Brooks to PSU

[MSeil]

With much respect Mr Brooks. Your boys a class act.

For all you people keeping this thread alive.

 

[nitlion6]

You've overstated it, but there's a grain of truth there.

PSU fans seem to want to elevate Cael to mythical proportions because PSU has won national championships in recent years.

To downplay the importance of getting top tier recruits is disingenuous and common with PSU fans. Mark Hall was 'developed' into a true fr national champ through Cael's magic coaching ability. Give me a break.

Each year there are some very elite HS wrestlers... some years the top couple of guys or maybe the top 5-10.... guys that realistically could be multiyear AA's and a good chance at being national champion. David Taylor, Metcalf, Retherford, Varner, and Steveson all fit this description. If you can recruit guys like that, you will be successful, with competent coaching.

Here are the facts....

Cael never won a team championship during his time at ISU, either as an asst coach or head coach. The number of top 10 recruits he got was quite small at ISU, certainly nothing like at PSU.

Fast forward to Cael at PSU. For years now, PSU has been getting multiple top 10 guys. No other school comes close. Surprise.... PSU starts winning championships.

Cael is a good coach, but when you're starting with the best of the best, it's a lot easier to bring home team titles.

Cael has recruited like no one else in wrestling history. That much we know. How he does it is something of a mystery to non PSU fans, so questions arise. And how well kids actually develop under him is not so obvious, at least compared to other top d1 schools.

Iowa fans are entertaining. Look up the word rationalization and you will see an illustration of an Iowa Hawkeye wrestling fan explaining Penn State's wrestling dominance.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Well, given the fact that Penn State won its first national championship about twenty years before Iowa ever won their first, we could have asked the same question.

But, you know the answer. It's simple: You had Gable and we now have Sanderson.

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

 

[PSUer1989]

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

Can't say for sure why it took so long, but joining the Big Ten certainly helped. PA kids had the choice of going out of state and wrestling in the best conference around, or staying in state and wrestling in the EWL or EIWA. It wasn't a coincidence the PSU women's volleyball team won its streak of championships after joining the conference either. More money poured in for better funding all around.

 

[LorenzoFan]

Those schools can and do give rather large financial aid packages.

They can but tell that to the kids that go into huge amounts of debt to wrestle for one of the Burgs

 

[1975hawkfan]

The skill level of today's blue chippers is off the charts better than they were in the Gable days.

Would love to see the data on the number of Freshmen/true Freshmen AAs from the 80s and 90s compared to today.

Spencer Lee, Ryan Deakin, Nick Lee, Drew Mattin, Hayden Hidley, Marinelli, Ben Darmstadt...just a few freshmen who will all at least AA this year.

PSU's recruits: RBY, Teasdale, Brooks, Verkleeran, Berge, Manville, Nevilles,
Every one of those kids can will probably will AA their freshmen year, and I thought that before they ever committed to PSU.

 

[1975hawkfan]

The skill level of today's blue chippers is off the charts better than they were in the Gable days.

Would love to see the data on the number of Freshmen/true Freshmen AAs from the 80s and 90s compared to today.

Spencer Lee, Ryan Deakin, Nick Lee, Drew Mattin, Hayden Hidley, Marinelli, Ben Darmstadt...just a few freshmen who will all at least AA this year.

PSU's recruits: RBY, Teasdale, Brooks, Verkleeran, Berge, Manville, Nevilles,
Every one of those kids can will probably will AA their freshmen year, and I thought that before they ever committed to PSU.

The skill level of today's blue chippers is off the charts better than they were in the Gable days.

Would love to see the data on the number of Freshmen/true Freshmen AAs from the 80s and 90s compared to today.

Spencer Lee, Ryan Deakin, Nick Lee, Drew Mattin, Hayden Hidley, Marinelli, Ben Darmstadt...just a few freshmen who will all at least AA this year.

PSU's recruits: RBY, Teasdale, Brooks, Verkleeran, Berge, Manville, Nevilles,
Every one of those kids can will probably will AA their freshmen year, and I thought that before they ever committed to PSU.

 

[slammin74]

He is not going to come here for free and Brands has stated we don't have $$$ to spend, that seems pretty clear.

