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Biden's team bracing for special counsel's report on classified docs

Fact check: Biden makes three false claims about his handling of classified information​


Here is a fact check.


Where the classified material was stored​

Biden sought to contrast his handling of classified material with that of former President Donald Trump, who faces felony charges for willfully retaining classified documents. (Hur agreed that there were major distinctions between the two cases.) But while Biden correctly noted that the documents were in a private home that is very different from the Mar-a-Lago social club where Trump lives, Biden embellished his argument with a false claim.

Biden said: “All the stuff that was in my home was in filing cabinets that were either locked or able to be locked.”

Facts First: Biden’s claim is not true. The special counsel’s report says that while some of the classified documents were found in cabinet drawers in Biden’s Delaware home, other classified documents, about Afghanistan, were found in an “unsealed” and “badly damaged” box sitting in his garage alongside an assortment of other items the special counsel described as “household detritus.” The report includes a photo of the box.

Hur wrote that investigators looked into the possibility that the Afghanistan-related documents found in the box were previously stored in a filing cabinet when Biden lived in a rented home in Virginia before moving out in 2019. Hur called that line of inquiry “inconclusive.” Regardless, Biden’s Thursday claim that “all” of the documents in his home were in locked or lockable filing cabinets is not true of his current home.

According to the special counsel, even classified documents Biden was storing elsewhere in his home were insufficiently secure. Hur wrote that Biden notebooks containing classified information from his vice presidency were found by investigators in “unlocked drawers in the office and basement den” of the home. Hur wrote that Biden “should have known” that as a private citizen as of 2017, “he was not permitted to keep handwritten notes about the President’s Daily Brief and other classified information in unlocked drawers in his home.”

The classification level of the documents Biden had in his possession​

Biden claimed of the documents he possessed: “None of it was high classified. It didn’t have any of that red stuff on it, you know what I mean, around the corners? None of that.”

Facts First: Biden’s claim that none of the classified material found in his possession was highly classified is false, according to details provided by the special counsel. Hur reported the discovery of documents in Biden’s possession that had markings identifying them as “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information,” a very high level of classification – plus handwritten notebooks from Biden’s time as vice president that weren’t marked as classified but that “contain information that remains classified up to the Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information level.”

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It’s not clear whether any of the marked classified documents found in Biden’s possession had the colored borders seen on some of the marked classified documents found in Trump’s possession, which is what Biden appeared to be referring to when he spoke about “that red stuff…around the corners.” Regardless, Hur explained at length that some of the documents were marked as Top Secretand some with other notations identifying them as highly classified.

For example, Hur wrote, the open box in Biden’s garage contained an Afghanistan-related memo from the National Security Adviser to President Barack Obama in 2009 marked “TOP SECRET/SCI” (Sensitive Compartmented Information). Hur wrote that experts in the intelligence community said the document contains “highly sensitive information about the military programs of the United States and a foreign government. The unauthorized disclosure of this information, both today and in 2017 when Mr. Biden was no longer vice president, reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.”

Hur wrote that the box in the garage contained another 2009 memo from the National Security Adviser to Obama marked “TOP SECRET WITH TOP SECRET/NOFORN/CODEWORD ATTACHMENTS” with attachments, one of which was marked “TOP SECRET//HUMINT/COMINT//ORCON/NOFORN//FISA.”Hur wrote that experts said “portions of this document contain national defense information about sensitive intelligence sources and methods.”

In addition, Hur wrote that notebooks with handwritten notes Biden took during his vice presidency contained information on “U.S. intelligence sources, methods, and capabilities,” “U.S. intelligence activities” and “the activities of foreign intelligence services,” among other things. Hur wrote that when investigators looked into a sampling of 37 excerpts from Biden’s handwritten materials that appeared to be classified, they found that “eight are Top Secret with Sensitive Compartmented Information, seven of which include information concerning human intelligence sources,” while six are Top Secret alone, 21 Secret and two Confidential.

“Mr. Biden wrote down obviously sensitive information discussed during intelligence briefings with then President Obama and meetings in the White House Situation Room about matters of national security and military and foreign policy,” Hur wrote.

What Hur said Biden said to his ghostwriter​

Hur said in the report that Biden disclosed classified material from his notebooks to the ghostwriter, Mark Zwonitzer, who worked with him on a 2017 memoir called “Promise Me, Dad.” But Biden categorically denied that he had shared classified information with the ghostwriter, saying he can “guarantee” he didn’t.

