Why is sweet 16 the benchmark?

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I'll keep the BTT title, because it's a checkmark on the list of goals this program is trying to knock off while re-establishing itself as an upper tier competitive program in the Big Ten.

Winning the BTT will help, and it's one less thing hanging over the program as something we just can't seem to achieve. Of course if we then proceed to go another 16 years between BTT titles the cycle repeats itself.

That's no different than the Big Ten regular season title, which is just accomplished in a different manner. And same can be said for the NCAA Tournament. They're all their own accomplishments to cross off the list.

It'd be nice if we could cross them all off at once, but we're Iowa and we can't have all the nice things, or at least for very long. That's not an "aww shucks we're just little ole Iowa" thing........that's literally our athletics history if any of you bother to look it up.

As for the NCAA Tournament, many have already explained it, but the Sweet 16 thing isn't necessarily some gold standard, but consistently getting to that Round alone speaks to a consistently successful program, at least in the NCAA Tournament.

Having not been there since 1999, Iowa fans just view that as one of the next big goals to cross off the list moreso than it being the standard with which Iowa needs to strive for every year.

We should actually be wanting to strive for greater than that, obviously (because why else do we recruit if not to win a got dam National Championship @Franisdaman). However, finally getting that monkey off the back, while not the end all be all, will be a big relief for everyone from those within the program and throughout the entire fanbase.

 

[TRHawkeye145]

Iowa took the lead because PMac hit 2 3's as a part of an 11 pt run. It also included Tony attacking the basket for a tough layup and a FT. So, both parts of the game resulted in points. I don't think they ever stopped trying to get the ball inside.

Iowa was never "lazy" in that game. Perhaps a little tired, perhaps a little uninspired. It appeared they were playing very good defense for about 24 seconds, and then Richmond would get a bucket. Also possible some fatigue.

"Relying" on the 3's was a huge part of their success this year but they didn't fall - but, they also missed a ton of inside shots as well.

Yes, Iowa failed to get to the S16 again - 23 years in a row. But this loss would have hurt just as much if they had made it to the S16 last year.

I agree with your post until the last sentence. Getting to sweet 16 the previous year would have been a "monkey off our back" milestone that would have help ease the pain of this loss.

These losses...especially 1st round losses to Richmond... is like an ever growing frustration just building up and makes every dance appearance (and flame out) that much worse IMO

 

[mstp1992]

Iowa took the lead because PMac hit 2 3's as a part of an 11 pt run. It also included Tony attacking the basket for a tough layup and a FT. So, both parts of the game resulted in points. I don't think they ever stopped trying to get the ball inside.

Iowa was never "lazy" in that game. Perhaps a little tired, perhaps a little uninspired. It appeared they were playing very good defense for about 24 seconds, and then Richmond would get a bucket. Also possible some fatigue.

"Relying" on the 3's was a huge part of their success this year but they didn't fall - but, they also missed a ton of inside shots as well.

Yes, Iowa failed to get to the S16 again - 23 years in a row. But this loss would have hurt just as much if they had made it to the S16 last year.

It was right after that 11-0 run that I thought Iowa was finally playing inspired basketball. Something happened though following Richmond’s time out. Richmond came out full of fire and I saw many of the Iowa players looking content.

What I don’t understand is how fatigue could be a factor when Richmond played the same number of games in the same number of days.

 

[TampaHawkfan]

If this team is remembered 25-30 years from now it will be remembered for how fun the ride was and as one of the best teams in Iowa basketball history. At least by people that know anything about basketball.

Like the 2006 team? People can't talk about that team without bringing up Northwestern State. So it will be with this team as well. If you don't think so, it sounds like you're the one who doesn't know anything about basketball.

 

[BonzoFury]

It was right after that 11-0 run that I thought Iowa was finally playing inspired basketball. Something happened though following Richmond’s time out. Richmond came out full of fire and I saw many of the Iowa players looking content.

What I don’t understand is how fatigue could be a factor when Richmond played the same number of games in the same number of days.

Iowa also spreads the minutes out more with a deeper rotation. 10 players with more than 10 min/game. Richmond has 8 averaging more than 10 min/game. 4 of their starters avg over 25 min/game. Iowa has 2.

