West Virginia is the lowest of the Big12 at 1.8M. ISU is next at 3 millon. OU/OkST come in next at 3.8M. KU/KSU would bring in Kansas at 2.9M and the KC market at 2.1M for a total of nearly 5M. Then you have Baylor/Texas/TCU/TTU.
Big 12 expansion
- Thread starter grosie#2
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Yes, let's break it down - only in terms that actually matter in the deal. Football. Like it or not, football rules the roost. Need proof? Where are Colorado, A&M, Missouri and/or Nebraska residing conference wise these days? The Presidents/Chancellors will need to look at many factors when reaching any reorganizing decisions, but one of the most critical will be where are the dollars going to come from?
It is also that money that can drive some of the schools you so readily want to omit into very viable contenders. Temple, USF and BYU each have stadiums that exceed the expanded capacity of Jack Trice. Memphis is close enough in numbers that the difference is not a deal killer. Other markets like a Houston for example would immediately find its way to bigger and better facilities in order to become a part of the top division of all of college football.
So, what is different between those teams/schools and isu. Mostly it is history, performance and tradition. For more than a century of existence, isu has mostly struggled to compete and sustain any success on the field of play. Can it change for them in the future? Maybe. Will it happen soon enough to make a difference? Not likely.
UConn averaged 28,000 for a football game, Col. St, 24,000, ISU was over 54,000. As for ND, yes, they are the prize, and refuse to join a conference for football, even with 4 conferences, ND will have a place at the table, as for BYU yes, they have a large number of fans, averaged 62, 000 a game, also do not play on Sundays for their other sports and are a long ways away from everyone but the Pac 12.
But most of the KC market is in Missouri, therefore you do not get to charge extra for having them in the conference. Only the people of Kansas do you to increase the rate, the Missouri people would stay at their current rate which I believe is 10 cents a household without a team in the state. Same thing for Texas, if you get one school you get to charge more, therefore no need to bring in more than one school from each state. That is why Iowa's value is higher than say SEC to add another Texas school.
For fooball isu brings nothing to the table. Your AD has often stated that football is what drives the train and isu brings nothing that can't be had from numerous other schools.
I guess there is no point engaging with you if you honestly believe ISU has any chance in hell of joining the P12 or the ACC.
That's the point. KU's, and to an extent KSU's, proximity to KC would probably demand the higher network charge. Demand would be there to have said network on a basic tv package, thus being able to charge more. Rutgers is technically in New Jersey but they count in the NYC market which is why they got the invite.
You think I'm going to pay for whatever conference network that ISU ends up in? It's called demand, and ISU does not have enough of it to force cable/sat subscribers to carry their conference network. The Big 12 could start a conference network tomorrow but that doesn't mean any carrier in Iowa is going to carry it, maybe the provider around Ames, which means little subscription money coming out of this state. ISU adds no value to any potential conference because they cannot deliver the state.
Oh yes why sure. Silly of me. East coast folks and teams and west coast teams clamoring to travel el to the middle of a corn field for that 500 extra TV sets. Yes it all makes sense now. Probably because of hickory park. Right?
5 look at the attendance record over the past 20 years of all the schools you named outside of BYU, it's horrible. They are drawing at best 30 to 35,000. Houston won 11 or 12 games last year, and was outdrawn in attendance by ISU by 20,000 people. Houston is a pro football town and always will be, as for Temple, Memphis and USF they would kill for the attendance numbers that ISU gets and they are winning more games.
Football drives the train, but its not the only factor, if it was Rutgers and Maryland would still be in the ACC. Jeff, you want to make this whole argument over football, it goes well beyond football. So when you say ISU brings nothing to the table, I disagree and have shown that, nothing to the BIg 10 that is true, but they do to other conferences.
Its not 500 tv sets, it's the 2.9 million people in Iowa that they can charge more to then the 10 cents they are getting now. You are still thinking its the 1980's, the BTN changed that line of thinking, but some are still in the past. That is the genius of the idea, everyone in the state pays, and you get to charge more if that state is a member of your conference. So instead of 10 cents a month its a dollar, that is why the BTN and the SEC are making money hand over fist. Keep thinking its just 500 tv sets.
Do you have direct TV, Dish or cable, then you pay, just like I have to pay for the BTN, we have no say in the matter, that is why its a genius idea. Do you not think that a conference that has Texas, Oklahoma and the rest will not get on Sat. TV? That Mediacom and the rest of the cable providers will not sign up and just pass the costs on to the customer. Why does the BTN work, because everyone in the states that has a school pays, does not matter if you like or watch it, everyone pays. The Big 12 would not be any different.
Except according to the New York Times Rutgers has more fans in New York City 600,000 than ISU has total. It's those den pesky facts that keep getting in the way of your emotion based and largely unfounded explanations.
I also recall how hard it was to get the BTN going, the big xii doesn't have nor will it have the muscle to make those type of deals.
I keep thinking it's the 80s?.Two words clown. cord cutter. The future w be ala carte and ISU isn't attractive.
What does isu bring for football that any conference in the current power 5 can't get from another school? Oh and Mayrland and Rutgers brought new markets for TV which will have a major impact when our next TV contract is completed.
Since this board seems obsessed with trying to wish away the Big XII, here is yet another column on the subject, this from a Texas angle. (Don't worry; it doesn't say anything reassuring about ISU, so you can read it before preparing your responses).
http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2016/6/2/11841890/state-of-the-big-12-and-uts-future
Hey dick,
Here is how I know isu brings nothing to the table. The clowns hire a new ring leader with the Offensive Line coach of the year and which network jumps at the chance to carry his debut? cryclown TV.
Does it hurt being owned this badly?
Interesting concept, I don't know enough about Netflix to know if that revenue stream makes sense. Also not sure if there is enough creativity in Bowlsby to make it happen. May be a viable option because the traditional model isn't looking great. Does LHN carry forward in this model?
And I did chuckle in the ISU-Purdue comparison by Nebraska, doesn't seem like those Nebraska fans considered ISU any type of rival contrary to what some try to claim.
I think he probably got the reference to ISU correct....although there's no question the nature of it changed in the last decade of the relationship, which a Texas guy wouldn't know. Believe me, I have a lot of Big Red fans in my immediately family and circle of friends, which is one of the drawbacks of growing up in SW Iowa. They most definitely looked at the relationship differently....because it became competitive on a regular basis. No rocket science there.
What he's saying is that Nebraska would prefer to have ISU on the schedule than Purdue or Indiana, and that is simply common sense.
If cord cutting is the future and you may be right, which big 10 schools will make out like bandits, OSU, Mich, Neb. and maybe Penn. St., do you really think schools like NW and Iowa will be getting 30 to 35 million a year from an ala carte system?
Just shows your ignorance again, under the current contract each big 12 school gets to choose one game to broadcast on the own. ISU choose the UNI game, I am sure it was done to sell more tickets and force UNI fans that want to see the game to go to Ames. Texas will be doing the same thing with their game with ISU, it will be shown only on LHN and hopefully back here in Iowa like they have done in the past. You see the game is only going to be streamed and you of course being someone that hates ISU looks at it negatively. I am sure that networks are already bidding on that Iowa/North Dakota game left and right? Streaming is the future and ISU already has a network set up for it, is it perfect, no, but how many Iowa BB games last year in the preseason were only streamed through the Big 10 network? How is that any different than ISU/UNI being streamed on the Cyclone Network?
So instead of a real network the clowns choose cryclown TV? Brilliant move. Gotta really hand it to lord god Pollard on that one.
The difference Dick is that as stated football drives the train. Does ESPN pay for cryclown TV like they do for the LHN? They need content especially home content for Texas on the LHN. So saying isu is just like Texas shows how little isu grads understand about TV contracts.
Keep telling us how little you grasp though. It is very entertaining.
The Big Ten will continue to drive all TV contracts just as they always have. The question remains that no isu grad can answer. What makes isu a logical choice for the ACC or Pac-12 when the Texas Ten dissolves?
Does isu grad really think those leagues are going to kick someone out so they can take isu? Does isu grad really believe isu is more attractive than any of the other Texas Ten schools as well as Norte Dame, BYU, Cincinnati, UCONN Boise State and Memphis?
If you do I am sure you will buy the Bridge I have for sale won't you? Do you want to know where to send the check?
Where to begin, 'how is it any different?' Well one is the Big Ten stream and one is the Cyclone network and if you don't know or acknowledge the difference then you will be the new Herky/CyCity.
Nice transition from football to basketball.
Iowa/North Dakota won't be streamed I am guessing. Without looking at schedules I will guess that barring something crazy that week will get double the mentions in national media than ISU that week.
I do chuckle at the concept of picking the UNI game to stream to 'force' people to have to go to Ames to see the game. If you have to 'force' people to head to Ames, well what does that say about Ames and the excitement of matching up with ISU? Attendance says it has worked.
Jeff, do not start this ISU grad garbage, no one is saying kick anybody out except you. But if this great 64 team, four conference only deal is going to happen, 10 spots will have to be filled. The only school on your list that can go anywhere is ND, if the rest were such great schools to grab, they would already be in a P5 conference. Go back an look at the attendance of the schools you mention, outside of BYU, in Utah, hard to get too, and will not play on Sunday, and ND, Cin, UCONN, Boise, and Memphis draw no one, plus what is the academics at those schools not counting ND and BYU, they are horrible. Many on here describe Boise as a Junior College but I am sure in your mind the Pac 12 is just jumping to grab them.
So streaming a game from the BTN is just soooo much better than through Cyclone TV? Streaming is streaming, those that want to find and watch them game will. The ISU/UNI game will sell out, how many games did Iowa sellout last year, yes, I know they have 10,000 more seats, but they also started out the year 12-0, and have more fans. So how many did they sell out last year? None, would be the correct answer.
BTN vs Cyclone Network? Really? As far as people finding the game on a stream BTN will beat Cyclone, why? Because according to The New York Times Iowa has almost 3 times the number of fans that ISU does. It seems logical(not always accepted by some ISU supporters) that more people will look for the BTN stream, so yes it is better.
As far as attendance smack I would suggest looking at numbers, both last year and historically and get back to me. I am surprised at the number of people at ISU football but the tailgate is good, tickets are in general less and they have a nice stadium. But still less fans in the stands.
Wait.... Iowa has more fans? Doesn't that fly directly into the face of what some isu fans here on HR want us to now think/believe?
I'll pose the very same question to you that I have to others. What are the top ten attended football games in Ames, Iowa ever? How many of those have, as the opponent, either UNI or Iowa? Why is that the case when there is supposedly this ultra-fantastic conference with all of these better than anyone else teams coming to Ames on a regular basis?
Now, let's compare that to Iowa. I believe I can cite at least ten games (or many more if you prefer) that were sold-out and feature a conference opponent as the visiting team. Very same state. Several games played on the exact same date. Yet, one school has a relative handful of sold out game and several of them come thanks to an in-state opponent while the other program is able to attract fans even without the benefit of one of the local (instate) teams. Hmmmmm.
So when you played someone outside the state in Ames, what was your capacity filled percentage? Too bad you can't play Drake at home too. By the way in the recap of the 2015 season attendance for the Minnesota game was 70,585. Capacity is 70,585. Followed that up with 63k the morning after a snowstorm. I would say it is back to tracking pretty well thank you.
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So if the Remaining P5 conferences don't kick someone out then there are 9 spots assuming Notre Dame joins a league. That means at least one team from the Texas Ten doesn't get in and that doesn't even count BYU, UCONN, Boise State and Memphis all of which are much more attractive to the remaining Power Conference than isu would be.
Have fun with MACtion isu grad.
Better yet what was the attendance at Jack Trice after halftime? That will surely impress any conference or TV network.
