Close friend pleading with me to not vaccinate our baby

[ConvenientParking]

Funny thing that happens with people sometimes. They'll believe in evolution insofar as the first 4.whatever billion years go up to 1900. But you are what you eat. One proposed conclusion of evolution is that we weren't "designed" at all. That we're all part of this chemical experiment. But after some amazing advancements, we have some douchebags who think we weren't "designed" to eat food produced by methods that were invented to curtail starvation. We weren't "designed" to figure out ways to stave off worldwide disease. ****ing assholes.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

I've provided you ALL the answers.

Try this tactic. First do it, then claim it.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Feel free to consider your bullshit claim countered.

A particular make and model of a car that is particularly notorious for getting into accidents. There is good evidence that it is a complex cascading defect in the car's braking system, but people say it's ABSOLUTELY not the car's fault because of all the safety studies that have been done on the tires.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Gallagher CM, Goodman MS. Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997–2002. J Toxicol Environ Health A 2010;73(24):1665–1677.
Geier DA, Hooker BS, Kern JK, King PG, Sykes LK, Geier MR. A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder in the United States. Transl Neurodegener 2013;2(1):25.

LOL.

Here ya go - these are cohort studies of huge numbers of children:

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

RESULTS
Of the 537,303 children in the cohort (representing 2,129,864 person-years), 440,655 (82.0 percent) had received the MMR vaccine. We identified 316 children with a diagnosis of autistic disorder and 422 with a diagnosis of other autistic-spectrum disorders. After adjustment for potential confounders, the relative risk of autistic disorder in the group of vaccinated children, as compared with the unvaccinated group, was 0.92 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.68 to 1.24), and the relative risk of another autistic-spectrum disorder was 0.83 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.65 to 1.07). There was no association between the age at the time of vaccination, the time since vaccination, or the date of vaccination and the development of autistic disorder.

http://putchildrenfirst.org/media/5.5.pdf

Phase I screened for associations between neurodevelopmental disorders and thimerosal exposure among 124 170 infants who were born during 1992 to 1999 at 2 HMOs (A and B).

Results
In phase I at HMO A, cumulative exposure at 3 months resulted in a significant positive association with tics (relative risk [RR]: 1.89; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 1.05–3.38). At HMO B, increased risks of language delay were found for cumulative exposure at 3 months (RR: 1.13; 95% CI: 1.01–1.27) and 7 months (RR: 1.07; 95% CI: 1.01–1.13). In phase II at HMO C, no significant associations were found. In no analyses were significant increased risks found for autism or attention-deficit disorder.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Kingdom_Does_Not_Support_a_Causal_Association

Results
Only in 1 analysis for tics was there some evidence of a higher risk with increasing doses (Cox’s HR: 1.50 per dose at 4 months; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 1.02–2.20). Statistically significant negative associations with increasing doses at 4 months were found for general developmental disorders (HR: 0.87; 95% CI: 0.81–0.93), unspecified developmental delay (HR: 0.80; 95% CI:0.69–0.92), and attention-deficit disorder (HR: 0.79; 95% CI: 0.64–0.98). For the other disorders, there was no evidence of an association with thimerosal exposure.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/JAMA/933762/JOI150033supp1_prod.pdf

Results Of 95 727 children with older siblings, 994 (1.04%) were diagnosed with ASD and 1929 (2.02%) had an older sibling with ASD. Of those with older siblings with ASD, 134 (6.9%) had ASD, vs 860 (0.9%) children with unaffected siblings (P < .001). MMR vaccination rates (≥1 dose) were 84% (n = 78 549) at age 2 years and 92% (n = 86 063) at age 5 years for children with unaffected older siblings, vs 73% (n = 1409) at age 2 years and 86% (n = 1660) at age 5 years for children with affected siblings. MMR vaccine receipt was not associated with an increased risk of ASD at any age. For children with older siblings with ASD, at age 2, the adjusted relative risk (RR) of ASD for 1 dose of MMR vaccine vs no vaccine was 0.76 (95% CI, 0.48-1.22; P = .25), and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses compared with no vaccine was 0.56 (95% CI, 0.30-1.04; P = .07). For children whose older siblings did not have ASD, at age 2, the adjusted RR of ASD for 1 dose was 0.91 (95% CI, 0.68-1.20; P = .50) and at age 5, the RR of ASD for 2 doses was 1.09 (95% CI, 0.76-1.54; P = .65).