It would seem that Richmond has at least as much of a case for the "tired" excuse.

 

[Razorhawk2]

Like the 2006 team? People can't talk about that team without bringing up Northwestern State. So it will be with this team as well. If you don't think so, it sounds like you're the one who doesn't know anything about basketball.

Would be happy to compare our credentials.

 

[Pepperman]

Right here you point out they lacked emotion, intensity. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. Is some of it fatigue? Probably, but Richmond had also played 4 games in 4 days, yet they looked like they were pumped up the entire game. Iowa didn’t. Iowa looked like the BTT was their finish line, and just assumed they’d beat Richmond.

sigh, I never said it was all due to fatigue and I then listed about 5-7 factors, agreeing with you at that time that Iowa wasn’t taking Richmond seriously. In fact YOU said fatigue had nothing to do with it in those posts and now you’re admitting it was one of the factors.

if you want to keep arguing this, I’ll simply quote all of our posts in the thread and you can see for yourself.

Richmond wasn't exactly "fresh". They were coming off 4 straight games in their conference tourney... just like Iowa. That excuse doesn't play.

how many 14 seeds had to play on Sunday last week? I wasn’t saying anything about Richmond.

Make a poll if you wish and ask the posters here if a fresh legged Iowa would have beaten a 14? If the only options are yes or no, I’m certain this argument will die quickly.

 

[HawkRugged17]

I'm not going to argue that people aren't different, but I think my point of view is the norm. I don't focus on negatives; I remember big moments. There are no bigger moments in college basketball than the NCAA Tourney. I remember our last Sweet 16 team very well; I can still see Dean Oliver's behind the back full-court pass to Jess Settles to essentially seal it vs. Arkansas. Unfortunately, there has been very little good to remember in the NCAA Tourney for Iowa since then. I'll remember the comeback to force OT vs. Tennessee in the #10-#2 game, but just about every other memory is heart-breaking and trumps any good moments that may have otherwise occurred.

If you're able to look back on this season and only see the fun moments and not be bothered by the excruciating thud in the Tourney, that's certainly good for you, but I think for most of us the '22 season will always be defined by the Richmond game, and like it or not, the NW St, Oregon and Richmond games define Iowa basketball on a national level this century more than anything they have otherwise accomplished.

I agree that there are very few good memories from the NCAA Tourney for Iowa in the past 23 years. I also can remember farther back that that. I was alive in 1970, 1980, and during other Iowa tourney runs - good and bad.

Also, I am able to put memories in context. Expectations for this year were low and then built up over the year. Many folks (including me) didn't expect an NCAA Tourney berth. In the grand scheme of things, the Sweet 16 was an afterthought this year, until it wasn't (in some folks minds).

So, as an overall program ... yes, the Sweet 16 is a goal that would be great to get back to and something to celebrate. For this year's team, a BTT title was a fun run as well. I won't let one bad game cause me to forget everything else that happened.

Fair?

 

[HawkRugged17]

It was right after that 11-0 run that I thought Iowa was finally playing inspired basketball. Something happened though following Richmond’s time out. Richmond came out full of fire and I saw many of the Iowa players looking content.

What I don’t understand is how fatigue could be a factor when Richmond played the same number of games in the same number of days.

I don't think fatigue (overall) was a factor. Both teams faced the same amount of games/rest over the past week or so.

I think you confused results (baskets made, rebounds, and turnovers) with fire. Of course, the team getting the better of it always seems full of fire and energized while the team who is losing seems unmotivated. It's common sense, but results oriented.

Iowa was inspired by the 11-0 run. You don't say.

 

[WestCoastHawkI]

In my mind there are 3 trophies to care about. The Big Ten Regular Season Championship, Big Ten Tournament Championship, and the NCAA Tournament Championship. None more important than the other. It's insane to me that you can have an awful record, get an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, win it (or just make it to the second weekend) and that all of a sudden makes up for sucking all year.

 

[Razorhawk2]

Dude it’s a free message board where we’re discussing out thoughts on the game. Get out of here with that white knight stuff

Dude it’s a free message board where calling out fair-weather fans and no nothing fans is allowed. Get over it.