But we did for hilday???

 

[mase1990]

Serious question - wrestled ut Chattanooga in the ‘80’s, how do the schollys work now??

 

[AFHawk86]

Serious question - wrestled ut Chattanooga in the ‘80’s, how do the schollys work now??

Well, for F***State wrestlers they turn down scholarships because: a) they have rich uncles, b) they don’t mind massive debt because they can wrestle for a champion, c) they work summer camps for slightly more than the going rate, or d) Cael’s personality is magnanimous

 

[mase1990]

Clarify my question - is everyone on a full boat??? At least starters

 

[AFHawk86]

Clarify my question - is everyone on a full boat??? At least starters

Sorry, couldn’t resist.

Very few D1 wrestlers are on full rides.

 

[mase1990]

I understand - that’s what I thought. I love btn, only real wrestling we get to watch in Florida! Watching Iowa/minn - anyway thx...

 

[1975hawkfan]

All Americans from the 1980's were just as good as today's athlete's. To name a few which maybe you've heard of, were Randy Lewis [who finished 2nd to the best wrestler in the country, Mike Land], Ed Banach [1st as a freshman,3x champ], Barry Davis [7th place, 4xAA, 3 time champ], Jimmy Zalesky [5th, 4xAA, 3 time champ], Mike DeAnna [3rd place,4xAA, 2nd twice], Duane Goldman [2nd as a freshman, 4xAA, one time champ], Bruce Kinseth would have finished 7th or 8th if that had that back then, Jim Heffernan [4th place as a freshman,4xAA,one time champ,2nd twice], you might not know this guy named Tom Brands[4th,4xAA,3x champ]. I could go on but a few guys not from Iowa that were all-americans as freshmen are some super stars like Darryl Burley [1st,2nd,2nd,1st], Rickey Stewart [4th then 1st,1st 4th], and Mark Churella [4th as a freshman and then 3x champ]. So, yes the 1980's stack up with 2018. These are some of the greatest wrestlers ever to take the mat.

 

[mase1990]

I remember most if not all those names - those guys were gods to us! Ethan Reeve was the coach when I was there - 2 time aa, not in the same class as the guys you mentioned but he was a tough guy and I’m sure his practices mirrored some of the ones you big boys went thru. He was an asst coach at okie state before he came south - he lost to Lee kemp in Olympic trials

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

You guys are intense! First off, if you are a true wrestling fan? You have to love and appreciate the history of Iowa wrestling! The passion and fan base is awesome. I can tell you PSU is also an outstanding program as is tOSU and Michigan. I think any parent would be pleased if their child could compete on either of those teams. We did hear from an Iowa coach after this board expressed it’s surprise that we did not hear from one, but Aaron really was not recruited by Iowa. What I have learned from this process is that kids are all different and each have different needs. They are going to choose the school they feel the most comfortable with and there are lots of variables that determine that. I have not heard or seen anyone or coach do anything that didn’t follow the NCAA guidelines. Best of luck to the Hawks! Love Spencer Lee! Great kid and wrestler. Keep up the banter! The Iowa and PSU boards are great!!

Johnbrooks sets the standard for how a parent should handle posting on team message boards.

 

[Jackhawk87]

Wow, this is a long thread, but it sounds like we Iowa fans are doing this all wrong. Stop donating to the HWC and start donating to Iowa City West HS. That way the wrestlers can just go over ICW to pick up their $2500 weekly checks (to make it all legal of course).

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

I stopped giving a fk after the 1st post - why is it still on this site? Is he transferring to Iowa after 8 months of bullshit and then goes JC instead? Why do I care - and why is this still a discussion point? He he a flake? I don't care. Did Carl give mommy and daddy 4 BMWs? why do I care?

 

[rossel 33]

Iowa had the top ranked recruiting class this year, and NC State was number one the previous year. Just saying

Blowing smoke.

In 2017, FLO had Iowa's class #2 and PSU #3. Each had 2 top 10 guys (Iowa with Lee and Warner, PSU with N Lee and Berge).

In 2016, rankers inexplicably put NC State #1, and underweighted PSU's #2 class, arguably the best haul in the last 2 decades with Hall, Suriano, and Manville.

