ADVERTISEMENT

Brody Grothus

Ray -- if you're still hanging around here, I've a question.

At the national tournament in Ames in '93, I remember you losing to Kevin Randleman in the semi's. Tough loss and I felt really awful, though my wild guess is that you felt worse.

However, driving south out of Hilton after the session was over, I remember seeing a lone wrestler out running in his sweats near the football stadium. Absolutely nobody else around. I remarked to my buddy in the car with me, "that's Brinzer." I was highly impressed that someone who had just lost such an important match would nevertheless be out in the cold March air around midnight getting a run in. Maybe you simply had to get some weight off, but my respect for you jumped a few notches. I've mentioned that experience to many, many people over the years.

Now, don't lie (;)), but was I right? Tell me I haven't been mistaken all these years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lowsingle07
He did have one, but he bullshitted us on the second one because his brother had a friend over that he wanted to hang with and he didn't want to drive from Waterloo to CR for 2 1/2 hour practice so he acted like he did when he had his first concussion. His brothers said it never happened and he finally caved in. The little dude is fine or he would be done wrestling forever.
 
I only post here because I get 3-5 responses on the Brody thread. Just keeping it going.
 
He did have one, but he bullshitted us on the second one because his brother had a friend over that he wanted to hang with and he didn't want to drive from Waterloo to CR for 2 1/2 hour practice so he acted like he did when he had his first concussion. His brothers said it never happened and he finally caved in. The little dude is fine or he would be done wrestling forever.

Wayment your 7-year old can drive? Has he killed himself a bear yet? I'm waving the bullshit flag on this one ;)
 
He did have one, but he bullshitted us on the second one because his brother had a friend over that he wanted to hang with and he didn't want to drive from Waterloo to CR for 2 1/2 hour practice so he acted like he did when he had his first concussion. His brothers said it never happened and he finally caved in. The little dude is fine or he would be done wrestling forever.

I for one am glad he didn't have a concussion.

However......now he's been caught lying...........

and Lyco 1990 is gonna be real upset. First Brinzer n Gable and now 7 year olds. Where will it end. Society falling apart at the seams.

At least we know it's all SanSouci's fault. Can't have a problem without someone to blame it on. Thanks for volunteering Sans. Good of you to take one for the rest of us who have made so many mistakes when younger and didn't get caught.......yet.

Is there a statute of limitations? Will Brucefan still be upset or bored? The saga continues.

Brody..... save us from ourselves. You are our only hope. HELP!!!

OBTW.....Celebration Party for Long at SPOONERS House at 4:00. Then we can all watch the Rose Bowl together.
 
I'm not quite sure whether I'm doing the right thing by keeping up a side conversation in a thread on young Mr. Grothus. I get the sense that some people are enjoying the novelty of a really long thread, but hijacking normally isn't a good thing. But for now, I guess I'll reply here.

I want to note a discrepancy, by the way: Dave Schultz's last year at Wisconsin was 1986. I didn't start hanging out with Dave and Nancy until later, so I'm not quite clear on the details, except that the gum thing happened. The other funny thing I recall from that trip was having some athletes running around sneaking looks at us, and talking about Dave. One of them whispered, "That's his wife? Holy ****, dude, she's ****ing hot!" I'm also thinking that we were in LaCrosse, rather than Madison.

Sorry. Second-rate story telling, but you get what you pay for.

You mentioned you spent some time at Foxcatcher. Can you share a little about your experiences with DuPont? Maybe you didn't interact with him enough to comment much, but he was clearly an enigmatic figure and I'm sure my fellow Hawk fans would be interested in your take.

A little, yes. John was a complicated guy, so it's hard to summarize.

I wanted to like him. A really rich guy who was intelligent and eccentric, who loved wrestling, and who had a lot of the most interesting people in the sport living on his farm seemed like just the kind of person I wanted to meet. Unfortunately, the weird stuff he did and said wasn't the sort that was all that enjoyable. A lot of the time, you kind of went, "Eww."