 

[GhostAppendage]

I do agree that basing the success of a season based on one game (if you win the first round and then lose in the second round) or losing in the first round is silly over the course of a long season. The BTT was nice to win for the players and something they obviously strived for and achieved.

I think for some folks, it's the matter of Iowa, as a program, not advancing to the Sweet 16 since 1999 overall is a sticking point. Different coaches, different players, different matchups, etc. and yet ... they can't seem to get past the 'barrier' placed there by some fans (and probably players and coaches, for that matter).

In a vacuum, great season when expectations were low at the start of the season. However, as expectations grew, some got excited for finally getting past the barrier that the program hasn't gotten by in 23 season. It is wearing on some.

Big Ten men should play their tournament same time as the women then allow their best teams more than 3 days to get their legs back under them.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Now you want to rag on the Big Ten’s all time 3 point leader. Do all us real fans a favor and find another team to support.

Much like I won't remember much about this team other than the Richmond debacle, I'll probably remember JBo more for his NCAA Tourney week rage Tweeting more than I will his 3-pointers. Nothing wrong with me as a fan. That's just the way it is. You screw up big-time in mid-March in college basketball you are writing your legacy as such.

No use arguing about it, because there's no way to prove today how this team will be looked at in 10-20 years, but 2006 was 16 years ago, and I only remember one thing vividly about that season. And there's no way I'm alone.

 

[mstp1992]

I don't think fatigue (overall) was a factor. Both teams faced the same amount of games/rest over the past week or so.

I think you confused results (baskets made, rebounds, and turnovers) with fire. Of course, the team getting the better of it always seems full of fire and energized while the team who is losing seems unmotivated. It's common sense, but results oriented.

Iowa was inspired by the 11-0 run. You don't say.

What bothered me after Iowa’s 11-0 run was that they came out of the time out taken by Richmond NOT fired up. Richmond was, however, even though they had just gotten rocked by Iowa. The Hawks looked lackadaisical instead of going for the kill.

I have no doubt this’ll bother the players and coaches far more than any of us.

 

[83Hawk]

In my mind there are 3 trophies to care about. The Big Ten Regular Season Championship, Big Ten Tournament Championship, and the NCAA Tournament Championship. None more important than the other. It's insane to me that you can have an awful record, get an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament, win it (or just make it to the second weekend) and that all of a sudden makes up for sucking all year.

An NCAA Tournament Championship is not more important than a Big 10 regular season or BTT title?

Sorry, but you lose all credibility with a statement like that.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

So you were asleep during and the days following the BTT when every major sports outlet was drooling over Iowa? "Completely irrelevant", really?

Yeah, I went back to all those sports outlets and there has been nothing about Iowa basketball for days, and this is the most important time of year. WTF!

 

[Ronman]

Because it’s all that any CBB fan of any team will remember about their team & other teams.

A school is remembered by how far they go in the tourney. Every year.

Steve Alford begs to differ!

 

[amahawk]

ok so that’s why I think fresh leg Iowa beats any 14. If we truly saw the same thing you know Iowa looked tired against an admittedly also tired Richmond…

the other thing is outside of just a few games all year, Iowa took care of business when favored.

I mean, I’m pissed at Fran too for lack of preparation and focus, and for all I know the same could’ve happened against a 14 seed. It’s not a guaranteed win, but I hope I’ve explained my view enough for you to admit it’s very much reality-based?

Richmond also played in and won their tourney.

 

[HawkRugged17]

What bothered me after Iowa’s 11-0 run was that they came out of the time out taken by Richmond NOT fired up. Richmond was, however, even though they had just gotten rocked by Iowa. The Hawks looked lackadaisical instead of going for the kill.

I have no doubt this’ll bother the players and coaches far more than any of us.

Teams look lackadaisical when they miss shots ... Iowa was up 5 (39-34) and missed their next 6 shots to fall behind 45-39 (Richmond 11-0 run). Iowa never led again, but cut the lead to 2 a couple of times and 1 (58-57) with 2:02 left.

Iowa just could not make the plays to get over the hump. They were trying, but it just didn't happen. I will credit the opponent and believe the players tried their hardest to win the game.

Again ... it's OK if some folks believe differently. I do not share that opinion.

 

[Jizzer]

Yeah, I went back to all those sports outlets and there has been nothing about Iowa basketball for days, and this is the most important time of year. WTF!