Rankers have come to realize that getting 2 or 3 top tier studs pays off better than getting 5 guys in the 40 to 100 range. Nomad and FLO have talked about this.

So look at the bigger picture of elite recruits over several years- top 10 of entire class, all weights, by FLO:

Iowa:
2010 - 0
2011 - 0
2012 - 0
2013 - 0
2014 - 0
2015 - Kemerer
2016 - Marinelli
2017 - Lee, Warner
2018 - 0

PSU:
2010 - D Alton, A Alton
2011 - McIntosh, Megaludis
2012 - Gulibon
2013 - Retherford
2014 - Nolf, Nickal, Nevills
2015 - Joseph
2016 - Hall, Suriano, Manville
2017 - Berge, N Lee
2018 - Brooks, Beard ....in addition, RBY and Teasdale are just
outside top 10.

Iowa = 4 top 10 recruits in last 9 years
PSU = 17 top 10 recruits

A bit oversimplified, but Brands gets AA's and champions by developing lower ranked recruits.Cael gets AA's and champions by recruiting the very best guys.

The contrast is pretty striking. In recruiting, Iowa is way behind PSU. So is everyone else. One has to ask why.

 

[IAChief32]

Clarify my question - is everyone on a full boat??? At least starters

Fully funded programs have 9.9 scholarships to divide up as they see fit. A Spencer Lee would probably get a full ride. PSU wrestlers pay Cael for the privilege

 

[lionlover]

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

I answered your question. You either didn't like it or failed to accept it:

"But, you know the answer. It's simple: You had Gable and we now have Sanderson."

 

[HawkFT]

As a PSU fan and a troll on your board, you guys are crazy for thinking this. Cael Sanderson is obviously a huge draw on this own, and the state of Pennsylvania is easily the best state to recruit wrestlers. The reality is also that the PSU staff is out working you guys.

Don't be a sure loser with lame excuses. Haters gonna hate in all walks of life I guess, but to make these assertions like this is just silly and quite frankly makes you look like as ass....

If Cael was SO good, why couldn't that crew get it done at ISU? Surely he could have pulled all those recruits to his alma mater right? Not so much and it didn't happen, wasn't going to happen. He was not really a big draw here and was second fiddle to Iowa and Brands and not even a a close second fiddle.

 

[hawkeye1944]

If Cael was SO good, why couldn't that crew get it done at ISU? Surely he could have pulled all those recruits to his alma mater right? Not so much and it didn't happen, wasn't going to happen. He was not really a big draw here and was second fiddle to Iowa and Brands and not even a a close second fiddle.

Iowa St. didn't have a wrestling club and a multi-millionaire backer...Or J. Sandusky as it's best wrestling recruiter...

 

[Flying_Tiger]

 

[Raw Daddy]

My favorite part as it is a perfect example of how out of touch some people can be, you use a football scandal from 1987 to demonstrate how Penn State must be cheating in 2018 as if nothing in recruiting, culture, or college athletics has changed in 30 years. This perfectly illustrates total lack of understanding of the current dynamics of college athletics. Aaron Brook's father said Iowa had never contacted him, Mark Hall said very early on that he wasn't interested in Iowa, look at every top 25 p4p kid's top 5 when they release them and see how man Iowa is in relative to tOSU and PSU. Look at the situations with Schwab, Zadick, Metcalf, Ramos, all leaving Iowa under "weird" circumstances, 3 of which have been pretty well documented on Flo. Do you think that helps your recruiting? The Gilman stunt at NOC got huge attention for a week. How do you think that played with potential recruits' parents? Look at social media and see how Kyle Snyder, DT, and others have loads of material out there...compare that to a Gilman or Dennis. Which do you think a HS kid would be more familiar with?

Iowa doesn't have a money problem, it has a marketing problem.
While most of your fans are aware of this and it appears the Brands have come around and our now actively trying to fix it, some of your fan base needs to catch up. Crying cheaters every time another program lands a big recruit definitely isn't helping.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? "Iowa has a marketing problem" thats it? Sorry buddy but you haven't even a clue!!! Iowa just brought in the #1 class last year. It is this year were those playing by the book would also tell you. There is just nothing left to offer!!!!