He was smart, though. He was also imperious and manipulative; he had a sense of entitlement and superiority which he'd been taught, and which went back to his family's origins as French nobility before the revolution. He controlled people by giving them things, and created his own little world that way. Many of the people who inhabited that world contributed to his problems by going along with absolutely anything which struck his fancy.

And he was nuts... sometimes. Sometimes not. That could make you wonder whether it was all an act. I think the truth is, you can't completely separate the two: a mentally ill person can still put on an act, and play up the crazy stuff. But some of the crazy stuff was just genuinely crazy. He wasn't right.

John was socially inept. Now obviously anything I say about how he grew up is not first-hand knowledge, or even second-hand, since I never talked to him much about it, but from my understanding he was isolated for most of his youth, raised by servants, and ignored by his parents. He had one friend growing up, who used to come over... until he found out his parents were paying the kid's family to bring him there. At one point, Nancy said, "I love you John!" (She tends to say that kind of thing to the people around her.) John replied, "That's the second time anyone's ever said that to me."

And he was a drug-abusing, alcoholic asshole who treated people like crap.

And, occasionally, he was a nice, generous guy who cared about people and wanted very badly to be liked.

There's a passage from one of Tolkien's letters (which I wish I could find) about his Fallen World theology, and about the person you were supposed to be. It reminds me of John: every now and then, you could see the person John should have been, in a better world. But you didn't see it often enough, and it showed less and less over time.

I don't want to sound overly sympathetic, and I certainly don't want to excuse him for anything; after the shooting, it would have been perfectly just to simply let Mark pop his head off. But he was a person, and that's my best take on him.

Watching Steve Carell's portrayal of John Dupont in the movie was disturbing. I can't imagine what spending time around the actual man must have been like. From reading past articles I recall a quote from Kevin Jackson that he was sitting next to Dupont in a living room and John asked him if he saw some object float through the wall.

Rest assured, things floating through the wall was on the very tame side.

Steve Carell really did look the part, but he was too heavy, and looked too healthy. I also missed some twitchy mannerisms.

The movie was really weird for me. It was like seeing things you remembered, but everything was a bit wrong. And weirder still, some people I knew (or at least was accustomed to seeing around) were supposed to be other people, like Jake Herbert (one of my club athletes) playing Mike Sheetz. And then you had Mark Schultz weighing in Channing Tatum, who was supposed to be Mark Schultz.

Anyway, I'll tell you something about spending time on the Farm that you wouldn't get at all from the film: it was frequently hilarious. Dave wasn't funny in the movie; in real life, he had a great sense of humor, and was often working on some clever, off-the-wall project. As for the supporting cast, straight-laced guys like Kenny Monday would never have lived there; you had a bunch of the creative oddballs of the sport in one place, with a lot of toys, and a crazy guy running the show. The movie wasn't weird enough, because I don't think anyone would have believed the weirder stuff, or understood why people stayed.

If someone made a movie of only the serious, sad parts of your life, it could all be true and still paint a misleading picture. That was more of a problem for me than the liberties the film took with the facts. But it would be very hard to get across a good idea of what it was like, in a film of any reasonable length.
 
Ray, We'd like to rank the story as the "Best we've ever read on this board" but we are kind of harsh with grades.

Fortunately, it's unlikely to pull down my GPA.

Wow...that is THE Ray Brinzer! I though it was just an handle.

The long-winded rambling gave me away, didn't it?

On a serious note, lying is only universally bad for those who believe they are in some religion/covenant in which it is universally bad. That is my case.

Yeah, if you make a vow to not do something, you should take it seriously. That doesn't resolve the underlying dilemma, though: you could, hypothetically, find yourself in a situation where the consequences of refusing to lie were catastrophic. For me, the hypothetical possibility of such a thing changes how I would regard entering into such a pact. I would still need to answer the question, "What would I do if...?" only now I've upped the ante from "tell a lie" to "break my oath".

