I just want to thank Lyco for ensuring this thread breeched 16 pages. You're a swell guy, thanks for your contributions.
Brody Grothus
- Thread starter HIWILLE
- Start date
there are some p st posters who bring some good discussion to us, I like to watch penn. st. matches, I evan respect cael for his wrestling and coaching , but it seems like at least once a week someone comes on here and destroys any good will I have for the whole bunch of them.
Ok, here I go.
The Hawkeye fan base is the most passionate, grounded people you will meet in the sport. So, Lyco, if you wanted to have a discussion about ethics, you chose poorly by coming to the Iowa board, and then ridiculing a former fan favorite, Hawkeye wrestler, WHO WAS JOKING AROUND! You choose to raise your kids how you want, and quit shoveling your beliefs down our throats. And, of all people to ridicule.....
Thank you Ray for stopping by and posting some great stories. Please, come back again and again.
The Hawkeye fan base is the most passionate, grounded people you will meet in the sport. So, Lyco, if you wanted to have a discussion about ethics, you chose poorly by coming to the Iowa board, and then ridiculing a former fan favorite, Hawkeye wrestler, WHO WAS JOKING AROUND! You choose to raise your kids how you want, and quit shoveling your beliefs down our throats. And, of all people to ridicule.....
Thank you Ray for stopping by and posting some great stories. Please, come back again and again.
Ok, you came to this board to start something with the members. I've seen your other posts on other threads, and you're only here to rile us up. So, get your jollys in now, Troll.
Can you imagine the hate Lyco must have for Cael. Cael taking Andrew Long is one of the most unethical coaching moves ever made. Perhaps only matched by what Cael did to his former coach.
Good news, guys. My seven year old hasn't wrestle more than 30 seconds yet this year. Last night it was under a minute for three wrestlers for all three, including a state champion. All In his Iowa singlet. My other boys pinned their way through too.
Lyco the only reason we are keeping you around is because you are adding to our length in the epic Brody Grothus thread. Nobody cares what you really think.
Yeah whatever dude. Penn State is way better than your elementary school kids.
What?? How can that be? His kids once ran through the Blue Grass youth tourney. I'd love to see anyone from Penn St. come close to doing that!
I thought your 7 year old was out with concussion issues? Don't let Lyco catch you fibbing.
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Okay, I have to beg everyone's pardon for descending from entertainment to tedious philosophizing. I don't actually mind someone bringing up ethical considerations, though I don't find the ones offered very compelling. But in the spirit of honest dialogue, I'll address them.
If you pursue wrestling far enough, you're going to have to make serious ethical decisions... which, in my opinion, is part of the greatness of the sport. I think you're missing an important opportunity if you don't ask questions about morality, based on your experiences.
I do, however, think the point under discussion is a fairly trivial one. A more interesting one (to me) passed without comment: "Gable put me in Keith Trammell's spot without a wrestle-off." I am rather sympathetic to the point made above about the soldiers and the prisoners: when you're accustomed to making decisions which have significant consequences, it's hard to be serious about nonsense rules which solve no real problems.
Still, even small questions have answers. Let me say flat out: I don't believe in slavish adherence to rules. I see that as a bad model of ethics, following which will cause bad things to happen. That's not a moral compromise for me, it's a moral conviction. You should not follow rules without regard for their justice and consequences.
Here's a similar point:
No, it's certainly not universally bad.
Case in point: during the standoff with John du Pont, the police turned off the heat in his house. John asked the negotiator if he could come out and fix the problem. The negotiator told him he could... and when John came out, they arrested him.
Not to put too fine a point on the matter: the negotiator lied. Was it the right thing to do? If it is the duty of the police to try to capture a suspect and bring him to trial, rather than kill him in a raid, I would say yes.
Likewise, if I am a captured soldier, I would not have a problem giving my enemy false information. If I thought my friend was suicidal, I might lie to him about where his gun was. And to be perfectly honest about lying, I lie to my children about Santa Claus.
On the other hand, the fact is I seldom lie, and I would regard doing so without very good reason as dishonorable amongst friends, or even friendly strangers. So let me clarify a few points about my story:
If you pursue wrestling far enough, you're going to have to make serious ethical decisions... which, in my opinion, is part of the greatness of the sport. I think you're missing an important opportunity if you don't ask questions about morality, based on your experiences.
I do, however, think the point under discussion is a fairly trivial one. A more interesting one (to me) passed without comment: "Gable put me in Keith Trammell's spot without a wrestle-off." I am rather sympathetic to the point made above about the soldiers and the prisoners: when you're accustomed to making decisions which have significant consequences, it's hard to be serious about nonsense rules which solve no real problems.
Still, even small questions have answers. Let me say flat out: I don't believe in slavish adherence to rules. I see that as a bad model of ethics, following which will cause bad things to happen. That's not a moral compromise for me, it's a moral conviction. You should not follow rules without regard for their justice and consequences.
Here's a similar point:
No, it's certainly not universally bad.
Case in point: during the standoff with John du Pont, the police turned off the heat in his house. John asked the negotiator if he could come out and fix the problem. The negotiator told him he could... and when John came out, they arrested him.
