On the whole, I have much more use for reference books than lawyers.
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Any good news coming?
- Thread starter hawkaeg80
- Start date
Iowa State fan chiming in... I'd vote for the bolded if given a choice.
Here's the deal on that. Dynasties are not good for the sport. Or any sport for that matter. Parity breeds competition and excitement for all teams.
You guys (and Iowa State fans as well) complain about how it's always the same teams in the college football playoffs, etc. That feeling is magnified in wrestling.
If PSU didn't win every national championship, they wouldn't have the same roster and some of those hammers would be at other places. Like Iowa, OSU, ISU, Michigan, ect. Parity.
NOBODY is a "full blown has-been" in wrestling. Shit changes. Just my opinion.
By the way... this thread is effing nutso... lol!!!
Minnesota and Oklahoma State are shells of what they were just a decade ago and that was a shell of what they were at their greatest..........
They are LIKE children but they aren’t ACTUALLY children. There needs to be a difference. Why? Because of exactly what J did. It isn’t his job or his role. Did you see how it all ended? The coach was fired and the program was gutted based on his highly inappropriate actions.
I never, ever, ever, never, EVER want a coach covering for drug dealers and destroying evidence. Ever. Neither did the U of M. Which is why J was fired. Their program continues to pay the price for him doing the wrong thing.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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Replace "children" with any one of your adult family. Say your brother. I trust based on the logic you've outlined in this thread that if he ever commits a crime (including non-violent crimes) you'll go straight to the police and let the formal judicial system determine his fate.
He's not in charge of or responsible for his brother. Completely different role coach/athlete vs brother/brother or father/son. And guess what, if kirk ferentz knew Brian was involved with drugs and covered it up and illegally disposed of drugs for him, he would be rightfully fired.
Hey, I won't even take one of those at home DNA tests for fear somehow it will be used to tie one of my cousins to a crime they'd otherwise have gotten away with.
I hope that doesn't make me a bad person.
NOTE: I am not actually aware of any such crimes, but let's just say I wouldn't be surprised.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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I never had any issue with j rob being fired. Ofc the university had to fire him. The point is that the way j rob handled it isn't immoral and doesn't make him a bad person.
JRob is old school. At the time, he figured he WAS handling the situation. He was NOT simply covering it up. He figured the simplest way to END something was to give them a chance to have everyone involved come forward, without serious punishment. His sole focus was to end the problem versus ending careers. He wasn't trying to simply hide it.
In hindsight, as far as his own career goes, it was a poor decision. I have never said otherwise. However, the entire point is that he stuck to his promise. He made a deal with his wrestlers and honored it. Obviously, if the law was already involved, he shouldn't, and hopefully wouldn't, have gone that route. But, at the time, he thought it was the best way forward for everyone involved. That is the major difference. If he made the deal AFTER the law was involved, or KNOWING they were going to be, I would agree that it was 100% wrong and would NOT argue against calling it a "cover up"...
In hindsight, as far as his own career goes, it was a poor decision. I have never said otherwise. However, the entire point is that he stuck to his promise. He made a deal with his wrestlers and honored it. Obviously, if the law was already involved, he shouldn't, and hopefully wouldn't, have gone that route. But, at the time, he thought it was the best way forward for everyone involved. That is the major difference. If he made the deal AFTER the law was involved, or KNOWING they were going to be, I would agree that it was 100% wrong and would NOT argue against calling it a "cover up"...
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WISCONSIN DELLS, Wis. – The USA Wrestling Regionals series continued with the Northern Plains Regional Championships being held at Woodside Wisconsin Dells Center in Wisconsin Dells, Wis.
There were five double champions in the Junior boys division, athletes who won both the freestyle and Greco-Roman styles: Elijah Hyet of Iowa (100), Cole Welte of Nebraska (106), Alex Braun of Minnesota (145), Cole Han-Lindemyer of Minnesota (182) and Navarro Schunke of South Dakota (285).
There's some good news! Discuss
There were five double champions in the Junior boys division, athletes who won both the freestyle and Greco-Roman styles: Elijah Hyet of Iowa (100), Cole Welte of Nebraska (106), Alex Braun of Minnesota (145), Cole Han-Lindemyer of Minnesota (182) and Navarro Schunke of South Dakota (285).
There's some good news! Discuss
You can replace it with anything you want. It doesn't change that the dynamic should be (and is) drastically different between athlete/coach and actual family. The comparison is apples and bananas.
I will say that if I'm a head coach I would have reported it to my superior and I sure as hell wouldn't have collected drugs and destroyed evidence. Why? Because that's wrong and I would get fired for it. You know...just like J Robinson did. He's a shining example of what not to do.
I also bet you dollars to donuts you'd be the first guy campaigning for Cael to get fired if this situation was reported at PSU.