I think one of the better answers to this would be to rely on faith: God/the gods/fate/the Flying Spaghetti Monster/whichever will not put me in such a situation. Though that does raise the question of what it would mean if you did find yourself in such a situation; what would the message be?

For my part, I have the exact opposite conviction: I take a vow never to lie, and inevitably the fate of the world will wind up depending on my telling a small fib. I lead an ironic life.

Ray is a smart guy. smarter than some give him credit for.

This would be what is known as, "damning with faint praise." :)

Wait, what? What do you mean when you write "I lie to my children about Santa Claus"?
smiley-shocked001.gif

I tell them that if they're not good, Santa won't bring them anything. In reality, Santa's too soft for that.

Wow, watching some of those old matches you just don't see many creative takedowns like that anymore. Quite honestly wrestling was a lot more fun to watch back then.

Quite honestly, it was probably more fun to do. This gets into a really big topic, but I'll give you a few of my ideas on it.

First, we play follow-the-leader too much with technique. Coaches watch the DI championships, see what the athletes are doing, and decide that that's how you do it if you want to be great. Because if the people at the top of Mount Incredible are doing it that way, it must be right.

The problem is, that's actually a very skewed view. The better you understand the sport, the more you realize that the people who win NCAAs wrestle the way they do because they happen to wrestle that way, not because it's the only way to get there. The fact is, most of them could be a lot better than they are, and you could be seeing a much wider technical range than you are. The follow-the-leader approach is circular: the people you're following are created by the process of following.

I also believe we've rather mis-learned the lesson of positional wrestling. Back in the '80s, the Soviets were masters of this. We watched them and said, "That's amazing! They're just never out of position!" Whereas we just seemed to be throwing stuff at the wall to see what stuck.

So we went to work on it, and we got better at it. But we got the idea that the whole solution can be, "Never come out of position." For a large part of your career, it can seem true. A strong kid who never comes out of position can win Junior Nationals just by capitalizing on the mistakes his opponents make.

The problem is, that road comes to a dead end. Defense isn't that hard to learn, and eventually people stop making obvious mistakes. Then you have a bunch of guys standing around, hoping something will open up. You can be respectable that way, but you'll never be great.

Most of the really dominant wrestlers you see out there — Saitiev, Kudukhov, Smith, Brands, Jordanov, Gable, etc. — are aggressive, and technically deviant. They create action, and they force their opponents to play a game they're not used to. You can't get there by playing follow-the-leader; in fact, that's moving in the opposite direction. Being aggressive, taking risks, and defining your own style is more fun and has a much higher ceiling.

We need to stop being so impressed with terms like "All American". It's not incredible if your son becomes a competent, respectable wrestler, and therefore becomes an All American. That's like saying that you're an incredible carpenter because the houses you make don't fall down. But if you coach a kid to be a tough competitor who can find ways to win, who knows his craft and can learn on his own, you've done something. As a by-product, don't be surprised if he becomes an All American or better.

I think there's so much pressure to be undefeated an a 4x champ these days that people wrestle to not lose. I don't think it was as big an issue back then and wrestlers weren't as concerned about losing that they let the fur fly!

When I was at Oklahoma State I was introduced to rock climbing. I liked it. I decided to approach it seriously: I would climb as if there was no rope, with the mindset that if I fell, I'd die. Like I was doing it "for real".

At the same time, I was working out with Pat Smith. It was weird wrestling him. He was so relaxed, it almost didn't seem like he was taking it seriously. But even when you knew he was working hard, and taking it absolutely seriously, he never tightened up. It wouldn't have helped.

At the Olympic Training Center, after I left Iowa, I needed a computer. A friend who worked in for a big company got me three broken 486s (which were fairly high-powered machines at the time). I took them apart, and managed to make one good computer from the parts. I installed Linux. I then realized that this was different than working on any of the (expensive) computers I'd gotten to use in the past. Having installed the OS, I knew that no matter what happened, I wasn't going to break a machine which cost thousands of dollars. I could always wipe the disk, reinstall, and get back to having a good working computer.