When a reporter responded that the special counsel said he did, Biden responded, “No, they did not say that. He did not say that.”

Facts First: Biden’s claim is false. Hur did say that, writing explicitly that “Mr. Biden shared information, including some classified information, from those notebooks with his ghostwriter.” He elaborated that Biden shared classified information with his ghostwriter by reading “nearly verbatim” from his notebooks “on at least three occasions,” including his “notes from meetings in the Situation Room.”

Hur did find, however, that Biden “at times” tried to avoid sharing classified information, by stopping at or skipping over certain material from the notebooks. And he wrote that “the evidence does not show that when Mr. Biden shared the specific passages with his ghostwriter, Mr. Biden knew the passages were classified and intended to share classified information.”

Hur wrote that in one recorded conversation with the ghostwriter in 2017, at the Virginia home where Biden then lived, Biden read from his notebook about a National Security Council meeting about Iraq in 2015, then told the ghostwriter about a 2009 memo he had written to Obama arguing against the deployment of more troops to Afghanistan – and then said, “I just found all the classified stuff downstairs.” Hur noted that more than five years later, investigators found classified documents about the Afghanistan troop surge in Biden’s Delaware garage.

Hur wrote that he has not heard of any allegations that classified material actually appeared in Biden’s 2017 memoir.


bins really wants to grasp at straws to make a mountain out of this molehill of NO CHARGES
 
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Fact check: Biden makes three false claims about his handling of classified information​


Here is a fact check.


Where the classified material was stored​

Biden sought to contrast his handling of classified material with that of former President Donald Trump, who faces felony charges for willfully retaining classified documents. (Hur agreed that there were major distinctions between the two cases.) But while Biden correctly noted that the documents were in a private home that is very different from the Mar-a-Lago social club where Trump lives, Biden embellished his argument with a false claim.

Biden said: “All the stuff that was in my home was in filing cabinets that were either locked or able to be locked.”

Facts First: Biden’s claim is not true. The special counsel’s report says that while some of the classified documents were found in cabinet drawers in Biden’s Delaware home, other classified documents, about Afghanistan, were found in an “unsealed” and “badly damaged” box sitting in his garage alongside an assortment of other items the special counsel described as “household detritus.” The report includes a photo of the box.

Hur wrote that investigators looked into the possibility that the Afghanistan-related documents found in the box were previously stored in a filing cabinet when Biden lived in a rented home in Virginia before moving out in 2019. Hur called that line of inquiry “inconclusive.” Regardless, Biden’s Thursday claim that “all” of the documents in his home were in locked or lockable filing cabinets is not true of his current home.

According to the special counsel, even classified documents Biden was storing elsewhere in his home were insufficiently secure. Hur wrote that Biden notebooks containing classified information from his vice presidency were found by investigators in “unlocked drawers in the office and basement den” of the home. Hur wrote that Biden “should have known” that as a private citizen as of 2017, “he was not permitted to keep handwritten notes about the President’s Daily Brief and other classified information in unlocked drawers in his home.”

The classification level of the documents Biden had in his possession​

Biden claimed of the documents he possessed: “None of it was high classified. It didn’t have any of that red stuff on it, you know what I mean, around the corners? None of that.”

Facts First: Biden’s claim that none of the classified material found in his possession was highly classified is false, according to details provided by the special counsel. Hur reported the discovery of documents in Biden’s possession that had markings identifying them as “Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information,” a very high level of classification – plus handwritten notebooks from Biden’s time as vice president that weren’t marked as classified but that “contain information that remains classified up to the Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information level.”

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It’s not clear whether any of the marked classified documents found in Biden’s possession had the colored borders seen on some of the marked classified documents found in Trump’s possession, which is what Biden appeared to be referring to when he spoke about “that red stuff…around the corners.” Regardless, Hur explained at length that some of the documents were marked as Top Secretand some with other notations identifying them as highly classified.

For example, Hur wrote, the open box in Biden’s garage contained an Afghanistan-related memo from the National Security Adviser to President Barack Obama in 2009 marked “TOP SECRET/SCI” (Sensitive Compartmented Information). Hur wrote that experts in the intelligence community said the document contains “highly sensitive information about the military programs of the United States and a foreign government. The unauthorized disclosure of this information, both today and in 2017 when Mr. Biden was no longer vice president, reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security.”