Conclusions and Relevance In this large sample of privately insured children with older siblings, receipt of the MMR vaccine was not associated with increased risk of ASD, regardless of whether older siblings had ASD. These findings indicate no harmful association between MMR vaccine receipt and ASD even among children already at higher risk for ASD.

You have here FOUR direct cohort studies involving nearly a million children. Let that number sink in. Not 33...not 500...not 1,000...but over 850,000. Not one of those studies could find any link between vaccinations and autism. So move the goalposts and now claim it's aluminum. And when that's debunked, I'm sure you'll have something else.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

A particular make and model of a car that is particularly notorious for getting into accidents. There is good evidence that it is a complex cascading defect in the car's braking system, but people say it's ABSOLUTELY not the car's fault because of all the safety studies that have been done on the tires.

No...there is NO evidence that it's a "complex cascading defect" because millions of the cars have been checked - including those involved in your wrecks - and the f'n brakes had absolutely nothing to do with your accidents.

But in your wisdom - since if MUST be the brakes - you want everybody driving around in cars without brakes. Genius. Really.

 

[ConvenientParking]

I will never understand.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

So move the goalposts and now claim it's aluminum

What do you mean move the goalposts? My goalpost has been set at aluminum for quite some time now, long before I started posting about vaccines here. There are almost no aluminum toxicity safety studies done for vaccines and the ones that I'm aware of indicate that it is a highly potent neurotoxin. Now what does that tell you? Move the goalposts my butt. Aluminum is in the vaccines every bit as much as mercury.

The science done on vaccines almost completely overlooks synergistic toxicity of the rest of the 38 vaccine ingredients. For instance what are the effects of a substance like the surfactant polysorbate 80 - present in 10 vaccines, known to allow toxins to more readily cross the blood-brain barrier? The neurotoxicity of aluminum is shown to have a much greater effect when it's in the presence of mercury. Synergistic effects. You guys avoid it every time I mention it as if you don't know what it means, and yet it is a central talking point to this debate.

 

[TxDoc]

You have here FOUR direct cohort studies involving nearly a million children. Let that number sink in. Not 33...not 500...not 1,000...but over 850,000. Not one of those studies could find any link between vaccinations and autism. So move the goalposts and now claim it's aluminum. And when that's debunked, I'm sure you'll have something else. (Tarheelbybirth)

The science done on vaccines almost completely overlooks synergistic toxicity of the rest of the 38 vaccine ingredients. For instance what are the effects of a substance like the surfactant polysorbate 80 - present in 10 vaccines, known to allow toxins to more readily cross the blood-brain barrier? The neurotoxicity of aluminum is shown to have a much greater effect when it's in the presence of mercury. Synergistic effects. You guys avoid it every time I mention it as if you don't know what it means, and yet it is a central talking point to this debate.(Naturalbornhawk)


Tarheelbybirth shows the classic thought process of a scientist looking at the problem. Multiple studies looking at an issue. Scientific studies try to disprove their own theory, that is the way the statistical analyses are set up. Looking at the data quoted, it is hard as a scientist to get excited about further studies attempting to prove that vaccines and autism are related. The relative risk factors are actually trending less in the vaccine group. Time to move on to a new issue from the scientist viewpoint.

Naturalbornhawk shows the classic thought process of the nonscientist. Positions are formed based on associations that sound correct, but have never been proven scientifically. Their positions are based much more on feelings than on data. For example "Sugar feeds cancer, eat less sugar to starve the cancer". While these types of positions sound plausible initially, they are formed by conjecture. Data based on comparison studies have not yielded positive correlations. Excuses are then generated to defend the lack of data from large studies- often conspiracies. In my dealings with this type of person, they actually believe their positions do have sufficient data. A doctor claiming that sugar feeds cancer because sugar is taken up by PET scan actually is significant data in their view. A doctor said it and it makes sense to them. They do not require large comparison studies to feel a point is proven enough to act upon. Case studies with a few patients telling their stories are enough. Studies done in mice and petri dishes are also often cited as proof of effect in people.

These arguments will go on forever because the two positions each believe their thought process is correct and the other person just doesn't get it.

Fun to read the back and forth though!

 

[Joes Place]

These arguments will go on forever because the two positions each believe their thought process is correct and the other person just doesn't get it.