Apples to bananas and dollars for donuts in the same post - well done. Might be a first.
That's nothing. In another very active thread we are talking pizza and subs.
It comes down to that bolded sentence. Are you the kind of coach that treats your team like family or are you the one that can separate them like an Employer/Employee relationship when necessary. Many relationships, especially back in my day, between coaches and wrestlers are even closer than their own families. A really good friend of mine never really knew his father and he is as close with his High School wrestling coach as I am with my father.
There is NO WAY IN HELL that coach would have turned him in if that happened under his watch. NONE. Now, I am not saying that it wouldn't be wrong, but you paint it in such a broad stroke, when there is a hell of a lot more to those situations than that...
We have to wonder how many times JRob or other coaches have done this sort of thing and no one found out about it. Then we have to wonder how many of those times ended up being the thing that allowed person to learn from his mistakes and go on to live a good clean productive life. College age kids do foolish things and most of them learn from their mistakes.
The last thing I would want to do is tell an AD who is worried about saving his own a$$ over doing what is best for the kids. I know we can argue as to whether covering something up is best for the kids, but I believe JRob thought that was the case.
The last thing I would want to do is tell an AD who is worried about saving his own a$$ over doing what is best for the kids. I know we can argue as to whether covering something up is best for the kids, but I believe JRob thought that was the case.
They are treated "LIKE" family. Not "AS" family. There's a distinct and important difference in the appropriate relationship dynamic. A lesson was learned here by showing everyone what NOT to do.
Lets not forget JRob benefitted from this so called act of altruism by keeping his roster intact at a time when they was already starting to weaken as a program.
He did? Wasn't there a quick exodus? if I remember correctly, Papa Bear posted on here at the time and his son had to leave mid-season.
You can twist his intent to fit your narrative, but I don't see how he actually benefitted. In fact, I am pretty sure it full on backfired in his face...
Please give me the definitions you are using to make "like" and "as" different. If you treat someone like family that is the exact same thing as treating them as family. How can you treat someone like your family but not as family? Hell, in two of the definitions "as" is literally used to define like...
Like:
- 1.
in the same way that; as.
"people who change countries like they change clothes"
- 2.
as though; as if.
"I felt like I'd been kicked by a camel"
Also, it is only shown as a lesson of what not to do, because the law caught wind of it. He could have just as easily quelled the situation with what he did and moved on without further repurcussions and none being the wiser.
Mind you, I think Minnesota wrestling still falls apart if J Rob did everything by the book. Minnesota was already starting to teeter on the edge and key wrestlers dealing drugs was going to be a major issue regardless of how J. handled it...
Here are other definitions:
1. having the same characteristics or qualities as; similar to.
Or:
2. having similar qualities or characteristics to another person or thing.
You also realize you literally just described a cover up, right? More specifically, an attempted one. And since we are playing the dictionary game…
Cover up:
1. try to hide the fact of illegal or illicit activity.
Can we get back on track here?
If Ben Keuter goes football full time, Iowa would be wise to pick up Navarro Schunke from Brandon Valley, SD. I've watched this kid since he was an 8th grader dominating ( ok, the competition wasn't stellar at the time) the state tournament at 220. He's now a heavy and wreaking havoc nationally, majoring or pinning everyone last month at the NHSCA HS Nationals, while winning double international titles at Northern Plains Regional. Pretty much untouchable nationallly since 2019. Great legger and pinner.
His older brother Damion ( 2 timer- lost a year to injury) wrestles at ASU, just finished his redshirt freshman season. Wouldn't that be something to bring home big brother and have the set? Much closer for the parent's/family to watch.
If Ben Keuter goes football full time, Iowa would be wise to pick up Navarro Schunke from Brandon Valley, SD. I've watched this kid since he was an 8th grader dominating ( ok, the competition wasn't stellar at the time) the state tournament at 220. He's now a heavy and wreaking havoc nationally, majoring or pinning everyone last month at the NHSCA HS Nationals, while winning double international titles at Northern Plains Regional. Pretty much untouchable nationallly since 2019. Great legger and pinner.
His older brother Damion ( 2 timer- lost a year to injury) wrestles at ASU, just finished his redshirt freshman season. Wouldn't that be something to bring home big brother and have the set? Much closer for the parent's/family to watch.
Again, like and as are the SAME THING. Hell, even the definition you just used has the word "as" in it. Even if you focus on similar for like and remove your "as" comparison, would it not be extremely dissimilar if you went to the authorities for someone you treat like family, when you wouldn't for family?
My entire argument hasn't been what he did AFTER the law was involved. It was what he did BECAUSE of what he agreed to BEFORE. Again, the offer made had no intent to simply "cover up". If he hadn't made the deal before, I would absolutely agree with you. Hell, I even agree that the deal probably wasn't the right thing to do. But, he made a deal to FIX the situation, NOT cover it up...