Not to put too fine a point on the matter: the negotiator lied. Was it the right thing to do? If it is the duty of the police to try to capture a suspect and bring him to trial, rather than kill him in a raid, I would say yes.
Likewise, if I am a captured soldier, I would not have a problem giving my enemy false information. If I thought my friend was suicidal, I might lie to him about where his gun was. And to be perfectly honest about lying, I lie to my children about Santa Claus.
On the other hand, the fact is I seldom lie, and I would regard doing so without very good reason as dishonorable amongst friends, or even friendly strangers. So let me clarify a few points about my story:
- I think the rule about separate rooms is stupid. If someone (on another team, for instance) did break that rule, it would not bother me.
- There was, in fact, a curtain. Gable arranged things so as to abide the rule.
- I intentionally wrote so as not to be clear about what Gable actually did.
- I do not intend the passage to be taken seriously. I'm no more trying to deceive you than if I said, "A duck walks into a bar and orders a beer...", when in fact no duck actually did that.
- I do not regard humor in this context as inappropriate. See point 1.
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It sharpens my mind daily to come on here and try to figure out who is being sarcastic and who is really just that dumb. Thank you to everyone who contributes to this mental workout.
Awesome post, Ray. You encapsulated what 99% of those reading the board understood based on your initial account of the curtain in the Iowa room. Those of us with common sense and a sense of humor got it. And your assessment of the moral issues at play was spot on.
You mentioned you spent some time at Foxcatcher. Can you share a little about your experiences with DuPont? Maybe you didn't interact with him enough to comment much, but he was clearly an enigmatic figure and I'm sure my fellow Hawk fans would be interested in your take.
Was your post sarcasm or ......???
Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. Lyco - give it up you will lose the ethics / honesty card you are playing unless you are not a fan of Carl and his ethics.
Here's another good brain teaser for you if that one starts to wear off: Put a troll on Ignore, then try to guess from the content of the posts after his what he might have said to tick everyone off. No points if the subsequent posters quote him in their replies.
Watching Steve Carell's portrayal of John Dupont in the movie was disturbing. I can't imagine what spending time around the actual man must have been like. From reading past articles I recall a quote from Kevin Jackson that he was sitting next to Dupont in a living room and John asked him if he saw some object float through the wall.
Ray, We'd like to rank the story as the "Best we've ever read on this board" but we are kind of harsh with grades.
Concerning lying Ray says the following.
Since Ray believes lying is sometimes necessary for the good I suggest his stories may be lies so he can do some "good" around here.
On a serious note, lying is only universally bad for those who believe they are in some religion/covenant in which it is universally bad. That is my case.
Since Ray believes lying is sometimes necessary for the good I suggest his stories may be lies so he can do some "good" around here.
On a serious note, lying is only universally bad for those who believe they are in some religion/covenant in which it is universally bad. That is my case.
Ray is a smart guy. smarter than some give him credit for. If I take him meaning correctly, he was not saying lying is ok. He stated that there are times, call them one-offs or whatever, where your actions should be weighed against the greater good. No set of rules should be followed blindly or without pushing back on what seems unreasonable. Not saying right/wrong is subjective. Ray wrote a story about a time that was not easy for him. He through in a little "wink-wink, bob's your uncle" into the narrative to keep it light. If there was a serious infraction or something immoral going on, he would have not mentioned it at all. I little too much taken seriously here. Thanks for the story Ray. I have read many of your writing and find you a great writer. Wish you would write a fictionalized book on the things you know. Anyway, thanks.
Love watching this old stuff, seen it many times, but Thanks for posting it. Hard not to get a chuckle out of that Brinzer match. Can never get enough of Jim Zalesky rag-dolling Nate Carr in Hilton Coliseum. Maybe the only time in Jim Zalesky's career he let himself celebrate a little bit! Ha! (pretty stoic dude, great Hawk) Great stuff.
Wait, what? What do you mean when you write "I lie to my children about Santa Claus"?
I think there's so much pressure to be undefeated an a 4x champ these days that people wrestle to not lose. I don't think it was as big an issue back then and wrestlers weren't as concerned about losing that they let the fur fly!
After watching Andrew Long destroying everyone, I think the coaching staff made the best move of the year on not having Brody wrestle. Both of his arms may have been torn off by Long.
He tells them there is no Santa.Wait, what? What do you mean when you write "I lie to my children about Santa Claus"?
We thought he had another one so we said he was done. Turns out he was full of shit on the clothesline bs. He's back and will be in Indiana representing Iowa. He hasn't wrestled over 40 seconds yet this year in Iowa. He could be in for a rude awakening next week. My three others are racking up brackets too. Someday you'll know them by name.
Is that the 7 year old you said you take to small town tournaments to go headhunting trying to break other little kids? That's what you said last year. Probably ended a few wrestling careers before they started. Glad you can find fulfillment through your kids. I never question a parent on what's best for their kids.
You thought your 7 year old had a concussion, but now think he was just full of shit? Are you real, or is someone just ****ing with us?