Which position should we use to base health policy on, though?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

What do you mean move the goalposts? My goalpost has been set at aluminum for quite some time now, long before I started posting about vaccines here. There are almost no aluminum toxicity safety studies done for vaccines and the ones that I'm aware of indicate that it is a highly potent neurotoxin. Now what does that tell you? Move the goalposts my butt. Aluminum is in the vaccines every bit as much as mercury.

The science done on vaccines almost completely overlooks synergistic toxicity of the rest of the 38 vaccine ingredients. For instance what are the effects of a substance like the surfactant polysorbate 80 - present in 10 vaccines, known to allow toxins to more readily cross the blood-brain barrier? The neurotoxicity of aluminum is shown to have a much greater effect when it's in the presence of mercury. Synergistic effects. You guys avoid it every time I mention it as if you don't know what it means, and yet it is a central talking point to this debate.

There's only one teeny tiny problem with your ranting. Hundreds of thousands of children have been covered in study after study after study and there's no correlation between VACCINES AND AUTISM. So you can take your "synergistic effects", stuff them in a pipe, and smoke them. To even talk about your effects, you must first demonstrate that vaccines - with whatever they contain - are linked to the outcome you keep trying to find. So if it's not autism now (moving another goalpost) what ailment are you laying at the feet of vaccines and where is your research linking vaccines to this particular ailment?

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You have here FOUR direct cohort studies involving nearly a million children. Let that number sink in. Not 33...not 500...not 1,000...but over 850,000. Not one of those studies could find any link between vaccinations and autism. So move the goalposts and now claim it's aluminum. And when that's debunked, I'm sure you'll have something else. (Tarheelbybirth)

The science done on vaccines almost completely overlooks synergistic toxicity of the rest of the 38 vaccine ingredients. For instance what are the effects of a substance like the surfactant polysorbate 80 - present in 10 vaccines, known to allow toxins to more readily cross the blood-brain barrier? The neurotoxicity of aluminum is shown to have a much greater effect when it's in the presence of mercury. Synergistic effects. You guys avoid it every time I mention it as if you don't know what it means, and yet it is a central talking point to this debate.(Naturalbornhawk)


Tarheelbybirth shows the classic thought process of a scientist looking at the problem. Multiple studies looking at an issue. Scientific studies try to disprove their own theory, that is the way the statistical analyses are set up. Looking at the data quoted, it is hard as a scientist to get excited about further studies attempting to prove that vaccines and autism are related. The relative risk factors are actually trending less in the vaccine group. Time to move on to a new issue from the scientist viewpoint.

Naturalbornhawk shows the classic thought process of the nonscientist. Positions are formed based on associations that sound correct, but have never been proven scientifically. Their positions are based much more on feelings than on data. For example "Sugar feeds cancer, eat less sugar to starve the cancer". While these types of positions sound plausible initially, they are formed by conjecture. Data based on comparison studies have not yielded positive correlations. Excuses are then generated to defend the lack of data from large studies- often conspiracies. In my dealings with this type of person, they actually believe their positions do have sufficient data. A doctor claiming that sugar feeds cancer because sugar is taken up by PET scan actually is significant data in their view. A doctor said it and it makes sense to them. They do not require large comparison studies to feel a point is proven enough to act upon. Case studies with a few patients telling their stories are enough. Studies done in mice and petri dishes are also often cited as proof of effect in people.

These arguments will go on forever because the two positions each believe their thought process is correct and the other person just doesn't get it.

Fun to read the back and forth though!

Thanks for the post doc. I appreciate your input, but with all due respect there are other doctors and scientists who have come to a completely different conclusion than yourself. I've posted a few and I can bring many more in if you like. This is not a soccer mom vs. scientist debate like many here would like to make it. If it were just that, there's no way there would be a vaccine safety commission, vaccine companies would be held liable for their products, VAERS would not have paid out for autistic cases, VAERS would not have paid out over 3 and a half B, and we wouldn't have CDC whistleblowers like Dr WT who said they threw away data that links mmr to autism. You said: "Positions are formed based on associations that sound correct, but have never been proven scientifically." What I'm saying is that the science that has been done is mainly tobacco science, and much more science needs to be done on looking at vaccines as a whole and not just singling out mercury and mmr, and not ones that choose biased data for their study. What we do need is a study that compares vaccinate vs. unvaccinated and look at the outcomes. I think I read somewhere that that study is set to be done, will be interesting to see what happens with it. Glad you're here though because I'd like to pick your brain. What are your thoughts about this (study at the bottom)?:
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-Ne...e-Studies--Under-the-Influence-of-Pharma.aspx
These studies:
http://vaccinesafetycommission.org/studies.html
And this:
https://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-sci...ng-to-destroy-vaccine-autism-study-documents/

 

[Joes Place]

Thanks for the post doc. I appreciate your input, but with all due respect there are other doctors and scientists who have come to a completely different conclusion than yourself.

