worlds? Or lost a close match to Japan? If you were saying Fix is a legitimate contender to represent the US at 57 kg in the Olympics, I agree. I would also add 10 other guys to that list. The weight needs to be qualified first though.

 

[crablegs1]

I've heard Gilman say he's been humbled working out with Spencer, so does that make Spencer a legitimate contender too? Daton didn't place at worlds, so what makes him a legitimate contender? Because he wrestled at worlds? Or lost a close match to Japan? If you were saying Fix is a legitimate contender to represent the US at 57 kg in the Olympics, I agree. I would also add 10 other guys to that list. The weight needs to be qualified first though.

Spencer is no doubt a legitimate contender.

 

[IAChief32]

Who said it is the only thing that matters. I just said it is a bigger accomplishment than NCAAs. That doesn’t mean NCAA isn’t an accomplishment.

Your point is almost like saying, what are these guys doing in high school, when NCAA is the only thing that matters?

Faulty logic because these are two different styles one of which is way more popular in the U.S. College wrestling is king. Daton Fix lost to Phillipi and Suriano. I can't see that happening in free. If college went to freestyle, you'd have a point.

That is an interesting view. Never really thought of it that way.

Who would you - in general - say has had the more accomplished wrestling career: Thomas Gilman or Cenzo Joseph?

At first glance, I think I would have said Gilman. But now I'm not sure.

There was a whole documentary that touched on this subject...Terry. Tom won 3 NCAA titles, one world and an olympic. Terry won two NCAA titles, two world titles plus an Olympic Bronze (which he didn't keep). Yet Tom has always been viewed as having the better career.

 

[Spaceman Spifff]

Tell me other guys 21 and under that have made it?

I'll let you do the google searches to come up with that list as my research team is off today...let's just agree calling him a freshman in college is disingenuous.

 

[sstark46]

That is an interesting view. Never really thought of it that way.

Who would you - in general - say has had the more accomplished wrestling career: Thomas Gilman or Cenzo Joseph?

At first glance, I think I would have said Gilman. But now I'm not sure.

I think you'd have to go with Cenzo, and I think Thomas would likely agree with that

 

[pablow]

I know Daniel Dennis would take an NCAA title over making the world team. Those NCAA championship are tough to get. Real tough. I think sometimes we forget how hard it is to win a college title.

 

[crablegs1]

I'll let you do the google searches to come up with that list as my research team is off today...let's just agree calling him a freshman in college is disingenuous.

It’s factual. But regardless, my point is that he made the team at a very young age. So if you want to argue with that he’s 21, fine, but my point is the same.

 

[Exo]

I know Daniel Dennis would take an NCAA title over making the world team. Those NCAA championship are tough to get. Real tough. I think sometimes we forget how hard it is to win a college title.

Idk, far more people win NCAA titles than compete in the Worlds/Olympics...

 

[Ihawkd9times]

CP's favorite team is Iowa, try focusing on him instead of letting Willie get your knickers in a bunch.

 

[crablegs1]

I know Daniel Dennis would take an NCAA title over making the world team. Those NCAA championship are tough to get. Real tough. I think sometimes we forget how hard it is to win a college title.

That’s fine if that is what he would chose. It probably has something to do with the crushing way he lost in the finals. Regardless of what he would personally choose, it is undeniable which is a higher level of accomplishment.

 

[ss7]

Faulty logic because these are two different styles one of which is way more popular in the U.S. College wrestling is king. Daton Fix lost to Phillipi and Suriano. I can't see that happening in free. If college went to freestyle, you'd have a point.




There was a whole documentary that touched on this subject...Terry. Tom won 3 NCAA titles, one world and an olympic. Terry won two NCAA titles, two world titles plus an Olympic Bronze (which he didn't keep). Yet Tom has always been viewed as having the better career.

I'm not sure that's the same comparison. Both guys did each thing (NCAA and world titles). The only difference is how many times they did them.

I've always viewed making the senior freestyle national team as "harder" (for lack of a better word) than winning an NCAA championship. One is age/eligibility restricted, and one is not. If you are on the world team, you can legitimately say you are the best freestyle wrestler at that weight in the country. That's not true of an NCAA championship.

 

[Ihawkd9times]

Crablegs

Is it better to win the Heisman trophy and never get drafted or get drafted in the first round and play one year as a starter in the NFL but end up not doing so well and then replaced? I mean NFL starter is a higher level right?

Id rather be known as a Heisman trophy winner or an NCAA champion.

Pecking order
1. Olympic Champion
2. World Champion
3. 4x NCAA Champion
4. Hodge award winner
5. NCAA champion
6. Made the world team.
7. Won State
148. Won States