I became very good with computers. I never became any good at rock climbing. As it turns out, the freedom to experiment without worrying about the outcome is critical to development. You can take risks, learn how things work, and then make better choices (and take smarter risks) when things really do matter.

One of the larger changes I've seen in our wrestling culture has been the growth of a "high-stakes" mentality in youth wrestling. I went to tournaments because I bugged my parents to take me to them, and hitched rides with other wrestlers. I took it a lot further than many kids, but I think their basic experience wasn't that much different. People took winning seriously (e.g. Mr. Kolat and his cattle prod), but we weren't micromanaged so much.

These days, parents commonly drive the process, and feel they have to get everything right from the outset. We don't let kids make decisions, and we punish them for taking risks. It's not surprising that we wind up with fearful wrestlers who don't know what to do without instructions, and who wrestle like they're constipated.

Ray -- if you're still hanging around here, I've a question.

At the national tournament in Ames in '93, I remember you losing to Kevin Randleman in the semi's. Tough loss and I felt really awful, though my wild guess is that you felt worse.

However, driving south out of Hilton after the session was over, I remember seeing a lone wrestler out running in his sweats near the football stadium. Absolutely nobody else around. I remarked to my buddy in the car with me, "that's Brinzer." I was highly impressed that someone who had just lost such an important match would nevertheless be out in the cold March air around midnight getting a run in. Maybe you simply had to get some weight off, but my respect for you jumped a few notches. I've mentioned that experience to many, many people over the years.

Now, don't lie (;)), but was I right? Tell me I haven't been mistaken all these years.

Sorry... I have no idea. I could have been running to cut weight, or I could have been running as penitence for losing. Or I could have been eating Ding Dongs and drinking Mountain Dew while some other sucker went for a run.

Did he have a hood on? I mean, I'd think my hair would have been kind of hard to mistake. :)
 
Last edited:
Awesome stuff, Ray! Thanks a lot for your thoughts about DuPont and Foxcatcher. The whole story is obviously tragic, but I find Foxcatcher to be a fascinating sociologic study. It was a sort of social laboratory, run by a mad scientist whose madness oddly goes all the way back to his roots in French nobility, of all things. Very interesting stuff.

Really enjoy your input, and I'm sure other Iowa fans feel the same way. Please always feel free to chime in.

By the way, I watched that match at Iowa State where you recorded the quick fall just recently, as it was posted above in the thread. I've seen it a number of times but was reminded of your reaction to the camera afterward. Absolutely classic! Loved the smile and the wave. Hilarious stuff. And a perfectly executed inside trip, by the way. Don't mean to be blowing smoke, but I really enjoyed your contributions to wrestling. I wish our sport had more free spirits like yourself who loved wrestling so much that they weren't afraid to try daring moves, take risks now and then, and allow themselves to reach their full potential on the mat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AFHawk86
Thanks for posting your replies Ray.

OBTW....this thread is especially HiJack City. So come back often.
 
Sorry... I have no idea. I could have been running to cut weight, or I could have been running as penitence for losing. Or I could have been eating Ding Dongs and drinking Mountain Dew while some other sucker went for a run.

Did he have a hood on? I mean, I'd think my hair would have been kind of hard to mistake. :)

I think it was the hair. You might have had those horn-rimmed glasses on, too.
 
Ray, anything but damning with faint praise.
Not my intention. I know ho intelligent you are. The qualifier was meant to say something different. Nothing but respect. My apologies.
 
Ray, anything but damning with faint praise.
Not my intention. I know ho intelligent you are. The qualifier was meant to say something different. Nothing but respect. My apologies.