No; they've posited different OPINIONS and HYPOTHESES.

But they HAVE NOT conducted studies on >1 million kids to SUPPORT their hypotheses.
Which is why their opinions simply do not matter; there is ZERO evidence to support them.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You have here FOUR direct cohort studies involving nearly a million children. Let that number sink in. Not 33...not 500...not 1,000...but over 850,000. Not one of those studies could find any link between vaccinations and autism. So move the goalposts and now claim it's aluminum. And when that's debunked, I'm sure you'll have something else. (Tarheelbybirth)

The science done on vaccines almost completely overlooks synergistic toxicity of the rest of the 38 vaccine ingredients. For instance what are the effects of a substance like the surfactant polysorbate 80 - present in 10 vaccines, known to allow toxins to more readily cross the blood-brain barrier? The neurotoxicity of aluminum is shown to have a much greater effect when it's in the presence of mercury. Synergistic effects. You guys avoid it every time I mention it as if you don't know what it means, and yet it is a central talking point to this debate.(Naturalbornhawk)


Tarheelbybirth shows the classic thought process of a scientist looking at the problem. Multiple studies looking at an issue. Scientific studies try to disprove their own theory, that is the way the statistical analyses are set up. Looking at the data quoted, it is hard as a scientist to get excited about further studies attempting to prove that vaccines and autism are related. The relative risk factors are actually trending less in the vaccine group. Time to move on to a new issue from the scientist viewpoint.

Naturalbornhawk shows the classic thought process of the nonscientist. Positions are formed based on associations that sound correct, but have never been proven scientifically. Their positions are based much more on feelings than on data. For example "Sugar feeds cancer, eat less sugar to starve the cancer". While these types of positions sound plausible initially, they are formed by conjecture. Data based on comparison studies have not yielded positive correlations. Excuses are then generated to defend the lack of data from large studies- often conspiracies. In my dealings with this type of person, they actually believe their positions do have sufficient data. A doctor claiming that sugar feeds cancer because sugar is taken up by PET scan actually is significant data in their view. A doctor said it and it makes sense to them. They do not require large comparison studies to feel a point is proven enough to act upon. Case studies with a few patients telling their stories are enough. Studies done in mice and petri dishes are also often cited as proof of effect in people.

These arguments will go on forever because the two positions each believe their thought process is correct and the other person just doesn't get it.

Fun to read the back and forth though!

Just for fun, this is what happens when doctors debate with a "nonscientist" :

 

[tarheelbybirth]

https://sharylattkisson.com/cdc-sci...ng-to-destroy-vaccine-autism-study-documents/

Please...not Dr. William Thompson again. The guy who claimed the coauthors of a CDC-backed study conspired to destroy evidence of a vaccine/autism link by dumping hard copies in a trash can. The guy who said:

Sometime soon after the meeting, we decided to exclude reporting any race effects, the co-authors scheduled a meeting to destroy documents related to the study. The remaining four co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting room and reviewed and went through all the hard copy documents that we had thought we should discard and put them in a huge garbage can.

The guy who went to conspiracy advocate Brian Hooker with his story. Not THAT Dr. William Thompson.

Did you know that Brian Hooker looked at that "destroyed" data? Does that make you curious at all? How could Hooker analyze the data when it was purportedly collected and dumped in the trash? Were you aware that YOU could look at that "destroyed" data? Do you wonder how that could be possible?

 

[Joes Place]

Please...not Dr. William Thompson again. The guy who claimed the coauthors of a CDC-backed study conspired to destroy evidence of a vaccine/autism link by dumping hard copies in a trash can. The guy who said:

Sometime soon after the meeting, we decided to exclude reporting any race effects, the co-authors scheduled a meeting to destroy documents related to the study. The remaining four co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting room and reviewed and went through all the hard copy documents that we had thought we should discard and put them in a huge garbage can.

The guy who went to conspiracy advocate Brian Hooker with his story. Not THAT Dr. William Thompson.