So, to sum it up, our whole disagreement lies in my focusing heavily on the deal he made with his team. By honoring it, his interactions with the Law and University were not forthcoming. Meanwhile you are 100% disregarding it or flat out don't care about it. To me, the deal, whether anyone thinks it was right or not, determines whether it was an attempted cover up or his just doing what he thought was the right thing...
So was his intent for it to backfire in his face?... of course not, it was his intent to handle it internally so he could control the situation and not lose wrestlers (and possibly his job) by keeping the administration, authorities and parents in the dark. The fact it didn't work out that way doesn't turn him into some kind of martyr.
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so the fact that as is literally used in the definiton of like in at least 3 different definitions so far has no bearing?
Hell, "similar" is used in all the of these for "as" and "like" is even used in 1....
conjunction
- 1.used to indicate that something happens during the time when something is taking place:"Frank watched him as he ambled through the crowd"Similarwhilejust aseven asat the (same) time that
- 2.used to indicate by comparison the way that something happens or is done:"they can do as they wish"Similarin the (same) way thatthe (same) wayin the (same) manner thatinformal:like
- 1.used to refer to the function or character that someone or something has:"it came as a shock"Similarin the guise ofwith the appearance ofin the character ofso as to appear to be
Handling it internally doesn't mean he had nefarious or soley selfish intentions. Which is what "cover up" implies, let alone the crap you typed in bold above. Hell, the fact that he wouldn't give the kids up sure as hell makes me lean towards my take. If he was solely out for himself, he would have thrown all the kids under the bus as soon as he felt pressure from the Administration, let alone the Law.
Say what you will, but he WAS looking out for those kids...
- The conjunctions as and like have the same meaning when used in comparisons. Like is a little more informal. Nobody understands him as I do. Nobody understands him like I do.
Zero interest in entering the weeds. In most people’s everyday language use, like is meant as the same in many but not all ways and as is meant as the same in all ways.
Now, with all of that said, I apologize to those of you that really didn't want to read a slew of posts basically arguing over the words like, as and similar. I just feel strongly about how J Rob's career ended. I only met him a few times, but everything I knew about the guy was that he was 100% STAND UP. In hindsight, "the agreement" with the wrestlers wasn't good. But, I stand by him 100% for everything he did after making the agreement.
Welp, if I wasn't the actual person that used the word like, I would probably be slightly more open to your stance. However, i am not keen on people telling me what I mean when I say/post something. Does that at least make sense? I mean, I even used the definitions that fit most closely to what I was saying.
To help you fully enter the weeds, when you say "most people" how do you know? Have you polled enough of the English speaking population to say at least 750,000,000 people think that way? Mind you, the British actually believe the words to be the same when using it the way I was, so you need to nix them completely!
I think you left off the "," after as in the 2nd sentence. I am being told that is a new rule to follow. Since the initial discussion/argument has drifted off yet again.
Thank you. I will try to be better with my quotation mark usage in the future!
Actually it was just the comma - but I hope you know it was all in jest. You never know when you'll strike a nerve anymore. 2nd place finishes aren't good for the general mood.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
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No one here has argued that he was wrongly fired. I stated explicitly several times now that of course the university had to fire him for cause. He was retirement age anyway so not the end of the world.
The entire point that I and others have been making is that it was a selfless, generous, and well intentioned act on J Rob's part. Definitely not immoral. Likely the best outcome for those wrestlers and for society as a whole.
I understand you might not agree, and that's fine, but at minimum you should be able to see others' point of view and consider that it's a grey situation and there isn't necessarily a right or wrong answer.
I'm not going to revise my post based on your perception of the English language. LOL No matter the book definition, you asked me to clarify my point and I did so...abundantly. Whether I used the Queen's English or a PSU fan's hick hillbilly English, the opinion has now been clearly stated.
A lot of people in leadership positions make mistakes. They are human, after all. This incident doesn't mean he was a poor leader of men overall, or a bad guy overall. He did far (far) more good things in his career than bad. But in this case, he didn't live up to the standards of his position and it cost him.
Sorry, I misread your quotes, not noticing you put the comma inside them. Well done!. My nerves are much harder to strike than many on here believe. I actually found your post entertaining and well placed! Even if I thought you were telling me to "quote the "as" instead of my not using a comma after the "as"!!!!
I can live with both of those answers. Truly, we weren't that far off from each other in the overall. I just didn't find it "as" simplistic "as" a "cover up". As far as your use of English goes, I am fine with it "as" long "as" you realize your version is much closer to a "PSU fan's hick hillbilly English" than the Queen's!!
Hope the rest of your day goes as well as mine will!
What kind of a rookie asks a question like that in the cesspool? Moran!!
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