Or it’s a crapshoot. It always has been and always will be. Especially if you are a team full of three and two star recruits.
Why is sweet 16 the benchmark?
- Thread starter IAHawkGrad2000
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The NCAA tournament has always been a crapshoot even with four and five star recruits. That’s why a perfect bracket will never happen.
A coach that has a team like Iowa that can't come up with in-game adjustments enough to put his players in position to beat a 6th place A10 team, with or without one of the country's best players, in the most important game of his career, is not worth his salt.
Not sure what your point is? The OP was asking for reasons why the sweet 16 is the benchmark. Is you point that it shouldn't be a benchmark because you think the tournament is a crapshoot?
then your turn to explain it to us.
you already agreed we’d have the single best player AND that we’d be favored. But yet I’m living in a fantasy land suggesting we’d win with fresh legs?
seriously, I think you’ve got some great opinions but I’m not getting this. Explain why you’d agree to these things but expect iowa to lose?
Keegan played the most minutes in BTT and may have been tired + he hurt his ankles. He ended up having a good game by anyone else's standards, but far short of what he has done this season to carry iowa.
Rest of the team probably averaged 20 min/game in BTT and since Richmond had exactly the same scenario, I don't think it is logical to use BTT as excuse. I do think seeing guys like JBO going on his twitter storm and talking to Rome was bad sign....I also didn't like to hear Connor complaining abou some high school kids chanting "Fire Fran" and what an effing travesty that was.
They shot poorly, got beat on backdoors/inbound plays for 5 baskets/FT opportunities and they didn't get stops on defense at end of the game to pull out the win. They weren't ready to play and didn't have any sense of desperation to win.
We simply didn’t make shots that we usually make. Don’t overthink it.
A team with two and three star recruits who was picked 10th in the league?
HawkLogic, there’s definitely logic in that post. I just felt like they looked a little out of it, didn’t have the emotion or intensity I saw in the last couple games, etc. I’m definitely not attributing the whole loss to fatigue. There are plenty of other factors worth blaming too.
There may be a handful of coaches I would take over Fran. What he accomplished with players no one expected to sniff the tournament is amazing. His teams are among the most entertaining in the country every season and even that isn’t enough to satisfy some fans.
That reply nailed it!
Fran should get major credit for identifying the talent in Luka Garza and Keegan Murray.
To have that caliber of 1st team All-American players in two straight seasons and then win a combined total of 1 tournament game is a massive underachievement.
25-30 years from now, a younger generation will ask why.
many of us have been pointing this out already when all of the Fran fanboys say “look at what we lost from last years team!”
the people saying it are thinking only of this year vs expectations. I get that, but the other side of the coin is wondering why that supposedly stacked team got embarrassed in the second round?
Because we all dig alliteration but we also don't dare hope for an Elite Eight or Final Four appearance.
If this team is remembered 25-30 years from now it will be remembered for how fun the ride was and as one of the best teams in Iowa basketball history. At least by people that know anything about basketball.
I'm glad you came here to put things in perspective.
Unlike most Iowa fans, I have very little passion toward ISU, not being from the State and knowing very few people associated with the Cyclones. I probably couldn't name more than 5 players they've had this century.
When I think of ISU basketball, I think of 2 things - That '00 team that lost to MSU in the Elite 8, and Hampton. That's it. That's the way it is. I know they've won multiple conference and conference tourney titles, but I couldn't tell you when they happened or anything else about those seasons.
It's the nature of the beast. It's how you build a legacy. In all honesty, I'll probably forget about Garza and Murray eventually; I have a hard time remembering most players on our great '06 team...but I remember Northwestern State, and I'll always remember Richmond. Just the way it is.
This team has nothing to be embarrassed about. One game doesn’t make a season a failure.
Sorry. As I just posted above, I've already forgotten most of the players on the '06 roster (only 16 years ago) and couldn't tell you very much about that season. My guess is that there was probably a time when I thought it was a "fun ride" and I was watching "one of the best teams in Iowa basketball history." But those memories have greatly faded....But I'll always remember NW St. like it was yesterday. There's nothing wrong with me. It's not that I don't "know anything about basketball." It's just the way it is, fair or not.
Um, yeah, it pretty much does; history proves it.
It sounds like you and the players' mothers will be getting together annually to watch that BTN Journey BTT championship tear-jerker video.