Did you know that Brian Hooker looked at that "destroyed" data? Does that make you curious at all? How could Hooker analyze the data when it was purportedly collected and dumped in the trash? Were you aware that YOU could look at that "destroyed" data? Do you wonder how that could be possible?

LMAO!!!! Like there's only ONE copy of the data they could just plop into a trash can!
Holy shit that's naive!!!!

 

[shank hawk]

There's only one teeny tiny problem with your ranting. Hundreds of thousands of children have been covered in study after study after study and there's no correlation between VACCINES AND AUTISM. So you can take your "synergistic effects", stuff them in a pipe, and smoke them. To even talk about your effects, you must first demonstrate that vaccines - with whatever they contain - are linked to the outcome you keep trying to find. So if it's not autism now (moving another goalpost) what ailment are you laying at the feet of vaccines and where is your research linking vaccines to this particular ailment?

The former head of the CDC begs to differ. You remember her, right? She's the chick that sold more than half of her Merck stock for $2.3 million then left her job as top watchdog for vaccine safety to go shill for the huge pharmaceutical company (no conflict. Obviously). (http://www.opensourcetruth.com/archives/1391) Watch the video and listen to her admit vaccines cause autism. Stop wasting your time trying to convince us uneducated trolls that there's no ties between vaccines and autism: you've clearly got bigger fish to fry. Best of luck.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

LMAO!!!! Like there's only ONE copy of the data they could just plop into a trash can!
Holy shit that's naive!!!!

Here's the best part...from Hooker's analysis of the "destroyed" data:

Cohort data
Cohort data were obtained directly as a “restricted access data set” from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) via a Data Use Agreement. Data were deidentified by the CDC in accordance with Family Education Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) and the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) prior to receipt by the study authors. Use of the CDC specifically for the study described herein was approved by the Simpson University Institutional Review Board, in accordance with U.S. Federal regulations.

You seriously can't make this shit up.

 

[cidhawkeye]

The former head of the CDC begs to differ. You remember her, right? She's the chick that sold more than half of her Merck stock for $2.3 million then left her job as top watchdog for vaccine safety to go shill for the huge pharmaceutical company (no conflict. Obviously). (http://www.opensourcetruth.com/archives/1391) Watch the video and listen to her admit vaccines cause autism. Stop wasting your time trying to convince us uneducated trolls that there's no ties between vaccines and autism: you've clearly got bigger fish to fry. Best of luck.

View embedded media

You sure do share a lot for someone who didn't want to share.

 

[shank hawk]

You sure do share a lot for someone who didn't want to share.

Umm, you're welcome?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

(http://www.opensourcetruth.com/archives/1391) Watch the video and listen to her admit vaccines cause autism. Stop wasting your time trying to convince us uneducated trolls that there's no ties between vaccines and autism: you've clearly got bigger fish to fry. Best of luck.

View embedded media

LOL...do you think there's a difference between a vaccine-induced fever and an illness-induced fever? Do you think not getting vaccinated means children with a mitochondrial disorder will never stress their systems with fevers or "other"? What do you think the symptoms of measles are? Mumps? Chicken pox? Do you seriously believe that a child with a mild vaccine-induced fever is under MORE stress than a child with measles or mumps or chicken pox? If anything, it demonstrates - as some studies have suggested - that some vaccines may offer protection from autism by possibly reducing stress on the child's body.

You may or may not be an uneducated troll...but your critical thinking skills could use a boost.

 

[shank hawk]

You might want to ask her that question since she's the one that said vaccines cause autism.

On a related note I heard a good joke the other day: what's the difference between a CDC scientist turned Merck shill and a worker at the Mustang ranch?

One of them shamelessly degrades themselves by doing unsavory things to others in exchange for money ..................and the other is a prostitute.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

You might want to ask her that question since she's the one that said vaccines cause autism.

No, she didn't. Really.

 

[Joes Place]

No, she didn't. Really.

Of COURSE she did!!! It's ON THE INTERNETS!!!

 

[shank hawk]

Understood; you didn't watch the video. But it was assumed you wouldn't taking into consideration which side of the story you're approaching the subject from.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Understood; you didn't watch the video. But it was assumed you wouldn't taking into consideration which side of the story you're approaching the subject from.