Where as Funny State, just keeps rolling em in???

AND while I agree not every school is every kids "cup of tea." Who do you know that wrestled or is wrestling. That would not want to wrestle for Iowa! Iowa is the CENTER of USA Wrestling! From the fans, to the tradition, to the results!

Let me ask you. What is the Home Run Record? For those that were Baseball fans before they ruined it. It is Roger Maris 61!!! For those like you, It is 73 by some Drug taking cheater!!!

So please stop lying to yourself!!![/QUOTE]

This is where you are wrong. It used to be the center. I know that’s a tough pill to swallow, but the best kids live in PA and OH where by far the two best college programs reside. Things change and evolve.

 

[csiebott]

Can't say for sure why it took so long, but joining the Big Ten certainly helped. PA kids had the choice of going out of state and wrestling in the best conference around, or staying in state and wrestling in the EWL or EIWA. It wasn't a coincidence the PSU women's volleyball team won its streak of championships after joining the conference either. More money poured in for better funding all around.

Also, Pennsylvania has had at least 11 D-1 programs, so in state talent was spread out before PSU hired Cael and invested in wrestling by building the Lorenzo complex (a pre-Cael initiative)

 

[Raw Daddy]

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

I’d look at the success of the PSAC schools for some of that. Clarion, Edinboro, Lock Haven we’re top 10 schools for many years fueled by the PA talent. When PSU invested in Sanderson it elevated the program and showed the school was invested in wrestling. Turns out they hired the best coach in the country.

 

[tabenn]

Ok I have to step to the aid of TnT here (not that they need it). Anyone who thinks they are holding a program back, or hostage as you put it, is delusional.
They are doing a great job. They may not be winning titles, but they run a classy operation and have their hearts n the right place. They are developing kids and have a ton of loyalty from their wrestlers. You don't get that from kids unless you are doing right by them.
There is no "1 simple reason" that PSU is on top and tOSU are on top and the Hawks aren't right now, but you can bet your house that the Brands bros are not part of the problem.
IMHO

what flavor was the cool aid you drank?

 

[EPC FAN]

#slushfund

That is a very serious charge you are making. If you have evidence of it, by all means contact the NCAA.
I'm betting on you just being a bitter fan who can't stand the new wrestling order.
Should be a terrific dual meet at Rec Hall, tonight. The Pennsylvania State University versus The Ohio State University. Enjoy, on BTN.

 

[AFHawk86]

That is a very serious charge you are making. If you have evidence of it, by all means contact the NCAA.
I'm betting on you just being a bitter fan who can't stand the new wrestling order.
Should be a terrific dual meet at Rec Hall, tonight. The Pennsylvania State University versus The Ohio State University. Enjoy, on BTN.

Really? A “very serious charge”?

Signed,
A Bitter Fan

 

[tabenn]

Blowing smoke.

In 2017, FLO had Iowa's class #2 and PSU #3. Each had 2 top 10 guys (Iowa with Lee and Warner, PSU with N Lee and Berge).

In 2016, rankers inexplicably put NC State #1, and underweighted PSU's #2 class, arguably the best haul in the last 2 decades with Hall, Suriano, and Manville.

Rankers have come to realize that getting 2 or 3 top tier studs pays off better than getting 5 guys in the 40 to 100 range. Nomad and FLO have talked about this.

So look at the bigger picture of elite recruits over several years- top 10 of entire class, all weights, by FLO:

Iowa:
2010 - 0
2011 - 0
2012 - 0
2013 - 0
2014 - 0
2015 - Kemerer
2016 - Marinelli
2017 - Lee, Warner
2018 - 0

PSU:
2010 - D Alton, A Alton
2011 - McIntosh, Megaludis
2012 - Gulibon
2013 - Retherford
2014 - Nolf, Nickal, Nevills
2015 - Joseph
2016 - Hall, Suriano, Manville
2017 - Berge, N Lee
2018 - Brooks, Beard ....in addition, RBY and Teasdale are just
outside top 10.

Iowa = 4 top 10 recruits in last 9 years
PSU = 17 top 10 recruits

A bit oversimplified, but Brands gets AA's and champions by developing lower ranked recruits.Cael gets AA's and champions by recruiting the very best guys.

The contrast is pretty striking. In recruiting, Iowa is way behind PSU. So is everyone else. One has to ask why.

Why top recruits want to wrestle Cael-/ PSU

only 4 time undefeated national champ in history
world champ
Olympic champ
team has won 6 in last 7 team titles
5 NC last year--all under classman
ROTC
not to mention world class dodge ball facility!

hmmmmmmmm I wonder???????

 

[GOLDBANGER]

I’d look at the success of the PSAC schools for some of that. Clarion, Edinboro, Lock Haven we’re top 10 schools for many years fueled by the PA talent. When PSU invested in Sanderson it elevated the program and showed the school was invested in wrestling. Turns out they hired the best coach in the country.

Don't forget Bloomsburg when Roger Sanders was coaching there, annual top ten teams. Not to mention a couple twin brothers named Bonomo.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

Can't say for sure why it took so long, but joining the Big Ten certainly helped. PA kids had the choice of going out of state and wrestling in the best conference around, or staying in state and wrestling in the EWL or EIWA. It wasn't a coincidence the PSU women's volleyball team won its streak of championships after joining the conference either. More money poured in for better funding all around.

Joining the Big 10 helped but Penn State had an awesome team heading into the Big 10. McCoy, Prescott, Sunderland, Kolat... But Iowa was a buzzsaw back in 91/92. The difference maker was Cael. Penn State paid him a lot of money to draw him over. The narrative by some over here that Cael can't coach is of course baloney. He didn't win a national championship his second year with 10 of his recruits. Success breeds success. Especially in a high school wrestling hotbed state.

 

[RoarLions1]

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

Good question. It's not like we don't had a decent history though, somewhere in the 5th/6th best all-time, depending on criteria. For example, near the end of the Gable years, in the 7 years 1990 - 1996, PSU was top-6 every year, but couldn't get over the hump.

In my opinion, PA was still diluted during the Gable years, and that's at least one reason, among others I'm sure, that we weren't a perennial top-3 or so school. In addition to the 11 D1 programs currently in PA, there also was Shippensburg, East Stroudsburg, West Chester, Slippery Rock, Wilkes, Temple, Millersville, and maybe a few others...and that's just the 1980's...go further back and there's more.

My fan days go back to the early 70's...again it's just my opinion, bringing in a high profile coach, able to better recruit nationally, is a reason for today's success. Plus, he can coach...

 

[MVPFAN]

Really? A “very serious charge”?

Signed,
A Bitter Fan

LMFAO, I don't even do the twitter but I am pretty sure they call that a hash tag. Getting these PSU posters worked up is too damn easy. It is not even trolling because I am on my own board and not even trying.

 

[Media Fan]

Still does not answer my question?..Why has it taken this long to get a great program going with all the talent in your state and near by states?
Could you not afford to hire good coaches all those years? Just curious here so you won one 20 years before Iowa congrats...Still cannot understand why it took so long like maybe guessing but about like over 40 some years since Iowa has 23 ...All know for sure is no way can I live to give u a toast when you get to 23...

Pretty simple the leadership was not what one might have hoped. Isn’t that the case most of the time. If you can’t accept that, that’s your choice.

 

[LumbeeIndian]

I’d look at the success of the PSAC schools for some of that. Clarion, Edinboro, Lock Haven we’re top 10 schools for many years fueled by the PA talent. When PSU invested in Sanderson it elevated the program and showed the school was invested in wrestling. Turns out they hired the best coach in the country.

Nail on the head with that post. Those programs you listed were always well respected programs in the eyes of hs recruits and many times right in their own back yards.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Carl certainly has it going right now.

As frustrated as we Hawk fans are........

Can only guess how T & T feel.

Wouldn't want to be the wall they bang their heads on right now.

 

[purescurve]

Has the difference in monetary and ancillary benefits between a IOWA degree and a PENN STATE degree been discussed here?

 

[Dogwelder]

How is PSU getting all these guys with 9.9 scholarships..

Did you hear the one about the fat bald average guys sitting around asking, "how is that young guy who wins everything getting one hot girlfriend after another when he doesn't even have more money than us?" It's a mystery for the ages, I tells ya!