Hur wrote that the box in the garage contained another 2009 memo from the National Security Adviser to Obama marked “TOP SECRET WITH TOP SECRET/NOFORN/CODEWORD ATTACHMENTS” with attachments, one of which was marked “TOP SECRET//HUMINT/COMINT//ORCON/NOFORN//FISA.”Hur wrote that experts said “portions of this document contain national defense information about sensitive intelligence sources and methods.”

In addition, Hur wrote that notebooks with handwritten notes Biden took during his vice presidency contained information on “U.S. intelligence sources, methods, and capabilities,” “U.S. intelligence activities” and “the activities of foreign intelligence services,” among other things. Hur wrote that when investigators looked into a sampling of 37 excerpts from Biden’s handwritten materials that appeared to be classified, they found that “eight are Top Secret with Sensitive Compartmented Information, seven of which include information concerning human intelligence sources,” while six are Top Secret alone, 21 Secret and two Confidential.

“Mr. Biden wrote down obviously sensitive information discussed during intelligence briefings with then President Obama and meetings in the White House Situation Room about matters of national security and military and foreign policy,” Hur wrote.

What Hur said Biden said to his ghostwriter​

Hur said in the report that Biden disclosed classified material from his notebooks to the ghostwriter, Mark Zwonitzer, who worked with him on a 2017 memoir called “Promise Me, Dad.” But Biden categorically denied that he had shared classified information with the ghostwriter, saying he can “guarantee” he didn’t.

When a reporter responded that the special counsel said he did, Biden responded, “No, they did not say that. He did not say that.”

Facts First: Biden’s claim is false. Hur did say that, writing explicitly that “Mr. Biden shared information, including some classified information, from those notebooks with his ghostwriter.” He elaborated that Biden shared classified information with his ghostwriter by reading “nearly verbatim” from his notebooks “on at least three occasions,” including his “notes from meetings in the Situation Room.”

Hur did find, however, that Biden “at times” tried to avoid sharing classified information, by stopping at or skipping over certain material from the notebooks. And he wrote that “the evidence does not show that when Mr. Biden shared the specific passages with his ghostwriter, Mr. Biden knew the passages were classified and intended to share classified information.”

Hur wrote that in one recorded conversation with the ghostwriter in 2017, at the Virginia home where Biden then lived, Biden read from his notebook about a National Security Council meeting about Iraq in 2015, then told the ghostwriter about a 2009 memo he had written to Obama arguing against the deployment of more troops to Afghanistan – and then said, “I just found all the classified stuff downstairs.” Hur noted that more than five years later, investigators found classified documents about the Afghanistan troop surge in Biden’s Delaware garage.

Hur wrote that he has not heard of any allegations that classified material actually appeared in Biden’s 2017 memoir.

At a minimum neither Trump nor Biden should be allowed access to classified material. Again, if it were me or you, we would be permanently denied a security clearance for life. (and depending on the impact of the disclosure, we could face criminal charges)

So, the question is, if you can't have access to classified information can you perform your job? I wouldn't be able to. We've had situations where an Analyst lost their clearance (let's say for financial reasons), but not be susceptible to separation. So, they were forced to re-train to a different job.
 
At a minimum neither Trump nor Biden should be allowed access to classified material. Again, if it were me or you, we would be permanently denied a security clearance for life. (and depending on the impact of the disclosure, we could face criminal charges)

So, the question is, if you can't have access to classified information can you perform your job? I wouldn't be able to. We've had situations where an Analyst lost their clearance (let's say for financial reasons), but not be susceptible to separation. So, they were forced to re-train to a different job.
If we've learned anything...if you're high enough in the chain you can get away with stuff that'd get regular folk shit canned.

It is what it is...
 
#ZeroCharges

But other prominent legal analysts argued that Hur’s decision not to hold Biden responsible for years of violating the Presidential Records Act was far too lenient. Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law professor at George Washington University, said the depiction of Biden as too feeble to stand trial reminded him of the defense of mob leader Vincent Gigante, who often showed up in court in robes and pajamas. His lawyers successfully delayed his prosecution for years through arguments that he was mentally unfit to stand trial. Gigante was eventually convicted and sentenced to 12 years.

“Here the special counsel is saying, ‘You know what? It’s just going to break the jury’s heart to see an elderly man with such a faulty memory and diminished faculties being charged,’” Turley said on Fox News after the report’s release. “There’s going to be a lot of questions about that.”
 
But other prominent legal analysts argued that Hur’s decision not to hold Biden responsible for years of violating the Presidential Records Act was far too lenient. Jonathan Turley, a constitutional law professor at George Washington University, said the depiction of Biden as too feeble to stand trial reminded him of the defense of mob leader Vincent Gigante, who often showed up in court in robes and pajamas. His lawyers successfully delayed his prosecution for years through arguments that he was mentally unfit to stand trial. Gigante was eventually convicted and sentenced to 12 years.

“Here the special counsel is saying, ‘You know what? It’s just going to break the jury’s heart to see an elderly man with such a faulty memory and diminished faculties being charged,’” Turley said on Fox News after the report’s release. “There’s going to be a lot of questions about that.”
LOL Turley.
 
If we've learned anything...if you're high enough in the chain you can get away with stuff that'd get regular folk shit canned.

It is what it is...
Definitely true. I just wish people could either have non-partisan apathy or rage, not this "only concerned if it's the other guy" mentality. I love Colbert's comments on Toby Keith...I wish Americans could get there. Moral and I don't see eye-to-eye on everything, but I'd love to break bread with that guy.
 
Hur isn’t trying to make a medical diagnosis. He’s making a judgment call, as a prosecutor, on whether or not he can secure a unanimous conviction. Part of that calculus is anticipating what the defense’s strategy will be. He surmised that Biden’s lawyers would appeal to the jury’s empathy by depicting Biden as a well-meaning old man who simply forgot he had the documents.
He also surmised that there was not reasonable evidence to support Joe willfully holding the documents. The rest is just an opinion that should have been left out of the report.
 
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If you are deposing someone who doesn't seem to have recollection of the events in question, you might go to a personal milestone to test the level of functioning memory that is there...
It's been pointed out already but other subjects of the investigation couldn't recall specifics from stuff that happened a decade ago. You don't find it odd that none of them were accused of not having functioning minds? You can understand why this reeks of Hur having an agenda.
 
At a minimum neither Trump nor Biden should be allowed access to classified material. Again, if it were me or you, we would be permanently denied a security clearance for life. (and depending on the impact of the disclosure, we could face criminal charges)

So, the question is, if you can't have access to classified information can you perform your job? I wouldn't be able to. We've had situations where an Analyst lost their clearance (let's say for financial reasons), but not be susceptible to separation. So, they were forced to re-train to a different job.
Based on what? Biden was absolved of all crimes. Hur clearly stated that there was no reasonable evidence to support any crimes. You cant claim that someone is unfit based on them getting agitated about questions over their dead son.
 
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Watching Republicans try to equate Joe and Trump's actions, again, and the mental gymnastics they go through to do it is just comical and exposes a lack of logic. If a tape ever comes out with Biden saying, "You can just grab them by their hand.", they will try to make it equivalent to the sexual assaulter.
 
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Based on what? Biden was absolved of all crimes. Hur clearly stated that there was no reasonable evidence to support any crimes. You cant claim that someone is unfit based on them getting agitated about questions over their dead son.
Glad you're good with intentionally having TS/SCI information laying around and certain details of said classified information given to a journalist (or at least made available to him). You'd better as hell be A-OK with it when a Republican does it too.

Also, my mishandling wasn't criminal either, but had I been in the wrong, I'd have lost my clearance and subsequently my job.

The partisanship on display in this thread is sickening. Neither Trump nor Biden should be allowed near classified information ever. Actions have consequences. Period. It's not up for debate. You should read 18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information & 18 U.S.C. § 1924 - Unauthorized Removal and Retention of Classified Documents or Material.

Hur let Biden off because he's the President AND because he's "old".

In the United States, protecting classified information is paramount to safeguarding national security. Thus, when government officers, employees, or contractors mishandle classified materials entrusted to them, it risks significant harm to the United States and its interests.

Therefore, Title 18 U.S.C. 1924 makes it a federal crime to knowingly remove classified documents or materials from their designated locations without authorization or retain them in an unauthorized area.
 
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Sure, you shouldn’t be cavalier with classified docs. Glad he didn’t try to cover it up and cooperated with the investigation.
I am too (glad he cooperated), but it doesn't change the fact he did it and the only reason he's not facing legal action is because of his position. I'm saddened that it doesn't piss people off. It's a really big deal and people who are part of the IC get enraged when it happens, especially the double standard that's in place.
 
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Watching Democrats try to equate Joe and Trump's mental acuity, again, and the mental gymnastics they go through to do it is just comical and exposes a lack of logic. If a tape ever comes out with Trump saying, "I talked to a couple dead people this past week.", they will try to make it equivalent to the mashed potato brained President.
 
He also surmised that there was not reasonable evidence to support Joe willfully holding the documents.
No, he didn’t. He said there was clear evidence that Biden knowingly kept the documents and shared them with his ghostwriter but that he would have trouble convincing a jury to rule unanimously that he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Presumably because - again - all it takes is one Huey Grey on the jury to turn the entire process into a foregone conclusion.

Your thinking is so wildly polluted by your intense partisanship that you would never even consider that Biden broke a law. Trump once claimed he could walk down 5th Avenue shooting people and his supporters would still back him. And it turns out he’s probably not wrong. You’re the other side of that same coin. You’re one of the most extreme cases of partisan fervor that I’ve ever seen. Biden could literally go on national television tonight and say “Hell, yes, I took those documents! I needed them to help me write my memoirs!” and you would still adamantly insist that he did nothing wrong.
 
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Wait a second. You think that it's fair for Hur to ask about his dead son? Mind explaining why?
If the audio tapes of the interview were to be made public it would likely clarify that, to be fair.
The release could also possibly explain why Hur felt the need to insert the remarks about Biden’s performance and put forth his opinion on how Biden might be perceived by a jury as justification for a non-indictment.
 
So Hur is a doctor now trying to diagnose dementia? What expertise does he have to make to call? Why would he even try making to call to begin with?
I almost admire your fervor in defending the current POTUS.

None of us have heard the audio of the 5 hour interview but I will agree that I’d be very fatigued after 5 hours and if I were Biden’s age I might sound demented too - and so would many on this board (more so than usual😂)

IMO Hur’s wording showed he was trying to tiptoe through a mine field but he is definitely missing several toes at this point.
 
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This has been pointed out a billion times, but how does a man with such serious cognitive decline get so much done? No other president this century has accomplished as much. Do you honestly believe a man who can barely eat soup can do what Joe has done?
Are you that stupid? Joe is a puppet. His people do it for him. Duh.
 
Are you that stupid? Joe is a puppet. His people do it for him. Duh.
Which is why he is a much better choice than Trump - who insists on his own insanity being how things are done.

I am fine with Joe Biden as a symbolic figurehead and actually competent people running the show.

With Trump, the insane gibbon-monkey brained rapist conman crook is calling the shots. No one wants that.
 
Exactly. Home Alone 2 has nothing to do with Mueller just as Joe's dead son has nothing to do with classified documents. Hur was way out of line asking it.
The only thing I can think of is that it was a baseline question. For the record, state your name? Age? Profession? Married? List your children. Ages? You had a son pass away? What year was that? What years were you a Senator? What years were you VP?

Or Hur is the partisan hack you are making him out to be.
 
If the audio tapes of the interview were to be made public it would likely clarify that, to be fair.
The release could also possibly explain why Hur felt the need to insert the remarks about Biden’s performance and put forth his opinion on how Biden might be perceived by a jury as justification for a non-indictment.
I think the last thing team biden wants is for those tapes to be released.
 
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Glad you're good with intentionally having TS/SCI information laying around and certain details of said classified information given to a journalist (or at least made available to him). You'd better as hell be A-OK with it when a Republican does it too.

Also, my mishandling wasn't criminal either, but had I been in the wrong, I'd have lost my clearance and subsequently my job.

The partisanship on display in this thread is sickening. Neither Trump nor Biden should be allowed near classified information ever. Actions have consequences. Period. It's not up for debate. You should read 18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information & 18 U.S.C. § 1924 - Unauthorized Removal and Retention of Classified Documents or Material.

Hur let Biden off because he's the President AND because he's "old".

In the United States, protecting classified information is paramount to safeguarding national security. Thus, when government officers, employees, or contractors mishandle classified materials entrusted to them, it risks significant harm to the United States and its interests.

Therefore, Title 18 U.S.C. 1924 makes it a federal crime to knowingly remove classified documents or materials from their designated locations without authorization or retain them in an unauthorized area.
Even Hur said he couldn't find intentionality. Not sure what you want here.
 
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