I watched your video. I addressed the idiotic conclusions you drew from the video. You ignored it. I'll ask again - if vaccine-induced low grade fevers can stress the bodies of those with mitochodrial abnormalities to produce autistic-like symptoms (AUTISM!)...why wouldn't the fevers associated with measles or mumps or chicken pox do the same? How is the stress on the body due to a vaccine MORE acute than the stress of measles? There's no physiological difference in the fever. Could you, perhaps, respond on point? TIA

 

[shank hawk]

I watched your video. I addressed the idiotic conclusions you drew from the video. You ignored it. I'll ask again - if vaccine-induced low grade fevers can stress the bodies of those with mitochodrial abnormalities to produce autistic-like symptoms (AUTISM!)...why wouldn't the fevers associated with measles or mumps or chicken pox do the same? How is the stress on the body due to a vaccine MORE acute than the stress of measles? There's no physiological difference in the fever. Could you, perhaps, respond on point? TIA

Here's the contact for Ms. Gerberding's employer Merck:
Contact:
Merck
Media:
Steven Cragle, 908-740-1801
Lainie Keller, 908-236-5036
or
Investors:
Joe Romanelli, 908-740-1986
Justin Holko, 908-740-1879

I am sure she will be happy to explain to you the difference between a vaccine-induced fever that triggers brain damage and a viral/bacterial induced illness that purportedly does the same. She is a 'doctor' after all, though it's odd that a 'doctor' wouldn't have pointed out the differences in the two when she stated that vaccines do cause autism.

Oh well, she may have been preoccupied with more important things. Like negotiating a sweet employment package with her new boss perhaps??

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Here's the contact for Ms. Gerberding's employer Merck:
Contact:
Merck
Media:
Steven Cragle, 908-740-1801
Lainie Keller, 908-236-5036
or
Investors:
Joe Romanelli, 908-740-1986
Justin Holko, 908-740-1879

I am sure she will be happy to explain to you the difference between a vaccine-induced fever that triggers brain damage and a viral/bacterial induced illness that purportedly does the same. She is a 'doctor' after all, though it's odd that a 'doctor' wouldn't have pointed out the differences in the two when she stated that vaccines do cause autism.

Oh well, she may have been preoccupied with more important things. Like negotiating a sweet employment package with her new boss perhaps??

None of that...not one word...has anything to do with your mischaracterization of what was said. What she said was that stressing the body could induce the mitochondrial anomaly that causes autism-like symptoms. She said that the fever that is sometimes associated with vaccines could serve as such a stressor. Now you've taken that as some admission that vaccines cause autism. But you STILL haven't explained how the fever associated with a vaccine could be a stressor while the likely far higher fever associated with measles would not be. I'm not researching YOUR claims. That's your job. Locate the research that identifies some aspect of a vaccine-induced fever that makes it unique AND that uniquely stresses the mitochondria in such a way that they lose energy production causing autism-like symptoms. then you might have something. Until then, your claim that the former head of the CDC admitted that vaccines cause autism is quite plainly bullshit.

Your claim...your responsibility.

 

[naturalbornhawk]

You have here FOUR direct cohort studies involving nearly a million children. Let that number sink in. Not 33...not 500...not 1,000...but over 850,000. Not one of those studies could find any link between mmr/thimerosal and autism. So move the goalposts and now claim it's aluminum. And when that's debunked, I'm sure you'll have something else.

Test a million more if you want to. Twice. If you keep doing the same tests, you're going to get the same results. Poop in = poop out. Every time dude (unless you look at the other studies that indicate there's a problem, lol). Regardless, every single dang one of these tests you linked though are tests on the tires. If you want to find out if vaccines as a whole don't cause autism, the ONLY correct way to do a cohort study is to test vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Completely undeniable fact. Fixed it for you above, by the way. You're welcome.

No; they've posited different OPINIONS and HYPOTHESES.

But they HAVE NOT conducted studies on >1 million kids to SUPPORT their hypotheses.
Which is why their opinions simply do not matter; there is ZERO evidence to support them.

You know, the really fun part about tobacco science though is history will show you that given time, it's always eventually discovered as the fraud that it is. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out. If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to admit it and I'll be back to eat my crow, but at least I'll be able stand behind the validity of why I thought there was a problem. If the vaccine skeptics are right the trust will be lost for awhile, people will forget again, and we'll move onto the next money making scandal. The one thing you can be sure of is that history has repeated itself over and over, and will continue to do so long after you and I are gone. Unless Trump gets us all blowed up.

 

[Joes Place]

Test a million more if you want to. Twice. If you keep doing the same tests, you're going to get the same results.