Ah say, it's a joke, son, a joke!

foghorn-promo.jpg
 
What happened to your web site. Used to read your stuff a lot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huck
Ray,
I really enjoy your posts and thoughts. Wrestling HAS become too stiff I think. I'm so tired of watching guys more afraid to lose than they are wanting to win.
Oh, and thanks for helping to make this Brody Grothus thread last. Willie will be so pleased.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HIWILLE
Yeah, if you make a vow to not do something, you should take it seriously. That doesn't resolve the underlying dilemma, though: you could, hypothetically, find yourself in a situation where the consequences of refusing to lie were catastrophic. For me, the hypothetical possibility of such a thing changes how I would regard entering into such a pact. I would still need to answer the question, "What would I do if...?" only now I've upped the ante from "tell a lie" to "break my oath".

I think one of the better answers to this would be to rely on faith: God/the gods/fate/the Flying Spaghetti Monster/whichever will not put me in such a situation. Though that does raise the question of what it would mean if you did find yourself in such a situation; what would the message be?
Yes, some early Christians found themselves in exactly those "catastrophic" situation. A man would watch his family one by one be killed, because he refused to lie and deny the Christ. As you said it comes down to faith. To many it was catastrophic to watch the atrocity. To the man, his family was simply transferred to paradise and wouldn't come back even if given the choice.

I'm often asked the proverbial "If you were hiding Jews and the Nazi's knocked on your door, would you lie about having Jews?" My response to the Nazis would be, "Would you really believe me if I just said, 'No.'? You're going to search anyway. Do what you must."
 
Last edited:
Yes, some early Christians found themselves in exactly those "catastrophic" situation. A man would watch his family one by one be killed, because he refused to lie and deny the Christ. As you said it comes down to faith. To many it was catastrophic to watch the atrocity. To the man, his family was simply transferred to paradise and wouldn't come back even if given the choice.

I'm often asked the proverbial "If you were hiding Jews and the Nazi's knocked oin your door, would you lie about having Jews?" My response to the Nazis would be, "Would you really believe me if I just said, 'No.'? You're going to search anyway. Do what you must."

That's a clear, rational position, and I respect your willingness to stick to it. It will probably not surprise you to learn that I condone lying, cheating, stealing and killing to protect the innocent under such circumstances, and hope that I would have the determination to do these and do them well. When the going gets tough, you pick your poison.
 
Thanks for sharing Ray. ESPN did a 30 for 30 called the Prince of Pennsylvania. A documentary on the Dupont farm. I found it to be very entertaining and unbelievably sad. Dave seemed like such a great human being. The type of guy that everyone looked to. I would highly recommend the documentary to anyone especially if you watched the movie Foxcatcher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WWDMHawkeye
back to Grothus for a moment. Not sure how many of you caught this interview with Tom after the Midlands, he mentions that Grothus is back, he's strong, and they held him out more as a precaution than anything else (possibly just not ready for the grind of a tourney). Give it a listen if you feel so inclined: http://www.flowrestling.org/video/889809-tom-brands-talks-midlands-and-terry
 
Hey- let's not get too carried away here with talking too much about "Brody Grothus"...

back to Grothus for a moment. Not sure how many of you caught this interview with Tom after the Midlands, he mentions that Grothus is back, he's strong, and they held him out more as a precaution than anything else (possibly just not ready for the grind of a tourney). Give it a listen if you feel so inclined: http://www.flowrestling.org/video/889809-tom-brands-talks-midlands-and-terry
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huck and wyldhawk9
. . .

By the way, I watched that match at Iowa State where you recorded the quick fall just recently, as it was posted above in the thread. I've seen it a number of times but was reminded of your reaction to the camera afterward. Absolutely classic! Loved the smile and the wave. Hilarious stuff. And a perfectly executed inside trip, by the way. Don't mean to be blowing smoke, but I really enjoyed your contributions to wrestling. I wish our sport had more free spirits like yourself who loved wrestling so much that they weren't afraid to try daring moves, take risks now and then, and allow themselves to reach their full potential on the mat.