People are different. You seem to focus on the negative and big losses (for both ISU and Iowa). There are others who will focus on the good stuff. It's OK to have different views/memories. Cheers
I'm not going to argue that people aren't different, but I think my point of view is the norm. I don't focus on negatives; I remember big moments. There are no bigger moments in college basketball than the NCAA Tourney. I remember our last Sweet 16 team very well; I can still see Dean Oliver's behind the back full-court pass to Jess Settles to essentially seal it vs. Arkansas. Unfortunately, there has been very little good to remember in the NCAA Tourney for Iowa since then. I'll remember the comeback to force OT vs. Tennessee in the #10-#2 game, but just about every other memory is heart-breaking and trumps any good moments that may have otherwise occurred.People are different. You seem to focus on the negative and big losses (for both ISU and Iowa). There are others who will focus on the good stuff. It's OK to have different views/memories. Cheers
If you're able to look back on this season and only see the fun moments and not be bothered by the excruciating thud in the Tourney, that's certainly good for you, but I think for most of us the '22 season will always be defined by the Richmond game, and like it or not, the NW St, Oregon and Richmond games define Iowa basketball on a national level this century more than anything they have otherwise accomplished.
Google "2006 Iowa men's basketball," "2021 Iowa men's basketball" and "2022 Iowa men's basketball" and compare the number of feel-good stories to the NCAA Tourney stories.
That 2006 team had a good season with a record very similar to this years team. They finished 15th in the last AP poll before the tournament compared to 16th for this team. The seasons both ended in disappointment but yet were different. Iowa lost to NW St. on a fadeaway 3 pointer as time expired to lose by 1 point. A uncharacteristic horrible shooting game of 6 for 29 from 3 caused Iowa to lose by 4 points to Richmond. Both losses were more of bad luck than poor coaching.
Didn't try it, huh?
If you're too scared, then Google 2018 Virginia men's basketball. You'll find a lot more articles about UMBC than you will about the conference championship. That's "history." Sorry again.
P.S. - What's your favorite part of the BTN BTT video? I don't remember it that much. Was JBo already rage tweeting or did he wait until he was in the locker room?
Now you want to rag on the Big Ten’s all time 3 point leader. Do all us real fans a favor and find another team to support.
Right here you point out they lacked emotion, intensity. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. Is some of it fatigue? Probably, but Richmond had also played 4 games in 4 days, yet they looked like they were pumped up the entire game. Iowa didn’t. Iowa looked like the BTT was their finish line, and just assumed they’d beat Richmond.
Denial never ends well. Scouting must have missed Richmond’s inbounds plays. Coaching has always been and will continue to be the downfall for our current coaching staff.
We lost mainly because their point guard completely outplayed our point guards.
Richmond wasn't exactly "fresh". They were coming off 4 straight games in their conference tourney... just like Iowa. That excuse doesn't play.
Back to the OP’s question……..
Sweet 16’s are important because it adds a measure of respectability and legitimacy to a team. Like it or not, teams are judged by how they do in the NCAA tournament. Having 20 win seasons, players in the NBA, a national player of the year, and a conference tournament championship basically are meaningless and irrelevant if you always win 0 or 1 game in the NCAA.
Sweet 16’s are important because it adds a measure of respectability and legitimacy to a team. Like it or not, teams are judged by how they do in the NCAA tournament. Having 20 win seasons, players in the NBA, a national player of the year, and a conference tournament championship basically are meaningless and irrelevant if you always win 0 or 1 game in the NCAA.
So you were asleep during and the days following the BTT when every major sports outlet was drooling over Iowa? "Completely irrelevant", really?
I'd also say that it is the next step in the ladder of expectations....and Frans been stuck on it for awhile.
When he was hired... I just wanted to be competitive and have a winning record..
Then an NCAA tournament berth..
Then an NCAA tournament WIN.
Now we've been waiting for 2 wins.... And missed 2 great opportunities in 2 years.
Simple as that.
Hindsight...the closest was a few years ago when we went to OT in the 2nd round.
When he was hired... I just wanted to be competitive and have a winning record..
Then an NCAA tournament berth..
Then an NCAA tournament WIN.
Now we've been waiting for 2 wins.... And missed 2 great opportunities in 2 years.
Simple as that.
Hindsight...the closest was a few years ago when we went to OT in the 2nd round.
Doing something more meaningful with his life than continually posting on an opposing team's message board.
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Dude it’s a free message board where we’re discussing out thoughts on the game. Get out of here with that white knight stuff
Iowa took the lead because PMac hit 2 3's as a part of an 11 pt run. It also included Tony attacking the basket for a tough layup and a FT. So, both parts of the game resulted in points. I don't think they ever stopped trying to get the ball inside.
Iowa was never "lazy" in that game. Perhaps a little tired, perhaps a little uninspired. It appeared they were playing very good defense for about 24 seconds, and then Richmond would get a bucket. Also possible some fatigue.
"Relying" on the 3's was a huge part of their success this year but they didn't fall - but, they also missed a ton of inside shots as well.
Yes, Iowa failed to get to the S16 again - 23 years in a row. But this loss would have hurt just as much if they had made it to the S16 last year.
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