Yep; that's how science works!
We can test 1 million more and find NO LINKS to autism.

 

[Joes Place]

You know, the really fun part about tobacco science though is history will show you

Show me what?

The same thing? That "science" pointed out the risks of cigarette smoking LONG BEFORE the Surgeon General required warnings on cig packs?

You seem to be confusing "science" and "medicine" with "cigarette manufacturer propaganda"....

 

[naturalbornhawk]

Yep; that's how science works!
We can test 1 million more and find NO LINKS of mmr/thimerosal to autism.

Fixed.

 

[shank hawk]

None of that...not one word...has anything to do with your mischaracterization of what was said. What she said was that stressing the body could induce the mitochondrial anomaly that causes autism-like symptoms. She said that the fever that is sometimes associated with vaccines could serve as such a stressor. Now you've taken that as some admission that vaccines cause autism. But you STILL haven't explained how the fever associated with a vaccine could be a stressor while the likely far higher fever associated with measles would not be. I'm not researching YOUR claims. That's your job. Locate the research that identifies some aspect of a vaccine-induced fever that makes it unique AND that uniquely stresses the mitochondria in such a way that they lose energy production causing autism-like symptoms. then you might have something. Until then, your claim that the former head of the CDC admitted that vaccines cause autism is quite plainly bullshit.

Your claim...your responsibility.

She claimed it, she owns it. Fortunately for her she works in an industry free of ethical restraints so she can lie her bought-and-paid-for ass off then walk it back like it meant nothing (which it obviously did to her).

It's amazing how EVERYBODY used to get these childhood diseases when I was a kid yet none of the high fevers were causing massive outbreaks of spontaneous autism. The pharmaceutical industry and their chief enabler, the CDC, are clearly moving the goalposts as you and JP like to accuse naturalborn of doing. Hey, whatever it takes to help y'all sleep at night.

Now quick, throw up a link that proves there used to be shitloads of autistic kids back then but the health care professionals just didn't know how to classify them.

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Fixed.

JFC...they've investigated entire VACCINES and found no causal link to autism. They've looked at different schedules - no causal link. They've looked at children predisposed to autism by an older autistic sibling - no causal link. How the hell does an ingredient - or even your synergistic BS - cause autism if the vaccine ITSELF doesn't cause autism?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

She claimed it, she owns it.

No, she didn't and no amount of you claiming it's so makes it so. I'll assume at this point that you've conceded the point and are simply flailing or we would see evidence that vaccine-induced fevers operate by some different pathway and CAN stress children to cause autism-like behaviors while the fevers associated with the prevented diseases DON'T stress their bodies in anything like the same way. Do you have such research or not?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

If you want to find out if vaccines as a whole don't cause autism, the ONLY correct way to do a cohort study is to test vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. Completely undeniable fact.

Ummm...that's what they do. smh

 

[tarheelbybirth]

You know, the really fun part about tobacco science though is history will show you that given time, it's always eventually discovered as the fraud that it is.

You mean the work of Franz Hermann Müller who demonstrated a causal link between cigarette smoking and lung cancer....in 1939? That science? Or Eberhard Schairer and Eric Schöniger whose research was more vigorous and supported Müller...in 1943? When was that work exposed as fraudulent? Ernst Wynder, Evarts Graham, Richard Doll and A Bradford Hill all published separate robust epidemiological studies demonstrating the link in 1950. Have they all been shown to be fraudulent? Doll and Hill then followed two separate and initially healthy groups over time, one smoking and one non-smoking, matched for demographics. In 1954 they concluded that smokers of 35 or more cigarettes per day increased their odds of dying from lung cancer by a factor of 40. Fraudulent?

That's the "tobacco science". I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

[shank hawk]

No, she didn't and no amount of you claiming it's so makes it so. I'll assume at this point that you've conceded the point and are simply flailing or we would see evidence that vaccine-induced fevers operate by some different pathway and CAN stress children to cause autism-like behaviors while the fevers associated with the prevented diseases DON'T stress their bodies in anything like the same way. Do you have such research or not?

Starting at 3:00 that's exactly what she said. But again, why are you trying to convince some internet troll when you could be going after someone capable of effecting societal attitudes towards vaccine? Oh right, because you're both helping to spread disinformation to cover up the damage vaccines have done to two or more generations of Americans.

And where are the studies that show children from the pre-vaccine craze going autistic after spiking high fevers from benign illnesses. Society doesn't remember it the way you purveyors of fear porn do.