I always felt sorry for Mulvihill. He took a big risk going to his back like that. 9 times out of 10 you get pinned doing that.
 
The questions are: Will Brody wrestle on the 8th? Will he wear his singlet backwards?(Erickson style) Will Illinois show up? Valid questions since they were snowed under by 2.5 inches for Midlands. Ray, please give us your opinion? and do not lie about it.;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lsanders20
The questions are: Will Brody wrestle on the 8th? Will he wear his singlet backwards?(Erickson style) Will Illinois show up? Valid questions since they were snowed under by 2.5 inches for Midlands. Ray, please give us your opinion? and do not lie about it.;)
Oh! and one more question. How soon can we get Stanford on the schedule? That's all
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huck
Ray - I really appreciate your opinions on the current state of wrestling. I agree with most of your analysis. What is your opinion on the current scrambling techniques (ankle diving, passing, etc.)? Is that style good, bad, or neutral for developing good wrestling?
 
Oh! and one more question. How soon can we get Stanford on the schedule? That's all

Wouldn't that be classic? At intermission, once the team score is something like 20-0, we could bring in a few yahoos dressed in funky black and gold clothes with goofy hats, have them dance around the mat banging on skateboards and sinks, and have a couple of Iowa students do a voice-over insulting anything and everything related to Stanford and the Palo Alto area. Maybe throw in some insults about how financially inept the state of California is while we're at it. Would be a nice touch. After the Stanford "band's" kind gesture to Iowa and farmers, I think it would only be polite to return the favor.
 
Ray-
The first article I recall about you as an Iowa wrestler included a story about how your dad wanted to name you "Beowulf" but your mom was against it. Any chance that that story is true?
Vall​
 
  • Like
Reactions: butchinmi
Ray - I really appreciate your opinions on the current state of wrestling. I agree with most of your analysis. What is your opinion on the current scrambling techniques (ankle diving, passing, etc.)? Is that style good, bad, or neutral for developing good wrestling?

I have a number of replies pending, but you get to jump the queue because I'd rather talk about wrestling itself.

I've had conversations with several coaches who've complained about this trend. I take a different view of it. I see it as illuminating a failure in our more conventional technical lines.

A little background. We talk about leg attacks as being part of "the basics". Insofar as "basic" means "fundamental to our approach", that's fine; shooting is characteristic of American wrestling in the same way that counterpoint is characteristic of Baroque music. But it's not "basic" in the sense of "easy". Shooting well is hard, and doing it without opening yourself up to counterattack takes a lot of practice and precision.

The problem is, you don't necessarily realize how vulnerable your shots make you unless someone exploits them. Traditionally, we don't teach counterattacks (except reshots); we teach blocking and sprawling. As a result, our shots tend to have major weaknesses. We practice them with the assumption that people will defend against them the way we would. Even if you're aware of some of the other issues (hip-bumping, locking over the top, taking a double wrist lock, going to a crotch lock, etc.), it's hard to tighten up your attack to disallow them when there's no one around who does them well.

So this is where I get a fed up with a certain traditional, judgmental strain in our coaching culture. Shooting is "good", The Funk is "junk", and when your athletes' shots aren't working, you complain about their opponents. As opposed to, say, fixing your shots.

There's a process to this. I come up with a nice attack, and start scoring a lot of points with it. You come up with a response, which either stops it or counters it. Then I go back to work on how to defeat your defense. Through a back-and-forth process, we explore the problem space and advance our understanding of the sport.

So, the development of this kind of defense should be good for wrestling. I think that's true even if it turns out to be a refuted line of play: that is, if we learn that when both athletes make optimal choices, the defense fails. Or, for that matter, if (as I think unlikely) it turned out that most leg attacks are ultimately refuted.