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So having more fans 3 to 1 matter in the quality of streaming games, is what you are saying. Look I have said in the past I could root for Iowa if it was not the fanatic fringe that things Iowa is the right there with Harvard and Yale in academics, the football team is between Alabama, USC and LSU, and the basketball team is a little behind Duke and N Carolina. That Iowa City is the mecca of all college towns and Ames is just a total crap hole, and a game an IC is like going to heaven, nothing on earth can match it. Now, none of those things are true, The U of I, is a fine school, and does its job, the sports teams are ok, but world class in nothing but wrestling, and that program is going down hill fast. When was the last time they won the title, in a sport they used to dominate. As for Iowa City, it gets love for being one of the few places that underage students could go into the bars and drink, the tailgating at the stadium is horrible, unless you are wealthy, you either park a mile away, or in someone yard. The seating is jamming people in, with the persons knees in your back, and getting in and out is nearly impossible. Get off you high horse, you have a fine school and decent athletic teams, stop down grading everyone else, and enjoy what you have.
Look everyone, the isu fans have seen the light... isu is not in any jeopardy of ever being left out in the cold on this.
The Big Ten, the SEC, the Pac12 and the ACC will acquiesce and allow the mighty big xii to continue to exist sans a football conference championship game. Why not? Is there truly any advantage to having one less game and the time off to heal and prepare for the playoffs? I do not know why professional sports does not adopt this practice.
We have been told there are ten spots to fill and isu will definitely be one of the ten! No doubt about it. It is edict and will be done. That is that.
(Unless and until it is not.)
If you look at football record yes, then all those school would be more attractive than ISU, but who makes the final choice here? The presidents of the universities, not the ad or some sports writers. Being an AAU school is ISU's trump card, that will get them into one of the four conferences, not the big 10, but in either the ACC or Pac 12. Solid football attendance, good bb in men's and woman's will be enough. If the schools you mentioned are so great, why are they not already in a P5 league? Because they are not great choices, but keep saying to yourself that if expansion happens that the PAC 12 will take Boise over ISU, and we end up in the Mac. I am sure that hate for ISU is what keeps you going.
More condescending talk from an Iowa fan to a ISU fan, what is next, asking why I am posting here? ISU will get one of 10 spots, if you think I am wrong, then show me. The only thing ISU does not have in its favor is winning football games, attendance is there, so they leave at half time, they bought the ticket, they can leave anytime they want. How many people would leave a game at Iowa if they could reenter, a lot, just like they use too.
Now you are just being a total idiot. Nobody here has stated any of the things you posture. That is your jealousy and ignorance showing. You make it very easy to ridicule you by these very type of nonsensical rantings.
But, as long as you breach the subject(s). Which institution of higher learning, Iowa or isu has generally higher rankings? Which one, Iowa or isu has generally higher APR numbers? Which football program is so much closer to those elite programs that it is not even a question to be asked? Wrestling you say? Where has isu wrestling been for way too long a period of time? One might reasonably think that a school with what, all of six or so men's sports activities total, would be able to sustain at least a modicum of success in an activity so avidly pursued by those in nearly every high school in the entire state.
Under aged drinking? Are you on record as stating that under aged drinking does not take place in Ames, Iowa?
Take your own advice and crawl back into the hole you came from. You are worse than delusional. You lack any common sense at all.
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Sorry there Jeff, I did not know they recounted people after half time and refigured the total for attendance. Since we are talking counting people, how did Iowa announce sell out crowds for football games a few years ago, but you could go on line and buy dozens of tickets? Or in basketball four years ago, the crowd would be announced as 10k and only 4 to 5 K would be there at the game? Can Iowa not count, or were they just making the numbers up?
First, please never root for Iowa.
Next Ames is a craphole.....with great water from what I hear.
Next there is no comparison between going to historic Kinnick Stadium and the Ronald McDonald house. Not even close.
Wrestling going downhill fast? Spoken by a fan of a school that currently resides towards the bottom of said same hill.
Basically about 1 in 3 years since the turn of the century Iowa FB is in the top 10. No we are not Alabama but we are firmly entrenched in the next tier. Where would you place ISU?
You should quit while you are behind.
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