Scary, scary shit, huh?

 

[tarheelbybirth]

Starting at 3:00 that's exactly what she said.

No. She. Didn't. No amount of lying on your part can change that. She said that ANYTHING that stresses children with this mitochondrial disorder can trigger autism-like symptoms. Here:

Fever plus mitochondrial disease could be risk factors for autistic regression.

Abstract
Autistic spectrum disorders encompass etiologically heterogeneous persons, with many genetic causes. A subgroup of these individuals has mitochondrial disease. Because a variety of metabolic disorders, including mitochondrial disease show regression with fever, a retrospective chart review was performed and identified 28 patients who met diagnostic criteria for autistic spectrum disorders and mitochondrial disease. Autistic regression occurred in 60.7% (17 of 28), a statistically significant increase over the general autistic spectrum disorder population (P < .0001). Of the 17 individuals with autistic regression, 70.6% (12 of 17) regressed with fever and 29.4% (5 of 17) regressed without identifiable linkage to fever or vaccinations. None showed regression with vaccination unless a febrile response was present. Although the study is small, a subgroup of patients with mitochondrial disease may be at risk of autistic regression with fever. Although recommended vaccinations schedules are appropriate in mitochondrial disease, fever management appears important for decreasing regression risk.

In other words, the FEVER caused the regression. Now you can argue that the vaccine caused the fever but of the 17 who regressed in this sample, only 4 had a fever associated with vaccines. Eight - that would be twice as many - had a fever associated with illness. The regressions in the other five couldn't be linked to fever or vaccinations.

So...if we know that fevers can trigger regression in children with this mitochondrial disorder, the goal should be to reduce the possibility of fevers. Which vaccines do. And with a vaccine, the fevers are usually low-grade and an identified susceptible child could be closely monitored with any fever managed aggressively and hydration maintained...dehydration may also trigger regression in susceptible children, you see.

Do vaccines cause autism? No. And Julie Gerberding never once said they did. Stop lying.

 

[Joes Place]

No. She. Didn't. No amount of lying on your part can change that. She said that ANYTHING that stresses children with this mitochondrial disorder can trigger autism-like symptoms. Here:

Fever plus mitochondrial disease could be risk factors for autistic regression.

Abstract
Autistic spectrum disorders encompass etiologically heterogeneous persons, with many genetic causes. A subgroup of these individuals has mitochondrial disease. Because a variety of metabolic disorders, including mitochondrial disease show regression with fever, a retrospective chart review was performed and identified 28 patients who met diagnostic criteria for autistic spectrum disorders and mitochondrial disease. Autistic regression occurred in 60.7% (17 of 28), a statistically significant increase over the general autistic spectrum disorder population (P < .0001). Of the 17 individuals with autistic regression, 70.6% (12 of 17) regressed with fever and 29.4% (5 of 17) regressed without identifiable linkage to fever or vaccinations. None showed regression with vaccination unless a febrile response was present. Although the study is small, a subgroup of patients with mitochondrial disease may be at risk of autistic regression with fever. Although recommended vaccinations schedules are appropriate in mitochondrial disease, fever management appears important for decreasing regression risk.

In other words, the FEVER caused the regression. Now you can argue that the vaccine caused the fever but of the 17 who regressed in this sample, only 4 had a fever associated with vaccines. Eight - that would be twice as many - had a fever associated with illness. The regressions in the other five couldn't be linked to fever or vaccinations.

So...if we know that fevers can trigger regression in children with this mitochondrial disorder, the goal should be to reduce the possibility of fevers. Which vaccines do. And with a vaccine, the fevers are usually low-grade and an identified susceptible child could be closely monitored with any fever managed aggressively and hydration maintained...dehydration may also trigger regression in susceptible children, you see.

Do vaccines cause autism? No. And Julie Gerberding never once said they did. Stop lying.

It's not "lying"; it's simply basic stupidity.

You're arguing science with people who probably need their shoes off to count past 10.....

 

[tarheelbybirth]

View embedded media

Scary, scary shit, huh?

As for your idiotic video, sell it to the ~450 who died from measles each year from 1956-1960. Or maybe just the nearly 50,000 hospitalized each year. Or the ~4,000 each year who developed encephalitis (that's swelling of the brain). There's a reason mothers in developing nations line up for hours to get their children vaccinated - they've seen what measles can do.