What's not good for wrestling is failing to push the state of the art forward. If you're going to teach your athletes to shoot, teach them to beat these defenses. If you're not going to do that, pick a different line of attack, and avoid the problem. But don't teach something which used to be good enough and complain about the results.

As far as my own coaching: I'd teach this sort of thing as what I call "back pocket moves". They're not your first line of defense, and maybe not even your second... but it's a dangerous wrestler who, when all his normal tactics have failed, and he seems beaten, still has some tricks in his back pocket. A scramble, to me, indicates a failure earlier on, and when breaking down a match where we did this, I'd be asking, "Why did we get to the point where this was necessary?" But failures are going to happen, and I wouldn't criticize an athlete for making the best of a bad situation.
 
What happened to your web site. Used to read your stuff a lot.

I got tired of keeping a shrine to myself. It was fun at first ("at first" being 1994), but it didn't serve much of a purpose, and some things don't wear well over time. Like having shaggy hair and wearing tie dye t-shirts as a middle-aged man.

But I'm glad you enjoyed it. I do occasionally think about reviving it; I might be able to find an actual purpose for it.

Ray-
The first article I recall about you as an Iowa wrestler included a story about how your dad wanted to name you "Beowulf" but your mom was against it. Any chance that that story is true?

Yep, that's true. "Plato" was another candidate. My dad was heavily into ancient literature, at one point. Happily, I got a more lenient reception for my ideas; my son is named "Johannes", after (at least in my mind) Johannes Kepler, and my daughter is named "Astrid", after Astrid Eiriksdottir, a viking queen.

Thanks for sharing Ray. ESPN did a 30 for 30 called the Prince of Pennsylvania. A documentary on the Dupont farm. I found it to be very entertaining and unbelievably sad. Dave seemed like such a great human being. The type of guy that everyone looked to. I would highly recommend the documentary to anyone especially if you watched the movie Foxcatcher.

Look for a really good documentary coming out (hopefully) in February. Nancy and a couple of film guys from the wrestling community have been working on one for a few years, which will contain a lot stuff nobody's seen before: home movies, interviews with people who were there (e.g. me), competition footage released by the USOC for the project, etc.

The questions are: Will Brody wrestle on the 8th? Will he wear his singlet backwards?(Erickson style) Will Illinois show up? Valid questions since they were snowed under by 2.5 inches for Midlands. Ray, please give us your opinion? and do not lie about it.;)

Okay... to be perfectly honest: I have no idea. I'm not a wrestling "fan", and I don't follow what's going on. I couldn't name more than a handful of current NCAA athletes. When I watch, it's generally because I know somebody, or there's a reasonable chance I'm going to learn something.

Oh! and one more question. How soon can we get Stanford on the schedule? That's all

Make a case that it's a good idea. Present it to Tom and Jason Borrelli. Then bug them about it as necessary.
 
I got tired of keeping a shrine to myself. It was fun at first ("at first" being 1994), but it didn't serve much of a purpose, and some things don't wear well over time. Like having shaggy hair and wearing tie dye t-shirts as a middle-aged man.

But I'm glad you enjoyed it. I do occasionally think about reviving it; I might be able to find an actual purpose for it.



Yep, that's true. "Plato" was another candidate. My dad was heavily into ancient literature, at one point. Happily, I got a more lenient reception for my ideas; my son is named "Johannes", after (at least in my mind) Johannes Kepler, and my daughter is named "Astrid", after Astrid Eiriksdottir, a viking queen.



Look for a really good documentary coming out (hopefully) in February. Nancy and a couple of film guys from the wrestling community have been working on one for a few years, which will contain a lot stuff nobody's seen before: home movies, interviews with people who were there (e.g. me), competition footage released by the USOC for the project, etc.



Okay... to be perfectly honest: I have no idea. I'm not a wrestling "fan", and I don't follow what's going on. I couldn't name more than a handful of current NCAA athletes. When I watch, it's generally because I know somebody, or there's a reasonable chance I'm going to learn something.



