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Downey headed to HWC and IOWA 2nd Semester

MVPFAN said:
That is plenty of time to be a 2 seed.
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Not with Moore being in the B1G. We have tOSU 2nd semester, plus the B1G championship. There are about 10 matches in the 2nd semester (without unattached opens); an 8-2 record won't get him a #2 seed. I don't think even a split with Moore gets him a #2 unless there everyone else from other conferences have 3+ losses.

I think it's moot - Downey's coming into Iowa City with his mind set to wrestle '84. He'll have Martin, Nickal and others at that weight. And again, this is all assuming he does graduate and doesn't screw up something in the next 5 months, which aren't long odds.
 
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Any chance we forfeit 285 in the Fall term & Holloway wrestles 97 all year?
 
Wendy79 said:
The online classes I've taken (and will be taking) have been just as hard as in-person classes. Same work, same requirements.
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I tried taking one once and vowed never to do it again. The work was ridiculous
 
Holy smokes....PD3 is here. I sure hope this works out for everyone.

Those great HR moral compass comments regarding Bael don't carry the same weight anymore...pot meet kettle.
 
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So just some general thoughts/questions...

1. I wish this didn't happen. Regardless of what value he brings, it's a bad look for Iowa. Brands should officially stop banging the "we want guys with character" drum. If you would take someone like PD3, then character obviously doesn't matter. Let's not kid ourselves, if PD3 weren't so talented there is virtually no chance he would be a Hawkeye. The program is sending a very loud message here - "All that matters is winning"

2. In spite of all that, this does make the upcoming season more interesting. If PD3 can keep his nose clean and not embarrass the program for a few months, he gives the Hawks a realistic shot at a team trophy.

3. Why 184? From what I can tell, Iowa's best lineup is to have Wilcke down at his more natural weight of 184 and PD3 up at 197. For those of you who say Downey's better at 184, you're probably right but that shouldn't matter. Brands should be more focused on doing what is best for the team and best for Wilcke. Screw what PD3 wants or what is best for him. By his actions he has lost the right to have anyone cater to what he wants. The fact that he's even getting to wrestle at all is more than he deserves, so if we do let him wrestle it darn well better be at whatever weight is best for the rest of the team.

4. Based on Downey's comments from the Intermat article, it seems he gets to continue tweeting. I am extremely disappointed that one of Brands' stipulations isn't that PD3 has to completely shut down his social media presence. For a guy with a history of posting elicit, pornographic material on social media, this definitely should have been a condition...

5. If PD3 is as good of a student as everyone says he is, how in the heck hasn't he completed a bachelor's degree after, what, like 6 years of college?

6. I'm unfamiliar with how the rules look, but I assume that since he is still technically an ISU student 1st semester, he can't officially practice with the team until winter break starts?

7. Along the same lines as #6, does ISU's 1st semester end before Midlands? If it does, then will PD3 be able to compete for the Hawks at Midlands or will he have to wrestle at Midlands unattached and then officially start competing for the Hawks when school starts back up?

8. Along the same lines as #1, Iowa fans have to come to terms with the fact that they can officially never again criticize a coach for taking on controversial wrestler just for the sake of team points at NCAAs (e.g. Cael and Long), since that is exactly what Brands is doing here. Any bashing of others coaches doing this from this point on is straight hypocrisy...
 
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How many lives does this guy have? Personally, I believe in second chances but he got a second chance when he didn't go to prison for the two assault charges in high school.

After how he flamed out at ISU do the positives outweigh the negatives? I'm not too sure they do with Downey
 
if Downey wrestles unattached 1st semester at Midlands and other opens, can those results be used for seeding purposes at NCAAs? Will those roll over into 'official' results once he is wrestling as part of the team?
 
KTG119 said:
if Downey wrestles unattached 1st semester at Midlands and other opens, can those results be used for seeding purposes at NCAAs? Will those roll over into 'official' results once he is wrestling as part of the team?
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I believe so. When Burak competed unattached for the first part of the year his results counted towards seeding.
 
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saluki211 said:
So just some general thoughts/questions...

1. I wish this didn't happen. Regardless of what value he brings, it's a bad look for Iowa. Brands should officially stop banging the "we want guys with character" drum. If you would take someone like PD3, then character obviously doesn't matter. Let's not kid ourselves, if PD3 weren't so talented there is virtually no chance he would be a Hawkeye. The program is sending a very loud message here - "All that matters is winning"

2. In spite of all that, this does make the upcoming season more interesting. If PD3 can keep his nose clean and not embarrass the program for a few months, he gives the Hawks a realistic shot at a team trophy.

3. Why 184? From what I can tell, Iowa's best lineup is to have Wilcke down at his more natural weight of 184 and PD3 up at 197. For those of you who say Downey's better at 184, you're probably right but that shouldn't matter. Brands should be more focused on doing what is best for the team and best for Wilcke. Screw what PD3 wants or what is best for him. By his actions he has lost the right to have anyone cater to what he wants. The fact that he's even getting to wrestle at all is more than he deserves, so if we do let him wrestle it darn well better be at whatever weight is best for the rest of the team.

4. Based on Downey's comments from the Intermat article, it seems he gets to continue tweeting. I am extremely disappointed that one of Brands' stipulations isn't that PD3 has to completely shut down his social media presence. For a guy with a history of posting elicit, pornographic material on social media, this definitely should have been a condition...

5. If PD3 is as good of a student as everyone says he is, how in the heck hasn't he completed a bachelor's degree after, what, like 6 years of college?

6. I'm unfamiliar with how the rules look, but I assume that since he is still technically an ISU student 1st semester, he can't officially practice with the team until winter break starts?

7. Along the same lines as #6, does ISU's 1st semester end before Midlands? If it does, then will PD3 be able to compete for the Hawks at Midlands or will he have to wrestle at Midlands unattached and then officially start competing for the Hawks when school starts back up?

8. Along the same lines as #1, Iowa fans have to come to terms with the fact that they can officially never again criticize a coach for taking on controversial wrestler just for the sake of team points at NCAAs (e.g. Cael and Long), since that is exactly what Brands is doing here. Any bashing of others coaches doing this from this point on is straight hypocrisy...
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1. Valid point. Lets see how it turns out.
2. Don't discount the option for a title run either. A "what if" lineup was posted in another thread about Lee wrestling if healthy and he wants to go, Happel in at 133 (huge cut, probably not happening), and of course Downey in the mix. Evaluate where tOSU and PSU are at in the second semester injury/weight wise and its not out of TnT mentality to put their best wrestlers out there for a shot.
3. 197 is certainly better for the team. Maybe this has more to do with where he wants to wrestle post-college weight.
4. Okay
5. No idea. Perhaps the "good student" comments are about his GPA in which case he could have been taking light class loads or retaken classes?
6. From IAwrestle.com he will wrestle with the HWC and specifically mentions training partners in Meyer, Brooks, and Burak as well as Mark Perry being a big draw for him.
7. Same article: he'll wrestle unattached and possible even freestyle events. Official team member in January.
8. Once again we'll see. If this turns into a redemption story/ turning point in life for Downey, then Brands reclaims some of the moral high ground you claim he's lost here, no?
 
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saluki211 said:
So just some general thoughts/questions...

1. I wish this didn't happen. Regardless of what value he brings, it's a bad look for Iowa. Brands should officially stop banging the "we want guys with character" drum. If you would take someone like PD3, then character obviously doesn't matter. Let's not kid ourselves, if PD3 weren't so talented there is virtually no chance he would be a Hawkeye. The program is sending a very loud message here - "All that matters is winning"

2. In spite of all that, this does make the upcoming season more interesting. If PD3 can keep his nose clean and not embarrass the program for a few months, he gives the Hawks a realistic shot at a team trophy.

3. Why 184? From what I can tell, Iowa's best lineup is to have Wilcke down at his more natural weight of 184 and PD3 up at 197. For those of you who say Downey's better at 184, you're probably right but that shouldn't matter. Brands should be more focused on doing what is best for the team and best for Wilcke. Screw what PD3 wants or what is best for him. By his actions he has lost the right to have anyone cater to what he wants. The fact that he's even getting to wrestle at all is more than he deserves, so if we do let him wrestle it darn well better be at whatever weight is best for the rest of the team.

4. Based on Downey's comments from the Intermat article, it seems he gets to continue tweeting. I am extremely disappointed that one of Brands' stipulations isn't that PD3 has to completely shut down his social media presence. For a guy with a history of posting elicit, pornographic material on social media, this definitely should have been a condition...

5. If PD3 is as good of a student as everyone says he is, how in the heck hasn't he completed a bachelor's degree after, what, like 6 years of college?

6. I'm unfamiliar with how the rules look, but I assume that since he is still technically an ISU student 1st semester, he can't officially practice with the team until winter break starts?

7. Along the same lines as #6, does ISU's 1st semester end before Midlands? If it does, then will PD3 be able to compete for the Hawks at Midlands or will he have to wrestle at Midlands unattached and then officially start competing for the Hawks when school starts back up?

8. Along the same lines as #1, Iowa fans have to come to terms with the fact that they can officially never again criticize a coach for taking on controversial wrestler just for the sake of team points at NCAAs (e.g. Cael and Long), since that is exactly what Brands is doing here. Any bashing of others coaches doing this from this point on is straight hypocrisy...
Click to expand...
Regarding #5, I started at 1 school, went there for 2.5 years. I took MOSTLY my "major" classes because I hated GenEds and put them off. I then transferred to DMACC for 1 semester, then ISU for another 3.5 years!! (Yes it took me 6.5 years to graduate)

The reason it took so long is because I took the majority of my major classes at my first school. By the time I got to ISU, they said "That's great, but you need to take your major classes here if you want a degree from us". Ugh! Oh well, gave me an extra 2 years to party :)
 
saluki211 said:
So just some general thoughts/questions...


8. Along the same lines as #1, Iowa fans have to come to terms with the fact that they can officially never again criticize a coach for taking on controversial wrestler just for the sake of team points at NCAAs (e.g. Cael and Long), since that is exactly what Brands is doing here. Any bashing of others coaches doing this from this point on is straight hypocrisy...
Click to expand...

I think this is largely wrong, because you ignore outcome.

If this works, it isn't the exact same hypocrisy, because it can mean that Brands made a specific decision in a specific context about a specific person and correctly determined that it would work - for both sides.

Your blanket "never" is ridiculous. This isn't taking on a convicted rapist, or anything close to that level, regardless of your personal opinion about his social media posting. This isn't a blanket - never.

If, however, it fails, and fails the way many people believe it will, then you could be correct regarding hypocrisy.

I see nothing wrong with Tom making a specific determination using his experience, knowledge and instincts. If this were happening multiple times with multiple questionable people and it failing, I would tend to agree. I don't think one specific case does it, especially since this isn't for "chasing championships", and I doubt you think Tom actually believes this puts him over the top on PSU/OSU this year.

Also, and also against the whole all-scenarios-are-equivalent nonsense, Long was with Cael, Cael knew what he had and how he was controlled. You can't say the same here, it is entirely possible that Tom "knows" he can do better than KJ, that he has tools in place to help this guy succeed and be responsible. They aren't directly equivalent.

And I was against this move. Now it doesn't matter, and I can't imagine a better coach to trust, especially regarding his morals/values/instincts.
 
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What's the over under on PD3 getting into a bar fight with an english major before he's eligible to compete?
 
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IAChief32 said:
Heard a different POV on this recently...A lot of us are worried about him being the turd in the punchbowl...bringing the team down. Legit concerns in my eyes. But what if the team actually pulls him up? I dunno...I'm with the state of Missouri on this one--Show me.
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The stay in Ames and prove yourself til 2nd semester was a safer option to insure the college team doesn't get smeared if he screws up before being eligible. But actually being in IC with coaches hands-on increases the odds of him keeping his nose clean.
 
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Can anyone imagine a Bo vs Downey match. That would be kind of a fun one to watch. Actually I hope Pat does go to 184 just to watch that matchup three times
 
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A lot of young men take until well into their mid twenties to "grow up" the guy sounds like he recognizes this as his last opportunity and I think the Brands and the culture of the Hawkeye wrestling room may be exactly what this kid needs....you look at his background and it doesn't seem he's had great examples....I hope this all works out and he turns his life around.....I would never question Tom Brands morality or accuse him of putting winning ahead of doing what is right....I get the sense that the Brands feel like they can be a positive influence in this young mans life....and if can help the team in the process all the better
 
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Welp I guess I will be looking for a new team to root for. I think I will continue that until the Brands and their fake "I care about morals" bs are gone.
 
Lol @ how excited some of you are when you are the same people who enjoyed roasting ISU for "allowing such a punk to be on their team"

Well here you go! Enjoy!
 
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DayHawk18 said:
Welp I guess I will be looking for a new team to root for. I think I will continue that until the Brands and their fake "I care about morals" bs are gone.
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Bye-bye-bye-GIF.gif
 
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I'm more in the Brands are all in on winning... Not saying they're sacrificing their morals either. I think TNT want to win. I also think they can be good for PDIII too and that's the payoff for them.
 
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Wendy79 said:
Things have changed. I assure you biochem amd genetics are the same online or in person.
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I was wondering what blochem was until I put my glasses on and saw the I. (its terrible to get old) I thought it was funny you mentioned genetics considering we havent heard from PD2. Is part of the deal he is banned from this board. Also since you are becoming and expert, how much of PD3,s behavior is learned and how much is programmed?:)
 
CumberlandHawk said:
I was wondering what blochem was until I put my glasses on and saw the I. (its terrible to get old) I thought it was funny you mentioned genetics considering we havent heard from PD2. Is part of the deal he is banned from this board. Also since you are becoming and expert, how much of PD3,s behavior is learned and how much is programmed?:)
Click to expand...

Could you please repeat that last part? I missed it when I went to the kitchen to get and apple. :p

(This one is for you, Val.)
 
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