Again, we were the talk for 3 days because of the BTT, you can move the goalposts from your original statement all you want.

 

[Ronman]

25-30 years from now, a younger generation will ask why.

I think they are going to have more important problems to worry about and probably will have some burning questions on how they got to where they are. I seriously doubt the Richmond game is going to register on their concern meter.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Again, we were the talk for 3 days because of the BTT, you can move the goalposts from your original statement all you want.

Didn't move anything. Proved we are yesterday's news. I could name every Iowa basketball team in history to make the Sweet 16, but couldn't name one thing about who said what on TV hyping the team up any year. That's my point. Iowa essentially wiped out any "relevance" they may have had pre-Tourney by laying a gigantic turd. Absolutely no casual basketball fan in the country will remember Iowa's BTT championship, but many will remember that time Iowa was a 5 seed and lost their opener to a 12 seed and busted their bracket because they bought-in too much to the hype.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

I think they are going to have more important problems to worry about and probably will have some burning questions on how they got to where they are. I seriously doubt the Richmond game is going to register on their concern meter.

OH, for the love of God, can we just keep this a sports discussion board. The "60s-era doom and gloom message board" isn't on Rivals, although you might find something you like on HROT.

 

[mstp1992]

Teams look lackadaisical when they miss shots ... Iowa was up 5 (39-34) and missed their next 6 shots to fall behind 45-39 (Richmond 11-0 run). Iowa never led again, but cut the lead to 2 a couple of times and 1 (58-57) with 2:02 left.

Iowa just could not make the plays to get over the hump. They were trying, but it just didn't happen. I will credit the opponent and believe the players tried their hardest to win the game.

Again ... it's OK if some folks believe differently. I do not share that opinion.

I’m talking about the actual moment out of the time out. Iowa players looked content, but Richmond was all fired up and then proceeded to get their own run.

Enough said on the topic, though, at least from me.

 

[HawkRugged17]

I’m talking about the actual moment out of the time out. Iowa players looked content, but Richmond was all fired up and then proceeded to get their own run.

Enough said on the topic, though, at least from me.

Geezus ... Iowa looked content. What were they supposed to look like?

 

[CycloneState1028]

ISU has won plenty of tournament chips. Here’s how I’d rank everything in order of achievement

1. Conference Regular Season Title (unless Elite 8 or better is earned)
2. Conference Tournament Title (unless S16 or better is earned)

I.E. - I’d rather make a S16 or better and give up a conf tournament title. But I’d rather have the Conf regular season title over a run to the S16 or worse.

And just to add - a conf tournament title is cool but a regular season title is what matters.

 

[unclesammy]

Iowa also spreads the minutes out more with a deeper rotation. 10 players with more than 10 min/game. Richmond has 8 averaging more than 10 min/game. 4 of their starters avg over 25 min/game. Iowa has 2.

It would seem that Richmond has at least as much of a case for the "tired" excuse.

Richmond runs their offense thru their point guard and, apparently, that kid doesn't get tired or we didn't pressure him enough to make him tired. Our offense is predicated on constant movement of all our players. That's the only excuse I can make for us being more "tired."

 

[BonzoFury]

sigh, I never said it was all due to fatigue and I then listed about 5-7 factors, agreeing with you at that time that Iowa wasn’t taking Richmond seriously. In fact YOU said fatigue had nothing to do with it in those posts and now you’re admitting it was one of the factors.

if you want to keep arguing this, I’ll simply quote all of our posts in the thread and you can see for yourself.



how many 14 seeds had to play on Sunday last week? I wasn’t saying anything about Richmond.

Make a poll if you wish and ask the posters here if a fresh legged Iowa would have beaten a 14? If the only options are yes or no, I’m certain this argument will die quickly.

It's not an argument, but it is a moot hypothetical. Iowa didn't play a 14. Would they have beaten a 14 with their best game? Yes. But they didn't bring their best game Thursday...be it against a 14 or the 12 that they actually played.
The tired legs angle doesn't hold up as Richmond played 4 games in 4 days too...with a smaller rotation.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

It was right after that 11-0 run that I thought Iowa was finally playing inspired basketball. Something happened though following Richmond’s time out. Richmond came out full of fire and I saw many of the Iowa players looking content.

What I don’t understand is how fatigue could be a factor when Richmond played the same number of games in the same number of days.

Fatigue might not be the right word. But, winning the BTT was difficult physically and mentally. Then, as they rested up, they got to "enjoy" talk about them making the FF. Maybe off a little physically and not quite as inspired mentally as they were in the BTT.

Perhaps they thought this would be an easier game and weren't locked in 100% like in the BTT.

🤷‍♂️

 

[BonzoFury]

Drop the excuses already. ISU's coach just did in 1 year what Fran hasn't been able to do in 12.

 

[regibson1]

I agree that there are very few good memories from the NCAA Tourney for Iowa in the past 23 years. I also can remember farther back that that. I was alive in 1970, 1980, and during other Iowa tourney runs - good and bad.

Also, I am able to put memories in context. Expectations for this year were low and then built up over the year. Many folks (including me) didn't expect an NCAA Tourney berth. In the grand scheme of things, the Sweet 16 was an afterthought this year, until it wasn't (in some folks minds).

So, as an overall program ... yes, the Sweet 16 is a goal that would be great to get back to and something to celebrate. For this year's team, a BTT title was a fun run as well. I won't let one bad game cause me to forget everything else that happened.

Fair?

Agreed. Even if you make the sweet sixteen (and only that) you still are a loser if you don't make the eight and no one will remember you if you don't make the final four. Iowa has consistently made the NCAA tournament under Fran and this year Iowa won the Big Ten tournament which will be remembered more so than if they had made the sweet sixteen.

Judging from the lousy three point shooting exhibited by a number of teams in this years NCAA tournament, there must be something to the argument about the Wilson Basketball teams are having to play with. Wisconsin shot 2 out of 20 or so from 3, Iowa State was also miserable from the 3 point line and the Basketball was bouncing off the rim like a ping pong ball. The team that will end up winning this tournament I believe will win with a big Center like Dickenson from Michigan or the two bigs from Purdue.

Iowa earlier set the record for the number of threes made in the Big Ten tournament so they were terrible against Richmond as I believe that Kentucky was terrible against St. Peters which was a 15 seed. This game however doesn't take away from the year that Iowa had when they were not even given a chance to be able to make the NCAA tournament after losing four starters from the previous year.

 

[CarterHall]

Why do we keep score??? Why do they even play???

 

[Tfxchawk]

Ridicule me all you want, but why is sweet 16 so much better than a B10 championship? Obviously, everyone wanted a deeper run, but do they hang sweet 16 banners? Don't think so, but I sure bet they'll have a B10 champ one. It's the nature of 1 and done's... everyone has a shitty shooting day time to time. I'd rather have a tournament championship than none at all.

Big Ten championship is better

 

[Pepperman]

Why do we keep score??? Why do they even play???

to win a BTT championship and then rage tweet, duh.

plus you have to keep score and track W-L so you can know for sure you’re still doing better than the guy you replaced 12 years ago?

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Iowa won the Big Ten tournament which will be remembered more so than if they had made the sweet sixteen.

That is absolutely f#cking absurd. Please tell me it's a joke.

 

[herk90]

Recruiting. It matters. A team that gets to the sweet 16 more than not can draw better players. Iowa hasn’t been relevant in the NCAA tourney for a couple decades

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Nobody cares about anything but tourney performance. Conference tournament is meaningless except for small conferences.

 

[CarterHall]

That is absolutely f#cking absurd. Please tell me it's a joke.

Welcome to the fascinating world of Hawkeye sycophantism.

 

[regibson1]

That is absolutely f#cking absurd. Please tell me it's a joke.

It is not f@cking absurd. What banner gets displayed by making the sweet 16? You still end up a loser by not advancing further in the NCAA tournament. Right now it is a crapshoot as to who will win the NCAA tournament. St Peters making the sweet 16 is a joke.

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

It is not f@cking absurd. What banner gets displayed by making the sweet 16? You still end up a loser by not advancing further in the NCAA tournament. Right now it is a crapshoot as to who will win the NCAA tournament. St Peters making the sweet 16 is a joke.

Oh, I get it; you're just trolling. Thank God.