Make a case that it's a good idea. Present it to Tom and Jason Borrelli. Then bug them about it as necessary.
Thanks Ray, great to hear from ya. Chime in more often, love hearing about techniques and so forth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Huck
Thanks for the response, Ray. You have a unique, but extremely intelligent, take on wrestling. I'd think you could get a decent amount of hits on a blog if you wrote some posts like your posts on this thread. I'd be there every day.

I think Ben Askren exemplified your response. He was great at the funk, but also had counters to funk, and counters to counters. He was always trying to innovate in the scramble positions that are currently common and made it a science.
 
Ray I wish to apologize. I deleted my posts because after further thought I was overreacting. Sometimes I become over zealous about ethics and was totally wrong to challenge yours . As a former wrestler, I react first and think later. I have read your recent posts and find them enlightening. We need to come together a a wrestling brotherhood and keep our sport relevant (see Title IX or the recent Olympic debacle). Please accept my sincere apology.
 
Ray I wish to apologize. I deleted my posts because after further thought I was overreacting. Sometimes I become over zealous about ethics and was totally wrong to challenge yours . As a former wrestler, I react first and think later. I have read your recent posts and find them enlightening. We need to come together a a wrestling brotherhood and keep our sport relevant (see Title IX or the recent Olympic debacle). Please accept my sincere apology.

I wasn't particularly offended, but I appreciate the sentiment. I do think carpentry has a good policy for such things: measure twice, cut once. That becomes more important the more you care about the subject, and about making the right call.

In any case, some interesting things were said as a result of it. Now I know that HoundedHawk would be a good fellow to hold my wallet, and a lousy partner in crime. :)
 
Funny how a few thoughts outside the typical from a respected free-thinker like Ray get such positive, even effusive responses. Maybe there is room for changing the way the sport is marketed, scored, taught, practiced ect. Right now, it's one or two bad Olympic Year shakedowns from the farther shores of oblivion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gobblin
Ray I wish to apologize. I deleted my posts because after further thought I was overreacting. Sometimes I become over zealous about ethics and was totally wrong to challenge yours . As a former wrestler, I react first and think later. I have read your recent posts and find them enlightening. We need to come together a a wrestling brotherhood and keep our sport relevant (see Title IX or the recent Olympic debacle). Please accept my sincere apology.

Great post Lyco. Welcome back.

Stay sober.... OK ;););)
 
Sorry... I have no idea. I could have been running to cut weight, or I could have been running as penitence for losing. Or I could have been eating Ding Dongs and drinking Mountain Dew while some other sucker went for a run.

Did he have a hood on? I mean, I'd think my hair would have been kind of hard to mistake. :)
In my best Homer Simpson impersonation................. yuuuummmmm, Mountain Dew and Ding Dongs!:D
 
RAY.....Just trying to check if you may have "misremembered that bout with Matt White. I kinda feel like a "fact checker on CNN" but I remember Matt having a really screwed up knee late in his career so went to the PSU archives to check Matt's career. I guess Matts's record may be "misprinted also"........please don't take this as critcism. I happened to have followed you and admit....your quirky gumby doll is the stuff of legends!

Back to the archives. It shows Matt beat you 2-1 while you were at Okie State and you beat him 11-5 (still a 6 pt difference ;-). It also shows White going 2-2 after your bout and apparently did not qualify for the NCAAs (still equals no points at the NCAAs).

Matt's career ended badly because of that knee and my wife and I cringed every time he went on the mat. I saw the match between you and Matt as just a match that fans of PA wrestling wrestling and your HS, I believe it was North Alleghany, wish hadn't happened.

Personally, I love the stuff you put on the boards and hope you come over to the PSU board as there are a large number of fans that have followed you and would love to hear from you!

PSU,
If you choose not to come over, I will look for your post when I intrude here ;-0

Have you had any contact with Matt??? Would love hear how he is doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ray Brinzer
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT